5087 réponses à ce sujet

[botfly10]

delta_vee wrote...

botfly10 wrote...

It worked on me.  It was a little weird and slighly contrived to walk from character to character but I understood why it needed to happen there based on the mechanics of the game and I was able to forgive that and just soak it up.  

It was a very intense moment.  Especially the one with Liara.  I choked up.

Oh, the conversations themselves were well-done, I'll admit. Garrus was a highlight for me. The structural problem, in my eyes, is that we weren't given any counterpart on the other side of the Crucible's activation. The brief Normandy crash scene was supposed to fill that role, I suppose, but it was rather...cursory...in almost everyone's estimation.

Oh, and btw, how come the trolls and flamers don't come into this thread?

They're intimidated by our textwalls, I suppose.

Right.  I suspect that will be the main focus of the DLC.

[botfly10]

Also, even though I have said I found my peace with the ending, that doesn't mean I wouldn't have also liked a Harry Potter ending - where everyone pairs up and has babies who all get together for the holidays...

That woulda been good too... lol

On some level I think some of the backlash is because that isn't what happened. I think there was a real emotional connection to these characters and it really, sincerely hurt to not have that type of ending.

[delta_vee]

botfly10 wrote...

It was really pretty feel-good until some ass decided he couln't cope with people's enjoyment and end-game-raged all over it.  He busy now telling everyone why what they felt is just plain wrong.

The first rule of civilized criticism is to attack the work, not the person. A lot of people, not just in this forum, forget that.

[Richard 060]

botfly10 wrote...

This is mainly where I differ with the OP's interpretation of the 3 options.

Namely, the synthesis option.

My assumption in the synthesis option was that the different species would largely go on as the separate species they were originally. To me, the organics would just gain some new powers and some mechanical anatomy, while synthetics gain free will, emotion, hope... self actualization.

To me, I thought it was actually elegant how it turns out that your motivation and Saren's motivation are actually parallel. It was also part of my assumption that once actualized, the reapers would value life as organic beings do.

As far as Shep deciding what to do for the whole galaxy... well, to me hard choices was a pervasive theme throughout the series. I did not like being a single individual making the choice. But I was there and had to make the call... a burnden I do not carry lightly.

For me this option was about marrying polar opposites, granting the synthetics free will, and breaking the cycle of destruction.

Bolded this statement (twice - OCD kicking in...), because of an important plot point.

Synthetics already have free will - or at least some do, depending on your choices during the trilogy.

Firstly, EDI's character arc in ME3 is all about her doing the 'Commander Data' bit, and discovering her 'humanity'.

Then there's Legion, who arguably already has free will.

Finally, if you allow Legion to upload the Reaper code to the Geth, they gain free will - Legion even says so using those exact words.


It's the problem I had with Mike Gamble's comment on Twitter, about 'synthesis removing the barriers between organic/synthetic life - instead, there is now just 'life'.' - namely, that it undermines the nature of synthetics as portrayed in the game up until the ending.

It's much the same as the notion that 'synthetics will inevitably lead to the destruction of organics', despite Legion/EDI's stories painting very much the opposite picture. It takes some really great character development and story beats, and throws them in the proverbial wood chipper, in order to make an incongruous, ill-conceived statement about the nature of life at the eleventh hour.


Ultimately, that's my problem with the ending as a whole, though - it undermines so much of the great storytelling that came before, either by contradicting it, or rendering it all rather pointless. That, frankly, is a cardinal sin for any writer to commit, and I'm baffled every time I see an official statement along the lines of 'we stand by the ending, because we think it's really great stuff' - really, BioWare?

[edisnooM]

botfly10 wrote...

edisnooM wrote...

botfly10 wrote...

[Snipped for size]

Oh, and btw, how come the trolls and flamers don't come into this thread?

Shh don't Jinx it. 

There have been a few over the course of the past 60 pages, mostly people ignore them or don't rise to the barbs and they seem to just go away.

Seriously, I just had my thread that was just basically just an expression of pure joy over the ME series go down in a flaming pile of flame.

It was really pretty feel-good until some ass decided he couln't cope with people's enjoyment and end-game-raged all over it.  He busy now telling everyone why what they felt is just plain wrong.

Thats actually why I'm sort of the opinion that Bioware shouldn't change the ending, but add to it if that's possible. There are people that genuinely like the endings as they are, and it's not right for me to say they can't have what they like because I want what I like. I'm hoping that they can find someway to add something for those that don't like the endings while not ruining for those that do.

