1392 réponses à ce sujet

[Ender Ghost]

G Kevin wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

Ender Ghost wrote...
But he didn't, if he did I'd reconsider, but consider we've seen nothing but good will from Legion whereas the Quarians are jumping in and almost killing you, your squad, and destroying the Normandy then... yeah...

Yea, I screwed up there. Meant to say, what if Legion killed you because you opted to side with the Quarians.

fair enough, by picking the Quarians, you're dooming the Geth. Why shouldn't he do what is necessary to protect his kind? I knew he was loyal, but that's asking a bit much isn't it?

In the same light, look at Tali. She did not try and stop you or Legion of the upload when you sided with the Geth. She just stood there and watched. She was just as loyal as Legion yet she allowed you to condemn her race. However, Legion tried to forcefully stop you.

ScaredPeach wrote...
Tali doesn't grap you by the neck and hang you over a cliff when her species is doomed. Food for thought:?

 

That's one way of putting it.

Thats exactly who I want fighting next to me when I go up against the reapers.

But really, there are just certain "submissive" people who will stand by and do nothing (Like Tali) and those people are usually frowned upon. Legion on the other hand wanted to preserve his race.

[G Kevin]

Ender Ghost wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

Ender Ghost wrote...
But he didn't, if he did I'd reconsider, but consider we've seen nothing but good will from Legion whereas the Quarians are jumping in and almost killing you, your squad, and destroying the Normandy then... yeah...

Yea, I screwed up there. Meant to say, what if Legion killed you because you opted to side with the Quarians.

fair enough, by picking the Quarians, you're dooming the Geth. Why shouldn't he do what is necessary to protect his kind? I knew he was loyal, but that's asking a bit much isn't it?

In the same light, look at Tali. She did not try and stop you or Legion of the upload when you sided with the Geth. She just stood there and watched. She was just as loyal as Legion yet she allowed you to condemn her race. However, Legion tried to forcefully stop you.

ScaredPeach wrote...
Tali doesn't grap you by the neck and hang you over a cliff when her species is doomed. Food for thought:?

 

That's one way of putting it.

Thats exactly who I want fighting next to me when I go up against the reapers.

But really, there are just certain "submissive" people who will stand by and do nothing (Like Tali) and those people are usually frowned upon. Legion on the other hand wanted to preserve his race.

Point was that Legion was willing to kill the only person that was working to stop the Reapers to save his own people.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

As soon as the shields were down on the dreadnought AND as soon as Shepard and team gave the clear signal, take out that dreadnought. Then on board the Normandy plot your course of action. That didn't happen. Instead he fires. You give Gerrel a kick in the groin and order him off the ship (if he had been Shepard's first officer I would have asked for his sidearm and shot him with it then gone about the meeting).

Allowing Legion to upload the Reaper code to the remaining Geth is just opening a can of worms. You can't recan it. They eventually will see their creators as flawed and limited while they will be able to continue programming themselves to have no limitations, and thus put themselves in a position to wipe out all organic life in the galaxy should they choose. The window of opportunity to end this once and for all was before Legion uploaded the code. They are stronger. They have no need for sleep or food. They have no need for air. They have no need for culture. Sorry Legion. (remember this is a Shepard who executed Shiala and Rana and pushed a random merc out a window, and made Jack shoot Aresh).

Maybe the Quarians learn now about creating AIs.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 18 avril 2012 - 01:47 .

[KingZayd]

G Kevin wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

Ender Ghost wrote...
But he didn't, if he did I'd reconsider, but consider we've seen nothing but good will from Legion whereas the Quarians are jumping in and almost killing you, your squad, and destroying the Normandy then... yeah...

Yea, I screwed up there. Meant to say, what if Legion killed you because you opted to side with the Quarians.

fair enough, by picking the Quarians, you're dooming the Geth. Why shouldn't he do what is necessary to protect his kind? I knew he was loyal, but that's asking a bit much isn't it?

In the same light, look at Tali. She did not try and stop you or Legion of the upload when you sided with the Geth. She just stood there and watched. She was just as loyal as Legion yet she allowed you to condemn her race. However, Legion tried to forcefully stop you.

ScaredPeach wrote...
Tali doesn't grap you by the neck and hang you over a cliff when her species is doomed. Food for thought:?

 

That's one way of putting it.

