1392 réponses à ce sujet

[Meltemph]

Is that supposed to be for or against them? Because "they murdered billions of people because they didn't know any better" is a shoddy excuse.

I think you are misunderstanding my point. Why would they kill those not a threat to them? At this point the Geth have no reason to do so, they were only defending themselves. The fact that we clearly see a Quarian and a Geth working together should be an indication that they were not killing indiscriminately. At this point in time, I would only assume self defense and survivale were on their mind.

[moater boat]

Meltemph wrote...



I disagree a lot, it only makes sense that the geth learned all their tactics and tech based on quarian idea's.  Again, the Geth are essentially children at this point and not near as intellgient as they are now.  Again, the Quarians sucked at being parents in terms of the Geth, I think that much is pretty clear.  

Are you suggesting that the Geth somehow learned to commit genocide from the Quarians?

[Elyiia]

moater boat wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

moater boat wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

The Geth were never made to be kill-bots, they don't understand the concept of prisoners.
Also if I was a betting man I would put money on the majority of civilian casualties being because of Quarians or lost land rather than being executed.

Finally, the war is the Quarians fault. Fact.
It was started by the Quarians. Fact.
It ended when the Quarians stopped attacking/left. Fact.

Every single casualty in the war was the fault of the Quarians, not the Geth.

It is not a fact that it is the Quarians fault. The geth were machines that the Quarians were trying to turn off. The machines were supposed to do what they were told, but they didn't. They broke free from their control and rebelled. The Geht started the war and are to blame for not doing what they were told. The fact that the Geth didn't pursue is irrelevant. They still attacked every ship that came near them for the next 300 years.

Seriously? It's a fact the war is the fault of the Quarians. If your government told you to kill yourself for no reason would you do it? That's exactly what the Quarians did. At that point Geth were no longer tools but actually AIs. The Geth only rebelled as a defensive responsive.

The implied reason for the Geth shooting at every ship that came near is the fact that every encounter they've had with organics until Shepard has tried to kill them.

It's the Quarians fault as is the blame for every single death.

Failed analogy. I am a person. Geth were not. They weren't considered truly alive until they all get the reaper code in ME3. This is clearly stated in a cutscene. They were still just machines, and therefor should have done what they were told.

The Geth were sentient at the start of the Morning War. Fully applicable analogy.

Toxins left behind by war doens't imply deliberate chemical
warfare. Plus, this very clip highlights the reason why the entire
premise for killing 99.83% of all quarians pretty much ludicrous. The
Geth had no reason to stay on Rannoch. At any time they could have fled
Rannoch, and made their homes on space stations. It would have been
easier for them, anyway. But no, they decided to eliminate 99.83% of all
quarians. It doens't make sense.

Why should the Geth be forced to leave their homeworld after the Quarians initiated the war?

Modifié par Elyiia, 16 avril 2012 - 08:51 .

[Meltemph]

T-0pel wrote...

Meltemph wrote...

Don't get me wrong, I was delighted to establish peace between the quarians and the geth. However, the excuse that the geth were "just defending themselves" is very shaky. That's like saying Hitler decimated 7 million Jews cause they were "just defending themselves".

What? Hitler was a racist xenophobic agressor who embraced war. Jews did not attack him in any way he just hated them and decided that only Germans are worthy of being alive.

Geth on the other hand were attacked in their infant state and faced a total annihilation. Defending against this is justified by any means necessary. On their infant state I dont think they could understand a difference between kids and adults. We dont know how that war went, but obviously Quarians refused to surrender under any cirumstances.

And Geth had a chance to commit complety genocide but chose not to.

0_o  I dont remember saying that.

[The Angry One]

I1 Trust wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

Source. I've read the online codex and found no evidence of WMDs being used by either side.

How do you think Rannoch's atmosphere became toxic?

Here's one possibility

Eingana is a hot, beautiful, and deadly world, covered with the debris of ancient starships. Approximately 127,000 years ago, a series of battles were fought over it by two organic species, the thoi'han and the inusannon. Although no records of the conflict remain, most historians agree that both races wanted to colonize Eingana, and neither were willing to share. The two lost hundreds of ships in a series of battles over Eingana and its moon, Barraiya; many of these were eventually pulled in by the planet's gravity well. The mass effect drive cores of these ships broke apart, dumping refined element zero over large stretches of the landscape. This poisoned the environment and a wave of extinctions followed.

Would the Quarians be stupid enough to use starships for a ground war?
What am I saying, of course they would be. Mind you, this would just support the idea that one way or another, many died due to the pollution and not direct extermination.

[Meltemph]

moater boat wrote...

Meltemph wrote...



