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[edisnooM]

KitaSaturnyne wrote...

edisnooM wrote...

First excellent previous post, very well said.

Second I have asked myself that same question many times. In fact I wrote a bit of a rant about it a few days ago to get it out of my system. 

It's so incredibly frustrating how close it came to being if not great at least good. But no, Willy Wonka's Glass Elevator had to take us up to see the Catalyst.

Ugh, now I think I'll go kill some Banshees in multiplayer to get rid of my frustration.

Consider yourself lucky, Mani Mani. No one will let me play with them because I'm level 1 and they're all level 375.

I didn't buy ME3 for the multiplayer, but I figured I'd give it a try. No luck after 10 straight rooms kicking me out for being too low level, so I've given up on it altogether.

Doesn't the Shepard breath scene open a whole new can of worms in relation to the ending/ overall narrative/ sacrifice, etc.?

It helps to stick to bronze when starting with a new character, otherwise you will probably get killed easily.

The breath scene is odd, it is technically the most difficult ending to get, so my gamer mentality says its the "Best", however BioWare said you wouldn't need multiplayer to get the best ending, and Mike Gamble seemed to think that meant Synthesis. 

I will say that the rubble Shepard is lying in does look reminiscent of concrete and rebar, so it does lean to looking like it's on Earth (other people claim to see a Mako wheel, though I haven't personally). Also how Shepard could have survived an explosion on the top of the Citadel, not to mention the Citadel blowing up rather spectacularly, is beyond me.

Overall I have no idea what BioWare intended with it, if they wanted the endings to be taken at face value and work logically (though the Normandy kinda blew that out of the water) then it seems a mistake to have put that scene in.

And it ruined my whole view that maybe the Geth and EDI would die, but at least I would go down with them. If Shepard survives and they don't I am going to be ticked. Ticked I say.

[KitaSaturnyne]

edisnooM wrote...

It helps to stick to bronze when starting with a new character, otherwise you will probably get killed easily.

The breath scene is odd, it is technically the most difficult ending to get, so my gamer mentality says its the "Best", however BioWare said you wouldn't need multiplayer to get the best ending, and Mike Gamble seemed to think that meant Synthesis. 

I will say that the rubble Shepard is lying in does look reminiscent of concrete and rebar, so it does lean to looking like it's on Earth (other people claim to see a Mako wheel, though I haven't personally). Also how Shepard could have survived an explosion on the top of the Citadel, not to mention the Citadel blowing up rather spectacularly, is beyond me.

Overall I have no idea what BioWare intended with it, if they wanted the endings to be taken at face value and work logically (though the Normandy kinda blew that out of the water) then it seems a mistake to have put that scene in.

Stuck to bronze. No luck.

edisnooM wrote...

And it ruined my whole view that maybe the Geth and EDI would die, but
at least I would go down with them. If Shepard survives and they don't I
am going to be ticked. Ticked I say.

[edisnooM]

KitaSaturnyne wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

I agree completely. I loved that conversation. I loved Sovereign as a villain. I loved Harbinger as the heir to sovereigns throne as head villain (THIS HURTS YOU). Then the Catalyst goes and negates all of it.

"Oh Sovereign? Yeah, he was my solution. I programmed him to save organic life from itself. Stupid Organics, always trying to obliterate itself. It's a shame you killed him, he was serving a function vital to the continuance of organic life. You're just a nuisance. Now, thanks to you we need a new solution. So what's it going to be? Red, Green, or Blue?"

Harbinger: THIS HURTS YOU.
Wife: That's it. Get off me.

Really, if you have certain mental disposition (which I'm sure none of us do), you could read some pretty creepy insinuations from Harbingers lines. 

[Hawk227]

edisnooM wrote...


The breath scene is odd, it is technically the most difficult ending to get, so my gamer mentality says its the "Best", however BioWare said you wouldn't need multiplayer to get the best ending, and Mike Gamble seemed to think that meant Synthesis. 

I will say that the rubble Shepard is lying in does look reminiscent of concrete and rebar, so it does lean to looking like it's on Earth (other people claim to see a Mako wheel, though I haven't personally). Also how Shepard could have survived an explosion on the top of the Citadel, not to mention the Citadel blowing up rather spectacularly, is beyond me.