The metaphor I like to think of is if you go to a restaurant and they have Sprite, Coke, and Root-beer. Some people are happy with these choices and choose Sprite, but maybe some aren't and want Orange soda. If they add that to the menu people that liked Sprite are still happy, and if they decide they would rather have Orange soda instead than they're still happy.

That's my way of looking at it anyway, I doubt it will be that simple. 

[botfly10]

I wanna repeat this just cause I'm still feeling it...

Holy S***.  Just.  Holy.  Wow.  S***.

I have never been so affected by a video game.  The whole series is just.... so... incredible.

The level of immersion and emotional attachment to the characters and universe in this franchise is unreal. 

I have been moved and it was good. 

I SOOO don't want it to be over...

Thessia, Palaven, Rannoch, Tuchanka, Serenity... Saying goodbye to everyone before the final mission...

This series comprises the most emotional involvement and immersion I have EVER experienced in a game. Ever.

At the end of the day...

I just wanted to express what an epic, emotional, and profound journey the ME arc was.

I never experienced anything like this in a game.

Guess I will finish with the sentiment that I love, love, loved the series. I will never forget it.

Modifié par botfly10, 06 mai 2012 - 04:10 .

[Sable Phoenix]

delta_vee wrote...

edisnooM wrote...

botfly10 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

botfly10 wrote...

[Snipped for size] 

[Snipped for size]

Well, in my experience Shep sacrificed himself, so hard to have to many relashionships after that.

True, that is rather final.
I wonder if the Shepard VI survived? [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie] 

I
think that was the purpose of the conversations just before the final
push - to give closure of a sort. It seemed awkward as hell to me at the
time, even before the Infamous Ten Minutes, so I'd debate the efficacy
of it as a narrative device. But it was there.

I dunno, the goodbyes to your squad would've worked if the ending as a whole had worked. I mean, you're all soldiers. You all know how war works. You're all going to be charging headlong into a force that vastly outnumbers you and possesses superior firepower. If you have a quiet moment beforehand, saying goodbye seems like a sensible thing to do, since in all likelihood not all of you will make it out the other side.

I was in tears after saying goodbye to Kaidan, LIara, and especially Garrus.  The utterly stellar vocal performances of Hale, Hillis, Sbarge and Keener had an awful lot to do with that.

If only the finale had lived up to it.

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 06 mai 2012 - 04:16 .

[delta_vee]

edisnooM wrote...

Thats actually why I'm sort of the opinion that Bioware shouldn't change the ending, but add to it if that's possible. There are people that genuinely like the endings as they are, and it's not right for me to say they can't have what they like because I want what I like. I'm hoping that they can find someway to add something for those that don't like the endings while not ruining for those that do.

That's...somewhere between unlikely and impossible.

No choice is made without comparing it to the alternatives. When a new alternative is introduced, it changes the relative weightings. It's the same class of problem that led to them adding synthetics to the casualties of the destroy option - if there's no downside, why would you choose anything else?

Any additional choice would invalidate the experience of choosing for many players, simply because they had already weighed their options and reconciled themselves to it. Adding another would undermine that process.

[botfly10]

Richard 060 wrote...

botfly10 wrote...

This is mainly where I differ with the OP's interpretation of the 3 options.

Namely, the synthesis option.

My assumption in the synthesis option was that the different species would largely go on as the separate species they were originally. To me, the organics would just gain some new powers and some mechanical anatomy, while synthetics gain free will, emotion, hope... self actualization.

To me, I thought it was actually elegant how it turns out that your motivation and Saren's motivation are actually parallel. It was also part of my assumption that once actualized, the reapers would value life as organic beings do.

As far as Shep deciding what to do for the whole galaxy... well, to me hard choices was a pervasive theme throughout the series. I did not like being a single individual making the choice. But I was there and had to make the call... a burnden I do not carry lightly.

For me this option was about marrying polar opposites, granting the synthetics free will, and breaking the cycle of destruction.

Bolded this statement (twice - OCD kicking in...), because of an important plot point.

Synthetics already have free will - or at least some do, depending on your choices during the trilogy.

Firstly, EDI's character arc in ME3 is all about her doing the 'Commander Data' bit, and discovering her 'humanity'.

Then there's Legion, who arguably already has free will.