I disagree a lot, it only makes sense that the geth learned all their tactics and tech based on quarian idea's.  Again, the Geth are essentially children at this point and not near as intellgient as they are now.  Again, the Quarians sucked at being parents in terms of the Geth, I think that much is pretty clear.  

Are you suggesting that the Geth somehow learned to commit genocide from the Quarians?

Where else are you suggesting they learned it from?

[Hogge87]

moater boat wrote...

How do I know they killed quarian babies? After the Morning war there were only 17 million quarians left alive. I don't know how many there were to begin with, but it stands to reason that there were at least several billion. That means that only a fraction of a percent of all the Quarians survived. The only possible explanation is that the Geth killed millions of Quarian infants.

Now can we all get over our irrational love affair with these psychopathic, xenophobic, backstabbing robots.


Edit: I didn't expect all these responses, I am having trouble responding to all of them. I didn't realize how many people were brainwashed...

During WWII the allied forces used incindiary bombs, burning down essentially whole german cities. Does that make Winston Churchill and president Roosevelt evil? In war, you will inevitably kill civilians, including children.

I don't recall the ME lore explaining what happened to the Quarians who weren't evacuated. Considering there were rebels fighting for the survival of the Geth, and the Geth didn't intend on performing genocide, there in all probability already are Quarians living on Rannoch, without suits.

[DJBare]

Lets post it again, who was it that initiated the war again, on both occasions?
www.youtube.com/watch

[The Angry One]

tractrpl wrote...

Toxins left behind by war doens't imply deliberate chemical warfare. Plus, this very clip highlights the reason why the entire premise for killing 99.83% of all quarians pretty much ludicrous. The Geth had no reason to stay on Rannoch. At any time they could have fled Rannoch, and made their homes on space stations. It would have been easier for them, anyway. But no, they decided to eliminate 99.83% of all quarians. It doens't make sense.

As I said, chemical warfare is one of my assumptions.
Regardless of the cause, Rannoch's atmosphere was poisoned. No matter if it was by chemical warfare, exploding Eezo cores or whatever.

[moater boat]

I1 Trust wrote...

We can't really discuss this topic because we don't know any of the details behind the Geth War.

We know the numbers, and that is enough to know that SOMEONE killed millions of quarian babies. I don't think it was the quarians...

[tractrpl]

moater boat wrote...

tractrpl wrote...


Yes, this is most likely correct. There's no way you can account for the slaughter of 99.83% of all quarians. No way. There's no evidence of nuclear war on the planet, so the only way this could have happened is house to house, cave by cave search, hunt, and eliminate. Like what you see in the Terminator movies.

EXACTLY

This can't be chalked up to chemical weapons or a civil war. The casualty rate is just too astronomical. Even the bloodiest wars usually result in a majority of the loosing military surviving. To see a casualty rate that high amongst an entire civilian population.. That's not war, it's extermination.

Let's just keep repeating this. They're not getting it. This is a plot hole, guys, nothing more. BW never thought about the mechanics necessary to wipe out 10 billion people across multiple worlds, they just didn't. They're D&D players, not scientists.

[The Angry One]

It's not a plot hole. One way or another Rannoch was left near uninhabitable.
Chemical warfare, nuclear weapons, starship destruction are all possible causes.
Potentially billions could've died due to this. You know who wouldn't be affected by this? The Geth. So they stay, and the Quarians had to leave.

Modifié par The Angry One, 16 avril 2012 - 08:53 .

[DJBare]

moater boat wrote...
We know the numbers, and that is enough to know that SOMEONE killed millions of quarian babies. I don't think it was the quarians...

Hmmm, I'm beginning to get the impression of an under bridge dweller here.

[tractrpl]

moater boat wrote...

I1 Trust wrote...

We can't really discuss this topic because we don't know any of the details behind the Geth War.

We know the numbers, and that is enough to know that SOMEONE killed millions of quarian babies. I don't think it was the quarians...

Edit: BILLIONS of quarian babies, or if your a brit, Thousands of Millions

[Elyiia]

We don't even know how many Quarians were left behind when the Quarians fled, who then would have died from the toxic atmosphere.

[T-0pel]

moater boat wrote...

tractrpl wrote...


Yes, this is most likely correct. There's no way you can account for the slaughter of 99.83% of all quarians. No way. There's no evidence of nuclear war on the planet, so the only way this could have happened is house to house, cave by cave search, hunt, and eliminate. Like what you see in the Terminator movies.

EXACTLY

This can't be chalked up to chemical weapons or a civil war. The casualty rate is just too astronomical. Even the bloodiest wars usually result in a majority of the loosing military surviving. To see a casualty rate that high amongst an entire civilian population.. That's not war, it's extermination.

