5087 réponses à ce sujet

[3DandBeyond]

Well, I knew there was another thing that made me think Synthesis is abhorrent. The star kid's words about it are almost exactly what Sovereign says about the Reapers. He states that they are the end of evolution. But he also says that organic life is a mutation, an accident. So, whatever being is controlling reaper strings must think this as well and sees Synthesis is a way to correct that. It just makes it all the worse in my mind, that this seems to be what he wants you to choose.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Grotaiche wrote...

drayfish wrote...

<snip>
aside from apparently being the only human child in the universe

Sorry for the snip but I want to add that not only is he the only human child in the universe but also the only child we see in the entire Mass Effect series. Except for the biotic students (who are teenagers anyway), I don't recall meeting any child in the entire Mass Effect series. Or maybe I missed something ?
Sorry for the digression, but I have just realized that and it feels... weird.

The only other child we ever actually see is in the seemingly-now-non-cannon Take Back Earth trailer.

This is significant for me because I do care about that child. She's shown as happy and aspirational, running through a field with her own spaceship, perhaps dreaming of being an officer in the alliance military, or even a Spectre like commander Shepard. And when Shepard found that charred sunflower field, it made me cry.

The child in the game did nothing. I didn't care at all, and found his presence in the dream unmoving.

(P.S. Been breaking out of my Post ME3 listlessness by reading books and throwing myself into work, so don't have as much time to post lately. But I'm still reading and enjoying.)

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 07 mai 2012 - 05:50 .

[Hawk227]

delta_vee wrote...

  I'm still minorly peeved he was introduced so late in the game (given the cut dialogue found, he was originally accessible much earlier - he has voice files for the Migrant Fleet, for example). In that vein I was...disappointed...when they hewed back towards sci-fi tradition on Rannoch.

I don't know the finer details of what was cut and when he was originally going to be available, but if you don't mind sacrificing the crew, you can bring him on a number of missions, including Tali's loyalty mission. The only missions you can't take him on are whatever is necessary to unlock the IFF mission (6ish recruitment and 3 loyalty missions?). I've taken him on Tali's loyalty mission a number of times (w/o losing the crew), it's both insightful and amusing to bring him along. Apparently if you wait until then to see the council he has some pretty good dialogue in response to the "Sovereign is a Geth creation" claim.

[DocJill]

I sense a childless universe conspiracy.  When you look closely at the Stargazer scene, you can tell that the "child" is not really a child at all, but a scaled down copy of the adult.  *cues twilight zone music*  I would post a screenshot but I've yet to figure out how to post images in these forums...

Modifié par DocJill, 07 mai 2012 - 05:40 .

[delta_vee]

Hawk227 wrote...

I don't know the finer details of what was cut and when he was originally going to be available, but if you don't mind sacrificing the crew, you can bring him on a number of missions, including Tali's loyalty mission. The only missions you can't take him on are whatever is necessary to unlock the IFF mission (6ish recruitment and 3 loyalty missions?). I've taken him on Tali's loyalty mission a number of times (w/o losing the crew), it's both insightful and amusing to bring him along. Apparently if you wait until then to see the council he has some pretty good dialogue in response to the "Sovereign is a Geth creation" claim.

It's been a little while, so I don't remember the exact sequence either. I thought you only had room for one mission between abduction and crew loss, so I always did all the loyalty missions I could before the Reaper IFF, that way I had time to do Legion's loyalty before heading through the O4 relay.

[Hawk227]

delta_vee wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

I don't know the finer details of what was cut and when he was originally going to be available, but if you don't mind sacrificing the crew, you can bring him on a number of missions, including Tali's loyalty mission. The only missions you can't take him on are whatever is necessary to unlock the IFF mission (6ish recruitment and 3 loyalty missions?). I've taken him on Tali's loyalty mission a number of times (w/o losing the crew), it's both insightful and amusing to bring him along. Apparently if you wait until then to see the council he has some pretty good dialogue in response to the "Sovereign is a Geth creation" claim.

It's been a little while, so I don't remember the exact sequence either. I thought you only had room for one mission between abduction and crew loss, so I always did all the loyalty missions I could before the Reaper IFF, that way I had time to do Legion's loyalty before heading through the O4 relay.