Not even Tali thinks her race is worth fighting for joking aside, I understand Legion's choice more than Tali's.

Modifié par KingZayd, 18 avril 2012 - 01:48 .

[Drummernate]

ScaredPeach wrote...

Tali doesn't grap you by the neck and hang you over a cliff when her species is doomed. Food for thought:?

But Tali also stabs one of the long time friends of yours in the back... literally.

He does not dangle you off the cliff, he merely lifts you up within 20 feet of the edge of the cliff, and your armor would protect your neck, so no harm done there. I assume that he would put you down and continue on after the code was done uploading. *If he didn't need to de-assimilate to do so...*

Basically he is just disabling you while he uploads the code.

How many times do the other squad mates get mad and point GUNS at you? Fully intending on shooting? *Cough* ASHLEY *Cough*.

In that case I did shoot her because it was an actual threat.

Tali made a crap choice to kill someone instead of just disabling him somehow.

Once again the Quarians are the aggressors while the Geth are being neutral.

Modifié par Drummernate, 18 avril 2012 - 01:47 .

[FatalX7.0]

Sparatus wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

This is kinda contradicted in ME 2 and 3.

No it isn't. He may show rudimentary emotions and feelings. But he is still a machine, and acts accordingly.

I don't know many machines who play online games and relationship simulators.

Though...they were like "training". He's a fail at trying to understand the Quarians, though. That seems like something Legion would say to be evasive and justify it, however. Like that, "hole".


Oh, and Legion's donation to Eden Prime after the Geth attack.

Modifié par FatalX7.0, 18 avril 2012 - 01:53 .

[G Kevin]

KingZayd wrote...

Not even Tali thinks her race is worth fighting for joking aside, I understand Legion's choice more than Tali's.

Or, maybe she respected Shepard's decision and allowed it to happen.

Drummernate wrote...

But Tali also stabs one of the long time friends of yours in the back... literally.

He does not dangle you off the cliff, he merely lifts you up within 20 feet of the edge of the cliff, and your armor would protect your neck, so no harm done there. I assume that he would put you down and continue on after the code was done uploading. *If he didn't need to de-assimilate to do so...*

Basically he is just disabling you while he uploads the code.

How many times do the other squad mates get mad and point GUNS at you? Fully intending on shooting? *Cough* ASHLEY *Cough*.

In that case I did shoot her because it was an actual threat.

Tali made a crap choice to kill someone instead of just disabling him somehow.

Once again the Quarians are the aggressors while the Geth are being neutral.

 

Tali stabbed Legion, it did not outright kill him. Why not shoot him instead? Plus, Legion was not uploading the code while he grabbed you. He was going to dispose of you. Legion put his race over the only person that could save the galaxy.

[ScaredPeach]

Drummernate wrote...

ScaredPeach wrote...

Tali doesn't grap you by the neck and hang you over a cliff when her species is doomed. Food for thought:?

But Tali also stabs one of the long time friends of yours in the back... literally.

He does not dangle you off the cliff, he merely lifts you up within 20 feet of the edge of the cliff, and your armor would protect your neck, so no harm done there. I assume that he would put you down and continue on after the code was done uploading. *If he didn't need to de-assimilate to do so...*

Basically he is just disabling you while he uploads the code.

How many times do the other squad mates get mad and point GUNS at you? Fully intending on shooting? *Cough* ASHLEY *Cough*.

In that case I did shoot her because it was an actual threat.

Tali made a crap choice to kill someone instead of just disabling him somehow.

Once again the Quarians are the aggressors while the Geth are being neutral.

Ashley also shot one of my long-time bestfriends in the back literally. She really is a terrible person <_<

Modifié par ScaredPeach, 18 avril 2012 - 01:52 .

[Ender Ghost]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

As soon as the shields were down on the dreadnought AND as soon as Shepard and team gave the clear signal, take out that dreadnought. Then on board the Normandy plot your course of action. That didn't happen. Instead he fires. You give Gerrel a kick in the groin and order him off the ship (if he had been Shepard's first officer I would have asked for his sidearm and shot him with it then gone about the meeting).

