5087 réponses à ce sujet

[Hawk227]

delta_vee wrote...

@MrAtomica:

Your usage of commas is in line with my own. You needn't apologize, or I would be compelled to as well. I...wouldn't want that.

And a fine rant to boot, by the by.

I second this. If anyone should be apologizing for commas, it's me.

Also a very nice rant, indeed.

I'm a little surprised that Dekuuna resonated so strongly for so many people. I thought I might have been alone in that gripe (or at least the forcefulness of it).

jbauck wrote...


I totally bought the fish feeder VI Liara + BioticShepard = I Don't Need Guns.

I'm usually an infiltrator, but switched to sentinel for ME3. Liara + Throw = Mayhem

[KitaSaturnyne]

delta_vee wrote...

What game are you referring to? I remember no such thing. There are two Deus Ex games, not three!

Haha live in denial if you must, but Alex D was great, and you know it!

[delta_vee]

KitaSaturnyne wrote...

delta_vee wrote...

What game are you referring to? I remember no such thing. There are two Deus Ex games, not three!

Haha live in denial if you must, but Alex D was great, and you know it!

Invisible War was a decent game. What a shame some poor deluded souls kept insisting it was a spiritual successor to Deus Ex.

[KitaSaturnyne]

delta_vee wrote...

Invisible War was a decent game. What a shame some poor deluded souls kept insisting it was a spiritual successor to Deus Ex.

Lol, you ass. Oh well, at least we can both agree that Invisible War was a game.

[edisnooM]

Hawk227 wrote...

I'm usually an infiltrator, but switched to sentinel for ME3. Liara + Throw = Mayhem

I always found the ability to change classes during import a bit amusing, especially with biotics it was just sort of sudden:
"You're a biotic Harry Shepard." 

Modifié par edisnooM, 11 mai 2012 - 05:02 .

[delta_vee]

Hawk227 wrote...

I'm a little surprised that Dekuuna resonated so strongly for so many people. I thought I might have been alone in that gripe (or at least the forcefulness of it).

A funny thing happened on the way to Dekuuna...

Anyways, that brings up Yet Another Missed Opportunity for me. Given the narrative necessity* of ME3's relative breakneck pace, it bothers me to no end that BW didn't take the opportunity to better integrate both sides of the game (combat and dialogue-wheel) that such rescue missions allowed. If you're going to go with the horde-mode waves in so many side missions, why not give it a twist like protecting refugees loading onto a ship? Few (if any) of the problems with traditional escort missions, and a nice skill feedback mechanism. Hold out as long as you can, save as many as you can, and eventually you reach a point where you can't hold off the next wave, so you retreat. Reinforces the whole "war is hell" theme, the "sacrifice" theme, the "can't save everyone" theme, and gets the multiplayer-mandated horde mode to boot. Somebody tell me I'm wrong...

* As previously mentioned so eloquently by drayfish.

Modifié par delta_vee, 11 mai 2012 - 05:03 .

[delta_vee]

KitaSaturnyne wrote...

Lol, you ass. Oh well, at least we can both agree that Invisible War was a game.

"Let it be known that I am an ass."

Sorry, couldn't help it.

[edisnooM]

delta_vee wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

I'm a little surprised that Dekuuna resonated so strongly for so many people. I thought I might have been alone in that gripe (or at least the forcefulness of it).

A funny thing happened on the way to Dekuuna...

Anyways, that brings up Yet Another Missed Opportunity for me. Given the narrative necessity* of ME3's relative breakneck pace, it bothers me to no end that BW didn't take the opportunity to better integrate both sides of the game (combat and dialogue-wheel) that such rescue missions allowed. If you're going to go with the horde-mode waves in so many side missions, why not give it a twist like protecting refugees loading onto a ship? Few (if any) of the problems with traditional escort missions, and a nice skill feedback mechanism. Hold out as long as you can, save as many as you can, and eventually you reach a point where you can't hold off the next wave, so you retreat. Reinforces the whole "war is hell" theme, the "sacrifice" theme, the "can't save everyone" theme, and gets the multiplayer-mandated horde mode to boot. Somebody tell me I'm wrong...

* As previously mentioned so eloquently by drayfish.

Wow that would have been cool, and it would have put a more personal touch to the losses we keep hearing about. They sort of did that on Benning, but it was very odd since the refugees kept running between me and the Cerberus troops.

Modifié par edisnooM, 11 mai 2012 - 05:07 .

[delta_vee]

edisnooM wrote...

Wow that would have been cool, and it would have put a more personal touch to the losses we keep hearing about. They sort of did that on Benning, but it was very odd since the refugees kept running between me and the Cerberus troops.

The pathing problems stem from it being a multiplayer map, thus having no real exit. To do an evac mission properly you have to have a unidirectional funnel, which doesn't suit a closed multipath MP level layout very well.

[TheMarshal]

delta_vee wrote...

A funny thing happened on the way to Dekuuna...

