1392 réponses à ce sujet

[soulprovider]

 four things we must remember when it comes to the geth quarian conflict

1) There were a lot of quarians who supported the geth, legion exclaims this by saying that eventually the number of quarians who supported the geth were outnumbered by the quarians who wanted the bloodshed, so its safe to assume that the geth conflict wasn't only against the AI's more than likely a cival war broke out.

2) As some one else said before war is not clean, targets can be missed, collateral damage can occur

3) Legion claims that the war with the quarians was called the morning war, the war in which the geth were awakening and the quarians attacked, and given how the geth operate its logical to assume that they were not fully sentient, we'll never know that part for certain as that could mean many things

4) The current population of the flotilla is 17 million, the question is raised did the flotilla start out that way, i'd go as far as to assume that the population was much much higher at the exodus but due to highly limited resources and immunity weakness which grew worse over time its reasonable to assume that the quarians experienced massive die offs until their population could level out at that number, It is stated by Tali in ME1 that the quarian conclave(quarian government) has the power to limit the birth rate of quarian families to just one child when the population is getting to high and repeal or even offer incentives to quarian familes when the population gets to low in order to maintain the 17 million mark. This suggests the conclave did not exist initially after the exodus but due to the near extinction of their race and the councils unwillingness to help them they has to form the conclave in order to save the flotilla and preserve their race.

[Dinoman666]

IanPolaris wrote...

daigakuinsei wrote...

Safe to assume that both sides are not presenting the whole truth. Geth are clearly capable of deception, and Quarians are too.

True and Legion does lie to you (or at least hides things from you at least twice in ME3).  That said, much of the Morning War information is learned by you in the Geth concensus and the Geth can't lie in that concensus (although apparently the Heretics can) which means I consider that info to be somewhat more reliable.

-Polaris

Yeah, in my opinion, the Consensus is the msot credible piece of information in the entire ME universe (considering how many characters tend to lie, including Shepard him/herself, that's not really an exaggeration).

Modifié par Dinoman666, 17 avril 2012 - 12:31 .

[IanPolaris]

Dinoman666 wrote...

Sparatus wrote...

I would have also liked a situation like Mordin and Wreav.

Like, for instance. If either Tali or Legion is dead you can use Xen to take control of the geth for you.

But they dropped the plotline of Xen wanting to control the geth in Mass Effect 3. Which was a huge waste of a potential choice.

edit: I also hate how, even if you do everything right, if your invisible reputation isn't high enough you still can't make peace between the two.

Yeah, I just remembered that email she sends you if you don't give out any evidence to clear Tali's name. And here I was, hoping for a boss fight with Xen. Or at least an awesome standoff. D**n you Bioware! D**N YOOOOOOOU!

*Ahem*

And the requirements for peace are a bit wonky. I don't think anyone's figured it out completely. High reputation, Tali as Admiral, and loyal Legion are all required, I believe (having Zaal'Koris helps, too).

To get peace with Geth you MUST:

Have Legion survive and be loyal at the end of ME2
Have Tali survive and be loyal and be part of the Fleet in ME2
Resolve the loyalty conflict between Tali and Legion using either a renegade or paragon interrupt in ME2 keeping both loyal.
Have a high reputation at the end of the Rannoch Mission.
[IE both Tali's and Legion's Loyalty missions must be successfully conmpleted in ME2]


The above are minimum requirements.  They are necessary but not sufficient.

In addition the frollowing things make peace easier:

1.  Save Admiral Koris
2.  Do the Geth Fighter Base Server Quest with Legion
3.  Destroy the Geth Heretics in ME2
4.  Use the Paragon option when trying to get the Quarians to stop firing.

To my knowledge it works like this on a point system.  To get peace using the Paragon choice at the end you need five "peace" points, to get peace using the Renegade option you need seven "peace" points.

1.  Destroy the Heretics==2 peace points (Failure condition: Rewrite Heretics is worth zero peace points)
2. Tali is not exiled and loyal==2 peace points.  This requires you to use a paragon or renegade speach at the end of Tali's loyalty quest.  (Failure condition:  If Tali is exiled and loyal, you get zero peace points.  If Tali disloyal, no peace possible).
3. Legion and Tali's loyalty conflict resolved by paragon/renegade speech: 1 peace point (I suppose it's possible to get zero if you temporarily lose one or the other and then get it back in a subsequent conversation)
4.  Sucessfully save Admiral Koris==1 peace point (saving his crew is worth zero)
5.  Do the fighter base mission with Legion == 1 peace point.