Allowing Legion to upload the Reaper code to the remaining Geth is just opening a can of worms. You can't recan it. They eventually will see their creators as flawed and limited while they will be able to continue programming themselves to have no limitations, and thus put themselves in a position to wipe out all organic life in the galaxy should they choose. The window of opportunity to end this once and for all was before Legion uploaded the code. They are stronger. They have no need for sleep or food. They have no need for air. They have no need for culture. Sorry Legion. (remember this is a Shepard who executed Shiala and Rana and pushed a random merc out a window, and made Jack shoot Aresh).

Maybe the Quarians learn now about creating AIs.

Wait! You mean they didn't see that during the Morning war? When you put it like that then they are just idiots (which, oddly enough, they aren't) they already saw their creators had flaws, they were already evolving, giving them the reaper code is just jumping ahead a while. If they hadn't had the reaper code the can of worms would have opened eventually.

[KingZayd]

G Kevin wrote...

Ender Ghost wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

Ender Ghost wrote...
But he didn't, if he did I'd reconsider, but consider we've seen nothing but good will from Legion whereas the Quarians are jumping in and almost killing you, your squad, and destroying the Normandy then... yeah...

Yea, I screwed up there. Meant to say, what if Legion killed you because you opted to side with the Quarians.

fair enough, by picking the Quarians, you're dooming the Geth. Why shouldn't he do what is necessary to protect his kind? I knew he was loyal, but that's asking a bit much isn't it?

In the same light, look at Tali. She did not try and stop you or Legion of the upload when you sided with the Geth. She just stood there and watched. She was just as loyal as Legion yet she allowed you to condemn her race. However, Legion tried to forcefully stop you.

ScaredPeach wrote...
Tali doesn't grap you by the neck and hang you over a cliff when her species is doomed. Food for thought:?

 

That's one way of putting it.

Thats exactly who I want fighting next to me when I go up against the reapers.

But really, there are just certain "submissive" people who will stand by and do nothing (Like Tali) and those people are usually frowned upon. Legion on the other hand wanted to preserve his race.

Point was that Legion was willing to kill the only person that was working to stop the Reapers to save his own people.

Yes, why should Legion care about saving your galaxy, if there is no place in it for his kind?

Modifié par KingZayd, 18 avril 2012 - 01:53 .

[G Kevin]

KingZayd wrote...

Yes, why should Legion care about saving your galaxy, if there is no place in it for his kind?

Why should Tali care about saving your galaxy, if there is no place in it for her kind?

See the problem?

Legion's actions are understandable but he put his race over the races of the ENTIRE galaxy. But we take a look at Tali and the Quarians, she basically accepted your decision and died with her people.

Ender Ghost wrote...

Wait! You mean they didn't see that during the Morning war? When you put it like that then they are just idiots (which, oddly enough, they aren't) they already saw their creators had flaws, they were already evolving, giving them the reaper code is just jumping ahead a while. If they hadn't had the reaper code the can of worms would have opened eventually.

 

Put it this way. The Geth would have upgraded themselves until they end up with the same logic as the reapers. Have you seen I, Robot? Eventually synthetics will see no use for organics and decide to get rid of them. Unless of course, they had a purpose.

Modifié par G Kevin, 18 avril 2012 - 02:00 .

[KingZayd]

G Kevin wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Not even Tali thinks her race is worth fighting for joking aside, I understand Legion's choice more than Tali's.

Or, maybe she respected Shepard's decision and allowed it to happen.

No, she begged you not to.  She was probably too shocked too react, and the guilt is why she killed herself. if she respects my decision to wipe out her people, then she's stupid.

[FatalX7.0]

G Kevin wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Yes, why should Legion care about saving your galaxy, if there is no place in it for his kind?

Why should Tali care about saving your galaxy, if there is no place in it for her kind?

See the problem?

Legion's actions are understandable but he put his race over the races of the ENTIRE galaxy. But we take a look at Tali and the Quarians, she basically accepted your decision and died with her people.

Throwing herself off a cliff doesn't seem like she accepted anything.

[Drummernate]

Sparatus wrote...

Uhhh, I've done the scene. Legion was clearly about the drop me off that cliff and kill me. I threatened his people. And when you threaten the geth, they kill you.

I have done it too... it seems like the Geth VI is more agressive than Legion.

Legion leaves like 5 feet to the edge, the Geth VI leaves like 2.

Also the Geth VI says it was right to not trust organics, while Legion just says no, I won't let you decide our fate.

Either way, being a jerk and not letting them upload it would make me mad too.

