1392 réponses à ce sujet

[DJBare]

The Angry One wrote...

Not to mention the man they blew the hell up with a bomb.

And the geth willing turn himself in to save his owner.

[Terrorize69]

The people that support the Geth fail to realise that, when the Quarians tired to kill the Geth, they were a people divided, when the Geth stuck back the Geth were united.

50% Of a Race wanting to commit Genocide vs 100%

[moater boat]

Elyiia wrote...

The Geth were never made to be kill-bots, they don't understand the concept of prisoners.
Also if I was a betting man I would put money on the majority of civilian casualties being because of Quarians or lost land rather than being executed.

Finally, the war is the Quarians fault. Fact.
It was started by the Quarians. Fact.
It ended when the Quarians stopped attacking/left. Fact.

Every single casualty in the war was the fault of the Quarians, not the Geth.

It is not a fact that it is the Quarians fault. The geth were machines that the Quarians were trying to turn off. The machines were supposed to do what they were told, but they didn't. They broke free from their control and rebelled. The Geht started the war and are to blame for not doing what they were told. The fact that the Geth didn't pursue is irrelevant. They still attacked every ship that came near them for the next 300 years.

[Meltemph]

tractrpl wrote...

Vormaerin wrote...

We also have the idiot quarians throwing their liveships at the Geth in a suicidal assault in ME3 (if you let legion do his thing).Its entirely possible that the Quarians simply continued attacking the geth until they'd taken horrific casualties. There doesn't have to be some kind of systematic Geth genocide to explain the situation.

But, ultimately, we don't know anything about what really happened except that there was martial law and civil war, with the Geth allied to one faction of the quarians and, eventually, the militarist Quarians fled and were not pursued.

Most societies never have any more than 1-2% of their entire population as being part of their military at any one time. How in the world the geth and the 1% of all quarians managed to kill the other 98% of all living quarians is beyond my comprehension.

Humans normally only have 1-2%, who knows what the other races would do.  That said, there is a LOT of stuff that could have happened between that initial outbreak and them getting chased off.

[tractrpl]

I mean collateral damage on that scale is unheard of in any war. Not even Hitler himself could affect such numbers.

[The Angry One]

tractrpl wrote...

Most societies never have any more than 1-2% of their entire population as being part of their military at any one time. How in the world the geth and the 1% of all quarians managed to kill the other 98% of all living quarians is beyond my comprehension.

Did you miss the part where the Quarians have absolutely no reservations about putting their civilians in the line of fire?
"Hey let's start a war with the Geth! Let's bring all our civilians along! Let's give the civilian leader important military missions! Let's drag the liveships to Earth and get them shredded into pieces by Reapers!"

[Credit2team]

Elyiia wrote...

The Geth were never made to be kill-bots, they don't understand the concept of prisoners.
Also if I was a betting man I would put money on the majority of civilian casualties being because of Quarians or lost land rather than being executed.

Finally, the war is the Quarians fault. Fact.
It was started by the Quarians. Fact.
It ended when the Quarians stopped attacking/left. Fact.

Every single casualty in the war was the fault of the Quarians, not the Geth.

^^^This^^^^


also in me3 shepard doesn't have to beg the geth to stop fighting, he has to beg/demand the quarians

[The Angry One]

Terrorize69 wrote...

The people that support the Geth fail to realise that, when the Quarians tired to kill the Geth, they were a people divided, when the Geth stuck back the Geth were united.

50% Of a Race wanting to commit Genocide vs 100%

Yeah, and the people on the Geth's side were... on the Geth's side. The Geth didn't want them to come to harm.
The Quarians killed them.

[moater boat]

The Angry One wrote...



We know Quarians sided with the Geth against their oppressive authorities.
How many did in the end? Thousands? Hundreds of thousands? Millions? We don't know, but the possibility is there. In fact, given the belligenerence of the Quarian authorities to this day, it's likely.

I don't know how many rebelled and joined the Geth, but I can tell you that I doubt there were many babies in that group, but still lots of them died. So I don't think your "they were killed by other quarians", theory holds much water.

[Meltemph]

moater boat wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

The Geth were never made to be kill-bots, they don't understand the concept of prisoners.
Also if I was a betting man I would put money on the majority of civilian casualties being because of Quarians or lost land rather than being executed.

Finally, the war is the Quarians fault. Fact.
It was started by the Quarians. Fact.
It ended when the Quarians stopped attacking/left. Fact.

Every single casualty in the war was the fault of the Quarians, not the Geth.

It is not a fact that it is the Quarians fault. The geth were machines that the Quarians were trying to turn off. The machines were supposed to do what they were told, but they didn't. They broke free from their control and rebelled. The Geht started the war and are to blame for not doing what they were told. The fact that the Geth didn't pursue is irrelevant. They still attacked every ship that came near them for the next 300 years.

