1392 réponses à ce sujet

[IanPolaris]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Even if you save them, the StarChild wins.

Legion turning a 180 and embracing Reaper technology and more over uploading it to his entire race?

Geth bonding with quarian suits?

Zha'til all over again. And we know how that ended.

The Zha'til like the Heretics only went bad because of Reaper interference.  Can we say 'self-fulfilling' prophecy.....

-Polaris

[Vormaerin]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

If they had to escape at all, it seems that if they were open to accepting surrender, the geth were at least not advertising it.

That argument makes no sense.  Its like saying that since the Allies had to escape at Dunkirk, the Germans obviously weren't willing to accept their surrender.

[Silpheed58]

I find threads like these humorous because some of the posters and usually the OP have no idea what they are talking about, especially in regards to war. Since these people obviously are not history buffs, don't watch the war specials on the History channel and probably don't read about war; they need to go listen to most of what Javik has to say because just about everything he has to say is true.

Yes we all want to think everything should be as ideal as the outcomes we can produce as Commander Shepard, but guess what, the Commander is the ultimate soldier what he does does not usually happen in war. And if something similar happens it defiantly not on the scale of the miracles he performs.

War is nasty, people do reprehensible things during war, why do you think phrases like "Victory at any cost!" exist. We try to pretty it up with things like war crimes, and BS like that. In truth there rarely is any morale black and white to war, it's entirely gray. Some one gets attacked, why, they were positioning themselves to be a threat to someone, or they have something another country wants. In one case the country attack is a victim the other is being an aggressor, the war takes place and while fighting both will do horrible things to win.

Some one said "The Quarians would poison their planet." BS Just like we wouldn't destroy ours? That why we have stockpiles of weapons that we we first invented them some scientist were scared they would burn off our atmosphere; yet we still used them? And now we have enough of them to destroy our planet more than 40 times over; and we still have idiots trying to develop some?

War is nonsensical war is not rational, all well made plans devolve at the moment of initial conflict. It's easy to sympathize with the Quarians, because yes being bumped from your homeland/world is sad as is being pushed to the brink of Genocide on both sides. Lest we forget had the Quarians won they would have killed all the Geth, not to mention mass murdered all the Quarians who felt the Geth had a right to live.

[Vormaerin]

Federally wrote...

I don't even know what exactly tractpl is arguing anymore. I think we're being trolled

His only point is that the writers are incompetent.  He just argues against anything that might lead to a conclusion other than "writer's derp" (in his words).

[snfonseka]

moater boat wrote...

snfonseka wrote...

moater boat wrote...

The Angry One wrote...


The Quarians have distinctions between military and civilians, but they still take civilians to war. They still outfit civilian ships with heavy cannons and throw them at the enemy. They still had civilian ships perform military missions.
So yeah, it's not the same.

Did you forget that one of the main reasons they wanted the homeworld back was to have a safe place to put the civilians when they went to fight the reapers?

Is this mentioned in the game? Because it doesn't make sense. Quarians have a seperate civilian fleet.

Yes it is mentioned in the game, and it makes perfect sense because a huge fleet of ships floating around without any warships to protect it would be a pretty ripe target for pirates, mercs and slavers.

Staying in a stationary location is not safer than staying in a mobile location.

[GnusmasTHX]

Vormaerin wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

If they had to escape at all, it seems that if they were open to accepting surrender, the geth were at least not advertising it.

That argument makes no sense.  Its like saying that since the Allies had to escape at Dunkirk, the Germans obviously weren't willing to accept their surrender.

No, it really isn't. Unless every single person who escaped was a soldier, then maybe. And those soldiers made up the entirety of the non-**** population of the world. Unlikely that anyone thought a life trapped in space would be better than surrender, unless the planet was already that ****ty at the end.

And you'd think offering a truce and then getting a pie in the face would've been one of the memories shown.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 16 avril 2012 - 12:53 .

[DJBare]

tractrpl wrote...

Geth: one person tried to kill a baby. Let's kill every person that exists.  Makes sense?

I'm playing devils advocate, I side with both the quarians and the geth, both equally ignorant, both needing to learn a better way.

[GnusmasTHX]

IanPolaris wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Even if you save them, the StarChild wins.

Legion turning a 180 and embracing Reaper technology and more over uploading it to his entire race?

Geth bonding with quarian suits?

Zha'til all over again. And we know how that ended.

The Zha'til like the Heretics only went bad because of Reaper interference.  Can we say 'self-fulfilling' prophecy.....

-Polaris

Source? I don't recall any of that.

[tractrpl]

TobiTobsen wrote...

If you try to exterminate a species and fail, be prepared that they might try to exterminate you instead.

Don't start a fight you can't win.

And the people sitting at home, minding their own business, playing Mass Effect deserved to die because....?

[matthewmi]

The Geth aren't exactly a good society even Legion himself basically says the geth are bad or make bad choices when he is talking to Shepard on Rannoch, "The Geth are better than this!" Legion basically responds "Based off our actions we're not," The quarians aren't blameless but the geth overwhelmed them quickly and could have rounded them up or isolated them in pockets on Rannoch and ignored them/kept them contained or even kicked them off the planet but they kept killing them..

[GnusmasTHX]

tractrpl wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

If you try to exterminate a species and fail, be prepared that they might try to exterminate you instead.

Don't start a fight you can't win.

And the people sitting at home, minding their own business, playing Mass Effect deserved to die because....?

Because they bought ME, and some of that was tax money, which went to the government that was used to support the war effort.

[tractrpl]

DJBare wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

Geth: one person tried to kill a baby. Let's kill every person that exists.  Makes sense?

I'm playing devils advocate, I side with both the quarians and the geth, both equally ignorant, both needing to learn a better way.

