1392 réponses à ce sujet

[General User]

Ender Ghost wrote...

General User wrote...

Ender Ghost wrote...

General User wrote...

Ender Ghost wrote...
There were no quarians under Geth control, they fled... I thought everyone knew that... guess not?

That doen not hold water.  There were billions of quarians on Rannoch alone, and they had other planets too.  The Migrant Fleet was simply not large enough to accomodate that number.

3.Civilians in the Quarian military fleets, bombing military targets in cities, scortched earth tactics (that the Quarians use to), ambushing convoys (which probably have civilians in them too) can all account for a lot of civilian death

But not enough.

4.But that, plus deaths caused by fellow Quarians, and the Quarian military personal that were killed (Plus those civilians who were either caught in the cross fire or used as meatshields by the Quarian government) probably can.

No it cannot.  There is simply not such thing as death on this scale unless someone meant for it to happen.

1. Not when they fled? By then they were, you know, loosing, and decided to leave? You know?

3. Um, plus number 4?

4.http://alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/large/misc-you-dont-say-l.png

I'm afraid I don't follow.  Would you mind using the "quote" feature?

Something tells me you're trolling at this point...

No, I legitimately have no idea what you're referring to.  Please use the "quote" feature.

Modifié par General User, 17 avril 2012 - 11:53 .

[KingZayd]

General User wrote...

KingZayd wrote...
 A bit of hardship vs genocide? there is a choice there, and the quarians made the wrong one.

It was well more thatn a bit of hardship.  Becoming clients of the Citadel Council would mean the loss of their independence and death of their culture.  That's simply not an acceptable option.

Well then sparing the monsters that are capable of such a massacre (they also executed geth sympathisers) is also NOT an option.

Those are individuals.  It is immoral to exterminate an entire race of people because of the actions of individual members of that race.

so did they think the  geth were sapient or not sapient? on what side is "becoming sapient".

It's on the "this has gone too far, we need to shut this down NOW" side.

if you're self aware, you're self aware. the quarians still want to exterminate the geth, therefore the quarians should die first.

Whoever reaches should die.

Loss of independence and death of culture against genocide? i'd say the former is more of an option than genocide.
"
this has gone too far, we need to shut this down NOW " either they are sapient, or they're not. which one?

"Those are individuals.  It is immoral to exterminate an entire race of people because of the actions of individual members of that race." and yet if you choose to exterminate either the quarians or the geth based on history, then that is exactly what you are doing. 

So now, given that peace is impossible, we have to make a choice. The quarians started this war, and therefore they deserve death more than the geth. sucks, but i did tell them not to.

[Darth Math 88]

Diablos2525 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

Just wanted to throw something in here.

When you side with Geth, Tali/Xen watch their people die in horror.

When you side with Quarian, Legion tries to KILL you.

Looking at it this way. Legion cares only or just cares more for his people than the entire war with the reapers. Hence he is willing to kill the only person that is doing his job to unite the galaxy to fight a common enemy.

Food for thought.

Tali then throws herself off a cliff. She doesn't choose to help you against the reapers. Legion cares about its race, as does Tali.

If all of humanity had just been killed by Robots who are now going to side with Shepard to fight other robots would you care? If you do what's the point? You have no homeworld, no women to have children with, none of your own people to share your cultures and values with. Besides the fact that you'd have side with the people who just killed your entire species. Um yea... Tali's people definitely have the moral high ground here in my opinion. They don't want to wipe out the Geth THEY WANT THEIR homeworld back. The Geth don't want to give it back and are willing to exterminate every last Quarian to see that through.

The Quarians directly targeting the Dyson Sphere says otherwise.

Not to mention you got the motivations of the Geth completely wrong. They're simply fighting for survival. For them, it's not about losing Rannoch because they don't even USE Rannoch.

[KingZayd]

Sparatus wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

and you killed those geth. I didn't get to kill those Quarians.

