1392 réponses à ce sujet

[DJBare]

moater boat wrote...
No I remember that, it was in that lame geth propaganda mission. Only that was an adult, so your argument is invalid.

Only an adult?, there ya go kiddies, a lesson for you, it's okay to kill adults but not babies or children, lest we forget those adults probably had children of their own, but I'm sure those children will be forgiving that their own kind killed their parents.

[Terrorize69]

Wth lol Quarians never used chemical weapons.. with thier immune systems? they'd be commiting self-genocide.

If i remeber right the Quarian population was 18billion befoe the morning war, only 17million escaped. Less then 1% of a species, Fair to say that more then 1% of a billion would of been children.

And the Quarians were divided building up to the war, alot of them died protecting Geth. When the Geth stuck back, they classed ALL organics as enemies, even those that had once tried to shelter them.

[GnusmasTHX]

Yeah, the Chemical Warfare against geth and sympathizers is a joke. The sympathizers were a minority, nowhere near enough to warrant specific WMD's.

The geth were also the army of the quarians. It's very likely that when they started the war,they had the numerical (combatant wise) advantage and the greater arsenal. They probably also didn't realize how to conduct a war without genocide until the end. They probably used WMD's indiscriminately when they reached the consensus that they were going to kill the quarians, and then the quarians did the same, or vice versa, it doesn't matter. 

The geth are software competing on a hardware level, nothing warrants the near extinction of the quarians unless they were too stupid to email themselves offworld, or even, once they had the resources, make a giant server-ship and fly off.

Yeah the geth let the quarians "live". So much as I could cut off some guys arms and legs and leave him alive as well.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 16 avril 2012 - 08:13 .

[The Angry One]

moater boat wrote...

Hold on let me get this straight, so we have a war, and on one side we have a bunch of organics, who are affected by chemical weapons, and on the other side we have synthetics, who are obviously NOT affected by chemical weapons, and in between them we have another group of organics shouting "can't we all just get along?" Then the Organic side uses weapons that will harm the pacifists and themselves, but leave their main enemy untouched?

How does that make any sense. When I read between the lines, I see Geth getting control of weapons that they can use indiscriminately to destroy their enemies with no risk to themselves. Normally you have some pretty well thought out answers, but you really dropped the ball on this one.

We know Quarians sided with the Geth against their oppressive authorities.
How many did in the end? Thousands? Hundreds of thousands? Millions? We don't know, but the possibility is there. In fact, given the belligenerence of the Quarian authorities to this day, it's likely.

[Elyiia]

The Geth were never made to be kill-bots, they don't understand the concept of prisoners.
Also if I was a betting man I would put money on the majority of civilian casualties being because of Quarians or lost land rather than being executed.

Finally, the war is the Quarians fault. Fact.
It was started by the Quarians. Fact.
It ended when the Quarians stopped attacking/left. Fact.

Every single casualty in the war was the fault of the Quarians, not the Geth.

[moater boat]

Aetika wrote...


No, they are only foolish enough to start war over their homeworld, when there is Reaper invasion 

As far as they knew, the Geth were still working with the Reapers. From their point of view, they were doing more than any other race to combat the reaper threat.

[Flidget]

Meltemph wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

I've often wondered why certain people forgive this so glibly, yet regard the quarian actions as so inconscionably monstrous. I suspect it's got something to do with a person's real life politics.

Who created the Geth?  Who did the geth learn from? It's hard to blame the kid if the parent is a moron.

Seriously, this.

Emotionally the Geth are just children with enormous unresolved daddy issues, which is why they're so eager to welcome the Quarians back the moment the Quarians finally accept them.

[tractrpl]

Guys, guys, the whole thing is just a plot hole, ok? This is something the writers obviously didn't think very far through. Yes, we're supposed to think that the quarians were the initial aggressors and that they sort of brought it on themselves. Yes, this is canonically correct. However, I can say in good confidence that the writers merely didn't think very far through what killing 99.83% of all quarians means.