[KingZayd]

G Kevin wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Yes, why should Legion care about saving your galaxy, if there is no place in it for his kind?

Why should Tali care about saving your galaxy, if there is no place in it for her kind?

See the problem?

Legion's actions are understandable but he put his race over the races of the ENTIRE galaxy. But we take a look at Tali and the Quarians, she basically accepted your decision and died with her people.

she shouldn't. but then i didn't eliminate either race. I still would pick the geth if i had to choose though.

Tali and Legion should care about their races, enough to try and stop me when i destroy them.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Drummernate wrote...


But Tali also stabs one of the long time friends of yours in the back... literally.

Legion isn't a long time friend. Legion happened to be part of the squad for the suicide mission. Legion made contact with Shepard so Shepard could solve the heretic problem. In return it helped with the Suicide Mission. Quid pro quo. Legion is a machine that talks and can do complex reasoning. It is sapient. Sentient? I don't know if it can have subjective experiences. It is capable of logical thinking only. It doesn't have emotions, not until it has reaper code running in it in ME3 (but it disguises that from you).

Legion != long time friend. Garrus, Tali and you are long-time friends. Liara? :wub:

[Drummernate]

G Kevin wrote...


Tali stabbed Legion, it did not outright kill him. Why not shoot him instead? Plus, Legion was not uploading the code while he grabbed you. He was going to dispose of you. Legion put his race over the only person that could save the galaxy.

Stabbing them there kills Geth... if you do not shoot him he dies shortly after.

He was uploading the code as he spoke, the orb is only a visual representation, he doesn't "need" the orb to upload the code, that is why he closes it and then just sends himself to the Geth to finish.

What does the world matter to the Geth if they are all dead?...
They would be safe from Reapers even if the whole galaxy got destroyed. So they would still have a future if they killed Shepard.

[G Kevin]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Yes, why should Legion care about saving your galaxy, if there is no place in it for his kind?

Why should Tali care about saving your galaxy, if there is no place in it for her kind?

See the problem?

Legion's actions are understandable but he put his race over the races of the ENTIRE galaxy. But we take a look at Tali and the Quarians, she basically accepted your decision and died with her people.

Throwing herself off a cliff doesn't seem like she accepted anything.

She accepted that her race is dead and Shepard, the only person who has been a leading role model in her life, decided it was best for the Quarians to die. She was devastated and decided that she might as well die on her homeworld with her people.

[Cadeym]

The Quarian military killed most of those that protected the Geth to begin with. Which means that very few Quarians would have been left to oppose the military ruling. With that in mind they probably didn't leave the planet before all hope was lost, which implies that they fought up untill there were only a few million of them left.

As for Geth's killing children. I guess it's plausible that they could or would have done that. Children and babies are by all accounts the weakest link of any species. Parents throwing reason and logic out the window in an attempt to rescue their children makes for easy targets on the battlefield.

[G Kevin]

Drummernate wrote...

G Kevin wrote...


Tali stabbed Legion, it did not outright kill him. Why not shoot him instead? Plus, Legion was not uploading the code while he grabbed you. He was going to dispose of you. Legion put his race over the only person that could save the galaxy.

Stabbing them there kills Geth... if you do not shoot him he dies shortly after.

He was uploading the code as he spoke, the orb is only a visual representation, he doesn't "need" the orb to upload the code, that is why he closes it and then just sends himself to the Geth to finish.

What does the world matter to the Geth if they are all dead?...
They would be safe from Reapers even if the whole galaxy got destroyed. So they would still have a future if they killed Shepard.

If you wanted to stop someone from doing something quickly, what would be the best response? Legion needed to be disabled but what did Tali have at the time that could have done that?

[KingZayd]

G Kevin wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Yes, why should Legion care about saving your galaxy, if there is no place in it for his kind?

Why should Tali care about saving your galaxy, if there is no place in it for her kind?

See the problem?

Legion's actions are understandable but he put his race over the races of the ENTIRE galaxy. But we take a look at Tali and the Quarians, she basically accepted your decision and died with her people.

Throwing herself off a cliff doesn't seem like she accepted anything.

She accepted that her race is dead and Shepard, the only person who has been a leading role model in her life, decided it was best for the Quarians to die. She was devastated and decided that she might as well die on her homeworld with her people.

if she can just accept that, then that's a character flaw, not something to be lauded.