Overall I have no idea what BioWare intended with it, if they wanted the endings to be taken at face value and work logically (though the Normandy kinda blew that out of the water) then it seems a mistake to have put that scene in.

And it ruined my whole view that maybe the Geth and EDI would die, but at least I would go down with them. If Shepard survives and they don't I am going to be ticked. Ticked I say.

I think the breath scene is the single biggest reason IT exists. People saw it and said "why does Shepard only live in Destroy? Wait, how could he live at all?" The Presidium explosion is somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 megatons of TNT (equal to the largest Nuke ever tested). It's beyond impossible for Shepard to have survived it. So if it was meant to be on the Citadel, then Bioware screwed up. It can only be logically justified with IT, in my opinion.

For what it's worth, here's the alledged Mako tire.

[KitaSaturnyne]

Hawk227 wrote...

I think the breath scene is the single biggest reason IT exists. People saw it and said "why does Shepard only live in Destroy? Wait, how could he live at all?" The Presidium explosion is somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 megatons of TNT (equal to the largest Nuke ever tested). It's beyond impossible for Shepard to have survived it. So if it was meant to be on the Citadel, then Bioware screwed up. It can only be logically justified with IT, in my opinion.

For what it's worth, here's the alledged Mako tire.

Is the breath scene only possible with Destroy? You can't get it with Control or Synthesis at all?

[edisnooM]

KitaSaturnyne wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

I think the breath scene is the single biggest reason IT exists. People saw it and said "why does Shepard only live in Destroy? Wait, how could he live at all?" The Presidium explosion is somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 megatons of TNT (equal to the largest Nuke ever tested). It's beyond impossible for Shepard to have survived it. So if it was meant to be on the Citadel, then Bioware screwed up. It can only be logically justified with IT, in my opinion.

For what it's worth, here's the alledged Mako tire.

Is the breath scene only possible with Destroy? You can't get it with Control or Synthesis at all?

Nope, only Destroy with I think 5000+ EMS.

[Hawk227]

edisnooM wrote...

KitaSaturnyne wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

I think the breath scene is the single biggest reason IT exists. People saw it and said "why does Shepard only live in Destroy? Wait, how could he live at all?" The Presidium explosion is somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 megatons of TNT (equal to the largest Nuke ever tested). It's beyond impossible for Shepard to have survived it. So if it was meant to be on the Citadel, then Bioware screwed up. It can only be logically justified with IT, in my opinion.

For what it's worth, here's the alledged Mako tire.

Is the breath scene only possible with Destroy? You can't get it with Control or Synthesis at all?

Nope, only Destroy with I think 5000+ EMS.

4000 EMS if you save Anderson. 5000 EMS if you don't.

[edisnooM]

Hawk227 wrote...

edisnooM wrote...

KitaSaturnyne wrote...

Hawk227 wrote...

I think the breath scene is the single biggest reason IT exists. People saw it and said "why does Shepard only live in Destroy? Wait, how could he live at all?" The Presidium explosion is somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 megatons of TNT (equal to the largest Nuke ever tested). It's beyond impossible for Shepard to have survived it. So if it was meant to be on the Citadel, then Bioware screwed up. It can only be logically justified with IT, in my opinion.

For what it's worth, here's the alledged Mako tire.

Is the breath scene only possible with Destroy? You can't get it with Control or Synthesis at all?

Nope, only Destroy with I think 5000+ EMS.

4000 EMS if you save Anderson. 5000 EMS if you don't.

Huh, that would explain why I see people saying both numbers, but I tend to err on the side of caution. Good to know though.

[KitaSaturnyne]

edisnooM wrote...

Nope, only Destroy with I think 5000+ EMS.

Then what the heck is the point of the scene at all? If it's a perk for those who play multiplayer, it seems like a really lame gift for all those extra EMS points. It's like the Sunset Sasaparilla contest from Fallout: New Vegas, where the prize for collecting special bottle caps was hearing the history of a soft drink from a creepy cowboy dummy.

5000? Yikes. The highest I was able to do was 3610.

[delta_vee]

MrAtomica wrote...

