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[KDD-0063]

After DA2 and ME3, probably you will become a very careful customer if not already.

So, what kind of announcements and signs before DA2 release would make you very alerted worried careful about buying considering to buy DA3, and knock pre-ordering out of question?

To be clear, this thread is not something to bash DA3 because we have not heard anything except a few teasers and a system explained by David Gaider.

It's simply something like this:
There are patterns before a game releases in the interviews, in events such as PAX and E3, and in the demo and etc. So what kind of announcements, interviews or impressions from demo will get you worried if they appear?

A few of mine:

1) bad DLC from previous game. I did not pre-order DA2 because Awakening was an overpriced and forgettable addon, Witch hunt was bad and Leliana's song was very bugged. Wish I've done the same for ME3--now that I think about it, Arrival did make me a little worried.

We've already got that covered. Mark of the Assassin isn't really great. It's no more than a cheap excuse to involve Felicia Day. What's more is that it lacks choices. Indication of future...unpleasant.

2) Annoucements of some out of place characters

Like Fenris, a J-RPG character annouced in the DA universe; or Diana Allers. Now, it's not that Fenris is too badly written; but it's a sign that EA is trying to appeal to fans of other games and/or spending resources on ads/PR/whatever instead of on the game itself.

3) Short development cycle

This is a no-brainer.

4) No news on the toolset

Now, maybe the toolset needs to be licensed.
but that still means the replay value of the game won't be as high as if there is a toolset.

5) "Everyone is bisexual" or subjective sexuality

In my opinion this is the best way to homogenize the characters and make them forgettable. Also, if a character has subjective sexuality, it seems that said character will have weaker personality because his personality between different playthroughs will be different.

6) Interview before game launches

If Mike or someone talks how awesome the game is on console, I will be worried.

Now, what's your personal signs that could make you worried?

Modifié par KDD-0063, 20 avril 2012 - 07:27 .

[AlexJK]

KDD-0063 wrote...

Like Fenris, a J-RPG character annouced in the DA universe... Now, it's not that Fenris is too badly written; but it's a sign that EA is trying to appeal to fans of other games and/or spending resources on ads/PR/whatever instead of on the game itself.

Sorry, what's wrong with Fenris exactly?

3) Short development cycle

This is a no-brainer.

I'm not sure why a game with a longer development time would automatically be better. I mean; I'm not convinced that the perceived flaws in DA2 had much to do with it having a shorter development time.

4) No news on the toolset

Now, maybe the toolset needs to be licensed. but that still means the replay value of the game won't be as high as if there is a toolset.

For me, and a hell of a lot of other people, the toolset is irrelevant. Just saying...

[Dwarva]

1. Essential multiplayer like in ME3. I'm not a huge fan of multiplayer in general and basically having to play it to achieve the end I wanted was annoying. Not a deal breaker, but annoying.

2. Day 1 DLC. In this day and age it seems to be nearly unavoidable but it bugs me the most when it turns out it was already on the disk (ala From Ashes)

3. No LI. I think this one is INCREDIBLY unlikely given Bioware's track record but it's such a huge reason why I play them over other RPGs. Not necessarily the romance aspect I suppose, but the relationships they create between team mates.

4. Reducing companion options. They did this with ME to create closer relationships with certain teammates but if they played it like DA2 I don't think this would be needed. In DA2 you could choose to cultivate a relationship was as many or few teammates as you wanted. And it really shows in subsequent playthroughs. Last time I romanced Fenris and was a Templar heavy character who made a real effort with Sebastian, Varric and Isabela. I've just started a magecentric game where I'll generally roll with Anders and Merrril and will not spend a lot of time with Fenris. It creates two virtually separate games for me...

5. Limiting the dialogue options. Again, they did this with ME3 and when I play it against DA2 now it REALLY shows. I didn't take much notice at first but with DA you virtually get to choose every line The Warden/Hawke says. If it became a cut scene fest it would really put me off...

Those are the ones that stick out to me just now. In all honesty though (and I hate myself for saying it) there's very little that could stop me buying DA3. I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels like that and Bioware know it. I want to hear the end of the story, just like I did with ME. Unless they were to ROYALLY bugger it up, they'll probably get my £35....

Modifié par Staarbux, 16 avril 2012 - 09:05 .

[Maria Caliban]

I liked Dragon Age II and thought Mass Effect 3 was quite good outside of the ending.

Maybe if Mike had a nervous breakdown, climbed to the top of EPCOR Tower in a chicken suit, and declared himself the High Prince of Edmonton? No, I'd probably buy it even then.

If the previews have horrible graphics, the voice acting is terrible, the combat looks dull and repetitive, and the story doesn't interest me.

Otherwise, I'll pre-order.

AlexJK wrote...

3) Short development cycle

This is a no-brainer.

I'm not sure why a game with a longer development time would automatically be better. I mean; I'm not convinced that the perceived flaws in DA2 had much to do with it having a shorter development time.