You get two after acquiring the IFF before the collectors hit the Normandy and one after the collectors hit before the crew are liquefied. I usually save either Tali's loyalty (for Legion) or Jack's loyalty (so I have enough persuasion to make peace with Miranda) for after the IFF to go with legion's loyalty mission. I'm just not entirely sure what it takes to trigger the collector ship (and subsequently the dead Reaper) before you can possibly acquire Legion.

It's possible to acquire him with a number of missions left if you're willing to sacrifice the crew.

[Hawk227]

DocJill wrote...




I sense a childless universe conspiracy.  When you look closely at the Stargazer scene, you can tell that the "child" is not really a child at all, but a scaled down copy of the adult.  *cues twilight zone music*  I would post a screenshot but I've yet to figure out how to post images in these forums...

This is my first try at actually posting a photo. Let's see if it works.



EDIT: Success! You just bracket the image url (www.image.jpg) in ..... [img  ....  /img] like to quote someone.

Modifié par Hawk227, 07 mai 2012 - 05:54 .

[JadedWater]

your right...That is kind of freaky...I can actually hear the twilight zone music

[Grotaiche]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

The only other child we ever actually see is in the seemingly-now-non-cannon Take Back Earth trailer.

This is significant for me because I do care about that child. She's shown as happy and aspirational, running through a field with her own spaceship, perhaps dreaming of being an officer in the alliance military, or even a Spectre like commander Shepard. And when Shepard found that charred sunflower field, it made me cry.

The child in the game did nothing. I didn't care at all, and found his presence in the dream unmoving.

(P.S. Been breaking out of my Post ME3 listlessness by reading books and throwing myself into work, so don't have as much time to post lately. But I'm still reading and enjoying.)

Great video, thanks for the link. I had watched it when it was published but for some reason, I thought it was the same kid as in the game ; I'm glad to see it's not. But in the game itself, there is no other kid.
I mean, it wouldn't hurt to see a few of them at the Citadel, would it ? Probably not in Purgatory Bar, but in the Docking/Refugees area or in the Presidium Commons. But no, no child anywhere.

[edisnooM]

Grotaiche wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

The only other child we ever actually see is in the seemingly-now-non-cannon Take Back Earth trailer.

This is significant for me because I do care about that child. She's shown as happy and aspirational, running through a field with her own spaceship, perhaps dreaming of being an officer in the alliance military, or even a Spectre like commander Shepard. And when Shepard found that charred sunflower field, it made me cry.

The child in the game did nothing. I didn't care at all, and found his presence in the dream unmoving.

(P.S. Been breaking out of my Post ME3 listlessness by reading books and throwing myself into work, so don't have as much time to post lately. But I'm still reading and enjoying.)

Great video, thanks for the link. I had watched it when it was published but for some reason, I thought it was the same kid as in the game ; I'm glad to see it's not. But in the game itself, there is no other kid.
I mean, it wouldn't hurt to see a few of them at the Citadel, would it ? Probably not in Purgatory Bar, but in the Docking/Refugees area or in the Presidium Commons. But no, no child anywhere.

I think there may be pictures on the memorial wall of some children, other than that no.

[KitaSaturnyne]

drayfish wrote...

I must say, if indeed the dreams are not enactments of some kind of invasive Indoctrination Process, I too was surprised that they went with the child as manifestation of Shepard's grief and lament. Like MrFob, I would have assumed that if they were trying to indicate survivor guilt, or the steady psychological pressure of all these losses and concessions to the enemy, it would have had more resonance to represent this with either Ashley or Kaiden, the first major soldier and friend you lost on Virmire; therefore the first real major casualty under your command.  (I am, of course, conveniently forgetting the red-shirt we lose on Eden Prime before meeting Ash in ME1 – honestly, what was that guy's name even?). At least then there would have been some genuine sense of owning the guilt – and since both remain fundamentally human, they would have still had the same symbolic presence for new players to the franchise who wouldn't  have the shared history, but can still feel the bipedal empathy I presume the text was going for.

To all those who commented on my little contribution there, thank you. Drayfish, I agree with this totally. I can actually picture the dreams becoming a lot more emotional for both Shepard and the player just by replacing the child with the so-called "Virmire Victim".

"Why did you kill me?"

"Ash, I-..."

"It wasn't enough that I had to die for your stupid cause? Now you have to drag the rest of the galaxy down with you?!"

"I... I don't-..."

"YOU'RE KILLING US ALL, COMMANDER!"

Boom. Awake in a cold sweat.