I am Commander Shepard. I refuse to die with a whimper. My final words are not "I don't know..."

I swear I will resurrect the hated <blink> tag to ensure these words are seen far and bloody well wide.

However, in light of the lack of evidence, and in light of all that we accompished regarding the evolution of synthetic life throughout the series, I care little for any attempt at justification. As living beings - free living beings, in both mind and body - we value our right to live. We value it so highly that we are willing to we are willing to defy the "gods" themselves to preserve it. History has shown that some of us are even willing to give up our own lives for the sake of others. This is our choice. We choose to live. For the love of all that is holy, do not force me to lie down and die without cause, on the whim of my mortal foe. If I am to accept my demise, there must be something tangible gained. Do not conclude my story with the potential for my actions to be seen as more monstrous than the enemy I am fighting. Failing that, do not expect me to shower such a travesty with praise.

And you call me erudite. Look to yourself first, friend, before casting any such spurious accusations in my direction.

One last thing. I loved the conversation with Sovereign on Virmire. It was cheesy and less than original, certainly, but something about the presentation of it really resonated with me. Must have been the voice.

Agreed in full. The voice, and that one line which so completely encapsulated everything the Reapers were supposed to be:

"You exist because we allow it, and you will die because we demand it."

We needed nothing more than this, for all the myriad reasons you state.

In fact, they should have known all of this themselves.

Here's an even better question: why did the game not simply end with the death of Anderson? That was one of the most emotionally powerful moments in the game (even more powerful if you've seen heard the extended version of it), and all its impact was sucked out by that damnable elevator appearing out of nowhere.

This is the kicker. The question which drives us mad by the mere asking of it. They had all the tools spread before them, glistening in the light, and instead they insisted on adding something which had no reason to be there.

This, at least, is truly beyond our comprehension.

@drayfish:

I must confess to heresy:

I did not feed the fish. It did not occur to me that a twenty-second century fishtank would require manual intervention. The fish I bought in one splurge on the Citadel were dead after merely a mission.

And I did not care.

Modifié par delta_vee, 13 mai 2012 - 03:46 .

[edisnooM]

KitaSaturnyne wrote...

edisnooM wrote...

Nope, only Destroy with I think 5000+ EMS.

Then what the heck is the point of the scene at all? If it's a perk for those who play multiplayer, it seems like a really lame gift for all those extra EMS points. It's like the Sunset Sasaparilla contest from Fallout: New Vegas, where the prize for collecting special bottle caps was hearing the history of a soft drink from a creepy cowboy dummy.

5000? Yikes. The highest I was able to do was 3610.

Actually I think you can get a pretty decent laser pistol from a locked room in the Sunset Sasaparilla building. I haven't played in a while so the specifics elude me.

And yeah I think 3610 is about as high as you get through single player alone. Not sure though, does importing a ME3 character affect anything EMS wise?

[delta_vee]

KitaSaturnyne wrote...

edisnooM wrote...

Nope, only Destroy with I think 5000+ EMS.

Then what the heck is the point of the scene at all? If it's a perk for those who play multiplayer, it seems like a really lame gift for all those extra EMS points. It's like the Sunset Sasaparilla contest from Fallout: New Vegas, where the prize for collecting special bottle caps was hearing the history of a soft drink from a creepy cowboy dummy.

5000? Yikes. The highest I was able to do was 3610.

It's literally impossible without multiplayer. It's an easter egg; nothing more than a hint to breed their precious speculation.

@MrFob:

We enjoy it when you stop by. Please, feel free to do so more often.

[KitaSaturnyne]

edisnooM wrote...

Actually I think you can get a pretty decent laser pistol from a locked room in the Sunset Sasaparilla building. I haven't played in a while so the specifics elude me.

And yeah I think 3610 is about as high as you get through single player alone. Not sure though, does importing a ME3 character affect anything EMS wise?

You do indeed get a spectacular laser pistol in the Sunset building ruins, called "Pew Pew". I was referring to the original prize from the pre-great-war contest, though. Kids were to collect 50 star bottle caps and win a chance to visit the Sunset office and listen to the creepy dummy (I'm phobic of such things) tell them the history of the Sasaparilla. The kids complained, so the company added in the bonus of a little sheriff's badge, many of which you find in your post-war explorations.

