1392 réponses à ce sujet

[Meltemph]

tractrpl wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

Ferretinabun wrote...

Neutral Ground wrote...

It's almost as though they didn't think through the geth being any more than boogeymen until ME2.

This.

Lore gets retconned to suit plot. It happens all the time - especially in the ME world.

Eh, they actually hinted at something like this, when you talk with Tali.  you can even defend the geths actions with her, and she gets pissed.  That is in ME1.

Yes, this is most likely correct. There's no way you can account for the slaughter of 99.83% of all quarians. No way. There's no evidence of nuclear war on the planet, so the only way this could have happened is house to house, cave by cave search, hunt, and eliminate. Like what you see in the Terminator movies.

I disagree a lot, it only makes sense that the geth learned all their tactics and tech based on quarian idea's.  Again, the Geth are essentially children at this point and not near as intellgient as they are now.  Again, the Quarians sucked at being parents in terms of the Geth, I think that much is pretty clear.  

[StElmo]

thewalrusx wrote...

How many Japanese babies died in WWII due to American bombs? When is a war ever clean and fair?

This.

[Vapaa]

Aetika wrote...
No, they are only foolish enough to start war over their homeworld, when there is Reaper invasion 

Yes, but they sure had more reasons to do so than bombing Geths with chemical weapons

The Angry One wrote...
And again, we don't know how many of those are due to the Geth.[/quo

Geth sympathisers weren't majority, and were civilians, plus even if the Quarian losses were "only" 99% (witch brings the Rannoch population at 1,7 billion wich is a really low estimate), that means a lot of child death, and child don't side with the Geth

Conversations with Legion in ME2. The Geth spent a significant amount of time restoring Rannoch's biosphere from the poisoning left in the war's wake.

A planet-scale genocidal war sure needs some cleaning

Certainly, a people who'd bring civilians and children to a war zone, shoot down ships with one of their own admirals aboard, experiment on networked Geth in the middle of their own fleet and refuse to stand down from a fight even when the other side is shredding them to pieces would NEVER be stupid enough to poison their own world.

Exactly, because all of what you mentioned it NOT as stupid as fighting synthetics with chemical weapons

 

Which part of Quarian sympathisers do you not understand?

What you mean the Quarian army would drop chemical bombs to kill the few civilians siding with the Geths ?

[The Angry One]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Geth were not even military at the time, the first geth to pick up a weapon was an agricultural unit.

The geth were incorporated into the quarian military long before the war. And if it made any sense, they probably constituted the majority of their armed forces.

Source?

The Codex?

The only reference in the codex I know of is that "the Geth were created as tools of labour and war".
However, the codex is not omniscient, it is a representation of in-universe knowledge. What we see in the consensus contradicts that idea.

We see Quarian armed forces, and we see domestic and farming Geth taking up arms.

[Terrorize69]

Also, when the Quarians attacked the Geth in ME3, alot were against the idea, even Tali. Should an entire race die down to the actions of thier military?

Take a RL example, should the entire American/British public be branded by some in the east as whatever, for the choices our governments made, ultimately we had no say. Do we deserve genocide too?

[moater boat]

The Angry One wrote...



 That man was a civilian. If you don't think there's something wrong with the government murdering an innocent adult exercising his right to protest then there's something very wrong with you, sorry.

"Protesting" does not mean giving aid and comfort to the enemy and making yourself a human shield, or quarian shield in this case.

If you are hanging out in a warzone with the enemy and you don't do what the soldiers say, you are going to get killed. Plain and simple.

[tractrpl]

Don't get me wrong, I was delighted to establish peace between the quarians and the geth. However, the excuse that the geth were "just defending themselves" is very shaky. That's like saying Hitler decimated 7 million Jews cause they were "just defending themselves".

[Aetika]

moater boat wrote...

Aetika wrote...


No, they are only foolish enough to start war over their homeworld, when there is Reaper invasion 

As far as they knew, the Geth were still working with the Reapers. From their point of view, they were doing more than any other race to combat the reaper threat.

Please. Han Gerrel himself says that they "initiated the war to retake their homeworld". There is no mention about Reapers or the war being their part of fight against Reapers. Actually the whole conversations shows very clearly, that it is not about Reapers at all.: 

[DJBare]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

That doesn't account for anything unless the quarians were 100% armed, or one or both sides resorted to WMD's.

The quarians believed the only way to win back their home was the destruction of the geth, they did not consider any other options, in desperation they fled the home world with the geth in persuit, but heres the kicker, for a race that supposedly indiscrminatly kills babies they broke of their persuit and retreated behind the veil, the quarians had already lost, the geth could have wiped them all out.

[Elyiia]

Terrorize69 wrote...

Also, when the Quarians attacked the Geth in ME3, alot were against the idea, even Tali. Should an entire race die down to the actions of thier military?

Take a RL example, should the entire American/British public be branded by some in the east as whatever, for the choices our governments made, ultimately we had no say. Do we deserve genocide too?

The Quarians had the option to ceasefire and end the war. They did not. They are responsible. If the civilians didn't stop the government they're just as responsible imo.

[Meltemph]

tractrpl wrote...

Don't get me wrong, I was delighted to establish peace between the quarians and the geth. However, the excuse that the geth were "just defending themselves" is very shaky. That's like saying Hitler decimated 7 million Jews cause they were "just defending themselves".

But it isnt really comparable. Remember, the geth are only as inteligent as their numbers.  I think it is pretty obvious that they have multiplied since the morning war, so it is safe to say that the geth were a lot dumber then they are now.

[The Angry One]

Vapaä wrote...

Yes, but they sure had more reasons to do so than bombing Geths with chemical weapons

Oh my god.

