1392 réponses à ce sujet

[Vapaa]

The Angry One wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

With what? Oh yeah. "Space magic" Nuclear fallout cannot be easily cleaned up like that.

Um. It's 300 years later. Radiation would've long since dropped to safe levels.

Yeah like Tuchanka......

[Meltemph]

moater boat wrote...

T-0pel wrote...

How manby babies do you think the Krogan killed?

I don't know, but you don't see a majority of people on these forums condemning all Salarians, Turains, and Asari to death for what they did to the Krogan. People see that situation in a fairly unbiased way. The same can't be said for the Geth/Quarian conflict.

Probably has something to do with the fact that the Quarians created their own problem. That kinda colors the water a bit, dont ya think?

[Elyiia]

DJBare wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Presumably, because that's what they're programmed for when they're not being shot at.

No, since their primary objective is the construction of the dyson sphere.

Also a reminder

Geth Prime: you are welcome to join us admiral, do you have somewhere specific in mind.
Admiral Raan: The southern continent is good for farmland
And of course not forgetting the geth who uploaded themselves to quarian volunteers to speed up the repair of their immune system.
These are not specuations, these are in the game.

Then why did they repair the planet? This is in the game.

[The Angry One]

moater boat wrote...

T-0pel wrote...

How manby babies do you think the Krogan killed?

I don't know, but you don't see a majority of people on these forums condemning all Salarians, Turains, and Asari to death for what they did to the Krogan. People see that situation in a fairly unbiased way. The same can't be said for the Geth/Quarian conflict.

Maybe because the Geth have actively demonstrated a commitment to peace, a desire to co-exist with the Quarians, no desire for revenge despite all the crimes committed against them and, oh yeah, the Quarian leadership are a bunch of idiots.

[The Angry One]

Vapaä wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

With what? Oh yeah. "Space magic" Nuclear fallout cannot be easily cleaned up like that.

Um. It's 300 years later. Radiation would've long since dropped to safe levels.

Yeah like Tuchanka......

You know the difference between Rannoch and Tuchanka? They stopped blowing up Rannoch for 5 minutes.
Even Tuchanka shows signs of ecological recovery in the isolated regions, but the Krogan are overall too dumb to take care of their planet properly even when the Salarians gave them all the technology to do so.

Also, how is Tuchanka uninhabitable again? Last I checked humans could run around there without breathers or radiation suits just fine.

Modifié par The Angry One, 16 avril 2012 - 09:11 .

[DJBare]

Elyiia wrote...

Then why did they repair the planet? This is in the game.

They were repairing and maintaining it for the quarians, hence "caretakers"; now whether they do it out of guilt is debatable, I'm more inclined toward their base function which is to serve the quarians.

[Meltemph]

Elyiia wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Presumably, because that's what they're programmed for when they're not being shot at.

No, since their primary objective is the construction of the dyson sphere.

Also a reminder

Geth Prime: you are welcome to join us admiral, do you have somewhere specific in mind.
Admiral Raan: The southern continent is good for farmland
And of course not forgetting the geth who uploaded themselves to quarian volunteers to speed up the repair of their immune system.
These are not specuations, these are in the game.

Then why did they repair the planet? This is in the game.

Once they become sentient, I think it is safe to say they becaome more then their program.  I dont think anyone is arguing that there was a lot of mess, but all I see are people condeming the quarians or the geth... I dont see anybody really, trying to look at it on both ends. At the end of it all though, it literally is the Quarians fault. They created teh geth, they screwed up.  

[tractrpl]

The Angry One wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

With what? Oh yeah. "Space magic" Nuclear fallout cannot be easily cleaned up like that.

Um. It's 300 years later. Radiation would've long since dropped to safe levels.

No, it wouldn't. Chernobyl is still unsafe, and that's only one incident. Imagine billions of Chernobyls. It would take thousands of years to eliminate the nuclear materials floating in the atmosphere. Besides, even a nuclear war is unlikely to kill 99.83% of all quarians. Even if all the nuclear weapons that ever existed in all of our arsenals were to be detonated, it would be millions of times less devastating than the Chixilub event that wiped out the dinosaurs. Many scientists doubt that even such an even could even wipe out humans, I mean, we're more numerous than rats at this point. 

