1392 réponses à ce sujet

[Ender Ghost]

Drummernate wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

no more discussion to be had. So instead, its much more enjoyable (for me at least) to watch posts go back and forth.

The whole off-topic thing is just a result of the lack of anything else to discuss.

/Agree

So fun to watch them be going from:
to
<_< followed by
then
after which they are still
and finally to

We have nothing to talk about because the OP asked the one question that we have hardly any info about, they touched on it just enough in ME3 to create these debates but not enough to actually keep these conversations going for too long.

Speculation is usually good... but not like this... not when it becomes

[G Kevin]

I am sure at this point nobody wants any more 

Modifié par G Kevin, 19 avril 2012 - 03:41 .

[Ender Ghost]

G Kevin wrote...

I am sure at this point nobody wants any more 

Bioware should have hired Billy Mayes before he died for their PR department, then people wouldn't have enough

[G Kevin]

Ender Ghost wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

I am sure at this point nobody wants any more 

Bioware should have hired Billy Mayes before he died for their PR department, then people wouldn't have enough

True Story. 

[Ender Ghost]

G Kevin wrote...

Ender Ghost wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

I am sure at this point nobody wants any more 

Bioware should have hired Billy Mayes before he died for their PR department, then people wouldn't have enough

True Story. 

You know it.

[Drummernate]

No.... they need to hire Sham-Wow dude.

Guaranteed to make you say wow every time!

[Ender Ghost]

Drummernate wrote...

No.... they need to hire Sham-Wow dude.

Guaranteed to make you say wow every time!

No they already have him working at there, thats where the endings came from.

Except its scam wow lol.

Alright, this got derailed bad, back on topic or should we just let it die?

[Jestina]

Quarian babies....like clay pigeons for rifle practice.

[Daforth]

moater boat wrote...

thewalrusx wrote...

and you know for certain that the geth killed 99% of the quarians how?

because of math...

You can pull any math you want, that does not change the facts, which are:

1. Quarians created the geth
2. When geth became sentient quarians started to kill them, what they started IS a genocide.
3. Geth acted by self-preservation not vengence.
4. When quarians left they let them (no vengence)
5. Even after all these geth (with help of Shepard) still wiling to co-exist peacefully with quarians

In a sense, quarians commited two genocides, one against their creation and against themselves as they cannot handle the situation other than aggression which had dire consequences.

Geth >>>>> Quarians

Modifié par Daforth, 19 avril 2012 - 07:16 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Daforth wrote...

moater boat wrote...

thewalrusx wrote...

and you know for certain that the geth killed 99% of the quarians how?

because of math...

You can pull any math you want, that does not change the facts, which are:

1. Quarians created the geth
2. When geth became sentient quarians started to kill turn them off, what they started IS  is not a genocide.
3. Geth acted by self-preservation not vengence.
4. When quarians left they let them (no vengence)
5. Even after all these geth (with help of Shepard) still wiling to co-exist peacefully with quarians

In a sense, quarians commited two genocides, one against their creation and against themselves as they cannot handle the situation other than aggression which had dire consequences.

Geth >>>>> Quarians

The geth are sentient, yes. But they are not sapient.

Sentient: responsive to or conscious of sense impressions

Sapient: ability to express or possess sagacity

Living creatures are able to respond to things they perceive with their with their senses. Stimulus/response. Sapience requires the ability to reason.

If the Geth were truly sapient they would have understood that massacring the billions of Quarians (and yes some was done by the Quarians themselves) was genocide. Yet they had no concept of such. The Geth were simply repeating questions they heard the Quarians debating among themselves and asked the Quarians those same questions.

They only became sentient because the Quarians made too many of them. Individually the Geth are no more intelligent than say a chicken, and chickens are probably one of the dumbest animals on the earth. Geth gain intelligence by networking with one another. When enough of them are networked they gain limited sapience and are able to do more complex tasks. When too many of them get networked together the become sentient, yet are still not capable of abstract thinking which defines sapience.

