1392 réponses à ce sujet

[KingZayd]

TheLostGenius wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

From what we know, both sides are right with their reasoning and wrong galactically.

In the end, you either make peace or are a monster. Every time I see a Quarian/Geth conflict discussion, it goes nowhere. Rather, Everyone just starts arguing with each other over who deserves to live. Maybe there would have been a discussion if peace was not an option but it is. So why the hate?

because Gerrel and I? we have unfinished business.

You get to kill Gerrel if you betray the Quarians and genocide them. SO yes, my Gerrel hate is strong enough to justify the death of all Quarians and Tali's suicide. 

after the reapers are dealt with, i'm coming for him. If i can't make it, Garrus will go in my place.

[SerraAdvocate]

It's quite possible the Geth were changed tremendously by Legion's influence between ME2 and ME3. Shepard was the first organic to agree to work with the Geth, but Legion was also the first Geth platform to agree to work with organics. And all the experience Legion gained working with Shepard would have been conveyed to the rest of the Geth the first time it rejoined the consensus.

Before Shepard, maybe the Geth did believe that conflict was inevitable, as their experience certainly taught them that was the case. After Shepard, maybe they didn't.

[KingZayd]

General User wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

Guys...I'm willing to bet that the writers didn't give near as much thought to this as you guys did. They have tried to portray the geth as victims and a newborn life. What we learn about the Geth and what you are forcing yourself to infer with this part of the story, really should be an indicator of how little the writers thought about this.

You're right, the creative team clearly didn't intend to include in their narrative the fact that the geth, during and/or after the Morning War, exterminated the quarian people en masse.  But it is in there nonetheless.

If something is put into a story by mistake is it still part of the story?  I say: yes. 

considering you get the geth's side of the story from the Geth, that makes perfect sense. It's written fine.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

OP you should know Quarians were also fighting Quarians in that war

[Skirlasvoud]

Helm505 wrote...

It's quite possible the Geth were changed tremendously by Legion's influence between ME2 and ME3. Shepard was the first organic to agree to work with the Geth, but Legion was also the first Geth platform to agree to work with organics. And all the experience Legion gained working with Shepard would have been conveyed to the rest of the Geth the first time it rejoined the consensus.

Before Shepard, maybe the Geth did believe that conflict was inevitable, as their experience certainly taught them that was the case. After Shepard, maybe they didn't.

Nope, sorry. In one playthrough I sold legion and in the other I never activated him. Game doesn't change and nothing is shown of that tremendous influence. All of it is speculation.

[Iluvantir]

It's stated in that "Tron-like mission" where Shep goes into the Geth's funny looking world... there were MANY Quarians who supported the geth, and so the Morning War was not just Quarian vs Geth, but Quarian vs Quarian as well.

Who's to say that the reason for the escape wasn't due to some nuclear or biological weapon that one side or the other of the Quarian's launched?

Simply put, we have a lack of information (no surprise there... speculate more, anyone?) so judgement calls such as this shouldn't be made.

What is known is that the Geth did not start either war, and when the Morning War started they did not want to exterminate their parent race - although we are told it was due to not knowing what the universe's reaction would be rather than altruism...

But have they learnt more since?

Again, we don't have the information - common refrain for ME3, it seems... *sigh*

[EnerPrime]

It's funny that some people are insisting that the Geth can't lie in the consensus. Even if you exclude lies of omission, the fact is that Legion in ME2 states that Geth don't lie in consensus just as you find out that some geth are, in fact, lying in the consensus. If the heretics can do it there's nothing stopping Legion. It's not a hardwired thing that geth can't get around, they just usually choose not to.

Every single thing Legion shows you in consensus could be a lie. And even if what we see is all true, the fact remains that Legion probably would have 'neglected' to show anything that shows geth in a negative light. Just like he 'neglected' to inform you of the fact that he's got reaper code in him.

[Drummernate]

EnerPrime wrote...

Legion probably would have 'neglected' to show anything that shows geth in a negative light. Just like he 'neglected' to inform you of the fact that he's got reaper code in him.

He DID inform you of it....

He just waited a while so you wouldn't start fighting before you helped him on Rannoch.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Well I don't have to worry about Legion this time.