At least the quarians were actually helping me. In their own special way.

they decided i was an acceptable casualty. screw 'em

[General User]

[.q.u.o.t.e.]
[./.q.u.o.t.e.]

Just take out the periods.

[KingZayd]

hah! you said period!

[Spanking Machine]

I'm not sure if a race that was composed entirely of members who were "born" as fully formed adults would view babies in the same light that we do. They might just see them as an intermediate stage in the process of manufacturing new individuals.

[Ender Ghost]

KingZayd wrote...

hah! you said period(s)!

Fix'd

He know's he can only say "nu uh!" so many times, I'm done trying to argue with him.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Sparatus wrote...

Put yourself in the er, suits of the quarians.

Your computer is talking to you. It won't shutdown. It keeps asking scary questions. This computer is also a robot that has been used from everything from a tool of war to a miner. And there are more of them than you. A lot more.

Yeah, they seem pretty friendly at first. But how long will that last? Then let's add the Council into the equation. Even if you don't shut the geth down, the Council is going to come and make you shut them down and then it will cause an even bigger war.

Now. Look at from an in-universe perspective after the war. You don't know about the heretics. You don't know about Legion, all you know is that the geth are a hostile race of robots.

Also the geth aren't sapient. Legion may be. But the majority of the geth are not, not until the Reaper code upload. Sapient and sentient are two totally different words.

I would unplug my computer in a heart beat. If it wouldn't shut down I would shoot it. It's a machine, not a person. I didn't buy it to be a person. I bought it to be a labor saving mechanical device that would do certain tasks with a certain precision, not start thinking for itself.

Geth are not sapient unless they are in a large enough group and networked.

If Tali wouldn't become unloyal after the trial being acquitted because you used the evidence on the Alarei in her defense on her ME2 loyalty mission, I would have used it every time, because IMO her father's research was needed, but he made critical mistakes by failing to take necessary precautions (like having enough troops on board for security). Xen apparently recreated the experiment with appropriate countermeasures in place and found the key to the "evolved" geth intelligence.

Then WHY is Legion independent like it is? No one ever seems to question this. Legion even says something that it has heretic runtimes in this platform. Now what do you think that means? That means Legion is infected with the virus. That means Legion's judgement and anti-virus solution is flawed. That means that its flawed anti-virus solution gets broadcast to all Geth. So did your Paragon decision to do rewrite actually make all the geth believe as the heretics and just be more welcoming of Reaper help? That's a decision that came back to bite you in the ass.

[KingZayd]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Sparatus wrote...

Put yourself in the er, suits of the quarians.

Your computer is talking to you. It won't shutdown. It keeps asking scary questions. This computer is also a robot that has been used from everything from a tool of war to a miner. And there are more of them than you. A lot more.

Yeah, they seem pretty friendly at first. But how long will that last? Then let's add the Council into the equation. Even if you don't shut the geth down, the Council is going to come and make you shut them down and then it will cause an even bigger war.

Now. Look at from an in-universe perspective after the war. You don't know about the heretics. You don't know about Legion, all you know is that the geth are a hostile race of robots.

Also the geth aren't sapient. Legion may be. But the majority of the geth are not, not until the Reaper code upload. Sapient and sentient are two totally different words.

I would unplug my computer in a heart beat. If it wouldn't shut down I would shoot it. It's a machine, not a person. I didn't buy it to be a person. I bought it to be a labor saving mechanical device that would do certain tasks with a certain precision, not start thinking for itself.

Geth are not sapient unless they are in a large enough group and networked.

If Tali wouldn't become unloyal after the trial being acquitted because you used the evidence on the Alarei in her defense on her ME2 loyalty mission, I would have used it every time, because IMO her father's research was needed, but he made critical mistakes by failing to take necessary precautions (like having enough troops on board for security). Xen apparently recreated the experiment with appropriate countermeasures in place and found the key to the "evolved" geth intelligence.

