Kidding of course, hehe. Good point about breaking the monotony of the scene. Another option would have been to interpose cutscenes of war assets in action, more discussions like the one around the radio near Kaidan and James, anything to enhance the scene without needing the turret section per se.
You needed a break, and I didn't need a turret scene. Surely there could be another way to do this.
I will admit though that the gripe (for me) is minimal. One of the many things that seems glaring only because my search beams are on full-blast, scouring for details in an attempt to make sense of the finale.
Perhaps we should set up some sort of search grid, or stand in a line like we see the FBI do in popular films and television shows.
Also that is an interesting point about pacing that I hadn't considered.
Seijin8: Agreed, it would not have needed a turret. In fact, normal fighting would have been better. As in not having an FOB but holdouts in different locations, each held by one of your guys who is not in the squad or something (that way we could even have seen some of the others without the stupid holograms). Ah well, lot's of room for improvement in the little things.
Another option might have been "viewable" scenes like the storm on Mars was, with some of the battle in the skies above being observable, a vantage point on a rooftop allowing you to see Jack's biotic artillery/defense squad in action (from a distance), or Miranda's fighters strafing an area, etc. All avoidable if the player doesn't want to stop with the goodbyes.
And the holo conveyor-belt goodbyes (dis-assembly line?) was tacky at best. *That* kind of closure I could have done without.
Seijin8: Agreed, it would not have needed a turret. In fact, normal fighting would have been better. As in not having an FOB but holdouts in different locations, each held by one of your guys who is not in the squad or something (that way we could even have seen some of the others without the stupid holograms). Ah well, lot's of room for improvement in the little things.
Excellent idea! Go the other way altogether and make the turret/fighting scenes necessary to reconnect to the narrative/goodbye elements. Would have flowed better with the other Priority: Earth missions as well.
That interrupt in the scene does speak to a change in the narrative direction of BioWare. Someone interjected that scene, and a room full of people did not point out how wrong and unnecessary it was. Sad.
These are *not* the same people that baited me in and then nailed me with the Darth Revan reveal. These are *not* the same people who had me believing ME1 was the greatest feat in video game storytelling ever, before I had even been given the opportunity to control Shepard. Just the energy and depth of the first scene striding through the SR-1, the use of music and camera angle to set a pace that the game remained largely true to... Not the same.
EDIT: A few pages back, drayfish likened this thread to a wake, celebrating what was now gone, but lamenting the absence. When I imagine those first scenes of ME1 and juxtapose it with the final scenes, there is a distinct sense of loss attached.
Yep, it all went a bit strange. The farewells have been analysed quite well earlier in this thread, and the manner they are placed don't match standards for concluding a story. Personally, I disliked the farewells with the ME2 characters at the communicator just because they were so perfunctory, even if the dialogue was fine and in character.
It really feels like "Press button for farewell conversation" However, its one of the things I suspect will be addressed in the EC, especially for characters who were major players such as Jack and Miranda (but only if the VOs are available I guess)
That said, there is a similar scene in DAO when farewelling the party in the city .They pretty much line up to say goodbye, and if your warden later dies, that is the last conversation you have with the party. Maybe its a hard one to get right with a large cast of characters.
And on farewells, after hundreds of hours I thought a funeral for Shepherd would have been appropriate, if he has to die. I always choke up at the end of Serenity (Oh Wash, why?). If Shep must die, a scene of the characters laying a memorial would have been much more appropriate, and I would bawl my eyes out if Liara shed a tear.
Ah all too emotional - better put the footy or something else blokey on, although if the Blues lose State of Origin again this year I might use up this year's quota of tears.
One last point about funerals - Hector Tamer of Horses, a perfect example of closure in such a story. Homer did it, so should Bioware.
Seijin8: Agreed, it would not have needed a turret. In fact, normal fighting would have been better. As in not having an FOB but holdouts in different locations, each held by one of your guys who is not in the squad or something (that way we could even have seen some of the others without the stupid holograms). Ah well, lot's of room for improvement in the little things.
