1392 réponses à ce sujet

[Robhuzz]

tractrpl wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Or the Quarian leadership used chemical weapons to kill the rebels who supported the Geth, inadvertantly poisoning their own world and killing millions due to their belligerence and stupidity.

/thread

Yes, where did you get this? I'm not supporting the Geth, I just never heard this. Truthfully, I assumed this whole thing was yet another plothole.

Plothole, oversight or just something left out intentionally since nitpicking over things like this gets us nowhere?

[Meltemph]

Wow...Some of you are giving the Geth, a lot of credit... I jsut cant see them being near as much of a threat without qutie a bit of help form Quarians, I mean, the Geth cant be near as intelligent as they are now, I would think. Hard to believe that the geth have stayed stagnant since the war.

[tractrpl]

The Angry One wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

Source. I've read the online codex and found no evidence of WMDs being used by either side.

How do you think Rannoch's atmosphere became toxic?

I don't see that in the online codex either.

[Legendaryred]

Somebody actually post the codex entries and all the convos with Legion and Tali word by word. Lets stop getting facts out of your ass people.

[The Angry One]

moater boat wrote...

It isn't just in my head. There is no way that there would be so much destruction without the methodical and precise genocide of the Quarians by the Geth. As it was said earlier, wiping out over 99% of a species like that doesn't "just happen" by misusing chemical weapons. It was an extermination of the Quarians, and the only culprit is the Geth. This one doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure out.

I've given numerous other scenarios. You just stick with the one that makes the Geth looks the worst due to your prejudice.

[tractrpl]

Meltemph wrote...

Wow...Some of you are giving the Geth, a lot of credit... I jsut cant see them being near as much of a threat without qutie a bit of help form Quarians, I mean, the Geth cant be near as intelligent as they are now, I would think. Hard to believe that the geth have stayed stagnant since the war.

They're intelligent enough to kill 10 billion quarians so yeah, I'd give them some credit.

[DJBare]

It would be so cool if people kept real life examples out of this and stick to the story.
And in the event it was missed
www.youtube.com/watch

[GnusmasTHX]

They tell you pretty much the only reason they let the quarians live was that they didn't know what it would mean to extinguish a race, and that they calculated they had enough to survive.

They probably killed everything else for the sake of machine efficiency.

[Vapaa]

The Angry One wrote...

Oh my god.

THEY
WOULD
USE
CHEMICAL
WEAPONS
AGAINST
OTHER
QUARIANS

WHY ?

Saying things in full caps doesn't makes them less silly, why would a military fully equipped drop bombs that can hurt themselves on civilians wich aren't even the bigger threat ?

And the vids in the Geth consesus shows them incarcerate or killing in "conventional" ways the resistants

The Angry One wrote...
Civilians which the Quarian authorities were more than willing to use extreme measures against.

Incarcerate or tossing grenades on them ? extreme ?

The Angry One wrote...
Baseless argument, nrext.

casualties in billions, 'nuff said

The Angry One wrote...
You're being deliberately obtuse aren't you?

see above

The Angry One wrote...
They used heavy explosives to kill one single protestor. So yes.

A grenade is a heavy explosive ? the Geth standing next to him even came out of it alive

[tractrpl]

The Angry One wrote...

moater boat wrote...

It isn't just in my head. There is no way that there would be so much destruction without the methodical and precise genocide of the Quarians by the Geth. As it was said earlier, wiping out over 99% of a species like that doesn't "just happen" by misusing chemical weapons. It was an extermination of the Quarians, and the only culprit is the Geth. This one doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure out.

I've given numerous other scenarios. You just stick with the one that makes the Geth looks the worst due to your prejudice.

What prejudice? I brokered a peace between the quarians and the geth. I'm pointing out that it's a very gaping plot hole. Bioware never thought of the ramifications of the mechanics necessary to kill 99.83% of a population spread throughout many planets.

[Meltemph]

tractrpl wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

Wow...Some of you are giving the Geth, a lot of credit... I jsut cant see them being near as much of a threat without qutie a bit of help form Quarians, I mean, the Geth cant be near as intelligent as they are now, I would think. Hard to believe that the geth have stayed stagnant since the war.

They're intelligent enough to kill 10 billion quarians so yeah, I'd give them some credit.

Again, I'd argue they would need some serious help at that point to do that.  I mean, I guess, the quarians could be owned by half the intelligence of the current geth... just seems hard for me to picture I guess.

[The Angry One]

tractrpl wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

Source. I've read the online codex and found no evidence of WMDs being used by either side.

How do you think Rannoch's atmosphere became toxic?

I don't see that in the online codex either.

Christ does nobody do their own research?

www.youtube.com/watch

[Elyiia]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

They tell you pretty much the only reason they let the quarians live was that they didn't know what it would mean to extinguish a race, and that they calculated they had enough to survive.

They probably killed everything else for the sake of machine efficiency.

Which raises the question, can you blame something for doing what it's programming told it to do?

[moater boat]

tractrpl wrote...


Yes, this is most likely correct. There's no way you can account for the slaughter of 99.83% of all quarians. No way. There's no evidence of nuclear war on the planet, so the only way this could have happened is house to house, cave by cave search, hunt, and eliminate. Like what you see in the Terminator movies.

EXACTLY

This can't be chalked up to chemical weapons or a civil war. The casualty rate is just too astronomical. Even the bloodiest wars usually result in a majority of the loosing military surviving. To see a casualty rate that high amongst an entire civilian population.. That's not war, it's extermination.