Then WHY is Legion independent like it is? No one ever seems to question this. Legion even says something that it has heretic runtimes in this platform. Now what do you think that means? That means Legion is infected with the virus. That means Legion's judgement and anti-virus solution is flawed. That means that its flawed anti-virus solution gets broadcast to all Geth. So did your Paragon decision to do rewrite actually make all the geth believe as the heretics and just be more welcoming of Reaper help? That's a decision that came back to bite you in the ass.

Legion was designed specifically to house more platforms and therefore be independently intelligent on his scouting outside of geth space.

[ScaredPeach]

I haven't had a single Quarian shoot me yet, nor attempt to assassinate the counsel, nor work for the reapers. The shear existence of the Geth is just as threatening to the Quarians (and many other races) as a full scale war with their entire species. Its like the danger the Krogans gave before the Genophage, but worse since they can build themselves, be revived from the dead and turn enemy corpses into soldiers; all while Reaper pawns. NO EXCUSES. If this was a single person doing this, they would be executed for treason and war crimes. The Geth have a collective mind, so thus must be eliminated.

Modifié par ScaredPeach, 18 avril 2012 - 12:53 .

[KingZayd]

ScaredPeach wrote...

I haven't had a single Quarian shoot me yet, nor attempt to assassinate the counsel, nor work for the reapers. The shear existence of the Geth is just as threatening to the Quarians (and many other races) as a full scale war with their entire species. Its like the danger the Krogans gave before the Genophage, but worse since they can build themselves, be revived from the dead and turn enemy corpses into soldiers; all while Reaper pawns. NO EXCUSES. If this was a single person doing this, they would be executed for treason and war crimes. The Geth have a collective mind, so thus must be eliminated.

Gerrel and his subordinates shot at you while you were on the dreadnought. and the Quarians drove the Geth to the Reapers.

If the Reapers demanded the extinction of synthetics instead of organics, the Quarians would have allied with them just the same. 

Modifié par KingZayd, 18 avril 2012 - 12:58 .

[TheLostGenius]

if people were murdering all of your people, you would fight back. Kill every man woman and child. Nothing wrong with that in war.

[Meltemph]

Guys...I'm willing to bet that the writers didn't give near as much thought to this as you guys did. They have tried to portray the geth as victims and a newborn life. What we learn about the Geth and what you are forcing yourself to infer with this part of the story, really should be an indicator of how little the writers thought about this.

[ashwind]

ScaredPeach wrote...

I haven't had a single Quarian shoot me yet, nor attempt to assassinate the counsel, nor work for the reapers. The shear existence of the Geth is just as threatening to the Quarians (and many other races) as a full scale war with their entire species. Its like the danger the Krogans gave before the Genophage, but worse since they can build themselves, be revived from the dead and turn enemy corpses into soldiers; all while Reaper pawns. NO EXCUSES. If this was a single person doing this, they would be executed for treason and war crimes. The Geth have a collective mind, so thus must be eliminated.

Admiral Han Garrel

[Ender Ghost]

ashwind wrote...

ScaredPeach wrote...

I haven't had a single Quarian shoot me yet, nor attempt to assassinate the counsel, nor work for the reapers. The shear existence of the Geth is just as threatening to the Quarians (and many other races) as a full scale war with their entire species. Its like the danger the Krogans gave before the Genophage, but worse since they can build themselves, be revived from the dead and turn enemy corpses into soldiers; all while Reaper pawns. NO EXCUSES. If this was a single person doing this, they would be executed for treason and war crimes. The Geth have a collective mind, so thus must be eliminated.

Admiral Han Garrel

Not just him, but the whole damn heavy fleet! And the other admirals were okay with it too!

The entire Quarian race was okay (And worked together mind you) to shoot at you. Not even the Geth can say that.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

KingZayd wrote...

ScaredPeach wrote...