That almost parallels the issue regarding ME3's ending, doesn't it?

[edisnooM]

KitaSaturnyne wrote...

edisnooM wrote...

Actually I think you can get a pretty decent laser pistol from a locked room in the Sunset Sasaparilla building. I haven't played in a while so the specifics elude me.

And yeah I think 3610 is about as high as you get through single player alone. Not sure though, does importing a ME3 character affect anything EMS wise?

You do indeed get a spectacular laser pistol in the Sunset building ruins, called "Pew Pew". I was referring to the original prize from the pre-great-war contest, though. Kids were to collect 50 star bottle caps and win a chance to visit the Sunset office and listen to the creepy dummy (I'm phobic of such things) tell them the history of the Sasaparilla. The kids complained, so the company added in the bonus of a little sheriff's badge, many of which you find in your post-war explorations.

That almost parallels the issue regarding ME3's ending, doesn't it?

It does seem a cautionary tale that BioWare should have paid attention to.

[MrFob]

As for the villains: Souvereign I loved as well. The voice, the dialogue, the mystique. Everything about it was perfect.
Harbinger was already a step down IMO. It already shows in the discusions of the ME2 forums where he would be called Harby. No one would have dared to give Sovereign a cuttly pet name . In all seriousness though, Sovereign was unknowable and - since it acted mostly through Saren - even untouchable until the very end.
Harbinger already had the problem that it had a rather simple and clear cut goal. The bigger problem however was that we do not only defeat him once but we defeat him over and over throughout the game. Granted, it's only his puppets we defeat but since that is the best he seems to be able to do, it's still quite pathetic. Especially if you combine it with his 8th grade school court level insults."THIS HURTS Y..." - oh sorry, already warped you into oblivion - again!
Much of the powerful image of the reapers vanished there for me and the conversation in Arrival didn't make it much better.
In explaining a lot about what the reapers were all about in ME2 (with the harvesting and the building of the new reaper) BW already took away a lot of the mystique that was so important.
I was sceptical when I heard that they wanted to go further into the reapers motivations and reasons in ME3 but I never would have guessed how much they would screw this up.
Not only did they fully disclose the reaper's purpose, they also used a very weak argument and they didn't present it very well. Even worse, they disclosed the reapers as minions of an entity that itself doesn't seem to have a clue as to why it is really doing what it is doing.

The thing is that IMO, you could even have given the reapers a reason. In that case, you have to use it as the ultimate plot twist, as it would have been done in the dark energy ending. If in the end, the player and the main character can question everything they have done after they learn the reason, than the turning point has an impact.
The way things were done however, the disclosure of the reaper's motivation just weakens and demeans them in the most crucial moment of their story.

[Fapmaster5000]

MrAtomica wrote...
...
When speaking to the physical representation of the Catalyst (Why oh why did it have to be a totally forgettable child, of all things? Couldn't one of our dead friends have better served the purpose here?)
...

As much as it HURTS ME to snip out parts of this thread, I have to boil down this minor point from theory into framed execution. 

This mechanic would have been simple to carry out, and made the finale, flawed as it was, so much more potent.  In conversation, Liara asks Shepard which deaths are riding hard on him/her.  Shep can say "all of them" or "the Virmire casualty".  This could have been rolled out into a list of dead squad members, and whichever ally the player chose as the death that hurt the most... *poof*, instant drama when that person is the form of the Catalyst.

Now, suddenly, there's pathos in the final scene instead of the End-O-Tron, and it's always spot on, since the player chose the knife that would strike the truest.

All in all, not much of  a point compared to much of what's been said here, but it just strikes me that even the little things like this were missed.

Modifié par Fapmaster5000, 13 mai 2012 - 04:21 .

[delta_vee]

MrFob wrote...

The thing is that IMO, you could even have given the reapers a reason. In that case, you have to use it as the ultimate plot twist, as it would have been done in the dark energy ending. If in the end, the player and the main character can question everything they have done after they learn the reason, than the turning point has an impact.
The way things were done however, the disclosure of the reaper's motivation just weakens and demeans them in the most crucial moment of their story.