Apparently in ME2 you're supposed to ask Legion about its consensus every time instead of saying "let's get going." And you're supposed to say at least one time "that it's unethical to force people to think...." at least once, or something along those lines to get the blue or orange conversation with Tali and Legion. So, after blowing the heretic base, even with Renegade at 100% I got neither option with Legion and sided with Tali in the AI core. Thus to prevent Legion from sending that information about the Migrant Fleet to the Geth after the mission, I sent it through the ducts. Bye Bye Legion. Legion gets a nice parcel package to send to Xen for study. Already have the "all survived" achievement.

Sisters stick together.

Funny thing -- telling Tali to stand down was the "paragon choice." Telling Legion to stand down was the "renegade choice."

[Starshadow2010]

DinoSteve wrote...

OP you should know Quarians were also fighting Quarians in that war

Just because some Quarians tried to protect the Geth, that does not mean that their numbers were that high, or they were ready to protest with weapons in their hands.
Some Geth-sympathetic people saw some examples of Quarians protecting the Geth, and now are using those examples to put part of blame for direct participation in genocide of Quarians on Quarians themselves.

[Drummernate]

Starshadow2010 wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

OP you should know Quarians were also fighting Quarians in that war

Just because some Quarians tried to protect the Geth, that does not mean that their numbers were that high, or they were ready to protest with weapons in their hands.
Some Geth-sympathetic people saw some examples of Quarians protecting the Geth, and now are using those examples to put part of blame for direct participation in genocide of Quarians on Quarians themselves.

Well under martial law they could kill any Quarians that were harboring Geth. I doubt many of them did so under penalty of death, but the effect is still there.

[Headrusher]

I'm just gonna point out to you folks that think the Geth is the devil incarnate... you can pick the "destroy" ending and kill them all. Plus Shepard gets to live, and Bioware gets to keep their "artistic integrity". Win-win-win.

/thread.

[Starshadow2010]

Drummernate wrote...

Well under martial law they could kill any Quarians that were harboring Geth. I doubt many of them did so under penalty of death, but the effect is still there.

Still, such casualties would be a minor percentage of total Quarian casualties, up tho the point where we may not take them into account.

[Rafe34]

moater boat wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Or the Quarian leadership used chemical weapons to kill the rebels who supported the Geth, inadvertantly poisoning their own world and killing millions due to their belligerence and stupidity.

/thread

I don't remember this in the codex...

It's told to you during the Geth mission on Rannoch. The Quarians killed their own if they were harboring Geth. It was less of a Geth v. Quarian conflict, at least for the most part, and more of a Quarian sympathizers vs Quarian establishment conflict.

[Rafe34]

Starshadow2010 wrote...

Drummernate wrote...

Well under martial law they could kill any Quarians that were harboring Geth. I doubt many of them did so under penalty of death, but the effect is still there.

Still, such casualties would be a minor percentage of total Quarian casualties, up tho the point where we may not take them into account.

Possibly. No one's saying the Geth are completely paladin-like in this war. They were fighting for their survival. Things are rarely black and white. The Geth committed atrocities during the war as well, though not for the same motives as organics might. It doesn't excuse the Quarians for trying to pre-emptively commit genocide.

[Rafe34]

111987 wrote...

Ender Ghost wrote...

111987 wrote...

Wolven_Soul wrote...

As for them attacking other ships, they were defending their territory.

From people that they didn't know were a threat, and as far as we know, made no aggressive actions. Not a great way to make peace, as their purported desires are.

Colony ships? They were going to steal the home world of the creators.
Mining ships? Going to steal the Geth's (or the Quarians) resources.
Ships with armaments? Why would they be armed if they didn't mean any harm.

The nature of the ships wasn't specified. All we know is that any ship that tried to 'contact' the Geth was destroyed. Presumably some of those had hostile intent, but not all of them. The thing is, the Geth didn't even bother to find out. They just wanted to be left alone...which contradicts the idea that they wanted peace, at least until the events of the trilogy.

Not to mention the Geth didn't do anything to stop Sovereign, which is another serious mistake they made.

Point is, the Geth and Quarians both share blame for the situation.

It doesn't contradict it at all.

They may not have fully understand that killed organic "platforms" was murder. Regardless, the only organic race they knew- the Quarians, had tried to kill them for absolutely no reason at all. They didn't want anything to do with any organic race.

[Ender Ghost]

General User wrote...

Trikormadenadon wrote...

CaptainZaysh wrote...