Great idea! It would also appeal to that "eve of battle" trope that is a standard war movie feature. Could even have two of the characters together to bring home the theme of unity (Jack and Miranda in a foxhole, not killing each other, heh)
btw, I missed your post about the conversations at the console - hence the duplication of your exact points.
You are right that it might just be very difficult to arrange the goodbyes in a way that gives a good feeling to those who are deeply invested without being a monotonous roadblock. In terms of game mechanics, maybe the holo-goodbye-conveyorbelt was a good idea, but it didn't feel right.
Contacting them by radio as you move between FOB areas and other mission elements might have worked as well. In none of the holo conversations was body language particularly important (though Grunt's hologram getting in Shepard's face was funny).
You are right that it might just be very difficult to arrange the goodbyes in a way that gives a good feeling to those who are deeply invested without being a monotonous roadblock. In terms of game mechanics, maybe the holo-goodbye-conveyorbelt was a good idea, but it didn't feel right.
Contacting them by radio as you move between FOB areas and other mission elements might have worked as well. In none of the holo conversations was body language particularly important (though Grunt's hologram getting in Shepard's face was funny).
My favourite farewell was Zaeed's, something that even I am surprised about. He was a character I should not have liked due to his questionable morality. However he epitomised the Dirty Dozen mentality, and telling Shepherd to go gut the enemy seemed appropriate as it was brutal and unsophisticated, exactly what I would expect such a man to say.
Any of the suggestions here would have been a better way to deliver those final words. Alas,I dont imagine the console scene will be removed, but we may see a bit more nt in the EC.
frypan wrote... Any of the suggestions here would have been a better way to deliver those final words. Alas,I dont imagine the console scene will be removed, but we may see a bit more nt in the EC.
Hopefully we will. In response to your earlier comment. I think you have very good chances with that funeral scene. At least in my opinion that is a must for the EC if Shepard is dead. It was one of the things that I was instantly missing in the main game and it is an opportunity for the other characters (at least those that are not stranded on Gulliver's planet) to get that counterpoint to the farewell scenes we mentioned in the earlier discussion.
Mabe it would have been better to portray the Reapers as a program gone rogue. There is still enough stuff for nightmares especially if one recollects the trillions of minds within the Reapers (information received from Legion). Are they aware on some level? do they go "Go Reaper Go" or are they perpetually screaming "we want out?". Were the humans aware in the Reaper larva and shouting for Shepard to save them or destroy them? Is beeing sloshed into a Reaper tantamount to entering The Matrix? If Shepard would have becomne aware that within each Reaper a nation resides (maybe indoctrinated or not), how would that effect the "destroy-option"? Could the quest to save this cycle also include "saving" every cycle that has come before?
Hi all, love this thread and havent had anything to contribute so far, but this post really moved me.
The idea of the reapers as an entity composed of their victims is one ripe with potential and congruent with the assimilation scenes of ME2. The idea that people are being forcibly turned into synthetics serves as a horrid counterpart to the more positive message of growth expressed through synthetic life, such as the geth and EDI who are becoming something like organics.
The reapers, galactic parastites that they are, could have made themselves from the essence of their victims and this would have created, for me, a truly beautiful ending if the catalyst had somehow allowed Shepherd to release them from their suffering as a method of destroying the threat. The idea of all those lifeforms finally being able to tear free of their forced bondage could have been a powerful motif driving the fall of the enemy.
Imagine too the renegade path. Shepherd takes control, following the Illusive Man's philosophy, siezing all that power for humanity, or himself, rather than releasing it.
While quasi mystical in approach, we have seen references to the beliefs of creatures throughout the series that supports the idea of consciousness surviving life. The power of the mind has been expressed through biotics and Shepherd himself serves as an example of somebody transcending death. These seem to set up precedents for the idea that people are somehow trapped inside the form of the reapers, and not just as some sort of goo.
All this fits within the existing structure and I'd say was even contemplated - as evidenced by the copies of the Hyperion Cantos on one of the devs's desks. (can't remember which doco I saw that in) In Hyperion, the fate of humanity under the cruciform was very similar to the suffering in ME, as they were being turned into a form of processing power for the malevolent AI's.