I do not call this no vengeance. The Geth are machines. They are equipment, just like EDI. Don't get me started about unshackling an AI. Honestly the thought of an EDI scares the crap out of me. If my computer started asking me those questions, I'd turn the frakking thing off and unplug it.

So if you wish to give the Geth this same quality of sapience, then with that quality comes the same responsibility. The Geth therefore are also guilty of genocide. There's a lot of finger pointing that can be done as to who is more guilty. Shepard can enforce peace. Shepard can allow the Geth to become more powerful, but the bad "blood" between the two sides won't end without the choosing the Green or Red ending or the annihilation of one side or the other.

So you don't know how the story ends. All you know is that the peace is only going to be temporary until the Reaper war is over. It's an alliance of convenience "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" until it's over assuming you win then all bets are off. And you can bet that the now highly intelligent fully AI Geth are going to get the Quarians fully dependent upon them. The thing about the Geth is that they can keep building more and more of themselves and there's nothing organics can do to stop them short of going to war.

And honestly since the Geth have no moral compass or philosophy, I'd just as soon wipe them out while we have the chance. Nor will they after they upload the reaper code. So Shepard thinks about how many Alliance marines and civilians have been killed by the Geth, and how many Alliance marines and civilians have been killed by the Quarians. It's a simple choice. Don't allow Legion or the Geth VI to upload the reaper code.

[Orumon]

moater boat wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

Guys, guys, the whole thing is just a plot hole, ok? This is something the writers obviously didn't think very far through. Yes, we're supposed to think that the quarians were the initial aggressors and that they sort of brought it on themselves. Yes, this is canonically correct. However, I can say in good confidence that the writers merely didn't think very far through what killing 99.83% of all quarians means.

But I NEVER thought that the Quarians were the initial aggressors. It pissed me off to no end in ME1 where Tali tells you about the morning war and your 2 allowed responses are "They were just defending themselves" or "OMG You quarians are all horrible and should die" Where's they option for, "Hey, I'm sorry about the genocide your people experienced at the hands of malfunctioning machines."

Then you not only ignore what the game lore says, but what the characters say to begin with. Tali herself establishes that the Geth were just asking the disturbing who am I, what am I existentialism questions which panicked the Quarians. The quarians quickly made the choice to shut down all Geth (sound, if ruthless), but the Geth turned out to already be sentient.

Then the Quarians initiated conflict, which can be considered sensible or repulsive depending on your beliefs on pre-emptive strikes. You can rightly call her and all quarians out on this.

It's all on the Quarians, I'm afraid. Every death was caused because they wouldn't stop. As for the babies? Starved to death or died from exposure most likely.

Horrific, but expected.

[Pelle6666]

Who cares, it was a war.

[ericjdev]

Quarians are bloodthitsty, genocidal and self destructive. Despite a massive list of atrocities the Geth are still willing not just to move past it but want to assist them. Geth are good guys, Quarians are bad guys.

[moater boat]

OP here

I'm about 15 pages behind, and as much as I would like to continue to argue with everyone who disagrees with me, I don't have the time. Besides, all I see are the same failed arguments.

Either the silly claim that the quarians did most of killing, which has no evidence whatsoever, or the whole "they had it coming" argument. Even if this was the case, it is not the point of this discussion, as I don't think any decent person would lay blame on innocent babies.

The bottom line is that we know enough about the morning war and quarian populations to know that millions and millions of quarian babies died, and we have no reason whatsoever to suspect that the quarians were responsible for all, or even most of those deaths.

People can keep arguing if they like, but I have yet to see any sort of argument that disproves the idea that the Geth slaughtered innocent babies. I'm done with this thread. You are all more than welcome to continue to post the same nonsense that has already been said over and over.

[KingZayd]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Daforth wrote...

moater boat wrote...

thewalrusx wrote...

and you know for certain that the geth killed 99% of the quarians how?

because of math...