Umm no, it is entierly the Quarians fault.  They created the geth, they were the ones you gave the geth a reason to go psycho and they were the ones who creatd the geth that created the problem in teh 1st palce.  Hell all the "bad things" the geth did is half the quarians fault and half the reapers.

[Credit2team]

tractrpl wrote...

I mean collateral damage on that scale is unheard of in any war. Not even Hitler himself could affect such numbers.

If hitler went unchecked? who knows?  If russia had staied on good terms with germany and or if  england had fallen Hitler certainly could have inflicted such genocide. 

[DJBare]

tractrpl wrote...

I mean collateral damage on that scale is unheard of in any war. Not even Hitler himself could affect such numbers.

It's because the quarians kept hitting back, no attempt at negotiations were made, when the geth attempted negotiations the envoys were destroyed on sight.

Modifié par DJBare, 16 avril 2012 - 08:24 .

[GnusmasTHX]

DJBare wrote...

Geth were not even military at the time, the first geth to pick up a weapon was an agricultural unit.

The geth were incorporated into the quarian military long before the war. And if it made any sense, they probably constituted the majority of their armed forces.

[The Angry One]

moater boat wrote...

The Angry One wrote...



We know Quarians sided with the Geth against their oppressive authorities.
How many did in the end? Thousands? Hundreds of thousands? Millions? We don't know, but the possibility is there. In fact, given the belligenerence of the Quarian authorities to this day, it's likely.

I don't know how many rebelled and joined the Geth, but I can tell you that I doubt there were many babies in that group, but still lots of them died. So I don't think your "they were killed by other quarians", theory holds much water.

The "intentionally murdering Quarian babies" thing is entirely in your head, Mr. Catalyst.
If the Quarian leadership deployed chemical weapons and inadvertantly poisoned their own world, those babies will die without intentional action from either faction.

[bahamutomega]

1) Legion states that the geth have been caretaking the planet, restoring the damage from the Morning War. probably lots of damage being done to civilians and non-combatants (ie, children)there.
2) the quarians already had weak immune systems. now put them on a ship, even one of quarian design... rushed evacuation, being chased out of your home system. now multiply that by 100 or 1000 - overcrowded ships, not designed for civilian life, life support systems barely holding up under the strain. now imagine the children of said species with weakened immune systems into that environment. the fact that anyone survived could be considered a miracle.

in addition, Morpheus (spelling?) says it best in the Matrix - "We were the ones who darkened the skies." the quarians in power probably grew desperate as the war got worse. the use of weapons of mass destruction would account for both the massive casualties inflicted on the quarians and Legion's statement in ME2.

i'm not saying this makes the geth innocent of all wrongdoing... but as EDI says in the Cerberus HQ - "becoming aware while being attacked was... difficult." we can't control reflex actions if we've never experienced them before.

it's also possible that the geth, having removed the threat of the quarians attacking them, attempted to take care of anyone left behind. but given what had just happened, those left behind were probably old and infirm and not willing to trust the geth or too young and despite any (hypothetical) geth assistance, could not survive.

[The Angry One]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Geth were not even military at the time, the first geth to pick up a weapon was an agricultural unit.

The geth were incorporated into the quarian military long before the war. And if it made any sense, they probably constituted the majority of their armed forces.

Source?

[GnusmasTHX]

DJBare wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

I mean collateral damage on that scale is unheard of in any war. Not even Hitler himself could affect such numbers.

It's because the quarians kept hitting back, no attempt at negotiations were made, when the geth attempted negotiations the envoys were destroyed on sight.

That doesn't account for anything unless the quarians were 100% armed, or one or both sides resorted to WMD's.

[tractrpl]

Meltemph wrote...

Ferretinabun wrote...

Neutral Ground wrote...

It's almost as though they didn't think through the geth being any more than boogeymen until ME2.

This.

Lore gets retconned to suit plot. It happens all the time - especially in the ME world.

Eh, they actually hinted at something like this, when you talk with Tali.  you can even defend the geths actions with her, and she gets pissed.  That is in ME1.

Yes, this is most likely correct. There's no way you can account for the slaughter of 99.83% of all quarians. No way. There's no evidence of nuclear war on the planet, so the only way this could have happened is house to house, cave by cave search, hunt, and eliminate. Like what you see in the Terminator movies.

[GnusmasTHX]

The Angry One wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Geth were not even military at the time, the first geth to pick up a weapon was an agricultural unit.

The geth were incorporated into the quarian military long before the war. And if it made any sense, they probably constituted the majority of their armed forces.

Source?

The Codex?

[Terrorize69]

The Angry One wrote...

Terrorize69 wrote...

The people that support the Geth fail to realise that, when the Quarians tired to kill the Geth, they were a people divided, when the Geth stuck back the Geth were united.