I imagine a scene of the destruction of the reapers, watching them collapse and fall apart -knowing that their downfall also brings an end to the suffering of their victims. For me this would have made the ending very moving and allowed some measure of catharsis even if Shepherd had to die. He would have been releasing countless souls as part of winning the war, rather than averting some future singularity catastrophe.
No need for star child either. The catalyst could simply have been the the blueprint for holding the tormented within their reaper hosts, and thus the key to allowing their release.
Apologies for the ill formed ideas and poor language. Have been enjoying this thread so much I just had to try and contribute.
EDIT for some of the worst spelling
EDIT I've often found myself only making one good comment or joke at a party, which I hold onto as validation for the invite. In this case, I feel like a gatecrasher who hopes to be noticed in a good way. Did bring some salty snacks and Tasmanian beer if that helps.
You've just blown my mind here, the images are so powerful. Realising that every individual being dissolved into making each Reaper may still have a consciousness. It may be restrained and dormant but it 's still there. On some level they are aware and have had to exist like this for millions of years. Then you have the chance to release them from their torment. Imagine every cell inside the Reaper's body becoming suddenly conscious, billions of souls awakening and billions of voices screaming in rage. To die like that. I can almost pity the Reapers.
frypan wrote... Any of the suggestions here would have been a better way to deliver those final words. Alas,I dont imagine the console scene will be removed, but we may see a bit more nt in the EC.
Hopefully we will. In response to your earlier comment. I think you have very good chances with that funeral scene. At least in my opinion that is a must for the EC if Shepard is dead. It was one of the things that I was instantly missing in the main game and it is an opportunity for the other characters (at least those that are not stranded on Gulliver's planet) to get that counterpoint to the farewell scenes we mentioned in the earlier discussion.
I'd like it to be as simple and understated as adding Shepard's name to Normandy memorial. It would be the very first time in the series we could see Shepard referred to by his/her full name.
I'd like it to be as simple and understated as adding Shepard's name to Normandy memorial. It would be the very first time in the series we could see Shepard referred to by his/her full name.
Yes, I've always found it disturbing that Liara (or any love interest for that matter) calls him "Shepard" even after the 3rd time they had sex
First, an apology. What I said was a lot more emotionally fuelled than I meant it to be and I stamped my foot down with a "you're wrong" attitude. I'm sorry for that. I remember hearing that the Crucible doesn't fit the criteria for a McGuffin, though. Thoughts?
@ KitaSaturnyne,
No need to apologise. I didn't take your question as aggressive at all. In fact, my apologies if my response sounded as though I did.
Sadly, I'm not sure I have much to offer to the discussion of the MacGuffin. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I had thought that the Crucible was going to be a MacGuffin at first, because the whole contrivance that by pure providence we just happened to stumble upon this new piece of information that could somehow turn the tide of war seemed a little too easy, and therefore suspect. I was expecting that we'd be pouring resources into this mysterious piece of tech only to realise that it had some entirely different purpose. But of course, that's not how it ultimately plays out. In the end of Mass Effect 3, the Crucible does prove to be fundamentally tied to the means by which the climax resolves, so all that MacGuffininess dissolves into narrative necessity, and we instead progress onto the discussion with the Spirit-of-Macaulay-Culkin, who transplants the plot to the realm of the metaphysical.
Honestly, I kind of assumed the Crucible was all just a means through which we would get to the Dark Energy stuff, which is what had leapt out at me from the previous game. In fact, I was surprised that they seemed to entirely jettison that plotline. I remember it standing out so effectively in Mass Effect 2 on the planet where Tali rejoined the crew. It was eating a sun – a bit of an attention-grabber – but we never got back to it; so I filed it in the clearly-of-galactic-importance drawer of my mental cabinet, and went back to trying to get Jack to maybe get a hobby – you know, stamp collecting or some-such.
Suddenly, an M-35 Mako vaults over a nearby embankment, damaged but operable. Shepard's piloting, having managed to survive the beam explosion, in what could potentially be his final act of defiance against the Reapers. All weapons are go. Shepard points the Mako's cannon at Harbinger's glowing eyes.