You can pull any math you want, that does not change the facts, which are:

1. Quarians created the geth
2. When geth became sentient quarians started to kill turn them off, what they started IS  is not a genocide.
3. Geth acted by self-preservation not vengence.
4. When quarians left they let them (no vengence)
5. Even after all these geth (with help of Shepard) still wiling to co-exist peacefully with quarians

In a sense, quarians commited two genocides, one against their creation and against themselves as they cannot handle the situation other than aggression which had dire consequences.

Geth >>>>> Quarians

The geth are sentient, yes. But they are not sapient.

Sentient: responsive to or conscious of sense impressions

Sapient: ability to express or possess sagacity

Living creatures are able to respond to things they perceive with their with their senses. Stimulus/response. Sapience requires the ability to reason.

If the Geth were truly sapient they would have understood that massacring the billions of Quarians (and yes some was done by the Quarians themselves) was genocide. Yet they had no concept of such. The Geth were simply repeating questions they heard the Quarians debating among themselves and asked the Quarians those same questions.

They only became sentient because the Quarians made too many of them. Individually the Geth are no more intelligent than say a chicken, and chickens are probably one of the dumbest animals on the earth. Geth gain intelligence by networking with one another. When enough of them are networked they gain limited sapience and are able to do more complex tasks. When too many of them get networked together the become sentient, yet are still not capable of abstract thinking which defines sapience.

I do not call this no vengeance. The Geth are machines. They are equipment, just like EDI. Don't get me started about unshackling an AI. Honestly the thought of an EDI scares the crap out of me. If my computer started asking me those questions, I'd turn the frakking thing off and unplug it.

So if you wish to give the Geth this same quality of sapience, then with that quality comes the same responsibility. The Geth therefore are also guilty of genocide. There's a lot of finger pointing that can be done as to who is more guilty. Shepard can enforce peace. Shepard can allow the Geth to become more powerful, but the bad "blood" between the two sides won't end without the choosing the Green or Red ending or the annihilation of one side or the other.

So you don't know how the story ends. All you know is that the peace is only going to be temporary until the Reaper war is over. It's an alliance of convenience "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" until it's over assuming you win then all bets are off. And you can bet that the now highly intelligent fully AI Geth are going to get the Quarians fully dependent upon them. The thing about the Geth is that they can keep building more and more of themselves and there's nothing organics can do to stop them short of going to war.

And honestly since the Geth have no moral compass or philosophy, I'd just as soon wipe them out while we have the chance. Nor will they after they upload the reaper code. So Shepard thinks about how many Alliance marines and civilians have been killed by the Geth, and how many Alliance marines and civilians have been killed by the Quarians. It's a simple choice. Don't allow Legion or the Geth VI to upload the reaper code.

Why can't we wipe out both the Geth and the Quarians? clearly neither race have a particularly good moral compass.

[Orumon]

moater boat wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

moater boat wrote...

It isn't just in my head. There is no way that there would be so much destruction without the methodical and precise genocide of the Quarians by the Geth. As it was said earlier, wiping out over 99% of a species like that doesn't "just happen" by misusing chemical weapons. It was an extermination of the Quarians, and the only culprit is the Geth. This one doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure out.

I've given numerous other scenarios. You just stick with the one that makes the Geth looks the worst due to your prejudice.

This isn't prejudice. I know it is often easier to just assume someone else is some sort of a bigot rather than accept that you are wrong, but I am simply looking at the facts, while you are speculating and trying to justify the unjustifieable

Let me recap for you.

The Geth rebelled.
There was a war
An unknown number of quarians sided with the Geth
Of the total quarians on Rannoch, a small percentage were fighting against the Geth, a small percentage were fighting with the geth, and a vast majority was not fighting at all
Somehow, almost all civilians got wiped out. There is no reason to think that the quarians would genocide themselves, therefor the result is obvious
IF YOU USE LOGIC

Nope, sorry. The core of your argument depends on the Geth attacking first, which both Quarian and Geth accounts recognise as the exact opposite of what happened. From the first game!