Finally, if you allow Legion to upload the Reaper code to the Geth, they gain free will - Legion even says so using those exact words.


It's the problem I had with Mike Gamble's comment on Twitter, about 'synthesis removing the barriers between organic/synthetic life - instead, there is now just 'life'.' - namely, that it undermines the nature of synthetics as portrayed in the game up until the ending.

It's much the same as the notion that 'synthetics will inevitably lead to the destruction of organics', despite Legion/EDI's stories painting very much the opposite picture. It takes some really great character development and story beats, and throws them in the proverbial wood chipper, in order to make an incongruous, ill-conceived statement about the nature of life at the eleventh hour.


Ultimately, that's my problem with the ending as a whole, though - it undermines so much of the great storytelling that came before, either by contradicting it, or rendering it all rather pointless. That, frankly, is a cardinal sin for any writer to commit, and I'm baffled every time I see an official statement along the lines of 'we stand by the ending, because we think it's really great stuff' - really, BioWare?

Yeah.  I can see that for sure.

Honestly, I was so euphoric from the the arc of ME3 and everything leading up to the end, I just kinda accepted it.  I had kinda already felt closure before that final sequence.

[botfly10]

edisnooM wrote...

botfly10 wrote...

edisnooM wrote...

botfly10 wrote...

[Snipped for size]

snip

snip

Seriously, I just had my thread that was just basically just an expression of pure joy over the ME series go down in a flaming pile of flame.

It was really pretty feel-good until some ass decided he couln't cope with people's enjoyment and end-game-raged all over it.  He busy now telling everyone why what they felt is just plain wrong.

Thats actually why I'm sort of the opinion that Bioware shouldn't change the ending, but add to it if that's possible. There are people that genuinely like the endings as they are, and it's not right for me to say they can't have what they like because I want what I like. I'm hoping that they can find someway to add something for those that don't like the endings while not ruining for those that do.

The metaphor I like to think of is if you go to a restaurant and they have Sprite, Coke, and Root-beer. Some people are happy with these choices and choose Sprite, but maybe some aren't and want Orange soda. If they add that to the menu people that liked Sprite are still happy, and if they decide they would rather have Orange soda instead than they're still happy.

That's my way of looking at it anyway, I doubt it will be that simple. 

Ima reapeat this here:

Also, even though I have said I found my peace with the ending, that doesn't mean I wouldn't have also liked a Harry Potter ending - where  everyone pairs up and has babies who all get together for the holidays...

That woulda been good too... lol

On some level I think some of the backlash is because that isn't what happened.  I think there was a real emotional connection to these characters and  it really, sincerely hurt to not have that type of ending.

Modifié par botfly10, 06 mai 2012 - 04:21 .

[Sable Phoenix]

I don't think we're expecting everyone to pair up and have babies.

We just expect them to do something.

We don't get to see them do anything at all, and that is where the problem comes. That, in addition to the narrative and thematic problems that have already been outlined earlier in the thread.  Really, that is what this thread's about... not speculation on what should have happened during/after the climax, per se, but rather, the narrative threads that wind their way through the trilogy and how they were, or were not, destroyed or supported during that infamous ten minutes at the end of it all.

Modifié par Sable Phoenix, 06 mai 2012 - 04:26 .

[botfly10]

Richard 060 wrote...

botfly10 wrote...

chop

Bolded this statement (twice - OCD kicking in...), because of an important plot point.

Synthetics already have free will - or at least some do, depending on your choices during the trilogy.

Firstly, EDI's character arc in ME3 is all about her doing the 'Commander Data' bit, and discovering her 'humanity'.

Then there's Legion, who arguably already has free will.

Finally, if you allow Legion to upload the Reaper code to the Geth, they gain free will - Legion even says so using those exact words.


It's the problem I had with Mike Gamble's comment on Twitter, about 'synthesis removing the barriers between organic/synthetic life - instead, there is now just 'life'.' - namely, that it undermines the nature of synthetics as portrayed in the game up until the ending.

It's much the same as the notion that 'synthetics will inevitably lead to the destruction of organics', despite Legion/EDI's stories painting very much the opposite picture. It takes some really great character development and story beats, and throws them in the proverbial wood chipper, in order to make an incongruous, ill-conceived statement about the nature of life at the eleventh hour.


Ultimately, that's my problem with the ending as a whole, though - it undermines so much of the great storytelling that came before, either by contradicting it, or rendering it all rather pointless. That, frankly, is a cardinal sin for any writer to commit, and I'm baffled every time I see an official statement along the lines of 'we stand by the ending, because we think it's really great stuff' - really, BioWare?

