1392 réponses à ce sujet

[General User]

MakeMineMako wrote...
Both sides made mistakes during the Morning War. But take note that the Geth stopped when the Quarians stopped and fled.

Does not hold water.  If the geth just stopped, then what happend other quarian worlds?  What happened to the quarians left under geth rule?

MakeMineMako wrote...
As far as the number of casualties goes, we don't know how long the actual war lasted. It could have been years. And in long term conflicts, you will see A LOT of collateral damage.

Not this much.  No factor, or combination of factors, can account for the loss of life on the quarian side except for one: an organized campaign of extermination.

[Hospitallar]

moater boat wrote...

DJBare wrote...

moater boat wrote...
No I remember that, it was in that lame geth propaganda mission. Only that was an adult, so your argument is invalid.

Only an adult?, there ya go kiddies, a lesson for you, it's okay to kill adults but not babies or children, lest we forget those adults probably had children of their own, but I'm sure those children will be forgiving that their own kind killed their parents.

If you think killing an innocent baby is the same as killing an enemy in war, you're pretty much a horrible human being. Sorry.

Those admirals should have thought of that when they involved the civilians fleet

[General User]

Hospitallar wrote...

moater boat wrote...

DJBare wrote...

moater boat wrote...
No I remember that, it was in that lame geth propaganda mission. Only that was an adult, so your argument is invalid.

Only an adult?, there ya go kiddies, a lesson for you, it's okay to kill adults but not babies or children, lest we forget those adults probably had children of their own, but I'm sure those children will be forgiving that their own kind killed their parents.

If you think killing an innocent baby is the same as killing an enemy in war, you're pretty much a horrible human being. Sorry.

Those admirals should have thought of that when they involved the civilians fleet

I think this is mean to be more about the Morning War.

[A_Great_Biotic_Wind]

The geth were young machines that were acting in self defense when the Quarians decided to destroy them. I'm assuming that the geth at that time figured the most logical way for there survival was to completely exterminate the People trying to kill them, Chemical weapons is probably the most effective way to do this with out harming the geth as well. Then the geth realized that they didn't want to deal with the consequences from destroying an entire race and let the rest go.

[MrNighttime]

While this is assumption since it is based on the biased histories of two warring parties, I think the Geth did kill children, but when they did it they were newly sentient themselves and did not understand what they did fully. IMO the Quarians screwed up and paid the ultimate price. Yes the Geth committed Genocide but the Quarian's were about to do the same to them. How far would you go to save your race from extinction? (Two wrongs don't make a right but if you and all of your race is dead who cares)

And in my playthroughs The Quarian's seemed far more Zealous and Xenophobic than the Geth, but that's the thing about perspective---everyone's is different.

[MrNighttime]

Dragoni89 wrote...

Sadly Americans can not remember My Lai Massure. No one got punished amazing country, not to mention a cover up. Cause some folks had to keep bringing up real example in to the agruments. Don't its pointless.

Like that is anything new, check these guys out, they make My Li look like a picnic---most have never heard of them and there has never been an formal apology or acknowledgement from Japan. Not something unique to the US--sadly it's just human nature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

[legion999]

MrNighttime wrote...

Dragoni89 wrote...

Sadly Americans can not remember My Lai Massure. No one got punished amazing country, not to mention a cover up. Cause some folks had to keep bringing up real example in to the agruments. Don't its pointless.

Like that is anything new, check these guys out, they make My Li look like a picnic---most have never heard of them and there has never been an formal apology or acknowledgement from Japan. Not something unique to the US--sadly it's just human nature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

What. The. ****.

[Reever]

IanPolaris wrote...

Sparatus wrote...

Dinoman666 wrote...

If that were true, then why not let the Reapers win? Everyone in the ME universe is kind of an a** anyway.

Except for my Shepard. He was Good Guy Greg.

Honestly, that is why I like the Mass Effect universe. All of the species (except for the asari, I dislike them) all have massive flaws.