Objective: Piloting the M-35 Mako, defeat Harbinger.
Also, and I'm sure it goes without saying: yay, Mako!
p.s. – I'm so glad 'Space-Ghost' got some traction. Personally, CulturalGeekGirl, I was imagining Shepard taking some cues from Zorak when he faced the Catalyst:
frypan wrote... I imagine a scene of the destruction of the reapers, watching them collapse and fall apart -knowing that their downfall also brings an end to the suffering of their victims. For me this would have made the ending very moving and allowed some measure of catharsis even if Shepherd had to die. He would have been releasing countless souls as part of winning the war, rather than averting some future singularity catastrophe.
I have to shamelessly jump on the back of JadedLibertine's comments - that is such a beautiful image, frypan. Elegant, poetic, soulful, a true symbol of heroism and release.
Secondly:
jbauck wrote...
*sigh* As much as I wish there were a Shepard Lives And Gets A Real Epilogue ending, I also really, really wish there were an ending where a Yahg, a Pyjak and maybe one of the sneaky space-cows from ME1 have become the heirs to galactic civilization, and they're the new Council on the Citadel, and some Pyjak archaeologist is playing Liara's recording for them ...
I want this! I want this now! My money was always on the sneaky space cow being the Reaper king anyway.
For me it's finally become clear what I so hate about this ending. I agree with all the statements on its failings as to structure and story cohesion, but when I focused on the story, I often only took the words of the star kid and the ridiculous choices given to task. But, my issues (probably already stated by others) are far more obvious.
The idea of the god in the machine, ghost in the machine, man behind the curtain, is of course a well worn theme, but one with more presence at some point throughout other stories than in just the last 5 minutes or 10 pages.
My issues are with the idea that the game even needed or should have turned focus onto some super being to begin with. It's about fate and choice and that's where the ending falls or fails the most for me.
I think I've seen it all along. I always wanted a team effort-me and my buds and my war assets fighting toe to tentacle with the things that haunt me. But I never fully understood just why the game fails in this.
For me, it's all about not just the choice to change antagonists, but the choice to create a protagonist/antagonist and to remove the main underlying force within the game.
ME was always all about the individual and overcoming great odds. It was specifically about one larger than life individual that saw more in others than they saw themselves. Shepard believed in doing things, and that they could be done. A paragon Shepard might see the basic gut level decency in people and appeal to that in order to get them to evolve and seek better things, better ways. A renegade might just run right over them to demand they see things his/her way. But what is there all along is the force and will of Shepard and what is created is a coming together of disparate individuals to face adversity.
Shepard creates growth within others and they do somehow put away (not put aside) old grievances and seek to work together. Some things are more obvious given a paragon Shepard, but there are examples of this with a renegade as well.
The story was never about needing some super being to swoop down and "help" the characters/races. The only quasi-super being was Shepard, but the ending neuters him/her.
The ending also removes any thought that individuals can help shape their destiny or that they can come together with others to do so. It, in fact, demolishes that as an idea. It reinforces the idea of fate and hopelessness and lack of will and true choice. It supplants all that with an over-reaching ambiguously helpful/hurtful being with ulterior motives that gets to have final say. The conclusion is the star kid is there because he is needed. Advanced organics/people cannot be left to fight their own fights, cannot make their own even if flawed decisions. People always will need someone pulling the strings. And when Shepard hobbles off and picks a color, s/he reinforces the travesty of this.
The ending simply says that people are fated to do what star kid wants them to do. He gives the artifice of choice, but since they are his decided upon choices, they aren't really choices. If Shepard chooses one, s/he gives up on "humanity" (meaning the thing within all advanced organics that makes them tick and care) and gives in to unavoidable fate.
The ending also gets rid of the idea that people can independently decide how to accomplish something-that they might do a good thing and are capable of doing it, that they can overcome. In the last few minutes of this game, people become meaningless and are shown to be woefully in need of some super computer brain kid. There may be some real world corollaries to this, but there are just as many if not more examples of where people do believe they determine their own destinies based mostly on their own actions and choices. They may seek guidance of what they see as a higher power, but still believe they make their own mistakes or decide to do the better thing.