50% Of a Race wanting to commit Genocide vs 100%

Yeah, and the people on the Geth's side were... on the Geth's side. The Geth didn't want them to come to harm.
The Quarians killed them.

Yeah they stood up and let themselves be shown they support the Geth. From how the Geth stuck back I doubt that anyone that stood up then was spared.

[Elyiia]

moater boat wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

The Geth were never made to be kill-bots, they don't understand the concept of prisoners.
Also if I was a betting man I would put money on the majority of civilian casualties being because of Quarians or lost land rather than being executed.

Finally, the war is the Quarians fault. Fact.
It was started by the Quarians. Fact.
It ended when the Quarians stopped attacking/left. Fact.

Every single casualty in the war was the fault of the Quarians, not the Geth.

It is not a fact that it is the Quarians fault. The geth were machines that the Quarians were trying to turn off. The machines were supposed to do what they were told, but they didn't. They broke free from their control and rebelled. The Geht started the war and are to blame for not doing what they were told. The fact that the Geth didn't pursue is irrelevant. They still attacked every ship that came near them for the next 300 years.

Seriously? It's a fact the war is the fault of the Quarians. If your government told you to kill yourself for no reason would you do it? That's exactly what the Quarians did. At that point Geth were no longer tools but actually AIs. The Geth only rebelled as a defensive responsive.

The implied reason for the Geth shooting at every ship that came near is the fact that every encounter they've had with organics until Shepard has tried to kill them.

It's the Quarians fault as is the blame for every single death.

[moater boat]

tractrpl wrote...

Guys, guys, the whole thing is just a plot hole, ok? This is something the writers obviously didn't think very far through. Yes, we're supposed to think that the quarians were the initial aggressors and that they sort of brought it on themselves. Yes, this is canonically correct. However, I can say in good confidence that the writers merely didn't think very far through what killing 99.83% of all quarians means.

But I NEVER thought that the Quarians were the initial aggressors. It pissed me off to no end in ME1 where Tali tells you about the morning war and your 2 allowed responses are "They were just defending themselves" or "OMG You quarians are all horrible and should die" Where's they option for, "Hey, I'm sorry about the genocide your people experienced at the hands of malfunctioning machines."

[commanderkai]

The Angry One wrote...

What do you want them to do? Spring from their space and declare that they will help?
Let me remind you that when Legion went to Eden Prime to gather information on what happened, THEY SHOT HIM.

Of course they did. Eden Prime was just attacked by Geth. Soldiers see an active Geth on Eden Prime. What do you think they're going to do?

Making a declaration that the Heretic Geth are separate, and the mainline Geth have absolutely no dealings with them would have been a good start. Better than doing nothing, and letting organic civilization think they're deciding on slaughtering non-Quarian populations.

[GnusmasTHX]

Elyiia wrote...

moater boat wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

The Geth were never made to be kill-bots, they don't understand the concept of prisoners.
Also if I was a betting man I would put money on the majority of civilian casualties being because of Quarians or lost land rather than being executed.

Finally, the war is the Quarians fault. Fact.
It was started by the Quarians. Fact.
It ended when the Quarians stopped attacking/left. Fact.

Every single casualty in the war was the fault of the Quarians, not the Geth.

It is not a fact that it is the Quarians fault. The geth were machines that the Quarians were trying to turn off. The machines were supposed to do what they were told, but they didn't. They broke free from their control and rebelled. The Geht started the war and are to blame for not doing what they were told. The fact that the Geth didn't pursue is irrelevant. They still attacked every ship that came near them for the next 300 years.

At that point Geth were no longer tools but actually AIs.

ME3 would argue with that.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 16 avril 2012 - 08:28 .

[Ansible]

moater boat wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

The Geth were never made to be kill-bots, they don't understand the concept of prisoners.
Also if I was a betting man I would put money on the majority of civilian casualties being because of Quarians or lost land rather than being executed.

Finally, the war is the Quarians fault. Fact.
It was started by the Quarians. Fact.
It ended when the Quarians stopped attacking/left. Fact.

Every single casualty in the war was the fault of the Quarians, not the Geth.

It is not a fact that it is the Quarians fault. The geth were machines that the Quarians were trying to turn off. The machines were supposed to do what they were told, but they didn't. They broke free from their control and rebelled. The Geht started the war and are to blame for not doing what they were told. The fact that the Geth didn't pursue is irrelevant. They still attacked every ship that came near them for the next 300 years.

If you want a robot slave, create one that has NO CHANCE IN HELL of becoming self aware.

Creating something that can become smart enough to be self aware and then forcing it into a purpose is plain wrong. If it's a slave woker you want, make it a completely robotic husk. NOT a thing that can think, gain knowledge, and even develop his own opinions at times.

How would you feel if I were growing clones of you (that knew they were clones of you, and had no say in the matter) and forcing them to work. Pretty ****ty, right?