BS this was not a normal war for both sides. They viewed it as a fight for their very existence! This kind of war never happened  in our world so we can only speculate on how it would go.

I believe that the Quarians facing extinction (which was happening because they refused to stop fighting) they have brought every women and children to fight. When you bring everything you have into a fight casualities can climb to almost 100%.

[moater boat]

Aetika wrote...

moater boat wrote...

Aetika wrote...


No, they are only foolish enough to start war over their homeworld, when there is Reaper invasion 

As far as they knew, the Geth were still working with the Reapers. From their point of view, they were doing more than any other race to combat the reaper threat.

Please. Han Gerrel himself says that they "initiated the war to retake their homeworld". There is no mention about Reapers or the war being their part of fight against Reapers. Actually the whole conversations shows very clearly, that it is not about Reapers at all.: 

That doesn't change the fact that as far as anyone knew, the Geth were working with the Reapers. Just because they had other good reasons doesn't change the fact that they were actually doing something to prepare for the reaper war.

[Tony208]

moater boat wrote...

I1 Trust wrote...

We can't really discuss this topic because we don't know any of the details behind the Geth War.

We know the numbers, and that is enough to know that SOMEONE killed millions of quarian babies. I don't think it was the quarians...

We don't know anything about the war, we know there are 17 million present day Quarians. Population control could've taken place in the 300 years since the war. This thread is so stupid.

Modifié par Tony208, 16 avril 2012 - 08:56 .

[Gogzilla]

moater boat wrote...

It isn't just in my head. There is no way that there would be so much destruction without the methodical and precise genocide of the Quarians by the Geth. As it was said earlier, wiping out over 99% of a species like that doesn't "just happen" by misusing chemical weapons. It was an extermination of the Quarians, and the only culprit is the Geth. This one doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure out.

Is it more justified to kill the geth , then it is to to kill quarians.

How many programs did the Geth loose in the war ?
How many times did the quarians attempt genocide on the Geth ?

If it was 99% and not a 100% , then that was no accident .

They fought the mouning war for their survival.

The fact that they let the quarians go at all is proof that genocide was not their aim.

What ever consequences of war forced the Geth to exterminate the quarian population in that fashion. They did so to ensure their survival not their creators destruction.

There was the Quarian resolution to destroy and the Geth resoultion to survive.

Why they did, what they did, was probably done after they were left with no other choice.

I think they realiesed the Quarians would never stop fighting, never stop trying to detroy them. Given all the data
they had they did what they needed to do.

Nothing more , nothing less.

Modifié par Gogzilla, 16 avril 2012 - 08:58 .

[Meltemph]

tractrpl wrote...

moater boat wrote...

I1 Trust wrote...

We can't really discuss this topic because we don't know any of the details behind the Geth War.

We know the numbers, and that is enough to know that SOMEONE killed millions of quarian babies. I don't think it was the quarians...

Edit: BILLIONS of quarian babies, or if your a brit, Thousands of Millions

A form of nuclear winter makes more sense then Geth going house to house shooting babies... I mean come on.  Both sides doing very stupid things in war = bad things happening.  Only difference is, you kill geth hardware, you dont kill teh geth.

Modifié par Meltemph, 16 avril 2012 - 08:56 .

[Vapaa]

The Angry One wrote...

It's not a plot hole. One way or another Rannoch was left near uninhabitable.

"rubble and toxins" dixit Legion

Nowhere it said that Rannoch was toxic and uninhabitable, just that the war sure left a lot of ruins and dead bodies

[tractrpl]

The Angry One wrote...

It's not a plot hole. One way or another Rannoch was left near uninhabitable.
Chemical warfare, nuclear weapons, starship destruction are all possible causes.
Potentially billions could've died due to this. You know who wouldn't be affected by this? The Geth. So they stay, and the Quarians had to leave.

We've all seen planets devastated by war in this series. They are left uninhabitable millions of years later. Not so with Rannoch. It was habitable again at least by 300 years later, and presumably after only a few decades. We so no evidence of massive ecological devistation. And Rannoch is an "arid world" presumably more susceptible to global catastrophe (look at the Drell). But this is not what we see. We see a world barely touched, its just missing it's original inhabiting civilization.

[The Angry One]

moater boat wrote...

That doesn't change the fact that as far as anyone knew, the Geth were working with the Reapers. Just because they had other good reasons doesn't change the fact that they were actually doing something to prepare for the reaper war.

Yeah you know nothing changes if you brought Legion aboard the flotilla in ME2 to say otherwise, right?
Not to mention there were many Quarians, like Koris, who didn't regard the Geth as merciless killbots. The hardliners were just itching to conquer the Geth for that reason alone.