This changed the story and it is out of character for real people, much less the people clearly defined within Mass Effect.
No need to apologise. I didn't take your question as aggressive at all. In fact, my apologies if my response sounded as though I did.
Sadly, I'm not sure I have much to offer to the discussion of the MacGuffin. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I had thought that the Crucible was going to be a MacGuffin at first, because the whole contrivance that by pure providence we just happened to stumble upon this new piece of information that could somehow turn the tide of war seemed a little too easy, and therefore suspect. I was expecting that we'd be pouring resources into this mysterious piece of tech only to realise that it had some entirely different purpose. But of course, that's not how it ultimately plays out. In the end of Mass Effect 3, the Crucible does prove to be fundamentally tied to the means by which the climax resolves, so all that MacGuffininess dissolves into narrative necessity, and we instead progress onto the discussion with the Spirit-of-Macaulay-Culkin, who transplants the plot to the realm of the metaphysical.
Honestly, I kind of assumed the Crucible was all just a means through which we would get to the Dark Energy stuff, which is what had leapt out at me from the previous game. In fact, I was surprised that they seemed to entirely jettison that plotline. I remember it standing out so effectively in Mass Effect 2 on the planet where Tali rejoined the crew. It was eating a sun – a bit of an attention-grabber – but we never got back to it; so I filed it in the clearly-of-galactic-importance drawer of my mental cabinet, and went back to trying to get Jack to maybe get a hobby – you know, stamp collecting or some-such.
Suddenly, an M-35 Mako vaults over a nearby embankment, damaged but operable. Shepard's piloting, having managed to survive the beam explosion, in what could potentially be his final act of defiance against the Reapers. All weapons are go. Shepard points the Mako's cannon at Harbinger's glowing eyes.
Objective: Piloting the M-35 Mako, defeat Harbinger.
Also, and I'm sure it goes without saying: yay, Mako!
p.s. – I'm so glad 'Space-Ghost' got some traction. Personally, CulturalGeekGirl, I was imagining Shepard taking some cues from Zorak when he faced the Catalyst:
@drayfish
Then there was no reason for either of us to apologize.
I continue to laugh at how you're able to come up with so many metaphors to describe the non-Catalyst. "Non-Catalyst" is the best I can come up with.
I've been thinking about the Rachni and how them being indoctrinated makes no sense. Consider the following:
- The Rachni Wars occurred 2182 years before the events of Mass Effect begin.
I did entertain Seijin's idea that Sovereign was using the Rachni as a means to create a more favorable situation for the Reapers to invade. The species of the galaxy at the end of the Rachni Wars would have been somewhat depleted as well as fatigued, and an entire species that could resist the Reapers had been wiped out. However, that leaves a couple of problems. The first is that Sovereign waits two millenia before ringing everyone in for dinner, which more than allows not only for the populations of the galaxy to restore themselves, but to also bolster and expand their numbers quite greatly. The second is that the Reapers saunter into the galaxy in 2186-87, fully confident they're going to do their thing, then go home to regale each other of their latest stories in reaping over a nice cup of tea. This means that there must be no need to weaken their prey before pouncing on it. This is reinforced by the fact that when the Reapers do invade, Humanity and the Krogan have since joined the galactic community, and we still have to resort to whipping out the McCrucible in order to stop them, with no idea if it will even work.
- Sovereign didn't discover that its alarm clock function had been sabotaged until shortly before it allies with Saren (hence, you know, the alliance with Saren).
As for Sovereign's broken dinner bell, I'd had the thought that Sovereign test drove the Rachni after the Keepers ignored its signal, but it doesn't find out about that until shortly before ME1, or at least, some point after the Rachni Wars. If I'm wrong about that, please correct me.
- The Rachni would have been 'too young' to have been harvested.
The fact that the Rachni exist at all points to their being too young to have been harvested in the previous extinction cycle. In addition, they would have been harvested completely, not simply indoctrinated and left for the other species of the galaxy to find.