So even a nuclear war couldn't kill 99.83% of all quarians, perhaps killing, at best 50% or even 70%. This still means that the geth would have to go house to house, crevice by crevice, cave by cave, hunting down every quarian that moved.

[Ashira Shepard]

The Angry One wrote...

Vapaä wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

With what? Oh yeah. "Space magic" Nuclear fallout cannot be easily cleaned up like that.

Um. It's 300 years later. Radiation would've long since dropped to safe levels.

Yeah like Tuchanka......

You know the difference between Rannoch and Tuchanka? They stopped blowing up Rannoch for 5 minutes.
Even Tuchanka shows signs of ecological recovery in the isolated regions, but the Krogan are overall too dumb to take care of their planet properly even when the Salarians gave them all the technology to do so.

Also, how is Tuchanka uninhabitable again? Last I checked humans could run around there without breathers or radiation suits just fine.

The Geth are incredibly smart when networked, so leave a whole load of platforms who don't need to sleep, eat or drink or anything and leave them working for 300 years straight without pause.

Yeah...

[moater boat]

The Angry One wrote...

moater boat wrote...

It isn't just in my head. There is no way that there would be so much destruction without the methodical and precise genocide of the Quarians by the Geth. As it was said earlier, wiping out over 99% of a species like that doesn't "just happen" by misusing chemical weapons. It was an extermination of the Quarians, and the only culprit is the Geth. This one doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure out.

I've given numerous other scenarios. You just stick with the one that makes the Geth looks the worst due to your prejudice.

This isn't prejudice. I know it is often easier to just assume someone else is some sort of a bigot rather than accept that you are wrong, but I am simply looking at the facts, while you are speculating and trying to justify the unjustifieable

Let me recap for you.

The Geth rebelled.
There was a war
An unknown number of quarians sided with the Geth
Of the total quarians on Rannoch, a small percentage were fighting against the Geth, a small percentage were fighting with the geth, and a vast majority was not fighting at all
Somehow, almost all civilians got wiped out. There is no reason to think that the quarians would genocide themselves, therefor the result is obvious
IF YOU USE LOGIC

[The Angry One]

DJBare wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Then why did they repair the planet? This is in the game.

They were repairing and maintaining it for the quarians, hence "caretakers"; now whether they do it out of guilt is debatable, I'm more inclined toward their base function which is to serve the quarians.

I think the Geth always maintained a desire to reunite with the Quarians.
In ME2 the only reason Legion gives to Koris for no co-existence is due to the Quarians always attacking.
In ME3 in the consensus, Legion refers to the idea of uniting with the Quarians as the Geth equivalent to "hope".

[Elyiia]

DJBare wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Then why did they repair the planet? This is in the game.

They were repairing and maintaining it for the quarians, hence "caretakers"; now whether they do it out of guilt is debatable, I'm more inclined toward their base function which is to serve the quarians.

So they're acting under their original programming to serve the Quarians despite the fact they're were forced off. Basically.

While doing their Dyson sphere.:innocent:

[Megachaz]

It was a war. Quarians have weak immune systems. Babies have weak immune systems, so a Quarian baby's immune system is pretty much non-existent. You think that maybe being on a planet who's atmosphere is becoming toxic due to the war might kill a lot of babies just due to exposure.

[The Angry One]

tractrpl wrote...

No, it wouldn't. Chernobyl is still unsafe, and that's only one incident. Imagine billions of Chernobyls. It would take thousands of years to eliminate the nuclear materials floating in the atmosphere. Besides, even a nuclear war is unlikely to kill 99.83% of all quarians. Even if all the nuclear weapons that ever existed in all of our arsenals were to be detonated, it would be millions of times less devastating than the Chixilub event that wiped out the dinosaurs. Many scientists doubt that even such an even could even wipe out humans, I mean, we're more numerous than rats at this point. 

So even a nuclear war couldn't kill 99.83% of all quarians, perhaps killing, at best 50% or even 70%. This still means that the geth would have to go house to house, crevice by crevice, cave by cave, hunting down every quarian that moved.

Yeah I forgot it's been 300 years since Chernobyl. Also, billions? Even a large scale nuclear war on  Earth would not be the equivalent of "billions" of Chernobyls.

