104 réponses à ce sujet

[Stardusk]

Distilled Poison wrote...

"Kudos bro. I like it when people rock a class that everybody else looks down upon. I can relate bro. I rock the Krogan Soldier hard myself. Nothing more scarier than a Smart Krogan. *Rolls*" 

Two uses of the word "bro" and one use of the phrase "more scarier" in only five sentences. That takes talent.

Prescriptivism vs. descriptivism

[Zenning]

peddroelmz wrote...

nice videos

Have you tested regular melee attack damage with this build ? It should still do tons of damage (1 hit cerb troops on gold perhaps ? (too lazy to do the math ) ) and have a much shorter animation time than the heavy attack ...

So, the light melee does 200 per hit, and hit's 4 times (The final swing hit's twice) doing 800 damage total.  The heavy melee does 1000 per hit.  Once fully maxed for damage at 235% melee increase, you're doing a difference between 670 damage total.   Seeing as how the Heavy melee is slightly faster than the light melee combo, if you need the three hit combo to kill an enemy, the heavy melee is better (Unless of course, you're using it's ability to hit multiple enemies at once).

A 3 hit combo will not insta shot a phantom from near full hp (About 3 bars down), while the heavy melee will, and you actually leave your self more open with the heavy melee (What, with not getting the damage reduction you get for the heavy melee).

So yeah. Heavy melee is pretty much better for damage, but when facing weakend mooks, it's still a good time to usual regular melee.

[Stardusk]

Zenning wrote...

peddroelmz wrote...

nice videos

Have you tested regular melee attack damage with this build ? It should still do tons of damage (1 hit cerb troops on gold perhaps ? (too lazy to do the math ) ) and have a much shorter animation time than the heavy attack ...

So, the light melee does 200 per hit, and hit's 4 times (The final swing hit's twice) doing 800 damage total.  The heavy melee does 1000 per hit.  Once fully maxed for damage at 235% melee increase, you're doing a difference between 670 damage total.   Seeing as how the Heavy melee is slightly faster than the light melee combo, if you need the three hit combo to kill an enemy, the heavy melee is better (Unless of course, you're using it's ability to hit multiple enemies at once).

A 3 hit combo will not insta shot a phantom from near full hp (About 3 bars down), while the heavy melee will, and you actually leave your self more open with the heavy melee (What, with not getting the damage reduction you get for the heavy melee).

So yeah. Heavy melee is pretty much better for damage, but when facing weakend mooks, it's still a good time to usual regular melee.

One reason to almost always prefer heavy melee over regular is the 75% post heavy melee melee bonus for 30 seconds and the 25% weapon damage bonus for 20 seconds. Regular gives you neither.

[Zenning]

Dresden867 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

RamsenC wrote...

The melee stuff was cool, but you would have been better off with fitness speced for health. You were at your most effective with just blades and shotgun headshots.

No, then we could not have punched phantoms to death.

I assume Phantoms have much higher HP/Barrier on gold then? I'm doing blades/onepunch on Silver Phantoms with just three points in Fitness. (Though I could admittedly respec out inferno grenade for more points)

On Silver Phantom's have 1575 Barrier, and 1125 hp.  For a grand total of 2700 hp.  A Heavy melee when maxed out does about 3250. More than enough to kill em without any help.  The light Melee however only does 2680, just under the amount needed to kill em unassisted.

On Gold killing phantom's is impossible to do without assist, but in general that help comes fromt he blades. Phantom's have 2362.5 shield and 1687.5 hp.  Thats a total 4050 hp.  With the 1200 damage that you can get from Blades + and the 3250 Heavy melee, you get a total of 4450 damage before the explsion add's an extra 500, for a grand total of the 4950.

With the regular melee combo you do 2680, add that in with the exploding blades, and that's 3800, + 500 after the explosions. For a grand total of 4300, just enough to kill em.

The main issue is of course, blades loses damage very, VERY, quickly to range, to the point where you're really only doing 600, to 800 damage when not point blank.  That won't kill em with the light melee, but will have no problem destroying em with the heavy melee.

So err.. Yeah, have fun with this stuff.

I should really be sleeping rather then doing math shouldn't I?

Modifié par Zenning, 16 avril 2012 - 10:29 .

[peddroelm]

you should just test this ... start a gold game and just do a normal melee vs a cerberus trooper ...

I know for certain the melee bonus from the blade attachment doesn't just add with the other modifiers - it multiplies them ...only bioware knows at this point how the other bonuses add up ..