The problem lies in how absolute and horrific the Reapers had been built up as. They are the destroyers. They are the whirlwind incarnate. They make the Imperium of Man look just and reasonable by comparison.

The Berserkers of Fred Saberhagen's eponymous works, which were one of the primary inspirations for the Reapers, were simply weapons left over from a billion-year-old war, bent on the extermination of all life. The Inhibitors of Alistair Reynolds' Revelation Space were given a purpose, but it was sufficiently esoteric and incomprehensible that they remained perfectly suited to the ultimate-villain role.

Note that in both cases, at no point did either author attempt to make the audience sympathize with them.

[delta_vee]

Fapmaster5000 wrote...

This mechanic would have been simple to carry out, and made the finale, flawed as it was, so much more potent.  In conversation, Liara asks Shepard which deaths are riding hard on him/her.  Shep can say "all of them" or "the Virmire casualty".  This could have been rolled out into a list of dead squad members, and whichever ally the player chose as the death that hurt the most... *poof*, instant drama when that person is the form of the Catalyst.

Now, suddenly, there's pathos in the final scene instead of the End-O-Tron, and it's always spot on, since the player chose the knife that would strike the truest.

All in all, not much of  a point compared to much of what's been said here, but it just strikes me that even the little things like this were missed.

Yep. So many opportunities missed, piled upon each other like the corpses in the Citadel. Even given my previously-expressed indecision about the critical rigor of holding Bioware to account for what they didn't do, there are far too many examples.

[Fapmaster5000]

delta_vee wrote...

Fapmaster5000 wrote...

This mechanic would have been simple to carry out, and made the finale, flawed as it was, so much more potent.  In conversation, Liara asks Shepard which deaths are riding hard on him/her.  Shep can say "all of them" or "the Virmire casualty".  This could have been rolled out into a list of dead squad members, and whichever ally the player chose as the death that hurt the most... *poof*, instant drama when that person is the form of the Catalyst.

Now, suddenly, there's pathos in the final scene instead of the End-O-Tron, and it's always spot on, since the player chose the knife that would strike the truest.

All in all, not much of  a point compared to much of what's been said here, but it just strikes me that even the little things like this were missed.

Yep. So many opportunities missed, piled upon each other like the corpses in the Citadel. Even given my previously-expressed indecision about the critical rigor of holding Bioware to account for what they didn't do, there are far too many examples.

I did read that post (I've been lurking this thread for a while now.) and I must say, there is a point where the line is crossed from "holding them accountable for what they didn't do" and "producing a work below the par they've established".  We hold authors to account based on previous books, and directors on previous films, why shouldn't we hold game developers to the same standard?

To put it straight, I have a pretty critical eye for fiction, but I'm no professional, and most of the time, I go into a work looking to enjoy it, on its terms.  Rarely ever do I finish one of those works, sit down, and immediately turn to "this went wrong here, here, here, and here" or "this would have functioned better in this way".  If asked, I could pick something apart, but I do not feel the need to as an instinctual response.

Perhaps it's to Bioware's credit that I was so invested, and so thoroughly comitted, in their universe, that when the wheels fell off, I didn't bemoan the crash, I started looking for faults and checking the records of the mechanics who were involved in the last rotation.  On the other hand, few works that I've enjoyed so thoroughly have broken apart on so many levels, so suddenly, so comprehensively, and without warning, as this one.  I've seen train wrecks, but always more telegraphed.  I've seen plane crashes, but never with such glorious flight before the fall.

This was... something else, entirely.  The Hindenburg, perhaps?  Loaded with potential disasters, filled with hydrogen and painted with thermite, just waiting for the errant spark to being it down? 

-No point here, just thoughts.

[delta_vee]

Fapmaster5000 wrote...

To put it straight, I have a pretty critical eye for fiction, but I'm no professional, and most of the time, I go into a work looking to enjoy it, on its terms.  Rarely ever do I finish one of those works, sit down, and immediately turn to "this went wrong here, here, here, and here" or "this would have functioned better in this way".  If asked, I could pick something apart, but I do not feel the need to as an instinctual response.