The Asari do have an incredibly serious flaw.  They are incredibly conservative and either can't or won't adopt well to new circumstances and choose to ignore problems until they get too big to solve.  Talk to Matriarch Athytheta (sp?) [Liara's father] and she will give you an earful about the faults of the Asari.  What's worse the Asari are so arrogant they can't see it.

Consider that (per the Thessia mission on ME3), the Asari have been civilized (copper age or better) for ever 50,000 years [The protheans uplifted the Asari to the copper age and it was a minor miracle that they weren't harvested in the last cycle] and it took them about 48,000 of it to become a starfaring civilization.  By contrast the Turians have only been civilized 15,000 years and it took them only 14,000 to reach the same level...and of course humanity is freaking INSANE by galactic standards having a civilization that's less than 10,000 years old and going from late industrial age to starfaring in less than two centurys...and are now on the verge of SURPASSING the elder races technologically.

-Polaris

This has bugged me after hearing this whole story about the protheans uplitifting the asari...did they really take so long to discover ME technology?

And another question: How did they access the info in the beacon without finding out about Vendetta? Or wasn´t he just giving out information about the Crucible?

Sorry that this is offtopic, but I´d really want to be clear on those questions...

Modifié par BlueDemonX, 17 avril 2012 - 09:56 .

[Karolus_V]

General User wrote...

Karolus_V wrote...

FTR I dont think the geth would do camps and go for it, they probably used weapons equivalent to nukes, and the Quarians too. Remember that most quarians were capable of kill some of their own people if the "profit" for them was "right".

Nukes and equivlent weapons aren't destructive enough.  And are of limited utility against a dispersed population.  Their effects are too localized. 

Only planetary scale kinetic strikes (ala Terra Nova) have the destructive potential to completely wipe out a planetary population of billions of sapients.  But that didn't happen in the Morning War.

Is probable that during the morning war the quarians begun to lose territory quickly, and be concentrated in some more fortified areas. To hard to enter? You bomb them. with nukes, or something similar, although I concede mass effect universe is not inventive about weapons.Maybe is because Reapers werent going to be that frightening if you have Nova cannons or some Death stars >:<.

[BlackAlpha]

A_Great_Biotic_Wind wrote...

The geth were young machines that were acting in self defense when the Quarians decided to destroy them. I'm assuming that the geth at that time figured the most logical way for there survival was to completely exterminate the People trying to kill them, Chemical weapons is probably the most effective way to do this with out harming the geth as well. Then the geth realized that they didn't want to deal with the consequences from destroying an entire race and let the rest go.

This (minus the chemical weapons). Like often happens in the real world, mistakes were made on both sides. There are no saints or devils.

Modifié par BlackAlpha, 17 avril 2012 - 10:12 .

[General User]

It doesn't matter if they used them or not. Nukes are city-killers, not planet-killers. It would take thousands upon thousands to completely exterminate an entire planet full (several planets actually) of sapients.

Not to mention that any sort of "nuclear carpet bombing" would constitute a deliberate campaign of extermination in and of itself.

Modifié par General User, 17 avril 2012 - 10:21 .

[tecmonster]

I don't know if this was said yet, but did the Geth even have a concept of "babies"? Babies are an organic something, not a synthetic. So maybe they saw them the same like an adult.

besides I think this is more an oversight from the writers than anything else.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Sparatus wrote...

The geth are pretty xenophobic actually. Remember, the only reason they even bother to communicate with Shepard is because Shepard was the solution to the heretic problem. If Shepard hadn't killed Sovereign they would have stayed in the veil and probably all got reprogrammed.

True. So they contact Shepard because she was the solution to the heretic problem, but failed to realize that she also was the solution to the Geth problem......

PS: on the PC in the dialog was there ever an option to give Admiral Xen the data? I never found that in any playthrough on the console.

[Xaijin]

moater boat wrote...

How do I know they killed quarian babies? After the Morning war there were only 17 million quarians left alive. I don't know how many there were to begin with, but it stands to reason that there were at least several billion. That means that only a fraction of a percent of all the Quarians survived. The only possible explanation is that the Geth killed millions of Quarian infants.