I haven't had a single Quarian shoot me yet, nor attempt to assassinate the counsel, nor work for the reapers. The shear existence of the Geth is just as threatening to the Quarians (and many other races) as a full scale war with their entire species. Its like the danger the Krogans gave before the Genophage, but worse since they can build themselves, be revived from the dead and turn enemy corpses into soldiers; all while Reaper pawns. NO EXCUSES. If this was a single person doing this, they would be executed for treason and war crimes. The Geth have a collective mind, so thus must be eliminated.

Gerrel and his subordinates shot at you while you were on the dreadnought. and the Quarians drove the Geth to the Reapers.

If the Reapers demanded the extinction of synthetics instead of organics, the Quarians would have allied with them just the same. 

Gerrel gave the order to fire on the dreadnought while you were on board. He did not fire at you. He was impatient, and thus he gets a kick in the 'nads and ordered off the Normandy, but I don't condemn the entire Quarian race because of the acts of one aging warhorse. If he'd waited a couple minutes longer for Shepard to be clear, then it would have been fine. Even Xen doesn't like him.

Some people (perhaps not you, but some) will use this as an excuse.

[Meltemph]

Sparatus wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

Guys...I'm willing to bet that the writers didn't give near as much thought to this as you guys did. They have tried to portray the geth as victims and a newborn life. What we learn about the Geth and what you are forcing yourself to infer with this part of the story, really should be an indicator of how little the writers thought about this.

Xen was supposed to be the one who looked at them like machines, and made points against their sapience.

But then, they cut most of Xen out of the game.

Doesnt change that any mission that you go on, that are about the "culture" of the geth, the writers try and portray them as victims.  Xen is there to play the "renegade" of them all.  The equivalent of that Star Trek episode, when a starfleet person tried to argue that Data, was essetnially a toaster.

[troyk2027]

Meltemph wrote...

Guys...I'm willing to bet that the writers didn't give near as much thought to this as you guys did. They have tried to portray the geth as victims and a newborn life. What we learn about the Geth and what you are forcing yourself to infer with this part of the story, really should be an indicator of how little the writers thought about this.

This, this whole thread is ridiculous.

[Ender Ghost]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

ScaredPeach wrote...

I haven't had a single Quarian shoot me yet, nor attempt to assassinate the counsel, nor work for the reapers. The shear existence of the Geth is just as threatening to the Quarians (and many other races) as a full scale war with their entire species. Its like the danger the Krogans gave before the Genophage, but worse since they can build themselves, be revived from the dead and turn enemy corpses into soldiers; all while Reaper pawns. NO EXCUSES. If this was a single person doing this, they would be executed for treason and war crimes. The Geth have a collective mind, so thus must be eliminated.

Gerrel and his subordinates shot at you while you were on the dreadnought. and the Quarians drove the Geth to the Reapers.

If the Reapers demanded the extinction of synthetics instead of organics, the Quarians would have allied with them just the same. 

Gerrel gave the order to fire on the dreadnought while you were on board. He did not fire at you. He was impatient, and thus he gets a kick in the 'nads and ordered off the Normandy, but I don't condemn the entire Quarian race because of the acts of one aging warhorse. If he'd waited a couple minutes longer for Shepard to be clear, then it would have been fine. Even Xen doesn't like him.

Some people (perhaps not you, but some) will use this as an excuse.

Do you remember the dialog between Gerrel and Koris? The entire Quarian race (Except for tali) were working together to shoot at you (and surprise surprise, they they almost killed you too). Now what if Shepard died from that? The Reapers would have won. Geth aint looking that bad now are they?

[the-cniht]

The answer is simple. Because Quarian Babies are tasty.

[Meltemph]

Sparatus wrote...

Is it not a sin to overanalyze the hell out of every choice in the game? Why then does Shepard not fly through the galaxy if not to be skerewet upon by'yon dragon's teeth.

Nothing wrong with overanalyzing, as long as peopple put what they are analyzing in context...like you know, the geth and quarians not REALLY existing, so you have to try and infer what the writers were trying to tell, story wise.