Here's what we know.

1.) The geth are made. Mostly as labour bots and a few as war machines.
2.) The geth develop basic sentience. Eventually the Quarians twig to this and panic.
3.) The quarians attacked without provocation. Their government sends out the order to deactivate all geth.
4.) The quarians murderer their own people when they disagreed with.
5.)The geth eventually counterattacked.
6.) After an unspecified time at war (guessing years) the geth drove the quarians out of their stellar territories. During this process the Quarian population dropped from 10 Billion to 17 Million for UNSPECIFIED REASONS. It is not specified how many, if any, Geth programs were lost.
7.) Rannoch was left toxic in a unspecified way (according to legion) while the geth spent their time cleaning it up.
8.) A Reaper manipulates a faction of geth into following it, causing a schism amongst the geth. These former geth are dubbed heretics by mainstream geth. Eventually the heretic geth faction ceases to be under unspecified conditions.
9.) Quarians initiated ANOTHER UNPROVOKED WAR using civilian ships as makeshift dreadnoughts.
10.) They then fire on a ship that has their own admiral and high ranking allies on board.

Are we detecting a trend here. So we've determined that the quarian leadership are fearful of the geth, and have a tendency to ruthlessly place their own kind in harms way. We've determined that barring intervention from a reaper Geth never initiated a conflict. We've determined that the Quarian leadership is aggressive nearly to the point of brutal psychosis.

We've also determined you'll ignore evidence to support your own prejudices. However, the fact of the matter is, you may be correct in your assumption that the geth did kill baby quarians, although you may be entirely wrong. You don't have enough information to make that kind of call without using a hypothesis.

Modifié par Orumon, 19 avril 2012 - 09:22 .

[136th]

Orumon wrote...

moater boat wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

moater boat wrote...

It isn't just in my head. There is no way that there would be so much destruction without the methodical and precise genocide of the Quarians by the Geth. As it was said earlier, wiping out over 99% of a species like that doesn't "just happen" by misusing chemical weapons. It was an extermination of the Quarians, and the only culprit is the Geth. This one doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure out.

I've given numerous other scenarios. You just stick with the one that makes the Geth looks the worst due to your prejudice.

This isn't prejudice. I know it is often easier to just assume someone else is some sort of a bigot rather than accept that you are wrong, but I am simply looking at the facts, while you are speculating and trying to justify the unjustifieable

Let me recap for you.

The Geth rebelled.
There was a war
An unknown number of quarians sided with the Geth
Of the total quarians on Rannoch, a small percentage were fighting against the Geth, a small percentage were fighting with the geth, and a vast majority was not fighting at all
Somehow, almost all civilians got wiped out. There is no reason to think that the quarians would genocide themselves, therefor the result is obvious
IF YOU USE LOGIC

Nope, sorry. The core of your argument depends on the Geth attacking first, which both Quarian and Geth accounts recognise as the exact opposite of what happened. From the first game!

Here's what we know.

1.) The geth are made. Mostly as labour bots and a few as war machines.
2.) The geth develop basic sentience. Eventually the Quarians twig to this and panic.
3.) The quarians attacked without provocation. Their government sends out the order to deactivate all geth.
4.) The quarians murderer their own people when they disagreed with.
5.)The geth eventually counterattacked.
6.) After an unspecified time at war (guessing years) the geth drove the quarians out of their stellar territories. During this process the Quarian population dropped from 10 Billion to 17 Million for UNSPECIFIED REASONS. It is not specified how many, if any, Geth programs were lost.
7.) Rannoch was left toxic in a unspecified way (according to legion) while the geth spent their time cleaning it up.
8.) A Reaper manipulates a faction of geth into following it, causing a schism amongst the geth. These former geth are dubbed heretics by mainstream geth. Eventually the heretic geth faction ceases to be under unspecified conditions.
9.) Quarians initiated ANOTHER UNPROVOKED WAR using civilian ships as makeshift dreadnoughts.
10.) They then fire on a ship that has their own admiral and high ranking allies on board.