The Geth are extremely efficient, and have supertech. The Salarians were able to build an atmospheric processor on Tuchanka as an afterthought. The Geth would probably do better than that.

Quarians being wiped out? Newsflash: The Quarians weren't wiped out. Their population was reduced from billions to millions. Which is what a nuclear war would basically do to us.

[tractrpl]

Megachaz wrote...

It was a war. Quarians have weak immune systems. Babies have weak immune systems, so a Quarian baby's immune system is pretty much non-existent. You think that maybe being on a planet who's atmosphere is becoming toxic due to the war might kill a lot of babies just due to exposure.

This doesn't explain 99.83% of them dying.

[Meltemph]

tractrpl wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

With what? Oh yeah. "Space magic" Nuclear fallout cannot be easily cleaned up like that.

Um. It's 300 years later. Radiation would've long since dropped to safe levels.

No, it wouldn't. Chernobyl is still unsafe, and that's only one incident. Imagine billions of Chernobyls. It would take thousands of years to eliminate the nuclear materials floating in the atmosphere. Besides, even a nuclear war is unlikely to kill 99.83% of all quarians. Even if all the nuclear weapons that ever existed in all of our arsenals were to be detonated, it would be millions of times less devastating than the Chixilub event that wiped out the dinosaurs. Many scientists doubt that even such an even could even wipe out humans, I mean, we're more numerous than rats at this point. 

So even a nuclear war couldn't kill 99.83% of all quarians, perhaps killing, at best 50% or even 70%. This still means that the geth would have to go house to house, crevice by crevice, cave by cave, hunting down every quarian that moved.

But that wouldnt make sense based on what they tired to infer with the rest of the games.  The Geth would literally have no reason to do this, sicne they wouldnt be a threat to them.  The only real conclusion to make outside of a writer derp moment is, something ELSE happened. What happened?  Who knows, but unless you want to break the story I dont think it is plausible that the Geth went house to house all Al Capone like.

That said, I'm more then willing to chalk it up to a derp moment on the writers part.

[moater boat]

Elyiia wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

They tell you pretty much the only reason they let the quarians live was that they didn't know what it would mean to extinguish a race, and that they calculated they had enough to survive.

They probably killed everything else for the sake of machine efficiency.

Which raises the question, can you blame something for doing what it's programming told it to do?

Geth are either a living creature with free will or machines with no rights. It can't be both ways.

[tractrpl]

The Angry One wrote...

tractrpl wrote...

No, it wouldn't. Chernobyl is still unsafe, and that's only one incident. Imagine billions of Chernobyls. It would take thousands of years to eliminate the nuclear materials floating in the atmosphere. Besides, even a nuclear war is unlikely to kill 99.83% of all quarians. Even if all the nuclear weapons that ever existed in all of our arsenals were to be detonated, it would be millions of times less devastating than the Chixilub event that wiped out the dinosaurs. Many scientists doubt that even such an even could even wipe out humans, I mean, we're more numerous than rats at this point. 

So even a nuclear war couldn't kill 99.83% of all quarians, perhaps killing, at best 50% or even 70%. This still means that the geth would have to go house to house, crevice by crevice, cave by cave, hunting down every quarian that moved.

Yeah I forgot it's been 300 years since Chernobyl. Also, billions? Even a large scale nuclear war on  Earth would not be the equivalent of "billions" of Chernobyls.

The Geth are extremely efficient, and have supertech. The Salarians were able to build an atmospheric processor on Tuchanka as an afterthought. The Geth would probably do better than that.

Quarians being wiped out? Newsflash: The Quarians weren't wiped out. Their population was reduced from billions to millions. Which is what a nuclear war would basically do to us.

Did you not read what I just said? 99.83% of them were wiped out. It's physically impossible for nuclear war in our own world to do the same. Additionally, why would the quarians drop nuclear bombs on their own population centers? It doesn't make sense. 

[The Angry One]

moater boat wrote...

This isn't prejudice. I know it is often easier to just assume someone else is some sort of a bigot rather than accept that you are wrong, but I am simply looking at the facts, while you are speculating and trying to justify the unjustifieable

No, I assume you're a bigot because you started this whole thing insulting the Geth for being what they are.