PS - Was I the only one giggling about how we were on page 69 last night? Come on.
*sigh* As much as I wish there were a Shepard Lives And Gets A Real Epilogue ending, I also really, really wish there were an ending where a Yahg, a Pyjak and maybe one of the sneaky space-cows from ME1 have become the heirs to galactic civilization, and they're the new Council on the Citadel, and some Pyjak archaeologist is playing Liara's recording for them ...
I want this! I want this now! My money was always on the sneaky space cow being the Reaper king anyway.
...He was just so sneaky.
Hey, what about the monkey that takes the satellite component! He was pretty sneaky! He was nigh on nuclear!*
I'd like it to be as simple and understated as adding Shepard's name to Normandy memorial. It would be the very first time in the series we could see Shepard referred to by his/her full name.
Yes, I've always found it disturbing that Liara (or any love interest for that matter) calls him "Shepard" even after the 3rd time they had sex
I've been thinking about the Rachni and how them being indoctrinated makes no sense. Consider the following:
- The Rachni Wars occurred 2182 years before the events of Mass Effect begin.
I did entertain Seijin's idea that Sovereign was using the Rachni as a means to create a more favorable situation for the Reapers to invade. The species of the galaxy at the end of the Rachni Wars would have been somewhat depleted as well as fatigued, and an entire species that could resist the Reapers had been wiped out. However, that leaves a couple of problems. The first is that Sovereign waits two millenia before ringing everyone in for dinner, which more than allows not only for the populations of the galaxy to restore themselves, but to also bolster and expand their numbers quite greatly. The second is that the Reapers saunter into the galaxy in 2186-87, fully confident they're going to do their thing, then go home to regale each other of their latest stories in reaping over a nice cup of tea. This means that there must be no need to weaken their prey before pouncing on it. This is reinforced by the fact that when the Reapers do invade, Humanity and the Krogan have since joined the galactic community, and we still have to resort to whipping out the McCrucible in order to stop them, with no idea if it will even work.
- Sovereign didn't discover that its alarm clock function had been sabotaged until shortly before it allies with Saren (hence, you know, the alliance with Saren).
As for Sovereign's broken dinner bell, I'd had the thought that Sovereign test drove the Rachni after the Keepers ignored its signal, but it doesn't find out about that until shortly before ME1, or at least, some point after the Rachni Wars. If I'm wrong about that, please correct me.
- The Rachni would have been 'too young' to have been harvested.
The fact that the Rachni exist at all points to their being too young to have been harvested in the previous extinction cycle. In addition, they would have been harvested completely, not simply indoctrinated and left for the other species of the galaxy to find.
PS - Was I the only one giggling about how we were on page 69 last night? Come on.
I think the reason Sovereign waited 2000+ years before making another move (assuming it was behing the rachni wars, which I am fully in support of) was because it's just one Reaper. They're damn powerful, but much as I joke about them being nigh-omnipotent, they can be killed. One Reaper trying to husk-ify an entire civilization would likely be suicide. However, the geth, another hive-mind intelligence, proved ripe for domination.
Where do we find out where/when/how Sovereign discovers that the "dinner bell" has been sabotaged?
I think the reason Sovereign waited 2000+ years before making another move (assuming it was behing the rachni wars, which I am fully in support of) was because it's just one Reaper. They're damn powerful, but much as I joke about them being nigh-omnipotent, they can be killed. One Reaper trying to husk-ify an entire civilization would likely be suicide. However, the geth, another hive-mind intelligence, proved ripe for domination.
Where do we find out where/when/how Sovereign discovers that the "dinner bell" has been sabotaged?
I just personally think it would have made more sense at the time to just cut out the middle man (the Rachni) and go straight for the Citadel.
On Ilos, Vigil tells Shepard that the Prothean scientists used the Conduit to sneak onto the Citadel, where they sabotaged the Keeper signal, then probably died on the Citadel of starvation.
I just personally think it would have made more sense at the time to just cut out the middle man (the Rachni) and go straight for the Citadel.