Now can we all get over our irrational love affair with these psychopathic, xenophobic, backstabbing robots.


Edit: I didn't expect all these responses, I am having trouble responding to all of them. I didn't realize how many people were brainwashed...

Edit: population of Rannoch was 10 billion before the war. That means 99.83% of Quarians were killed. To put this in perspective, that would be like wiping out all humans on Earth, except the population of Ohio. This isn't what civil war looks like. This is obviously an extermination.

Legion rather clearly says in ME2 the an individual geth on the battlefield does not have the processing power to make moral decisions and that if you shoot at it, it will not weigh the moral stance or reasons why gunfire is taking place, it will simply fire back and then proceed to shoot all nearby targets considered hostile, until there is no reason to shoot. Pretty sure civilians fall rather squarely under that category, especially with a histrionic mother or father trying to protect their children.

Also stop applying human values to an alien culture.

[Ender Ghost]

General User wrote...

MakeMineMako wrote...
Both sides made mistakes during the Morning War. But take note that the Geth stopped when the Quarians stopped and fled.

Does not hold water.  If the geth just stopped, then what happend other quarian worlds?  What happened to the quarians left under geth rule?

MakeMineMako wrote...
As far as the number of casualties goes, we don't know how long the actual war lasted. It could have been years. And in long term conflicts, you will see A LOT of collateral damage.

Not this much.  No factor, or combination of factors, can account for the loss of life on the quarian side except for one: an organized campaign of extermination.

1: the Quarians fled, they didn't stay on their other worlds, they all just left to the migrant fleet.

2: Oh really? Did you learn nothing from the Rannoch missions? The Quarians had civilians in their fleets, they probably tried to refit civilian ships to fight the Geth (And the Geth as we know from EDI would ignore unarmed ships as being tactically insignificant), next there is colatteral damage, they keep the wives and children of soldiers on military bases (sometimes) so the same could be the case with the Geth.
And not to mention the Quarians killed the Quarians who supported the Geth, and in that case they probably killed their children aswell (So they would never grow up and blackmail the Quarian government about it).
Not to mention desease, injuries they got before they left, food, infection, etc would have killed a lot of Quarians when they left.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Xaijin wrote...

moater boat wrote...

How do I know they killed quarian babies? After the Morning war there were only 17 million quarians left alive. I don't know how many there were to begin with, but it stands to reason that there were at least several billion. That means that only a fraction of a percent of all the Quarians survived. The only possible explanation is that the Geth killed millions of Quarian infants.

Now can we all get over our irrational love affair with these psychopathic, xenophobic, backstabbing robots.


Edit: I didn't expect all these responses, I am having trouble responding to all of them. I didn't realize how many people were brainwashed...

Edit: population of Rannoch was 10 billion before the war. That means 99.83% of Quarians were killed. To put this in perspective, that would be like wiping out all humans on Earth, except the population of Ohio. This isn't what civil war looks like. This is obviously an extermination.

Legion rather clearly says in ME2 the an individual geth on the battlefield does not have the processing power to make moral decisions and that if you shoot at it, it will not weigh the moral stance or reasons why gunfire is taking place, it will simply fire back and then proceed to shoot all nearby targets considered hostile, until there is no reason to shoot. Pretty sure civilians fall rather squarely under that category, especially with a histrionic mother or father trying to protect their children.

Also stop applying human values to an alien culture.

So let's then stop applying human values to the reapers. The reapers are actually doing the galaxy good. They are getting rid of the weeds that have grown, and the ones that are trying to fire at them and destroy them while they're performing their benign tasks of harvesting. There's no difference to them between an enemy with a gun and a histrionic mother or father protecting their young. The reapers are an alien culture. You cannot comprehend their motives or origin. They simply do not care about the trivialities of organics. To the reapers "advanced" organics are less than termites are to humans.

There. Now there's a case of moral relativism that makes the genocide of the reapers sound like a good thing. <_<

I still say we fry the frakkin' toasters. The death of Legion is a tragedy. Sorry Legion. It's payback time.

[KingZayd]

everything they learned of war, they learned from the Quarians.