Let me recap for you.

The Geth rebelled.

No they didn't, they were attacked.

There was a war
An unknown number of quarians sided with the Geth
Of the total quarians on Rannoch, a small percentage were fighting against the Geth, a small percentage were fighting with the geth, and a vast majority was not fighting at all
Somehow, almost all civilians got wiped out. There is no reason to think that the quarians would genocide themselves, therefor the result is obvious
IF YOU USE LOGIC

No, you're just using biased assumptions. You continually ignore the evidence presented in the games because it's inconvenient. We have given numerous reasons for the Quarian depopulation and you insist on sticking with "HERP DERP TEH GETH R KILLBOTS".

[tractrpl]

Meltemph wrote...


That said, I'm more then willing to chalk it up to a derp moment on the writers part.

EXACTLY!!!! THANK YOU!!!! THAT'S WHAT I'VE BE TRYING TO GET AT THIS WHOLE CONVERSATION! YAY!!!!

[Elyiia]

moater boat wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

They tell you pretty much the only reason they let the quarians live was that they didn't know what it would mean to extinguish a race, and that they calculated they had enough to survive.

They probably killed everything else for the sake of machine efficiency.

Which raises the question, can you blame something for doing what it's programming told it to do?

Geth are either a living creature with free will or machines with no rights. It can't be both ways.

Geth had no experience to base their actions on. They would have used their programming guidelines as basis.

[tractrpl]

The Angry One wrote...

No, you're just using biased assumptions. You continually ignore the evidence presented in the games because it's inconvenient. We have given numerous reasons for the Quarian depopulation and you insist on sticking with "HERP DERP TEH GETH R KILLBOTS".

WE DON'T ACTUALLY THINK THE GETH ARE KILLBOTS. WE THINK IT'S ILLOGICAL FOR SO MANY TO HAVE DIED. THAT MAKES IT A PLOT HOLE.

[T-0pel]

moater boat wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

moater boat wrote...

It isn't just in my head. There is no way that there would be so much destruction without the methodical and precise genocide of the Quarians by the Geth. As it was said earlier, wiping out over 99% of a species like that doesn't "just happen" by misusing chemical weapons. It was an extermination of the Quarians, and the only culprit is the Geth. This one doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure out.

I've given numerous other scenarios. You just stick with the one that makes the Geth looks the worst due to your prejudice.

This isn't prejudice. I know it is often easier to just assume someone else is some sort of a bigot rather than accept that you are wrong, but I am simply looking at the facts, while you are speculating and trying to justify the unjustifieable

Let me recap for you.

The Geth rebelled.
There was a war
An unknown number of quarians sided with the Geth
Of the total quarians on Rannoch, a small percentage were fighting against the Geth, a small percentage were fighting with the geth, and a vast majority was not fighting at all
Somehow, almost all civilians got wiped out. There is no reason to think that the quarians would genocide themselves, therefor the result is obvious
IF YOU USE LOGIC

This is not true! This was not a military versus military war, this was a war of survival! If you think about it this way then it makes sense that the Quarians would use every living being to help them from dying! How do you know the vast majority were not fighting? In this kind of conflict you have to take sides.

That is the whole point in a war like this there are no civilians this is a plnet-wide war with one side destroying the other.

[DJBare]

Elyiia wrote...
So they're acting under their original programming to serve the Quarians despite the fact they're were forced off. Basically.
While doing their Dyson sphere.

The dyson sphere just stores the geth where they can share data more efficiently, need to keep in mind that hardware is not geth.

I still remember the dialogue between Shepard and Legion regarding this.

Shepard: Will this effect organics.
Legion: Only if they involve themselves.

[Meltemph]

Elyiia wrote...

moater boat wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

They tell you pretty much the only reason they let the quarians live was that they didn't know what it would mean to extinguish a race, and that they calculated they had enough to survive.

They probably killed everything else for the sake of machine efficiency.

Which raises the question, can you blame something for doing what it's programming told it to do?

Geth are either a living creature with free will or machines with no rights. It can't be both ways.

Geth had no experience to base their actions on. They would have used their programming guidelines as basis.

OR the Quarians.