I agree wholeheartedly. In fact, to Bioware's credit, I was entirely willing to not only overlook but defend the flaws of ME 1 and 2 - at the time. And during my barrelling through of ME3, while the faults piled up in the back of my mind, rarely did I stop to count them. (Except for the Citadel coup mission. That was one long facepalm. And the intro, but we've been over that.)

This was... something else, entirely.  The Hindenburg, perhaps?  Loaded with potential disasters, filled with hydrogen and painted with thermite, just waiting for the errant spark to being it down?

From where I stand, looking at the wreckage, I would agree. The game was full to the brim with disappointments large and small, both what was actively done wrong to merely passively not done as well as could have been. Perhaps it's another example of Prometheus and Epimetheus, but still, the basic design of the hull and the fundamental choice of lifting gas was ill-considered.

Modifié par delta_vee, 13 mai 2012 - 05:00 .

[MrFob]

delta_vee wrote...

MrFob wrote...

The thing is that IMO, you could even have given the reapers a reason. In that case, you have to use it as the ultimate plot twist, as it would have been done in the dark energy ending. If in the end, the player and the main character can question everything they have done after they learn the reason, than the turning point has an impact.
The way things were done however, the disclosure of the reaper's motivation just weakens and demeans them in the most crucial moment of their story.

The problem lies in how absolute and horrific the Reapers had been built up as. They are the destroyers. They are the whirlwind incarnate. They make the Imperium of Man look just and reasonable by comparison.

The Berserkers of Fred Saberhagen's eponymous works, which were one of the primary inspirations for the Reapers, were simply weapons left over from a billion-year-old war, bent on the extermination of all life. The Inhibitors of Alistair Reynolds' Revelation Space were given a purpose, but it was sufficiently esoteric and incomprehensible that they remained perfectly suited to the ultimate-villain role.

Note that in both cases, at no point did either author attempt to make the audience sympathize with them.

I think the build-up can actually be a point that works in favour of the plot twist.
The beauty of the dark energy ending IMO was that even though their reasons can be justified in the larger context, you still do not sympathise with them, you merely get some grasp of the necessity.
What the reapers do and have done is still horrific and even if you would ultimately choose their side, you would still despise yourself or doing it.
Achieving this balance is admittedly extremely difficult and it will probably not work for everyone because part of this is always very subjective but if you can pull it off, I think it would make for a very interesting dilemma in the final choice, one that would be discussed in these very forums until three days after the apocalypse.

BW already did something similar (although to a lesser extent) with Cerberus in ME2. They were built up as horribly immoral in EM1 and actually stayed that way in ME2 but they had that one cause that just made too much sense to ignore. Most people till hated them but look how that already polarised the community, how it triggered arguments and discussion. Unfortunately the back-pedalled in ME3 but the potential is there.

The problem in the endings we got is that the reasons don't really change much. There is no urgency, no real problem and the choices we are given don't solve anything wither.
If you are not going for a very engaging plot twist (and an according choice) in the end, then I agree, the reapers should rather stay mysterious and beyond our comprehension.

[delta_vee]

MrFob wrote...

I think the build-up can actually be a point that works in favour of the plot twist.
The beauty of the dark energy ending IMO was that even though their reasons can be justified in the larger context, you still do not sympathise with them, you merely get some grasp of the necessity.

This requires a two-pronged approach, and timing is critical.

To grasp the necessity, you have to establish the legitimacy of the larger threat early and often. Not in an obvious manner, of course - but when you reach the fulcrum, the player has to be able to look back and say "yes, that makes sense". If they'd carried the dark energy plotline through ME3 properly, they might have stood a chance, but the only real mention of it is in the Crucible codex entries. As it stands, with the paucity of discussion throughout ME3, it would still appear seemingly out of nowhere.

The harder part, and the most crucial, is that whatever horrific thing you're asking the player to accept as a necessary solution must be impervious to all but the most dedicated of criticism. It absolutely cannot produce a reaction of bewilderment or befuddlement in the player, and it must withstand the majority of questions the player is likely to ask (and, given the dialogue wheel, the player will want to ask these things through Shepard). This is where the dark energy plot fails, miserably. Turning humans to jelly is viscerally repulsive - and makes little sense as it is - so to think that this would somehow stave off a galaxy's worth of supernovas is ridiculous enough that few would even consider it, much less accept it. Certainly not at the expense of the characters they've spent three games growing to love.