--------
Start a gold game vs cerberus and do a normal melee vs a cerb trooper - see if it dies ...

[Zenning]

peddroelmz wrote...

you should just test this ... start a gold game and just do a normal melee vs a cerberus trooper ...

I know for certain the melee bonus from the blade attachment doesn't just add with the other modifiers - it multiplies them ...only bioware knows at this point how the other bonuses add up ..

--------
Start a gold game vs cerberus and do a normal melee vs a cerb trooper - see if it dies ...

It does seem to multiply em.  But that info I found is supported by emprical data that we've found in game too.

[snfonseka]

I'll give this build a try.

[Zenning]

peddroelmz wrote...

you should just test this ... start a gold game and just do a normal melee vs a cerberus trooper ...

I know for certain the melee bonus from the blade attachment doesn't just add with the other modifiers - it multiplies them ...only bioware knows at this point how the other bonuses add up ..

--------
Start a gold game vs cerberus and do a normal melee vs a cerb trooper - see if it dies ...

It does die by the way.  The Second hit kills em after the 75% bonus.  Centurians takes the third hit (Which hit's twice) to kill)

[VTiiiiiiiiii]

Helpful and descriptive post - and a good video of gameplay, got to love a bit of Survivor too!

*Tips hat to OP*

[Ferretinabun]

Nice vid.

I actually love the Batarian soldier - but on the higher difficulties. On bronze my teammates have a nasty habit of stealing my kills while I run around trying to get close.

Actually I got the Turian soldier at the weekend too and that rocked as well. Think soldier might be my new favourite class. Here's hoping I get the Krogan before too long...

[RamsenC]

The melee is definitely nice for phantoms, but I don't see it being super useful for other factions. Anything good against phantoms is probably worth it though. 

Graal is underrated, feels like no one really uses it. It's harder to use than the GPS, but it can get headshots and laughs at shield gate.

Modifié par RamsenC, 16 avril 2012 - 11:08 .

[Stardusk]

RamsenC wrote...

The melee is definitely nice for phantoms, but I don't see it being super useful for other factions. Anything good against phantoms is probably worth it though. 

Graal is underrated. It's harder to use than the GPS, but it can get headshots and laughs at shield gate.

Absolutely. If you watch even my Krogan Videos, for range, accuracy and consistent headshots, the Graal is superior. Also, as I mentioned by going melee you enchance both weapon and melee damage. Very good imo. Batarians are also great against Reapers, have tested it. Brutes kill themselves charging at you for example. Batarians have the hardest time with Geth because of stunning but can be good against them too.

[Stardusk]

Updated. 2 Man vid is up.

[Stardusk]

RamsenC wrote...

The melee is definitely nice for phantoms, but I don't see it being super useful for other factions. Anything good against phantoms is probably worth it though. 

Graal is underrated, feels like no one really uses it. It's harder to use than the GPS, but it can get headshots and laughs at shield gate.

Also, people don't use the Graal because it is harder to use than the GPS. People like easy peasy and rather than dealing with the steeper learning curve of the Graal and thus be more effective overall. The Graal is effective at any range and you can OSOK more easily because of headshots. People don't use the Graal because it is hard to use and takes practice not because it is bad.

[Lexa_D]

Zenning wrote...


A 3 hit combo will not insta shot a phantom from near full hp (About 3 bars down), while the heavy melee will, and you actually leave your self more open with the heavy melee (What, with not getting the damage reduction you get for the heavy melee).

Is this even official - about HM damage reduction? In the Batarian Soldier Guide video, 02:05-02:07 he gets it pretty rough from a simple gunfire.

[Wheatax]

Great video. It's nice to see Batarian soldier getting some love. Will try this out when I have the chance. Is the Graal latency dependant too like the GPS? I tried it once and had lag, it didn't hit anything at all when in fact I did hit the enemy.

[Stardusk]

Drotter wrote...

Great video. It's nice to see Batarian soldier getting some love. Will try this out when I have the chance. Is the Graal latency dependant too like the GPS? I tried it once and had lag, it didn't hit anything at all when in fact I did hit the enemy.

Yes, it can lag but Zenning still made good use of it. I was hosting.

[No Snakes Alive]

I'm assuming since Zenning goes for weight reduction in the Batarian Enforcer skill upgrades he takes Damage Reduction over Power Recharge for the 6th rank of Blade Armor, whereas you need Power Recharge since you go for weapon damage?

[Stardusk]

No Snakes Alive wrote...