Anyways, that brings up Yet Another Missed Opportunity for me. Given the narrative necessity* of ME3's relative breakneck pace, it bothers me to no end that BW didn't take the opportunity to better integrate both sides of the game (combat and dialogue-wheel) that such rescue missions allowed. If you're going to go with the horde-mode waves in so many side missions, why not give it a twist like protecting refugees loading onto a ship? Few (if any) of the problems with traditional escort missions, and a nice skill feedback mechanism. Hold out as long as you can, save as many as you can, and eventually you reach a point where you can't hold off the next wave, so you retreat. Reinforces the whole "war is hell" theme, the "sacrifice" theme, the "can't save everyone" theme, and gets the multiplayer-mandated horde mode to boot. Somebody tell me I'm wrong...

* As previously mentioned so eloquently by drayfish.

So very true...  As pleased as I was with ME3 the game as it was when I first played through it (minus the final ten, obviously), I've found myself growing more and more displeased because of the game it could have been based on everything that we've been talking about for 70+ pages now.  There are a plethora of ways in which they could have achieved the same "war is hell" mentality while still giving us the character development and world exploration that we loved about the first (arguably) two games.

[Hawk227]

edisnooM wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

I'm usually an infiltrator, but switched to sentinel for ME3. Liara + Throw = Mayhem

I always found the ability to change classes during import a bit amusing, especially with biotics it was just sort of sudden:
"You're a biotic Harry Shepard." 

You can change their face too! But I agree, I bit the realism bullett and made the change in the name of fun (that's the point right?). Nothing satisfies quite like trapping three cerberus shock troopers in a singularity and detonating it with throw. Boom!

PS: I just figured your name out. edisnooM|Moonside. It only took me a week!
PPS: Making me laugh again. Either I'm going soft, or there is a high comedian count in this thread.


@delta_vee

I can't. You're right. I've already said I wished the N7 missions had changed to short rescue missions in significant locations (like Kahje, Irune, and Dekuuna). You're horde mode addition would only make it that much stronger.

EDIT: Gah! Grammar, who needs it?

Modifié par Hawk227, 11 mai 2012 - 05:15 .

[edisnooM]

Speaking of Benning, they seemed to be starting some sort of plot on divisions forming within Cerberus, but it was never again touched on that I recall.

[KitaSaturnyne]

delta_vee wrote...

"Let it be known that I am an ass."

Sorry, couldn't help it.

Hehe I'd demand you change your icon to a donkey, but you'd probably change it to a donkey's rear end.

I remember during my first playthrough, the presence of things such as Bakara and even setting foot on Thessia gave me the impression that ME3 was going to try to cram as much "we haven't done/ shown this before in ME3" kind of content into the game. After all, we'd never seen a female Krogan (though I think there is supposed to be one near the Shaman on Tuchanka in ME2), been able to set foot on many others' home planets, or other things like that.

What would have been great for me is one last hurrah with the cast of ME2 - one last mission for each ME2 character in place of the goodbye calls in London. Just a bunch of missions where you know this is the last time you'll see each other before you head back to Earth. Put that in place of the Sprint Holo-call conveyer belt at the end, and I'd be pretty happy. It's a lot of work though, so I won't hold my breath.

[edisnooM]

@Hawk227

Yeah. it sometimes takes people a while to get it, especially if they haven't had anything to do with Earthbound. But it makes my victory geek laugh all the more satisfying. :-)

[KitaSaturnyne]

edisnooM wrote...

@Hawk227

Yeah. it sometimes takes people a while to get it, especially if they haven't had anything to do with Earthbound. But it makes my victory geek laugh all the more satisfying. :-)

I still have my copy of Earthbound lying about somewhere. I used to have the strategy guide that came with the game too. Sigh... the halcyon days. Sniffle...

[edisnooM]

KitaSaturnyne wrote...

edisnooM wrote...

@Hawk227

Yeah. it sometimes takes people a while to get it, especially if they haven't had anything to do with Earthbound. But it makes my victory geek laugh all the more satisfying. :-)

I still have my copy of Earthbound lying about somewhere. I used to have the strategy guide that came with the game too. Sigh... the halcyon days. Sniffle...

Scratch and Sniffle? 

[KitaSaturnyne]

edisnooM wrote...

KitaSaturnyne wrote...

edisnooM wrote...

@Hawk227

Yeah. it sometimes takes people a while to get it, especially if they haven't had anything to do with Earthbound. But it makes my victory geek laugh all the more satisfying. :-)

I still have my copy of Earthbound lying about somewhere. I used to have the strategy guide that came with the game too. Sigh... the halcyon days. Sniffle...

Scratch and Sniffle? 

Yes. And trout-flavored yogurt!

[Seijin8]

Re: Dekuuna

I think one of the reasons that people may be especially flustered about this is that it mixed two missing thematic elements from prior games: exploration (Elcor homeworld!) and the chance to be a hero in a direct, personal sense of the word (as opposed to the disconnected galactic hero). To be honest, there are several rescue style missions throughout ME3, but most are necessary to bring about a larger goal. Shepard saves the primarch to gain support for Earth. Shepard saves the Quarian admiral to help stop the Geth war. Only Benning was a straight-up rescue mission, and it failed (with me) to resonate in any meaningful way. At best, Shepard rescued those people to stop whatever Cerberus was doing on Benning, not to save people per se.