[GuardianAngel470]

moater boat wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Or the Quarian leadership used chemical weapons to kill the rebels who supported the Geth, inadvertantly poisoning their own world and killing millions due to their belligerence and stupidity.

/thread

I don't remember this in the codex...

She's pointing out your flawed premise. You know that X happened so you assume Y happened despite the fact that you have only circumstantial evidence that Y happened.

Her scenario is just as valid as yours because they both are assumptions without supporting evidence.

Modifié par GuardianAngel470, 16 avril 2012 - 08:12 .

[Seboist]

Neutral Ground wrote...

It's almost as though they didn't think through the geth being any more than boogeymen until ME2.

They didn't think things through on a whole number of things not just the Geth. Another issue with them is that they had absolutely no issues with their Heretic cousins helping Sovereign try to unleash armageddon in ME1.

[moater boat]

DJBare wrote...

moater boat wrote...
No I remember that, it was in that lame geth propaganda mission. Only that was an adult, so your argument is invalid.

Only an adult?, there ya go kiddies, a lesson for you, it's okay to kill adults but not babies or children, lest we forget those adults probably had children of their own, but I'm sure those children will be forgiving that their own kind killed their parents.

If you think killing an innocent baby is the same as killing an enemy in war, you're pretty much a horrible human being. Sorry.

[Gwtheyrn]

It's also possible that weapons of mass-destruction were used by both sides. That would attain such a kill-rate without the necessity of going house-to-house and slaughtering everyone inside.

[Meltemph]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Yeah, the Chemical Warfare against geth and sympathizers is a joke. The sympathizers were a minority, nowhere near enough to warrant specific WMD's.

The geth were also the army of the quarians. It's very likely that when they started the war,they had the numerical (combatant wise) advantage and the greater arsenal. They probably also didn't realize how to conduct a war without genocide until the end.

Yeah the geth let the quarians "live". So much as I could cut off some guys arms and legs and leave him alive as well.

Pure guess work.  Everyone is arguing an unknowable.  what we do know is that the Geth were created from the Quarians and they learned from teh quarians... Sounds to me, like the Quarians were pretty horrible parents.  Again, though, I'm jsut guessing.  Maybe the peopel who created them were jsut royal screw-ups?

[The Angry One]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Yeah, the Chemical Warfare against geth and sympathizers is a joke. The sympathizers were a minority, nowhere near enough to warrant specific WMD's.

Assumption. Mine is an assumption too. But here's the thing: It's all assumption.
However based on Quarian and Geth behaviour, I feel mine is more likely. Yes, the Quarian leadership is that stupid. They have proven this numerous times.

The geth were also the army of the quarians. It's very likely that when they started the war,they had the numerical (combatant wise) advantage and the greater arsenal. They probably also didn't realize how to conduct a war without genocide until the end.

The Geth were largely if not totally domestic, farming and labour units. In the consensus, that's all we ever see.
We also see the Quarian police/army, so clearly those duties were not taken over by the Geth.

Yeah the geth let the quarians "live". So much as I could cut off some guys arms and legs and leave him alive as well.

Assuming that guy attacked you and continued to attack you no matter how many times you tried to hide, run away or talk him down that might be a closer analogy.

[The Angry One]

moater boat wrote...

DJBare wrote...

moater boat wrote...
No I remember that, it was in that lame geth propaganda mission. Only that was an adult, so your argument is invalid.

Only an adult?, there ya go kiddies, a lesson for you, it's okay to kill adults but not babies or children, lest we forget those adults probably had children of their own, but I'm sure those children will be forgiving that their own kind killed their parents.

If you think killing an innocent baby is the same as killing an enemy in war, you're pretty much a horrible human being. Sorry.

a) There was no war yet.
 That man was a civilian. If you don't think there's something wrong with the government murdering an innocent adult exercising his right to protest then there's something very wrong with you, sorry.

[tractrpl]

Elyiia wrote...