If Mass Effect wishes so badly to be grimdark, then we should take 40K is an acceptable comparison. And in 40K, the Imperium commits so many atrocities they've lost track of them - but the enemies against which Exterminatus is employed are convincingly threatening, and despite the terrible cost the necessity is clear. Dark energy might have achieved the former, but has such a steep uphill climb to achieve the latter that I doubt it could possibly succeed. I suspect Bioware agreed, which is why it was dropped.

Why they thought this would suffice in its stead I will likely never understand.

Modifié par delta_vee, 13 mai 2012 - 05:45 .

[KitaSaturnyne]

delta_vee wrote...

The harder part, and the most crucial, is that whatever horrific thing you're asking the player to accept as a necessary solution must be impervious to all but the most dedicated of criticism. It absolutely cannot produce a reaction of bewilderment or befuddlement in the player, and it must withstand the majority of questions the player is likely to ask (and, given the dialogue wheel, the player will want to ask these things through Shepard). This is where the dark energy plot fails, miserably. Turning humans to jelly is viscerally repulsive - and makes little sense as it is - so to think that this would somehow stave off a galaxy's worth of supernovas is ridiculous enough that few would even consider it, much less accept it. Certainly not at the expense of the characters they've spent three games growing to love.

For reasons unexplained, they were building a Reaper in the shape of a human. Did I miss the reason why on this one? What exactly was this 20-storey-human supposed to do, especially since the 'dark energy' plot was dropped? For that matter, how was it supposed to travel through space? I just picture this giant naked robot swimming between planets.

Incidentally, a narrative centering around a Reaper born with a human shape and disposition (birth, sensation, emotion, education, existential angst and self actualization) would be supremely interesting to me.

However, it would probably incite mass space penis envy.

Modifié par KitaSaturnyne, 13 mai 2012 - 05:56 .

[edisnooM]

KitaSaturnyne wrote...

delta_vee wrote...

The harder part, and the most crucial, is that whatever horrific thing you're asking the player to accept as a necessary solution must be impervious to all but the most dedicated of criticism. It absolutely cannot produce a reaction of bewilderment or befuddlement in the player, and it must withstand the majority of questions the player is likely to ask (and, given the dialogue wheel, the player will want to ask these things through Shepard). This is where the dark energy plot fails, miserably. Turning humans to jelly is viscerally repulsive - and makes little sense as it is - so to think that this would somehow stave off a galaxy's worth of supernovas is ridiculous enough that few would even consider it, much less accept it. Certainly not at the expense of the characters they've spent three games growing to love.

For reasons unexplained, they were building a Reaper in the shape of a human. Did I miss the reason why on this one? What exactly was this 20-storey-human supposed to do, especially since the 'dark energy' plot was dropped? For that matter, how was it supposed to travel through space? I just picture this giant naked robot swimming between planets.

Incidentally, a narrative centering around a Reaper born with a human shape and disposition (birth, sensation, emotion, education, existential angst and self actualization) would be supremely interesting to me.

However, it would probably incite mass space penis envy.

Well supposedly the Reaper takes the form of the species from which it is made, that's what they said in ME2 anyway. However BioWare then stated that it was actually the core of the Reaper that looks like the species. But the core of the derelict Reaper didn't really look like much so I don't know.

Modifié par edisnooM, 13 mai 2012 - 06:03 .

[Galifreya]

KitaSaturnyne wrote...

edisnooM wrote...

Nope, only Destroy with I think 5000+ EMS.

Then what the heck is the point of the scene at all? If it's a perk for those who play multiplayer, it seems like a really lame gift for all those extra EMS points. It's like the Sunset Sasaparilla contest from Fallout: New Vegas, where the prize for collecting special bottle caps was hearing the history of a soft drink from a creepy cowboy dummy.

5000? Yikes. The highest I was able to do was 3610.

It's 4,000. My second play-through I had just over 4K EMS, and I saw the breath scene. You can get it by just playing an hour or two of the MP.