On Ilos, Vigil tells Shepard that the Prothean scientists used the Conduit to sneak onto the Citadel, where they sabotaged the Keeper signal, then probably died on the Citadel of starvation.
I may need to play ME1 again (oh darn...) to get some of this lore straight. I agree that Sovereign could have simply made a bum rush on the Citadel and probably would have been able to make it to activate the signal on his own. However, it may very well be that Sovereign simply didn't know that it was the Keeper signal that had been sabotaged, rather than something far more damning - like it was no longer working at all. Plus, it's always smarter to bring an army with you!
I may need to play ME1 again (oh darn...) to get some of this lore straight. I agree that Sovereign could have simply made a bum rush on the Citadel and probably would have been able to make it to activate the signal on his own. However, it may very well be that Sovereign simply didn't know that it was the Keeper signal that had been sabotaged, rather than something far more damning - like it was no longer working at all. Plus, it's always smarter to bring an army with you!
True! But I offer another counter point: Close the Citadel. This would have surprised the Citadel patrolling fleets, allowing Sovereign to attack first, wade through a few counterattacks, then attach itself to the presidium tower and do its thing. The entire fight at the end of ME1 would not have happened if Shepard hadn't been there to open the ward arms.
I just personally think it would have made more sense at the time to just cut out the middle man (the Rachni) and go straight for the Citadel.
On Ilos, Vigil tells Shepard that the Prothean scientists used the Conduit to sneak onto the Citadel, where they sabotaged the Keeper signal, then probably died on the Citadel of starvation.
I may need to play ME1 again (oh darn...) to get some of this lore straight. I agree that Sovereign could have simply made a bum rush on the Citadel and probably would have been able to make it to activate the signal on his own. However, it may very well be that Sovereign simply didn't know that it was the Keeper signal that had been sabotaged, rather than something far more damning - like it was no longer working at all. Plus, it's always smarter to bring an army with you!
It doesn't make any kind of sense to me, really, for Sovereign to have waited two thousand years to reopen the Citadel instead of the three or so years (tops - some estimates are lower) for the Reapers to motor in from dark space without the Citadel relay. It makes the Citadel a convenience instead of a linchpin, undermining the desperation implicit in Shepard's preparations, and makes an utter hash of the overarching plot. Not like there's much to work with in terms of coherence in the Reaper motivations, anyways.
I realize the rachni queen's "sour note from space" bit was suggestive of indoctrination, but I think it was supposed to be a hook rather than a complete idea, to be revisited later on - which we didn't really get, given how little the rachni plot mattered in the end.
True! But I offer another counter point: Close the Citadel. This would have surprised the Citadel patrolling fleets, allowing Sovereign to attack first, wade through a few counterattacks, then attach itself to the presidium tower and do its thing. The entire fight at the end of ME1 would not have happened if Shepard hadn't been there to open the ward arms.
Saren opened the ward arms, though. Hence, I guess, the need for the conduit in the first place. The conduit allowed Saren to act as an inside man, opening the arms after they were predictably closed once Sovereign launched the attack (with enough geth to keep the main forces busy). On his own, without Saren or the geth, Sovereign would have had to deal with a closed Citadel and combined defensive forces of the Citadel fleet.
It doesn't make any kind of sense to me, really, for Sovereign to have waited two thousand years to reopen the Citadel instead of the three or so years (tops - some estimates are lower) for the Reapers to motor in from dark space without the Citadel relay. It makes the Citadel a convenience instead of a linchpin, undermining the desperation implicit in Shepard's preparations, and makes an utter hash of the overarching plot. Not like there's much to work with in terms of coherence in the Reaper motivations, anyways.
I realize the rachni queen's "sour note from space" bit was suggestive of indoctrination, but I think it was supposed to be a hook rather than a complete idea, to be revisited later on - which we didn't really get, given how little the rachni plot mattered in the end.
Yeah... I mean narratively speaking, the Reapers needed some way to get into the galaxy without the Citadel. Having it take them only three years at FTL speeds seems silly, but ultimately necessary for storytelling purposes.
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