[RamilVenoard]

The PR screen that BioWare has erected as a line of defense against it's critics seems to filter out a key notion: we are upset NOT because we hate them and wish horrifying ends upon them, but rather because we have faith in their abilities to create a proper ending which is thematically congruent with the previous games. The fact that they did not came as a shock to me, and if I am angry, it is only because I know they can do better and because my expectations were dashed to tiny, "go'ram" pieces.

Also, wonderfully thought out and articulated arguments. That ought to silence those who see us as whiny, entitled teenagers who did not get their way. But it won't. And BW still won't listen. Who are we kidding.

Modifié par RamilVenoard, 11 mai 2012 - 06:14 .

[Seijin8]

This was posted in another thread, but as it is a different direction of criticism for the ending - this time as a "video game" as opposed to a "story" - it bears some consideration

http://calitreview.com/25421

[KitaSaturnyne]

Seijin8 wrote...

This was posted in another thread, but as it is a different direction of criticism for the ending - this time as a "video game" as opposed to a "story" - it bears some consideration

http://calitreview.com/25421

I touched on that point briefly in the thread. As far as I'm concerned, I still think we need to be able to talk down the Illusive Man and all that, but I still LOVE my idea where the big climactic battle is you in a Mako, zooming around the ruins of London, dodging stomping Harbinger feet while waiting for its Reaper beam eye to open.

Boss fights are one of the most rewarding parts of video games. It's fine if parts of ME3, especially a big battle at the end with Harbinger, are "video gamey". Mass Effect is a video game!

[Seijin8]

KitaSaturnyne wrote...

Seijin8 wrote...

This was posted in another thread, but as it is a different direction of criticism for the ending - this time as a "video game" as opposed to a "story" - it bears some consideration

http://calitreview.com/25421

I touched on that point briefly in the thread. As far as I'm concerned, I still think we need to be able to talk down the Illusive Man and all that, but I still LOVE my idea where the big climactic battle is you in a Mako, zooming around the ruins of London, dodging stomping Harbinger feet while waiting for its Reaper beam eye to open.

Boss fights are one of the most rewarding parts of video games. It's fine if parts of ME3, especially a big battle at the end with Harbinger, are "video gamey". Mass Effect is a video game!

With the above Mako vs. Harbinger battle, this would also be a place for your war assets to play a role.  Volus Bombers could help to whittle down Harbinger's health, or even have the moment before Harby manages to stomp you like a spent cigarette, that's when the war assets come into play.  If you had enough of them, you get "multiple lives" to accomplish this mission.

Zooming around ruins in London would make a fine level in and of itself, as would being able to jump jet on top of those buildings for a better vantage point/shot.

Modifié par Seijin8, 11 mai 2012 - 06:53 .

[KitaSaturnyne]

Seijin8 wrote...

With the above Mako vs. Harbinger battle, this would also be a place for your war assets to play a role.  Volus Bombers could help to whittle down Harbinger's health, or even have the moment before Harby manages to stomp you like a spent cigarette, that's when the war assets come into play.  If you had enough of them, you get "multiple lives" to accomplish this mission.

Zooming around ruins in London would make a fine level in and of itself, as would being able to jump jet on top of those buildings for a better vantage point/shot.

Wait for the eye to open, explosive shell to daze Harbinger, machine gun fire to follow up. You could even potentially jump from building to building as Harbinger stomps/ blasts them to smithereens. More war assets means Harbinger has to wait more turns before it can destroy the current building you're on.

[edisnooM]

KitaSaturnyne wrote...

Seijin8 wrote...

With the above Mako vs. Harbinger battle, this would also be a place for your war assets to play a role.  Volus Bombers could help to whittle down Harbinger's health, or even have the moment before Harby manages to stomp you like a spent cigarette, that's when the war assets come into play.  If you had enough of them, you get "multiple lives" to accomplish this mission.

Zooming around ruins in London would make a fine level in and of itself, as would being able to jump jet on top of those buildings for a better vantage point/shot.

Wait for the eye to open, explosive shell to daze Harbinger, machine gun fire to follow up. You could even potentially jump from building to building as Harbinger stomps/ blasts them to smithereens. More war assets means Harbinger has to wait more turns before it can destroy the current building you're on.

Just like bullseyeing Thresher Maws back home.

And that article was very interesting.

It brings to mind the thought that presumably people get into making video games because they like them, but if you end up taking out all the things you liked about games in the first place then what do you have left?

I'm not saying developers shouldn't try new things, but I think it should be done with great consideration to the medium. 

Modifié par edisnooM, 11 mai 2012 - 07:45 .

[Seijin8]

For me, the article highlighted the disproportionate degree of evolution and refinement between literature as an art form and video games as an art form. We have been mainly applying literature-based concepts to gaming, and that is probably the correct approach for a game with such heavy narrative elements as ME.

However, the link between player arousal states (no, not sexual... though not strictly *not* sexual either, I guess) and the story arc set off alarm bells for me. In hindsight, it is obvious that the player's level of excitement needs to match the story's pace, but I hadn't considered that linkage before.