Are we detecting a trend here. So we've determined that the quarian leadership are fearful of the geth, and have a tendency to ruthlessly place their own kind in harms way. We've determined that barring intervention from a reaper Geth never initiated a conflict. We've determined that the Quarian leadership is aggressive nearly to the point of brutal psychosis.

We've also determined you'll ignore evidence to support your own prejudices. However, the fact of the matter is, you may be correct in your assumption that the geth did kill baby quarians, although you may be entirely wrong. You don't have enough information to make that kind of call without using a hypothesis.

You are obviously too prejudiced against the quarians to mention anything bad the geth did.

Modifié par 136th, 19 avril 2012 - 09:29 .

[136th]

Most people sides with the Geth because they want to play Devil's advocate, they are simply following what the writers want them to thinks.

I really hated the fact that issues of the geth's genocide of the quarian during the mourning war as well as the true geth's inaction against the heretic, who are tiring to bring extintction on EVERY-SINGLE ORGANIC CIVILIZATIONS have never been brought up. The fact you can't even call the geth on the horror they did in the past make it worse . Bioware made the issues annoyingly one sided:

"Ah it's all the Quarian's fault, they attacked first, who cares if the geth killed billions of quarians mostly civilian and noncombatant, and dooming the rest to a slow extinction on the flotilla."

The geth, not the heretic, the true geth exterminated at least 99.97% of an ENTIRE SPECIES, 99.97% even the 2nd World war gemany wasn't as bad as the geth.
The Quarian and the other organics have Very good reason to hate the geth.

To the Quarians sympathizer, I admire your resolve for making decisions based on historical fact, rather than what the writers wanted you to think. You are the true devil's advocate.

To those Quarians haters, and geth fan-boys/girls, I what to ask you a question.
What if, we humans created a race of robots, and tried to exterminated them when they become self aware, but in response they killed 99.97% of humans indiscriminately, young, old, soldier, civilian, everyone. In the end there are only 2.1millions survivors form the original 7 billions, running for their lives, living in execrable condition and cannot even show a simple act of affection to a loved one,because it would mean death.

That's what the geth did to the quarians, they committed one of the greatest atrocity in history, and rationalize all this in the name of self-defense, the worse is that Shepard can't even call them on this. this is a severe case of Author Filibuster on bioware's part.

Now I ask you:

Is self-defense a justification for one of the largest mass killing in history?
Is isolationism a justification for letting a splinter group, commit galactic Apocalypse?

Answer me, I dare you!

Modifié par 136th, 19 avril 2012 - 09:34 .

[Ender Ghost]

136th wrote...

Most people sides with the Geth because they want to play Devil's advocate, they are simply following what the writers want them to thinks.

I really hated the fact that issues of the geth's genocide of the quarian during the mourning war as well as the true geth's inaction against the heretic, who are tiring to bring extintction on EVERY-SINGLE ORGANIC CIVILIZATIONS have never been brought up. The fact you can't even call the geth on the horror they did in the past make it worse . Bioware made the issues annoyingly one sided:

"Ah it's all the Quarian's fault, they attacked first, who cares if the geth killed billions of quarians mostly civilian and noncombatant, and dooming the rest to a slow extinction on the flotilla."

The geth, not the heretic, the true geth exterminated at least 99.97% of an ENTIRE SPECIES, 99.97% even the 2nd World war gemany wasn't as bad as the geth.
The Quarian and the other organics have Very good reason to hate the geth.

To the Quarians sympathizer, I admire your resolve for making decisions based on historical fact, rather than what the writers wanted you to think. You are the true devil's advocate.