Yeah, I imagined all the synthetics that didn't have free-will obtaining it.  That and sexual reproduction.  WOOT!  You've welcome Joker!  *high fives*

I guess my imagination kinda just went nuts and made everything OK for me.  And I just let it be kinda of shallow...

There was enough momentum to carry me through, I suppose.

[edisnooM]

delta_vee wrote...

edisnooM wrote...

Thats actually why I'm sort of the opinion that Bioware shouldn't change the ending, but add to it if that's possible. There are people that genuinely like the endings as they are, and it's not right for me to say they can't have what they like because I want what I like. I'm hoping that they can find someway to add something for those that don't like the endings while not ruining for those that do.

That's...somewhere between unlikely and impossible.

No choice is made without comparing it to the alternatives. When a new alternative is introduced, it changes the relative weightings. It's the same class of problem that led to them adding synthetics to the casualties of the destroy option - if there's no downside, why would you choose anything else?

Any additional choice would invalidate the experience of choosing for many players, simply because they had already weighed their options and reconciled themselves to it. Adding another would undermine that process.

True. I guess I'm too much of an optimist.

Ugh the more I think about all this the more depressed I get. I just really don't know what "clarifying" is going to accomplish.

[botfly10]

Sable Phoenix wrote...

I don't think we're expecting everyone to pair up and have babies.

We just expect them to do something.

We don't get to see them do anything at all, and that is where the problem comes. That, in addition to the narrative and thematic problems that have already been outlined earlier in the thread.  Really, that is what this thread's about... not speculation on what should have happened during/after the climax, per se, but rather, the narrative threads that wind their way through the trilogy and how they were, or were not, destroyed or supported during that infamous ten minutes at the end of it all.

Yeah.  I get it.

I was projecting and exagerrating a little.  But really, woulda been down with that... lol.

[edisnooM]

botfly10 wrote...

Richard 060 wrote...

botfly10 wrote...

chop

Bolded this statement (twice - OCD kicking in...), because of an important plot point.

Synthetics already have free will - or at least some do, depending on your choices during the trilogy.

Firstly, EDI's character arc in ME3 is all about her doing the 'Commander Data' bit, and discovering her 'humanity'.

Then there's Legion, who arguably already has free will.

Finally, if you allow Legion to upload the Reaper code to the Geth, they gain free will - Legion even says so using those exact words.


It's the problem I had with Mike Gamble's comment on Twitter, about 'synthesis removing the barriers between organic/synthetic life - instead, there is now just 'life'.' - namely, that it undermines the nature of synthetics as portrayed in the game up until the ending.

It's much the same as the notion that 'synthetics will inevitably lead to the destruction of organics', despite Legion/EDI's stories painting very much the opposite picture. It takes some really great character development and story beats, and throws them in the proverbial wood chipper, in order to make an incongruous, ill-conceived statement about the nature of life at the eleventh hour.


Ultimately, that's my problem with the ending as a whole, though - it undermines so much of the great storytelling that came before, either by contradicting it, or rendering it all rather pointless. That, frankly, is a cardinal sin for any writer to commit, and I'm baffled every time I see an official statement along the lines of 'we stand by the ending, because we think it's really great stuff' - really, BioWare?

Yeah, I imagined all the synthetics that didn't have free-will obtaining it.  That and sexual reproduction.  WOOT!  You've welcome Joker!  *high fives*

I guess my imagination kinda just went nuts and made everything OK for me.  And I just let it be kinda of shallow...

There was enough momentum to carry me through, I suppose.

Wait do the Geth have any sort of concept of Gender? I mean how does that work? And someones going to have to sit down and give them all "The Talk".

"Um, you see Prime Unit X302T4, when one platform loves another platform..."

I have a feeling this could lead to a lot of Rule 34s.

[MrFob]

botfly10 wrote...

delta_vee wrote...

botfly10 wrote...

It worked on me.  It was a little weird and slighly contrived to walk from character to character but I understood why it needed to happen there based on the mechanics of the game and I was able to forgive that and just soak it up.  

It was a very intense moment.  Especially the one with Liara.  I choked up.