THEY
WOULD
USE
CHEMICAL
WEAPONS
AGAINST
OTHER
QUARIANS

Geth sympathisers weren't majority, and were civilians, plus even if the Quarian losses were "only" 99% (witch brings the Rannoch population at 1,7 billion wich is a really low estimate), that means a lot of child death, and child don't side with the Geth

Civilians which the Quarian authorities were more than willing to use extreme measures against.

A planet-scale genocidal war sure needs some cleaning

Baseless argument, nrext.

Exactly, because all of what you mentioned it NOT as stupid as fighting synthetics with chemical weapons

You're being deliberately obtuse aren't you?

What you mean the Quarian army would drop chemical bombs to kill the few civilians siding with the Geths ?

They used heavy explosives to kill one single protestor. So yes.

[tractrpl]

StElmo wrote...

thewalrusx wrote...

How many Japanese babies died in WWII due to American bombs? When is a war ever clean and fair?

This.

Yeah, well, the Japanese are not only still here, they're a force to be reckoned with. Fighting a war is terrible, but killing 99.83% of the enemies population?

[The Angry One]

moater boat wrote...

The Angry One wrote...



 That man was a civilian. If you don't think there's something wrong with the government murdering an innocent adult exercising his right to protest then there's something very wrong with you, sorry.

"Protesting" does not mean giving aid and comfort to the enemy and making yourself a human shield, or quarian shield in this case.

If you are hanging out in a warzone with the enemy and you don't do what the soldiers say, you are going to get killed. Plain and simple.

The war hadn't even started yet, this was a protestor trying to keep a Geth from being destroyed.

[GnusmasTHX]

The Angry One wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Geth were not even military at the time, the first geth to pick up a weapon was an agricultural unit.

The geth were incorporated into the quarian military long before the war. And if it made any sense, they probably constituted the majority of their armed forces.

Source?

The Codex?

The only reference in the codex I know of is that "the Geth were created as tools of labour and war".
However, the codex is not omniscient, it is a representation of in-universe knowledge. What we see in the consensus contradicts that idea.

We see Quarian armed forces, and we see domestic and farming Geth taking up arms.

That's not a contradiction.

All that shows is that the first geth to rebel was a labor unit. 

[tractrpl]

The Angry One wrote...

Vapaä wrote...

Yes, but they sure had more reasons to do so than bombing Geths with chemical weapons

Oh my god.

THEY
WOULD
USE
CHEMICAL
WEAPONS
AGAINST
OTHER
QUARIANS

Source. I've read the online codex and found no evidence of WMDs being used by either side.

[The Angry One]

tractrpl wrote...

StElmo wrote...

thewalrusx wrote...

How many Japanese babies died in WWII due to American bombs? When is a war ever clean and fair?

This.

Yeah, well, the Japanese are not only still here, they're a force to be reckoned with. Fighting a war is terrible, but killing 99.83% of the enemies population?

Do you realise what would've happened if the Japanese hadn't surrendered?
Hardline military crackpots in the Japanese government were calling for every last Japanese man, woman and child to slow the impending American/Soviet ground invasion.
It would've been a massacre, and could very well have utterly destroyed Japan.

[Ansible]

tractrpl wrote...

Don't get me wrong, I was delighted to establish peace between the quarians and the geth. However, the excuse that the geth were "just defending themselves" is very shaky. That's like saying Hitler decimated 7 million Jews cause they were "just defending themselves".

No.

The jews did not create Hitler, a fully self aware human being, who could think for himself and have a life of his own, and then force him to be a tool. And the minure he asked if he had any kind of relevnce in life, you ****ing killed him.

Clearly, if it could become self aware, it was probably your fault for making it advanced enough to be able to think for itself. 

Creating something fully self aware and forcing it to be your slave is just plain worng. You should create something that is completely mindless if you really feel the need for a slave.

So no, that "Example" does not work at all.

[The Angry One]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

That's not a contradiction.

All that shows is that the first geth to rebel was a labor unit. 

If the Geth were used for war, why would the Quarians have so many soldiers?

[The Angry One]

tractrpl wrote...

Source. I've read the online codex and found no evidence of WMDs being used by either side.

How do you think Rannoch's atmosphere became toxic?

[T-0pel]

How manby babies do you think the Krogan killed?

[GnusmasTHX]

The Angry One wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

That's not a contradiction.

All that shows is that the first geth to rebel was a labor unit. 

If the Geth were used for war, why would the Quarians have so many soldiers?

Because it makes sense...

Especially in the scenes you saw, I'm pretty sure they would be minimizing geth use during the purge.

Modifié par GnusmasTHX, 16 avril 2012 - 08:39 .

[moater boat]

The Angry One wrote...

moater boat wrote...

The Angry One wrote...



We know Quarians sided with the Geth against their oppressive authorities.
How many did in the end? Thousands? Hundreds of thousands? Millions? We don't know, but the possibility is there. In fact, given the belligenerence of the Quarian authorities to this day, it's likely.

I don't know how many rebelled and joined the Geth, but I can tell you that I doubt there were many babies in that group, but still lots of them died. So I don't think your "they were killed by other quarians", theory holds much water.

The "intentionally murdering Quarian babies" thing is entirely in your head, Mr. Catalyst.
If the Quarian leadership deployed chemical weapons and inadvertantly poisoned their own world, those babies will die without intentional action from either faction.

It isn't just in my head. There is no way that there would be so much destruction without the methodical and precise genocide of the Quarians by the Geth. As it was said earlier, wiping out over 99% of a species like that doesn't "just happen" by misusing chemical weapons. It was an extermination of the Quarians, and the only culprit is the Geth. This one doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure out.