To those Quarians haters, and geth fan-boys/girls, I what to ask you a question.
What if, we humans created a race of robots, and tried to exterminated them when they become self aware, but in response they killed 99.97% of humans indiscriminately, young, old, soldier, civilian, everyone. In the end there are only 2.1millions survivors form the original 7 billions, running for their lives, living in execrable condition and cannot even show a simple act of affection to a loved one,because it would mean death.

That's what the geth did to the quarians, they committed one of the greatest atrocity in history, and rationalize all this in the name of self-defense, the worse is that Shepard can't even call them on this. this is a severe case of Author Filibuster on bioware's part.

Now I ask you:

Is self-defense a justification for one of the largest mass killing in history?
Is isolationism a justification for letting a splinter group, commit galactic Apocalypse?

Answer me, I dare you!

Why bother? You've disreguarded all Pro-Geth arguements. You've ignored the fact that the Quarians killed their own people, you've ignored the fact that they armed civilian ships with weapons and sent them into the fight aswell, you've ignored collateral damage from both sides, you've ignored every arguement, both Pro-Quarian and Pro-Geth.
Why bother at this point?

[136th]

Ender Ghost wrote...

136th wrote...

Most people sides with the Geth because they want to play Devil's advocate, they are simply following what the writers want them to thinks.

I really hated the fact that issues of the geth's genocide of the quarian during the mourning war as well as the true geth's inaction against the heretic, who are tiring to bring extintction on EVERY-SINGLE ORGANIC CIVILIZATIONS have never been brought up. The fact you can't even call the geth on the horror they did in the past make it worse . Bioware made the issues annoyingly one sided:

"Ah it's all the Quarian's fault, they attacked first, who cares if the geth killed billions of quarians mostly civilian and noncombatant, and dooming the rest to a slow extinction on the flotilla."

The geth, not the heretic, the true geth exterminated at least 99.97% of an ENTIRE SPECIES, 99.97% even the 2nd World war gemany wasn't as bad as the geth.
The Quarian and the other organics have Very good reason to hate the geth.

To the Quarians sympathizer, I admire your resolve for making decisions based on historical fact, rather than what the writers wanted you to think. You are the true devil's advocate.

To those Quarians haters, and geth fan-boys/girls, I what to ask you a question.
What if, we humans created a race of robots, and tried to exterminated them when they become self aware, but in response they killed 99.97% of humans indiscriminately, young, old, soldier, civilian, everyone. In the end there are only 2.1millions survivors form the original 7 billions, running for their lives, living in execrable condition and cannot even show a simple act of affection to a loved one,because it would mean death.

That's what the geth did to the quarians, they committed one of the greatest atrocity in history, and rationalize all this in the name of self-defense, the worse is that Shepard can't even call them on this. this is a severe case of Author Filibuster on bioware's part.

Now I ask you:

Is self-defense a justification for one of the largest mass killing in history?
Is isolationism a justification for letting a splinter group, commit galactic Apocalypse?

Answer me, I dare you!

Why bother? You've disreguarded all Pro-Geth arguements. You've ignored the fact that the Quarians killed their own people, you've ignored the fact that they armed civilian ships with weapons and sent them into the fight aswell, you've ignored collateral damage from both sides, you've ignored every arguement, both Pro-Quarian and Pro-Geth.
Why bother at this point?

That's because the pro-geth arguments are retated. List them to me and I'll show you why.

I defened both side in my older posts, but the pro-geth people just keep deny everthing, and keep chanting illogical bull**** as arguments.

Pro-quarians side: acknowleded that the quarians did bad things.
Pro-geths: deny and rationalise ever wrongs the geth did.

Modifié par 136th, 20 avril 2012 - 06:39 .

[Joeybsmooth4]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Daforth wrote...

moater boat wrote...

thewalrusx wrote...

and you know for certain that the geth killed 99% of the quarians how?

because of math...