Oh, the conversations themselves were well-done, I'll admit. Garrus was a highlight for me. The structural problem, in my eyes, is that we weren't given any counterpart on the other side of the Crucible's activation. The brief Normandy crash scene was supposed to fill that role, I suppose, but it was rather...cursory...in almost everyone's estimation.

Oh, and btw, how come the trolls and flamers don't come into this thread?

They're intimidated by our textwalls, I suppose.

Right.  I suspect that will be the main focus of the DLC.

It's hard to keep up with this thread so I hope I don't repeat a poin t that has already been made but I want to add something to this one.

I agree with you guys that a counter point after the conclusion of the plot is needed. This cannot be the closure for the characters (as was probably intended by the writers) because their Journy is not complete. The Normandy crash scene is not enough because it doesn't close their story at all but rather puts them in front of the next (and rather pointless) challenge. So even ignoring the enormous plot holes that lead to the situation it doesn't work very well as a final scene for the story. So yes, EC hopefully remedies that situation.

However, back to the London FOB part: I really did like the conversation with the squad mates that were there. This was very well done and all the conversations have their own little magic moments. Great!
What I did not like at all was the part where Shepard contacts all the other through the hologram-comm unit It is extremely forced and since I don't even get to choose what I say to them, the whole conversation is even more pointless. IMO it would have been much better to show them in action somehow. Maybe break the last push with Hammer sometimes with a short in game cut scene of Jack and her students ripping reapers apart with biotics or Grunt blasting some rachni with his shotgun, yelling "for Shepard!" (little nod to LotR here ), Kasumi pulling off some insane acrobatics or Jacob and Brynn saying good bye before Jacob charges into the fight.
The way these conversation play out right now feels like my old friends roll by on a conveyor belt and I get to say the generic good bye to everyone in turn, It's very mechanised and thus lacks in impact.

Just my two cents on that one. In general it was well done but could have been better.

[botfly10]

edisnooM wrote...

botfly10 wrote...

Richard 060 wrote...

botfly10 wrote...

chop

Bolded this statement (twice - OCD kicking in...), because of an important plot point.

Synthetics already have free will - or at least some do, depending on your choices during the trilogy.

Firstly, EDI's character arc in ME3 is all about her doing the 'Commander Data' bit, and discovering her 'humanity'.

Then there's Legion, who arguably already has free will.

Finally, if you allow Legion to upload the Reaper code to the Geth, they gain free will - Legion even says so using those exact words.


It's the problem I had with Mike Gamble's comment on Twitter, about 'synthesis removing the barriers between organic/synthetic life - instead, there is now just 'life'.' - namely, that it undermines the nature of synthetics as portrayed in the game up until the ending.

It's much the same as the notion that 'synthetics will inevitably lead to the destruction of organics', despite Legion/EDI's stories painting very much the opposite picture. It takes some really great character development and story beats, and throws them in the proverbial wood chipper, in order to make an incongruous, ill-conceived statement about the nature of life at the eleventh hour.


Ultimately, that's my problem with the ending as a whole, though - it undermines so much of the great storytelling that came before, either by contradicting it, or rendering it all rather pointless. That, frankly, is a cardinal sin for any writer to commit, and I'm baffled every time I see an official statement along the lines of 'we stand by the ending, because we think it's really great stuff' - really, BioWare?

Yeah, I imagined all the synthetics that didn't have free-will obtaining it.  That and sexual reproduction.  WOOT!  You've welcome Joker!  *high fives*

I guess my imagination kinda just went nuts and made everything OK for me.  And I just let it be kinda of shallow...

There was enough momentum to carry me through, I suppose.

Wait do the Geth have any sort of concept of Gender? I mean how does that work? And someones going to have to sit down and give them all "The Talk".

"Um, you see Prime Unit X302T4, when one platform loves another platform..."

I have a feeling this could lead to a lot of Rule 34s.

Emphasis on SHALLOW!

Stop trying to fek this reality I have built all to hell!  Dammit!




Seriously though, the whole series isnt't the tightest of tight plotlines....  I get the meta issues with the ending.  But you go down the lore-road and it never ends.

[botfly10]

MrFob wrote...

botfly10 wrote...

delta_vee wrote...

botfly10 wrote...

It
worked on me.  It was a little weird and slighly contrived to walk from
character to character but I understood why it needed to happen there
based on the mechanics of the game and I was able to forgive that and
just soak it up.  

It was a very intense moment.  Especially the one with Liara.  I choked up.