I'm assuming since Zenning goes for weight reduction in the Batarian Enforcer skill upgrades he takes Damage Reduction over Power Recharge for the 6th rank of Blade Armor, whereas you need Power Recharge since you go for weapon damage?

I think so. I went for the CD bonus, yes.

[EvilDeity]

What do you do to slide over cover instead of vaulting when not sprinting? Trying to figure out if I can replicate this move on Xbox.

[Babydel]

I am running;

Ballistic Blades: 6/6 (Damage (I am a sucker for things that say damage :/), Range, Explosive Blades)
Blade Armour: 0/6
Inferno Grenade: 6/6 (Damage, Damage, Armour Damage)
Batarian Enforcer: 6/6 (Damage & Capacity, Headshot, Snipers & Shotguns)
Fitness: 6/6 (Melee Damage, Martial Artist, Melee Synergy)

At the moment. Reason for no Blade Armour and weight perks is because I love using my Claymore, it may be out performed by Graal and GPS is some ways, but I just love the feel of it, so I want shorter CD on Blades as possible. I find I do very well on Gold with damage output and crowd control for my squisher friends, though I will probably try your build with my Graal when I next get a reset card (I don't do promoting).

You mention the GPS having a bigger spread and being less accurate in your video, as long as you can get the ability 'lock on' (when you can see the health bar etc.) then the GPS pellets will seek the target to an extent, doing massive damage to ranged targets with charged shots. I take massive advantage of this is with my chain overloading, death machine, Geth Engineer.

As for the Batarian heavy melee tracking, it's nuts. I was heavy meleeing a Nemesis when someone overloaded it's shields, which makes them stagger a fair distance, I did a 180 degree turn automatically to get the kill (PC).

Last thing; do you charge the Graal much? It didn't seem like you did and I hardly notice the difference in damage when I do.

[Crimzoneyed]

I would like to see a comparison of bleed vs explosion on close range target and see the damage difference

[stysiaq]

that's really great

I think I'll promote my Batarian to build him for more melee this time.
I was using Blade Armor and Graal anyway, but are really explosive blades better than the other spec?

[RenegadeSpectre]

@Stardusk
Good job mate! Nice guide!

[No Snakes Alive]

Crimzoneyed wrote...

I would like to see a comparison of bleed vs explosion on close range target and see the damage difference

I tried Bleed and was SO unimpressed compared to explode it wasn't even funny. First of all, the explode staggers and causes damage with an AoE. Second of all, the overall (and maybe even initial) damage might be more the other way, but the actual bleed damage itself is so negligible. I found myself facing enemies who were very slowly bleeding out and not about to stagger unless I recast. This, to me is an obvious choice.

Cone over damage on the other hand... After seeing the video of the ridiculous angle you can hit with cone I switched right over but I'm not impressed with actual playtesting. Rarely do I miss a target even without the cone upgrade since I'm almost always facing at least in their general direction, and I actually do miss the damage. I noticed a few enemie with a bar or two of health leftover after a Blades + heavy melee whereas prior to trying the cone upgrade I don't recall leaving anyone left alive.

I'm also torn between cooldown and range. Both are pretty damn helpful and if you can get used to their range without the extending upgrade, improving cooldowns might just be optimal for more blade spam and ensured staggering (nothing sucks harder than having enemies who aren't staggered and no blades to cast at them).

Also, Incendiaries can be helpful CC, so ignoring Blade Armor is a viable alternative, but I wouldn't recommend speccing into both. Tried it and the grenades were too useless without all six ranks plus the armor was lacking without that teeny boost to damage resistance or cooldowns.

I'm personally on the same page as Zenning with my ideal build here: I prefer to focus on the blades over my gun. So my build will PROBABLY look like this as soon as I get another reset, and probably stay for a while:

6 Ballistic Blades: Damage, Cooldown (probably), Explosion
6 Blades Armor: Melee, Melee Returned, Damage Reduction
0 Inferno Nades
6 Batarian Enforcer: Capacity, Power, Weight Reduction
6 Fitness: Melee, Melee, Melee


Now taking Power Recharge on my Blades Armor would lead to even yet more spammable Blades, but I'm thinking DR would be more helpful in the long wrong no matter how slight it may be on Gold, because you can always deactivate the armor for even faster cooldowns anyway.

I keep tweaking this mofo and can't settle on a build but I'm thinking this might be it for me. Wish I could play with you guys. Love how often scrubs kick me from Gold incorrectly assuming I won't whoop more ass than their puny Salarians.

Modifié par No Snakes Alive, 16 avril 2012 - 02:58 .