I've often wondered why certain people forgive this so glibly, yet regard the quarian actions as so inconscionably monstrous. I suspect it's got something to do with a person's real life politics.

I think it's more to do with the fact that the Quarians brought the war upon themselves so there is no sympathy for what happened to them.

Such is the mindset of the zealot.

So jews are zealots (Haha, see what I did there?) because they have no sympathy for Hitler?

[Ender Ghost]

Sparatus wrote...

Ender Ghost wrote...

So jews are zealots (Haha, see what I did there?) because they have no sympathy for Hitler?

Why did you have to bring Hitler into this?

What is wrong with you?

It was an analogy?
He said that only zealots would have no sympathy for the Quarians, which is kinda funny to be honest.

[Rip504]

Also for those who do not understand. The Geth joining the Reapers is the concrete in the Starchild's statement.
OO But the Quarians made the Geth do it. Duh that's one of the points. An Organic race created Synthetics,then tried to kill the synthetics. The Synthetics then rose together and were willing to do whatever it took to survive.Be it killing the Organic Quarians or by Killing all Organics with the Reapers, which is the way they(Geth) chose to do "defend" and "survive". Hence the Starchild's statement is taking place during our cycle.

[General User]

Ender Ghost wrote...
So jews are zealots because they have no sympathy for Hitler?

Hitler was a person, not a race.

Ender Ghost wrote...
(Haha, see what I did there?)

Do you?

[Ender Ghost]

General User wrote...

Ender Ghost wrote...
So jews are zealots because they have no sympathy for Hitler?

Hitler was a person, not a race.

Ender Ghost wrote...
(Haha, see what I did there?)

Do you?

Well then the ****'s, does anyone have sympathy for them? Does anyone have sympathy for the agressors? Are we all just zealots?

As for my remark, I'm surprised you aren't that up on your history, most war vets I've seen were more intellegent then the average person. Well there's a first for everything I guess. /sarcasm

Anyways my point is that saying that people with no sympathy for the quarians are zealots is just wrong, the geth told them through legion that they were ready to make peace with the Quarians but they attacked again and again, how much sympathy can you have for them? I would have had sympathy for the ones that said it was a bad idea, but we all saw what the rest of the Quarians did to them.

Modifié par Ender Ghost, 19 avril 2012 - 12:10 .

[General User]

Ender Ghost wrote...
Well then the ****'s, does anyone have sympathy for them?

Nazi's not so much,  WWII-era Germans on the other hand, very much so.

Ender Ghost wrote...
Does anyone have sympathy for the agressors?

Depends why they're "aggressing."

Ender Ghost wrote...
Are we all just zealots?

Some more than others.

Ender Ghost wrote...
As for my remark, I'm surprised you aren't that up on your history, most war vets I've seen were more intellegent then the average person. Well there's a first for everything I guess.

Oh?

[Darth Spike]

I agree with The Angry One. We saw how the Quarians treated their own kind who defended the Geth. They shot they, heck they even blew them up. The military didn't care as long as they got the Geth units. It wouldn't have surpirzed me if they unintentionally kill a few kids or babies because they didn't think things through.

Either that or they did a whole Roman empire thing. Let me explain that so there is no missunderstanding. When the Roman Empire was going strong they attacked anyone and anyplace they could to control everything. The people they attacked knew what the Romans did to the people. They did things that makes warcrimes today look tame. So in order to spare their loved ones form that, they killed them. They do a Medea and 'save them from the unkindness of the world.'


P.S. Sorry if i bored anyone. I love Greek Mythology.

[Ender Ghost]

General User wrote...

Ender Ghost wrote...
Well then the ****'s, does anyone have sympathy for them?

Nazi's not so much,  WWII-era Germans on the other hand, very much so.

Ender Ghost wrote...
Does anyone have sympathy for the agressors?

Depends why they're "aggressing."

Ender Ghost wrote...
Are we all just zealots?

Some more than others.

Ender Ghost wrote...
As for my remark, I'm surprised you aren't that up on your history, most war vets I've seen were more intellegent then the average person. Well there's a first for everything I guess.

Oh?

So you ignored the second half of my post? Mature...

And I was speaking about the ****'s, the WW-2 era Germans would be considered as the Quarians who did not want to kill the Geth (For the obvious similarities.)
And really your arguement about the Quarians not being the aggressors is just funny, it makes me question if you even played the game or not.