Oh, the conversations themselves
were well-done, I'll admit. Garrus was a highlight for me. The
structural problem, in my eyes, is that we weren't given any counterpart
on the other side of the Crucible's activation. The brief Normandy
crash scene was supposed to fill that role, I suppose, but it was
rather...cursory...in almost everyone's estimation.

Oh, and btw, how come the trolls and flamers don't come into this thread?

They're intimidated by our textwalls, I suppose.

Right.  I suspect that will be the main focus of the DLC.

It's
hard to keep up with this thread so I hope I don't repeat a poin t that
has already been made but I want to add something to this one.

I
agree with you guys that a counter point after the conclusion of the
plot is needed. This cannot be the closure for the characters (as was
probably intended by the writers) because their Journy is not complete.
The Normandy crash scene is not enough because it doesn't close their
story at all but rather puts them in front of the next (and rather
pointless) challenge. So even ignoring the enormous plot holes that lead
to the situation it doesn't work very well as a final scene for the
story. So yes, EC hopefully remedies that situation.

However,
back to the London FOB part: I really did like the conversation with the
squad mates that were there. This was very well done and all the
conversations have their own little magic moments. Great!
What I did
not like at all was the part where Shepard contacts all the other
through the hologram-comm unit It is extremely forced and since I don't
even get to choose what I say to them, the whole conversation is even
more pointless. IMO it would have been much better to show them in
action somehow. Maybe break the last push with Hammer sometimes with a
short in game cut scene of Jack and her students ripping reapers apart
with biotics or Grunt blasting some rachni with his shotgun, yelling
"for Shepard!" (little nod to LotR here ), Kasumi pulling off some
insane acrobatics or Jacob and Brynn saying good bye before Jacob
charges into the fight.
The way these conversation play out right now
feels like my old friends roll by on a conveyor belt and I get to say
the generic good bye to everyone in turn, It's very mechanised and thus
lacks in impact.

Just my two cents on that one. In general it was well done but could have been better.

Ok.  Thats brilliant.

I have to get the fek outta here before you guys tear apart my veil of innocence.

Modifié par botfly10, 06 mai 2012 - 04:43 .

[edisnooM]

botfly10 wrote...

Emphasis on SHALLOW!

Stop trying to fek this reality I have built all to hell!  Dammit!


Seriously though, the whole series isnt't the tightest of tight plotlines....  I get the meta issues with the ending.  But you go down the lore-road and it never ends.

Haha, sorry not trying to ruin your head-canon, but you're the one that brought up synthetic reproduction. 

[botfly10]

edisnooM wrote...

botfly10 wrote...

Emphasis on SHALLOW!

Stop trying to fek this reality I have built all to hell!  Dammit!


Seriously though, the whole series isnt't the tightest of tight plotlines....  I get the meta issues with the ending.  But you go down the lore-road and it never ends.

Haha, sorry not trying to ruin your head-canon, but you're the one that brought up synthetic reproduction. 

Maybe they are hermaphrodites?

Modifié par botfly10, 06 mai 2012 - 04:46 .

[edisnooM]

botfly10 wrote...

edisnooM wrote...

botfly10 wrote...

Emphasis on SHALLOW!

Stop trying to fek this reality I have built all to hell!  Dammit!


Seriously though, the whole series isnt't the tightest of tight plotlines....  I get the meta issues with the ending.  But you go down the lore-road and it never ends.

Haha, sorry not trying to ruin your head-canon, but you're the one that brought up synthetic reproduction. 

Maybe they are hermaphrodites?

That's gonna cause even more Rule 34s.

[botfly10]

Anyway, thanks guys for the opportunity to discuss and process and just plain exalt.

This thing was an epic emotional ride for me.

[uwyz]

Richard 060 wrote...

It's the problem I had with Mike Gamble's comment on Twitter, about 'synthesis removing the barriers between organic/synthetic life - instead, there is now just 'life'.' - namely, that it undermines the nature of synthetics as portrayed in the game up until the ending.

Another take on the synthesis solution is that it implies that conflict can only be eliminated by removing diversity. I believe that cultural diversity is a cherished theme of the ME series. In the ME universe cultures clash, and there are members of all species who exhibit prejudice and intolerance against the others. But in Shepard's journey, aboard his ship, his multi-cultural crew were able to overcome theses barriers through bonds of friendship, by understanding each other and working together, by individual acts of love, trust, compassion and sometimes sacrifice. Surrounded by aliens, we realize that we are more similar than we are different.