Me too, I'm playing advocate on the quarians side. I still punched Han'Garrel in the stomach, and didn't feel that bad about Legion lying.

[tractrpl]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

If you try to exterminate a species and fail, be prepared that they might try to exterminate you instead.

Don't start a fight you can't win.

And the people sitting at home, minding their own business, playing Mass Effect deserved to die because....?

Because they bought ME, and some of that was tax money, which went to the government that was used to support the war effort.

Damn! It all makes sense now.

[Shaedlance]

The Quarian prove in ME3, yet again, that they do not want peace, they wish to irradicate their mistake... the Geth.

They arm the Civilian fleet. Making them combat ready, but also making them a "glass cannon" to quote Joker. Anytime you arm something, that newly combat ready thing becomes a threat. The Geth are going to react as they have for 300 years... they will work to eliminate the threat and survive.

If you want peace then make peace, if you want war make war but do not complain when you get your ass handed to you, suffer staggering losses, and have no one to blame but yourselves.

Modifié par Shaedlance, 16 avril 2012 - 12:56 .

[Myrmedus]

tractrpl wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

If you try to exterminate a species and fail, be prepared that they might try to exterminate you instead.

Don't start a fight you can't win.

And the people sitting at home, minding their own business, playing Mass Effect deserved to die because....?

They didn't but I don't know how you expect targets in a war of that scale to be intricately selected and separated from innocents, especially by a group of machines that were considerably simpler than they are in present day Mass Effect.

[tractrpl]

Myrmedus wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

If you try to exterminate a species and fail, be prepared that they might try to exterminate you instead.

Don't start a fight you can't win.

And the people sitting at home, minding their own business, playing Mass Effect deserved to die because....?

They didn't but I don't know how you expect targets in a war of that scale to be intricately selected and separated from innocents, especially by a group of machines that were considerably simpler than they are in present day Mass Effect.

Even in a low tech war, like WWII, you could do it. What you do is you target military installations. You may not be doing this just to protect civilians, you're just eliminating threats. The biggest threats are wherever the biggest enemy guns are. After that, your left with a population with no guns. So why kill them? From a machines point of view, that would be a waste of energy, your not following the path of least resistence. So it's illogical.

[PrussianBlue]

Flidget wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

I've often wondered why certain people forgive this so glibly, yet regard the quarian actions as so inconscionably monstrous. I suspect it's got something to do with a person's real life politics.

Who created the Geth?  Who did the geth learn from? It's hard to blame the kid if the parent is a moron.

Seriously, this.

Emotionally the Geth are just children with enormous unresolved daddy issues, which is why they're so eager to welcome the Quarians back the moment the Quarians finally accept them.

And again you can play the **** card. Was Hitler just emotionally wrecked because of what happened to Germany in the treaty of versaille and therefore he did not understand his actions in WW2 correct? That has to be a joke. If someone kills 99% (think about that number) of a population, you can´t just play the "he does not understand" card. That is mass murder. Its genocide. I don´t care if the Geth didn´t know what they were doing, they did it. That is enough to judge them.

While not reading through everything, why would the Quarians poison their own world? With weapons that can´t do a bit against their enemies? I guess you guys would proably do that, any Military leader would not.

[Vormaerin]

tractrpl wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

If you try to exterminate a species and fail, be prepared that they might try to exterminate you instead.

Don't start a fight you can't win.

And the people sitting at home, minding their own business, playing Mass Effect deserved to die because....?

probably for the same reason that the residents of Hiroshima, Dresden, London, and so on deserved to die.

What does "Deserve" have to do with it?  Did the Geth deserve to die?  Because we sure don't have any evidence that they ever had another option.

But we do know the the Geth stopped hostilities when the Quarians fled the system.  And we know that the Geth are not the reason peace fails in the Rannoch missions (if it does).

[count_4]

tractrpl wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Okay, lets put it in human terms.

Quarians: We created a baby, kill it!!

Geth: one person tried to kill a baby. Let's kill every person that exists.  Makes sense?

Except that this 'one person' is almost an entire civilization and they already decided to kill all babies. They just
started with a particular one and went from there.

Modifié par count_4, 16 avril 2012 - 01:05 .

[Shaoken]

Okay, I skipped the last ten pages so don't know if this has been brought up;

Why assume that the bulk of the casualties took place on Rannoch? Perhaps the bulk of the casualties happened on the colonies they had with ships breaking up over orbit and posioning the atmosphere?

And how many Quarians died during the departure from Quarian Space? 17 million escaped, is that literally every Quarian left alive at that point? Or were there many more who couldn't flee and stayed behind and ruined worlds?

Too many unknowns, but it's not a plot hole anymore than the lack of information on the logistics of the Rachni Wars or the Krogan Rebellions was a plot hole.

[L. Han]

To me the situation is very grey. Both sides done something really bad regardless who started it.

Hell I think if humans we're in that situation we would have done the same thing. People show true colors when under pressure. But robots don't show color when under pressure.

If my computer suddenly can think for itself I'm damn well going to try to shut it down.

[GnusmasTHX]

Rickets wrote...
If my computer suddenly can think for itself I'm damn well going to try to shut it down.

I prefer the toaster analogy solely for the reason that if my computer could think and speak, and did so, **** would get awkward as hell real fast.

[count_4]

Rickets wrote...
If my computer suddenly can think for itself I'm damn well going to try to shut it down.

Serious question: Why?

[L. Han]

Interesting on how some people say Geth favor peace. They sure have some fine weapons.

[GnusmasTHX]

Rickets wrote...

Interesting on how some people say Geth favor peace. They sure have some fine weapons.

All the most secluded pacifist races need the most advanced weapons and ships in the galaxy, bar the weapons and ships of the most genocidal one.