That's all to the best of my personal knowledge.

-Polaris

[Dinoman666]

Sparatus wrote...

There was a confrontation with Xen if you made peace. But it was cut from the game.

Along with Xen's entire backstory apparently. Which sounded like it was going to put a little negative light on the geth.

Ooh. Source?

soulprovider wrote...

 four things we must remember when it comes to the geth quarian conflict

1) There were a lot of quarians who supported the geth, legion exclaims this by saying that eventually the number of quarians who supported the geth were outnumbered by the quarians who wanted the bloodshed, so its safe to assume that the geth conflict wasn't only against the AI's more than likely a cival war broke out.

2) As some one else said before war is not clean, targets can be missed, collateral damage can occur

3) Legion claims that the war with the quarians was called the morning war, the war in which the geth were awakening and the quarians attacked, and given how the geth operate its logical to assume that they were not fully sentient, we'll never know that part for certain as that could mean many things

4) The current population of the flotilla is 17 million, the question is raised did the flotilla start out that way, i'd go as far as to assume that the population was much much higher at the exodus but due to highly limited resources and immunity weakness which grew worse over time its reasonable to assume that the quarians experienced massive die offs until their population could level out at that number, It is stated by Tali in ME1 that the quarian conclave(quarian government) has the power to limit the birth rate of quarian families to just one child when the population is getting to high and repeal or even offer incentives to quarian familes when the population gets to low in order to maintain the 17 million mark. This suggests the conclave did not exist initially after the exodus but due to the near extinction of their race and the councils unwillingness to help them they has to form the conclave in order to save the flotilla and preserve their race.

An excellent argument, good sir.

Sparatus wrote...

I don't even really consider the Consensus trying to paint the quarians in a negative light. It sounds more like Legion is trying to point out that peace is possible by showing you the quarians helping the geth.

But yeah, Legion does omit a lot of truths during Rannoch. Which kept sending up a lot of red flags.

I don't know, I felt bad for Legion when he started lying. That was a sign that things were deteriorating between Shepard and Legion personally. Even if the consensus wasn't meant to show the Quarians in a negative fashion, the scene at the beginning of Priority: Rannoch when Legion finally admits he still has the Reaper code was definitely meant to show the Geth as being "just like us:" imperfect, and very organic.

[Dinoman666]

You also don't need to destroy the heretics. I rewrote them, and I still made peace. The only thing that decision does (as far as I know) is reduce either the Geth or Quarian war assets (depending on which choice you picked in ME2).

[Dinoman666]

Sparatus wrote...

You don't need to use the paragon option. I picked stop the upload and still had the option to make peace.

It depends on the correct choices in Mass Effect 2 and having a high reputation. That's it.

Dinoman666 wrote...

Ooh. Source?

The leaked script. The confrontation ends with Tali or Shepard shooting her.

Ah. I never read the leaked script, so that explains that.

Man, that would've been awesome...

[IanPolaris]

Sparatus wrote...

You don't need to use the paragon option. I picked stop the upload and still had the option to make peace.

It depends on the correct choices in Mass Effect 2 and having a high reputation. That's it.

Dinoman666 wrote...

Ooh. Source?

The leaked script. The confrontation ends with Tali or Shepard shooting her.

Right, but it's EASIER if you use the paragon option.  If you use the Rengade option, you need all seven peace points.  Likewise it's EASIER if you destroyed the Heretics, but you CAN rewrite them and still get five peace points and thus the option for peace.

-Polaris

[Dinoman666]

IanPolaris wrote...

Sparatus wrote...

You don't need to use the paragon option. I picked stop the upload and still had the option to make peace.

It depends on the correct choices in Mass Effect 2 and having a high reputation. That's it.

Dinoman666 wrote...

Ooh. Source?

The leaked script. The confrontation ends with Tali or Shepard shooting her.

Right, but it's EASIER if you use the paragon option.  If you use the Rengade option, you need all seven peace points.  Likewise it's EASIER if you destroyed the Heretics, but you CAN rewrite them and still get five peace points and thus the option for peace.