The Geth were never made to be kill-bots, they don't understand the concept of prisoners.
Also if I was a betting man I would put money on the majority of civilian casualties being because of Quarians or lost land rather than being executed.

Finally, the war is the Quarians fault. Fact.
It was started by the Quarians. Fact.
It ended when the Quarians stopped attacking/left. Fact.

Every single casualty in the war was the fault of the Quarians, not the Geth.

This doesn't justify killing 99.83% of all quarians. I mean, I'm no peace protestor, I've personally contributed to the deaths of many Taliban, but this is unbelievable.

[The Angry One]

Seboist wrote...

Neutral Ground wrote...

It's almost as though they didn't think through the geth being any more than boogeymen until ME2.

They didn't think things through on a whole number of things not just the Geth. Another issue with them is that they had absolutely no issues with their Heretic cousins helping Sovereign try to unleash armageddon in ME1.

What do you want them to do? Spring from their space and declare that they will help?
Let me remind you that when Legion went to Eden Prime to gather information on what happened, THEY SHOT HIM.

[DJBare]

moater boat wrote...

If you think killing an innocent baby is the same as killing an enemy in war, you're pretty much a horrible human being. Sorry.

"No no, you cannot do this, we need them!, out of the way!, blam!"; funny, I don't seem to remember that particular quarian being armed when the police shot her, some enemy, must have been real frightening for the quarian police.

[Vormaerin]

We also have the idiot quarians throwing their liveships at the Geth in a suicidal assault in ME3 (if you let legion do his thing).Its entirely possible that the Quarians simply continued attacking the geth until they'd taken horrific casualties. There doesn't have to be some kind of systematic Geth genocide to explain the situation.

But, ultimately, we don't know anything about what really happened except that there was martial law and civil war, with the Geth allied to one faction of the quarians and, eventually, the militarist Quarians fled and were not pursued.

[The Angry One]

tractrpl wrote...

This doesn't justify killing 99.83% of all quarians. I mean, I'm no peace protestor, I've personally contributed to the deaths of many Taliban, but this is unbelievable.

I'm sorry, have you bothered to see the scene in ME3 that occurs if you choose to help the Geth without paragading the Quarians?
That right there demonstrates how the Quarians suffered so many deaths against the Geth.

[Ferretinabun]

Neutral Ground wrote...

It's almost as though they didn't think through the geth being any more than boogeymen until ME2.

This.

Lore gets retconned to suit plot. It happens all the time - especially in the ME world.

[The Angry One]

DJBare wrote...

moater boat wrote...

If you think killing an innocent baby is the same as killing an enemy in war, you're pretty much a horrible human being. Sorry.

"No no, you cannot do this, we need them!, out of the way!, blam!"; funny, I don't seem to remember that particular quarian being armed when the police shot her, some enemy, must have been real frightening for the quarian police.

Not to mention the man they blew the hell up with a bomb.

[DJBare]

Geth were not even military at the time, the first geth to pick up a weapon was an agricultural unit.

[tractrpl]

Vormaerin wrote...

We also have the idiot quarians throwing their liveships at the Geth in a suicidal assault in ME3 (if you let legion do his thing).Its entirely possible that the Quarians simply continued attacking the geth until they'd taken horrific casualties. There doesn't have to be some kind of systematic Geth genocide to explain the situation.

But, ultimately, we don't know anything about what really happened except that there was martial law and civil war, with the Geth allied to one faction of the quarians and, eventually, the militarist Quarians fled and were not pursued.

Most societies never have any more than 1-2% of their entire population as being part of their military at any one time. How in the world the geth and the 1% of all quarians managed to kill the other 98% of all living quarians is beyond my comprehension.

[Meltemph]

Ferretinabun wrote...

Neutral Ground wrote...

It's almost as though they didn't think through the geth being any more than boogeymen until ME2.

This.

Lore gets retconned to suit plot. It happens all the time - especially in the ME world.

Eh, they actually hinted at something like this, when you talk with Tali.  you can even defend the geths actions with her, and she gets pissed.  That is in ME1.