[Devil Mingy]

Hawk227 wrote...

delta_vee wrote...

  I'm still minorly peeved he was introduced so late in the game (given the cut dialogue found, he was originally accessible much earlier - he has voice files for the Migrant Fleet, for example). In that vein I was...disappointed...when they hewed back towards sci-fi tradition on Rannoch.

I don't know the finer details of what was cut and when he was originally going to be available, but if you don't mind sacrificing the crew, you can bring him on a number of missions, including Tali's loyalty mission. The only missions you can't take him on are whatever is necessary to unlock the IFF mission (6ish recruitment and 3 loyalty missions?). I've taken him on Tali's loyalty mission a number of times (w/o losing the crew), it's both insightful and amusing to bring him along. Apparently if you wait until then to see the council he has some pretty good dialogue in response to the "Sovereign is a Geth creation" claim.

If you're comfortable with a bit of modding, the gibbed sace editor is great for it. You can get Legion right after Freedom's Progress (great since he has one of the best lines in the game at the end of Jack's recruitment mission). It's even more worthwhile taking Legion on Tali's recruitment mission. 

Modifié par Devil Mingy, 07 mai 2012 - 06:45 .

[delta_vee]

KitaSaturnyne wrote...

To all those who commented on my little contribution there, thank you. Drayfish, I agree with this totally. I can actually picture the dreams becoming a lot more emotional for both Shepard and the player just by replacing the child with the so-called "Virmire Victim".

"Why did you kill me?"

"Ash, I-..."

"It wasn't enough that I had to die for your stupid cause? Now you have to drag the rest of the galaxy down with you?!"

"I... I don't-..."

"YOU'RE KILLING US ALL, COMMANDER!"

Boom. Awake in a cold sweat.

That does sound better, frankly.

I think they missed a golden opportunity, though, to go all in. Put Shepard back on Virmire, back on Noveria, back in the Suicide Mission, and in the spirit of metatextual confusion which spawned IT, make all the options bad. Give us a dialogue wheel where all three options are the one we didn't take.

[delta_vee]

Devil Mingy wrote...

If you're comfortable with a bit of modding, the gibbed sace editor is great for it. You can get Legion right after Freedom's Progress (great since he has one of the best lines in the game at the end of Jack's recruitment mission). It's even more worthwhile taking Legion on Tali's recruitment mission.

Damn. That was exactly what I was talking about. Sadly, I've got the series on 360.

I never did hear an explanation of why Legion was unlocked so late. I know they were originally planning on making all the recruitment missions available from the beginning, instead of splitting them up into halves, but as far as I'm aware Legion wasn't tied to the Reaper IFF until late in development. Anyone know for sure?

[CulturalGeekGirl]

delta_vee wrote...

Devil Mingy wrote...

If you're comfortable with a bit of modding, the gibbed sace editor is great for it. You can get Legion right after Freedom's Progress (great since he has one of the best lines in the game at the end of Jack's recruitment mission). It's even more worthwhile taking Legion on Tali's recruitment mission.

Damn. That was exactly what I was talking about. Sadly, I've got the series on 360.

I never did hear an explanation of why Legion was unlocked so late. I know they were originally planning on making all the recruitment missions available from the beginning, instead of splitting them up into halves, but as far as I'm aware Legion wasn't tied to the Reaper IFF until late in development. Anyone know for sure?

As a console player, it's YOUR FAULT.

Joking aside, they said the change was made due to the disc-space and disc-switching requirements of consoles.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 07 mai 2012 - 06:57 .

[delta_vee]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

As a console player, it's YOUR FAULT.

Joking aside, they said the change was made due to the disc-space and disc-switching requirements of consoles.

Figured as much, but nice to have confirmation.

And hey, I didn't feel like waiting for the ME1 PC port. And once it was done I was reluctant to switch and lose my Shepards...

[KitaSaturnyne]

delta_vee wrote...

Figured as much, but nice to have confirmation.

And hey, I didn't feel like waiting for the ME1 PC port. And once it was done I was reluctant to switch and lose my Shepards...

Totally worth it in my opinion. Everyone knows the PC version is the novel and the console version is the movie. It's just always better.

[edisnooM]

delta_vee wrote...

Devil Mingy wrote...