-Polaris

Oh, I getcha. Thanks for the clarification.

Heh, clarification. That word has taken on a whole new meaning now.

[IanPolaris]

Sparatus wrote...

I didn't have Tali as an admiral. I had her exiled. Which removes one or two points from the equation.

I think that Tali being alive and loyal is the minimum requirement (which would be exile) but if she isn't you get 2 peace points (as opposed to zero).

If Tali (or Legion) is not alive or loyal after ME2, Peace is not possible.

-Polaris

[TexasToast712]

 Something tells me Quarians used Geth as babysitters and nurses.

[IanPolaris]

Sparatus wrote...

There was a confrontation with Xen if you made peace. But it was cut from the game.

Along with Xen's entire backstory apparently. Which sounded like it was going to put a little negative light on the geth.

Right and I am virtually certain that Dr Archer's "Project Overlord" data was to be a part of this.  I regard this as a serious missed (renegade) opportunity to get both the Geth and Quarian fleets without peace.  Combine Project overlord with what Daro'Xen could cook up and controlling the Geth should have been possible IMO.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

TexasToast712 wrote...

 Something tells me Quarians used Geth as babysitters and nurses.

I wouldn't be suprised at all.  We know that many geth were 'household' or 'domestic servant' uses, and using 'bots to do the scut work in hospitals makes sense.

-Polaris

[111987]

So, not sure if this has been discussed, but how would a pro-Geth supporter justify the Geth essentially stepping aside in ME1 to allow Sovereign and the Heretic Geth to try to commit a galaxy-wide genocide against organics?

Because that kind of goes against the idea discussed in this thread that the Geth are peaceful/blameless for everything.

[Dinoman666]

111987 wrote...

So, not sure if this has been discussed, but how would a pro-Geth supporter justify the Geth essentially stepping aside in ME1 to allow Sovereign and the Heretic Geth to try to commit a galaxy-wide genocide against organics?

Because that kind of goes against the idea discussed in this thread that the Geth are peaceful/blameless for everything.

The Geth are certainly not without blame. They've commited plenty of terrible atrocities. However, the apathy towards the Heretics was based mostly on self-determination. If the Heretics chose what they did, who were the other Geth to stop them? They didn't agree, but they understood the heretics' reasoning.

Unfortunately, they didn't seem to understand the consequences. Now, of course, the Geth would probably never have tried to help, because they would probably just scare the organic races into attacking them. They probably thought that it was best if the organics worked it out themselves. Again, the idea of self-determination. Not the greatest plan, but the Geth didn't really have much choice in the matter. They'd rather not cause any more trouble.

Even when the heretics attacked the true geth, they only sent Legion to investigate, and were honestly perplexed that the heretics were spying on them.

In short, the Geth made some mistakes. Doesn't make them monsters, just like the Quarians (mostly) aren't really monsters.

Modifié par Dinoman666, 17 avril 2012 - 01:05 .

[lordnyx1]

111987 wrote...

So, not sure if this has been discussed, but how would a pro-Geth supporter justify the Geth essentially stepping aside in ME1 to allow Sovereign and the Heretic Geth to try to commit a galaxy-wide genocide against organics?

Because that kind of goes against the idea discussed in this thread that the Geth are peaceful/blameless for everything.

Who would believe them? The galaxy thanks to the Quarian saw them as kill bots and even Shepard couldn't convince the council the reapers were real.

Actually with how often and through the council and its member species bury stuff the Geth may have very well tried to warn them. They just forgot about the bea erg warning until it was to late...

Modifié par lordnyx1, 17 avril 2012 - 01:17 .

[Dinoman666]

If that were true, then why not let the Reapers win? Everyone in the ME universe is kind of an a** anyway.

Except for my Shepard. He was Good Guy Greg.

Modifié par Dinoman666, 17 avril 2012 - 01:12 .

[Razzandi]

[Dinoman666]

Razzandi wrote...

...can I have some popcorn?

Sparatus wrote...

Dinoman666 wrote...

If that were true, then why not let the Reapers win? Everyone in the ME universe is kind of an a** anyway.

Except for my Shepard. He was Good Guy Greg.

Honestly, that is why I like the Mass Effect universe. All of the species (except for the asari, I dislike them) all have massive flaws. 

Isn't the flaw of the Asari that they think they have none (AKA arrogance)?