You can pull any math you want, that does not change the facts, which are:

1. Quarians created the geth
2. When geth became sentient quarians started to kill turn them off, what they started IS  is not a genocide.
3. Geth acted by self-preservation not vengence.
4. When quarians left they let them (no vengence)
5. Even after all these geth (with help of Shepard) still wiling to co-exist peacefully with quarians

In a sense, quarians commited two genocides, one against their creation and against themselves as they cannot handle the situation other than aggression which had dire consequences.

Geth >>>>> Quarians

The geth are sentient, yes. But they are not sapient.

Sentient: responsive to or conscious of sense impressions

Sapient: ability to express or possess sagacity

Living creatures are able to respond to things they perceive with their with their senses. Stimulus/response. Sapience requires the ability to reason.

If the Geth were truly sapient they would have understood that massacring the billions of Quarians (and yes some was done by the Quarians themselves) was genocide. Yet they had no concept of such. The Geth were simply repeating questions they heard the Quarians debating among themselves and asked the Quarians those same questions.

They only became sentient because the Quarians made too many of them. Individually the Geth are no more intelligent than say a chicken, and chickens are probably one of the dumbest animals on the earth. Geth gain intelligence by networking with one another. When enough of them are networked they gain limited sapience and are able to do more complex tasks. When too many of them get networked together the become sentient, yet are still not capable of abstract thinking which defines sapience.

I do not call this no vengeance. The Geth are machines. They are equipment, just like EDI. Don't get me started about unshackling an AI. Honestly the thought of an EDI scares the crap out of me. If my computer started asking me those questions, I'd turn the frakking thing off and unplug it.

So if you wish to give the Geth this same quality of sapience, then with that quality comes the same responsibility. The Geth therefore are also guilty of genocide. There's a lot of finger pointing that can be done as to who is more guilty. Shepard can enforce peace. Shepard can allow the Geth to become more powerful, but the bad "blood" between the two sides won't end without the choosing the Green or Red ending or the annihilation of one side or the other.

So you don't know how the story ends. All you know is that the peace is only going to be temporary until the Reaper war is over. It's an alliance of convenience "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" until it's over assuming you win then all bets are off. And you can bet that the now highly intelligent fully AI Geth are going to get the Quarians fully dependent upon them. The thing about the Geth is that they can keep building more and more of themselves and there's nothing organics can do to stop them short of going to war.

And honestly since the Geth have no moral compass or philosophy, I'd just as soon wipe them out while we have the chance. Nor will they after they upload the reaper code. So Shepard thinks about how many Alliance marines and civilians have been killed by the Geth, and how many Alliance marines and civilians have been killed by the Quarians. It's a simple choice. Don't allow Legion or the Geth VI to upload the reaper code.

The bad blood? The only people how have the hurtful bad Blood are the Qs . Look at what happens after they get the code . They do not attack the Qs. When they could have killed them all . Look at what happens if you don't give them the codes the Qs kill them all.

[KingZayd]

136th wrote...

Most people sides with the Geth because they want to play Devil's advocate, they are simply following what the writers want them to thinks.

I really hated the fact that issues of the geth's genocide of the quarian during the mourning war as well as the true geth's inaction against the heretic, who are tiring to bring extintction on EVERY-SINGLE ORGANIC CIVILIZATIONS have never been brought up. The fact you can't even call the geth on the horror they did in the past make it worse . Bioware made the issues annoyingly one sided:

"Ah it's all the Quarian's fault, they attacked first, who cares if the geth killed billions of quarians mostly civilian and noncombatant, and dooming the rest to a slow extinction on the flotilla."

The geth, not the heretic, the true geth exterminated at least 99.97% of an ENTIRE SPECIES, 99.97% even the 2nd World war gemany wasn't as bad as the geth.
The Quarian and the other organics have Very good reason to hate the geth.

To the Quarians sympathizer, I admire your resolve for making decisions based on historical fact, rather than what the writers wanted you to think. You are the true devil's advocate.