But synthesis seem to suggest that all these qualities do not matter, that they cannot keep intolerance and bigotry in check, and that despite the best virtues civilized life can offer, it is insufficient to prevent conflict arising out of differences. To truly prevent intolerance and bigotry, you have to resort to 'magic' that physically removes these differences. This diminishes the moral value of the 'virtues' I just mentioned, and it undermines the sacrifices various ME characters made. - "We tried our best to be good, but the best is not good enough. Only the gods can save us from ourselves".

Of course, if you were take the 'technical singularity' interpretation of synthesis, then the moral reasoning above doesn't apply. But technical singularity is a concept not well foreshadowed in the ME story. Only Javik mentions it - and he is a DLC character. Sovereign, Saren and Legion hinted at it, but their clues are too easy to miss.

[drayfish]

botfly10 wrote...
This series comprises the most emotional involvement and immersion I have EVER experienced in a game. Ever.

At the end of the day...

I just wanted to express what an epic, emotional, and profound journey the ME arc was.

I never experienced anything like this in a game.

Guess I will finish with the sentiment that I love, love, loved the series. I will never forget it.

@ botfly10:
 
That is beautiful to hear. I couldn't agree more.
 

delta_vee wrote...
 
@drayfish:
Seconded. Pass the yams, please?
 
@bc525:

Mind if I join you guys for beers? I'll buy the first round.

@ delta_vee:
 
I hope you realise that thanks to you I am legitimately starting to imagine this discussion as a party: dips on the table, stereo humming in the background, bathtub filled with ice and drinks. Or perhaps less of a party and more of a wake, but a wake in the true sense of the word. A great wake, what a wake is meant to be. There are things to lament, sure, but that's only because there is so much to celebrate.
 
Our Shepards might be gone, but they are not forgotten, their journeys bonding them to us with all their intensity and promise. We've all seen something end, for better or worse, and by joining together and talking through our experiences we can find a richer, more comprehensive picture of this thing that we've all dearly loved. We've all had intimate relationships with this universe (that's why I unquestionably call it Art), and through it we have the capacity to better understand ourselves. As Rustedness said, this thread is cathartic. 
 
Okay, that's enough of my nonsense. I'm going back to lurking by the salsa, hoping no one notices that despite only bringing a six-pack of domestic cans, I'm drinking everyone else's more expensive imported beers. Swaying to the music, charmed, enthralled and re-invigorated through the grief by all the friendly buzz.

Modifié par drayfish, 06 mai 2012 - 05:07 .

[botfly10]

uwyz wrote...

Richard 060 wrote...

It's the problem I had with Mike Gamble's comment on Twitter, about 'synthesis removing the barriers between organic/synthetic life - instead, there is now just 'life'.' - namely, that it undermines the nature of synthetics as portrayed in the game up until the ending.

Another take on the synthesis solution is that it implies that conflict can only be eliminated by removing diversity. I believe that cultural diversity is a cherished theme of the ME series. In the ME universe cultures clash, and there are members of all species who exhibit prejudice and intolerance against the others. But in Shepard's journey, aboard his ship, his multi-cultural crew were able to overcome theses barriers through bonds of friendship, by understanding each other and working together, by individual acts of love, trust, compassion and sometimes sacrifice. Surrounded by aliens, we realize that we are more similar than we are different.

But synthesis seem to suggest that all these qualities do not matter, that they cannot keep intolerance and bigotry in check, and that despite the best virtues civilized life can offer, it is insufficient to prevent conflict arising out of differences. To truly prevent intolerance and bigotry, you have to resort to 'magic' that physically removes these differences. This diminishes the moral value of the 'virtues' I just mentioned, and it undermines the sacrifices various ME characters made. - "We tried our best to be good, but the best is not good enough. Only the gods can save us from ourselves".

Of course, if you were take the 'technical singularity' interpretation of synthesis, then the moral reasoning above doesn't apply. But technical singularity is a concept not well foreshadowed in the ME story. Only Javik mentions it - and he is a DLC character. Sovereign, Saren and Legion hinted at it, but their clues are too easy to miss.

I didn't see it as all beings becoming homogenized, but rather all organics and sythetics swapping some key characteristics without changing species.  Much like on earth, all organisms share many of the same characteristics and anatomy without losing biodiversity... 

Every species on earth has reproductive organs, a respiratory system, digestive system, nervous system... etc.