If you're comfortable with a bit of modding, the gibbed sace editor is great for it. You can get Legion right after Freedom's Progress (great since he has one of the best lines in the game at the end of Jack's recruitment mission). It's even more worthwhile taking Legion on Tali's recruitment mission.

Damn. That was exactly what I was talking about. Sadly, I've got the series on 360.

I never did hear an explanation of why Legion was unlocked so late. I know they were originally planning on making all the recruitment missions available from the beginning, instead of splitting them up into halves, but as far as I'm aware Legion wasn't tied to the Reaper IFF until late in development. Anyone know for sure?

Actually you can move your save game to a USB flash drive, then open it with Modio on the computer to access the Xbox Save file which can be extracted and modified with Gibbed.

Here is a more detailed guide on how to do this: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/103/index/2277020

Always remember to make a backup of the save file in case something goes horribly wrong. 

Modifié par edisnooM, 07 mai 2012 - 07:11 .

[delta_vee]

 

KitaSaturnyne wrote...
Totally worth it in my opinion. Everyone knows the PC version is the novel and the console version is the movie. It's just always better.

Normally, I'd agree. Didn't have a decent gaming rig at the time.

Plus, my roommate's father voiced an Elcor in ME1, which is part of the reason I was so excited for the series in the first place. Easier to share a console than a computer, we already had it, and so there was a certain...impetus to get the game ASAP.

edisnooM wrote...
Actually you can move your save game to a USB flash drive, then open it with Modio on the computer to access the Xbox Save file which can be extracted and modified with Gibbed.
Here is a more detailed guide on how to do this: social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/103/index/2277020
Always remember to make a backup of the save file in case something goes horribly wrong.

I might try that if and when I ever get around to another ME2 playthrough. Thanks.

Modifié par delta_vee, 07 mai 2012 - 07:53 .

[KitaSaturnyne]

A thought I had.

What's the purpose of the Catalyst taking the shape of the child? As far as the character of the Catalyst, I could see it as an attempt to manipulate Shepard in a "you wouldn't hit a man with glasses, would you" sort of way, but that's really it. Its choosing of this shape doesn't seem to be related to the dreams, other than pulling imagery from such a strong subconscious experience, though that in itself only serves to highlight the manipulative nature of the Catalyst.

In terms of the narrative, the Catalyst choosing this shape is a mystery to me.

I also want to say, once again, the the Catalyst isn't a very good catalyst at all.

[edisnooM]

Nyoka wrote...

Ashley or Kaidan wouldn't work as dream material because players new to ME don't know who they are.

That's actually a fair point. Which would explain why they went with an entirely new character to use as an emotional hook.

Also in retrospect the childs line on Earth about how "You can't save me." was a bit blunt. We could have saved him if he hadn't been so stupid and run away. But this was presumably to set up the dreams.

What might have been interesting would be to let us try and save him in a player controlled manner. That way if we tried to save him and failed it could have had more impact. However that raises more issues with how not all Shepards would care about one child.

[KitaSaturnyne]

Nyoka wrote...

Ashley or Kaidan wouldn't work as dream material because players new to ME don't know who they are.

Yes, but the characters of Ashley and Kaiden, and their emotional importance to Shepard, is explored over the course of the game. The young boy isn't expounded upon at all.

[edisnooM]

KitaSaturnyne wrote...

A thought I had.

What's the purpose of the Catalyst taking the shape of the child? As far as the character of the Catalyst, I could see it as an attempt to manipulate Shepard in a "you wouldn't hit a man with glasses, would you" sort of way, but that's really it. Its choosing of this shape doesn't seem to be related to the dreams, other than pulling imagery from such a strong subconscious experience, though that in itself only serves to highlight the manipulative nature of the Catalyst.

In terms of the narrative, the Catalyst choosing this shape is a mystery to me.

I also want to say, once again, the the Catalyst isn't a very good catalyst at all.

Actually thats one of things a lot of IT supporters mention, that it took the shape of an image from Shepards mind. Regardless of IT I thought it odd this was just ignored in dialogue, not even a Contact "I took this form to be familiar" or anything. It could have been a narrative attempt to bring the story full circle, the child from the beginning is now at the end. But it does seem rather manipulative.

It could perhaps been an attempt to elicit empathy and get Shepard to listen as opposed to immediatley opening fire *cough*drayfish*cough*. 

And yeah he doesn't really do anything Catalysty, considering he just gives info and points things out to us he could have been called the Signpost.