[Meltemph]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

They tell you pretty much the only reason they let the quarians live was that they didn't know what it would mean to extinguish a race, and that they calculated they had enough to survive.

They probably killed everything else for the sake of machine efficiency.

They were just coming into sentience at this point, all they knew was self defense.  what purpose would it serve the geth to wipe things out just cause?  They were removing a threat at this point.

[T-0pel]

tractrpl wrote...

Don't get me wrong, I was delighted to establish peace between the quarians and the geth. However, the excuse that the geth were "just defending themselves" is very shaky. That's like saying Hitler decimated 7 million Jews cause they were "just defending themselves".

What? Hitler was a racist xenophobic agressor who embraced war. Jews did not attack him in any way he just hated them and decided that only Germans are worthy of being alive.

Geth on the other hand were attacked in their infant state and faced a total annihilation. Defending against this is justified by any means necessary. On their infant state I dont think they could understand a difference between kids and adults. We dont know how that war went, but obviously Quarians refused to surrender under any cirumstances.

And Geth had a chance to commit complety genocide but chose not to.

Modifié par T-0pel, 16 avril 2012 - 08:59 .

[DJBare]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

They tell you pretty much the only reason they let the quarians live was that they didn't know what it would mean to extinguish a race, and that they calculated they had enough to survive.

They probably killed everything else for the sake of machine efficiency.

At this point the geth motivation is moot, the quarians initiated an attack on the geth when it was not needed, to take back their home world?, again, no attempt at negotiation, just attack, yet we see it's possible to get the quarians and the geth to cooperate, all because Shepard acted as the negotiator, see, negotiation apparantly works according to Shepard.

[GnusmasTHX]

Meltemph wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

They tell you pretty much the only reason they let the quarians live was that they didn't know what it would mean to extinguish a race, and that they calculated they had enough to survive.

They probably killed everything else for the sake of machine efficiency.

They were just coming into sentience at this point, all they knew was self defense.  what purpose would it serve the geth to wipe things out just cause?  They were removing a threat at this point.

Is that supposed to be for or against them? Because "they murdered billions of people because they didn't know any better" is a shoddy excuse.

Especially when they have full access to the internet.

[moater boat]

Elyiia wrote...

moater boat wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

The Geth were never made to be kill-bots, they don't understand the concept of prisoners.
Also if I was a betting man I would put money on the majority of civilian casualties being because of Quarians or lost land rather than being executed.

Finally, the war is the Quarians fault. Fact.
It was started by the Quarians. Fact.
It ended when the Quarians stopped attacking/left. Fact.

Every single casualty in the war was the fault of the Quarians, not the Geth.

It is not a fact that it is the Quarians fault. The geth were machines that the Quarians were trying to turn off. The machines were supposed to do what they were told, but they didn't. They broke free from their control and rebelled. The Geht started the war and are to blame for not doing what they were told. The fact that the Geth didn't pursue is irrelevant. They still attacked every ship that came near them for the next 300 years.

Seriously? It's a fact the war is the fault of the Quarians. If your government told you to kill yourself for no reason would you do it? That's exactly what the Quarians did. At that point Geth were no longer tools but actually AIs. The Geth only rebelled as a defensive responsive.

The implied reason for the Geth shooting at every ship that came near is the fact that every encounter they've had with organics until Shepard has tried to kill them.

It's the Quarians fault as is the blame for every single death.

Failed analogy. I am a person. Geth were not. They weren't considered truly alive until they all get the reaper code in ME3. This is clearly stated in a cutscene. They were still just machines, and therefor should have done what they were told.

[The Angry One]

[quote]Vapaä wrote...

WHY ?

Saying things in full caps doesn't makes them less silly, why would a military fully equipped drop bombs that can hurt themselves on civilians wich aren't even the bigger threat ?[/quote]

Why would a military use high explosives to murder one single civilian?

[quote]And the vids in the Geth consesus shows them incarcerate or killing in "conventional" ways the resistants[/quote]

Beatings acceptable now are they?
Also, again, the bomb.

[quote]Incarcerate or tossing grenades on them ? extreme ? [/quote]

... you think using grenades on civilians is acceptable? 
To say nothing of the fact that it was a large bomb.

[quote]casualties in billions, 'nuff said[/quote]

With an indeterminate cause. 'nuff said.

[quote]

[quote]A grenade is a heavy explosive ? the Geth standing next to him even came out of it alive[/quote]

They were both behind barricades, and the Quarian still died. The Geth was damaged, indicated by the floating pixels.

[Tony208]

When did speculation become fact?

[KingKhan03]

Tony208 wrote...

When did speculation become fact?

Delicious Speculations for all.

[DJBare]

The Angry One wrote...

Christ does nobody do their own research?

www.youtube.com/watch

Nah, they prefer to ignore it or their argument becomes weak.

[tractrpl]

The Angry One wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

Source. I've read the online codex and found no evidence of WMDs being used by either side.

How do you think Rannoch's atmosphere became toxic?

I don't see that in the online codex either.

Christ does nobody do their own research?

www.youtube.com/watch

Toxins left behind by war doens't imply deliberate chemical warfare. Plus, this very clip highlights the reason why the entire premise for killing 99.83% of all quarians pretty much ludicrous. The Geth had no reason to stay on Rannoch. At any time they could have fled Rannoch, and made their homes on space stations. It would have been easier for them, anyway. But no, they decided to eliminate 99.83% of all quarians. It doens't make sense.