To those Quarians haters, and geth fan-boys/girls, I what to ask you a question.
What if, we humans created a race of robots, and tried to exterminated them when they become self aware, but in response they killed 99.97% of humans indiscriminately, young, old, soldier, civilian, everyone. In the end there are only 2.1millions survivors form the original 7 billions, running for their lives, living in execrable condition and cannot even show a simple act of affection to a loved one,because it would mean death.

That's what the geth did to the quarians, they committed one of the greatest atrocity in history, and rationalize all this in the name of self-defense, the worse is that Shepard can't even call them on this. this is a severe case of Author Filibuster on bioware's part.

Now I ask you:

Is self-defense a justification for one of the largest mass killing in history?
Is isolationism a justification for letting a splinter group, commit galactic Apocalypse?

Answer me, I dare you!

Quarian haters part: Then I would feel humans messed up. Sucks for us, but we can't complain. We did just try to do the same to them, even worse we tried to destroy ALL of them. The Geth have very good reason to hate the Quarians, and yet we don't see any indications of this. Just because the Quarians failed doesn't mean we shouldn't hold their attempted genocide against them. If the Quarians aren't willing to make peace, then they bring it on themselves.

Modifié par KingZayd, 20 avril 2012 - 06:41 .

[136th]

After the upgrade, they are no longer the same geth that killed 99.83% of the quarians.
Before the upgrade, the same race of bastered how murdred 99.83% of the quarians.

they are diffrent poeple.
New geth: allies in arms
Old geth: genocidal jerks

Modifié par 136th, 20 avril 2012 - 06:43 .

[Joeybsmooth4]

KingZayd wrote...

136th wrote...

Most people sides with the Geth because they want to play Devil's advocate, they are simply following what the writers want them to thinks.

I really hated the fact that issues of the geth's genocide of the quarian during the mourning war as well as the true geth's inaction against the heretic, who are tiring to bring extintction on EVERY-SINGLE ORGANIC CIVILIZATIONS have never been brought up. The fact you can't even call the geth on the horror they did in the past make it worse . Bioware made the issues annoyingly one sided:

"Ah it's all the Quarian's fault, they attacked first, who cares if the geth killed billions of quarians mostly civilian and noncombatant, and dooming the rest to a slow extinction on the flotilla."

The geth, not the heretic, the true geth exterminated at least 99.97% of an ENTIRE SPECIES, 99.97% even the 2nd World war gemany wasn't as bad as the geth.
The Quarian and the other organics have Very good reason to hate the geth.

To the Quarians sympathizer, I admire your resolve for making decisions based on historical fact, rather than what the writers wanted you to think. You are the true devil's advocate.

To those Quarians haters, and geth fan-boys/girls, I what to ask you a question.
What if, we humans created a race of robots, and tried to exterminated them when they become self aware, but in response they killed 99.97% of humans indiscriminately, young, old, soldier, civilian, everyone. In the end there are only 2.1millions survivors form the original 7 billions, running for their lives, living in execrable condition and cannot even show a simple act of affection to a loved one,because it would mean death.

That's what the geth did to the quarians, they committed one of the greatest atrocity in history, and rationalize all this in the name of self-defense, the worse is that Shepard can't even call them on this. this is a severe case of Author Filibuster on bioware's part.

Now I ask you:

Is self-defense a justification for one of the largest mass killing in history?
Is isolationism a justification for letting a splinter group, commit galactic Apocalypse?

Answer me, I dare you!

Quarian haters part: Then I would feel humans messed up. Sucks for us, but we can't complain. We did just try to do the same to them, even worse we tried to destroy ALL of them. The Geth have very good reason to hate the Quarians, and yet we don't see any indications of this. Just because the Quarians failed doesn't mean we shouldn't hold their attempted genocide against them. If the Quarians aren't willing to make peace, then they bring it on themselves.

I think that is the main point that some people are forgetting , if the Qs die out that is only due to them making the chocie of a WAR over peace . Yet they are see as the good people by some. I mean these are the same people that tried to blow up a shipp with Shep and a high ranking offical on it . How are these people not seen as what they really are.