Reuse of maps is a big one as level creation apparently takes a large amount of time.

[TheShadowWolf911]

i would pay to see Mike do that

[KDD-0063]

Sorry, what's wrong with Fenris exactly? 

Quoting Angry Joe: "esentially, a Final Fantasy character in the world of Dragon Age."

Of course, his story is probably better written than Anders or Merrill's story; also, I don't really think I should ask them to specifically avoid making a character look like it's from another genre, or have some fans, or whatever.

but between Fenris, Diana Allers and Tallis, especially the latter two, these characters really make me worry about where BiowarEA is going with ME and DA. Just a feeling.

I'm not sure why a game with a longer development time would automatically be better. I mean; I'm not convinced that the perceived flaws in DA2 had much to do with it having a shorter development time. 

In an interview David Gaider clearly states that he and other writers are under pressure, and it shows. The characters of DA2 are bland and forgettable; the story is also pretty weak.

I mean, it's not that a single bad sign makes me worried, but if the pattern repeats itself, such as Tallis to Allers or Witch hunt to Arrival, or MotA to From Ashes (imho, they are both overpriced at $10), it's enough to get me worried.

Modifié par KDD-0063, 16 avril 2012 - 09:27 .

[Maria Caliban]

The characters are great. The plot is haphazard. Would more time lead to a better plot? Possibly. Dragon Age II has a story that's different from BioWare's previous ones. I'm not surprised it was rough.

[daniel_schold]

I really like both DA games (including expansions and DLCs), but I'm not blind to the fact that there are things to improve. With the info we have right now (basically none), I don't see a reason to pass judgement on DA3 either way (as in pre-order, or decide not to play it).

If the developers live up to what they've said - showing us, the fans, their progress and ideas, and listening to our feedback - I think DA3 just might be the best game in the series yet. Of course there's always the risk of it going in the completely opposite direction, but with limited/none information - it's all just wishes at this stage.

Also, regarding expansions and DLCs... Just went back to playing through both games back-to-back, and to me it really does seem they're learning from their mistakes. That is, I think Awakening is a better product than Origins (that is, I enjoy playing it more... I find it short though, but hey - it's an expansion, not a sequel). DA2 seem like an experiment, and preparation for a DA3. So while it certainly has flaws (which have been mention many many many times here, so I won't bother), I still enjoy playing it and think it's a good game (could've been great, but fell a bit short of that). Legacy though, improved on most things I (and judging from the forums: others as well) had a problem with. Still not played through MotA, so I won't comment on that just yet (I'll sit down and play it shortly).

But, to return to the original topic: many things could turn me away from DA3 - but until we get something proper information, I can't say what those things would be (or I could make a silly list of things, which nobody would want to read). As for the sexuality... I personally don't see a problem with my all romanceable-companions being open to both genders - if done right. Romances in DA2 felt a bit odd, as several characters hit on "me" for no apparent reason - and there wasn't really a good way to turn any of them down. Anders is a good example for this... One quest and he seems to love you, and you get rivalry if you tell him you're not interested. A lot of his dialogue seems rushed however, maybe focus was elsewhere regarding his story hmm?

[BrookerT]

KDD-0063 wrote...

In an interview David Gaider clearly states that he and other writers are under pressure, and it shows. The characters of DA2 are bland and forgettable; the story is also pretty weak.

The characters were not bland and forgettable. 

[Obliterati]

A short development cycle is the only thing I really worry about. 90% of the problems I had with DA2 and ME3 were, imo, the result of time/budget constraints.

But I'm actually feeling fairly optimistic about this with DA3. Given the sales performance of DA2 and EA's ongoing financial problems, it's pretty unlikely that budgets will be increased anytime soon. However, everything I've read indicates that DA3 is still pretty early in it's development cycle.

I fully expected EA to bleed the series dry with annual or 18-month sequels, so the unlikelihood of DA3 coming out in 2012 is - to me - very encouraging.

*shrugs* We'll see.

[Cultist]

1. Dialogue Wheel
Bad sign that they decided to keep it. Compared to Origins thanks to dialogue wheel conversations were extremely limited, leaving you with near-linear and simplified dialogues. hey can't even approac BG2 or Fallout 2 level. And wheel is here to stay. Somehow, I doubt they will add something to it, maybe make it a bit fancier, but still we'll probably be left with Yes, No and Investigate.
2. Voiced Protagonist
Cutting origins, race and voices was terrible. First step towards jRPGs with pre-set protagonists. And they are keeping it for DA3.
3. Combat.
Biggest disappointment. Complete overhaul of combat system turned tactical battles into hack'n'slash with arcade movement, acrobatic over-the-top animations and bashing awesome buttons. I never actually used tactical approach, positioning or actually planned any battle on nightmare difficulty walkthrough - just hit hit hit.
4. Art style.
Animu is uopn us. Swords that are longer that character itself, teleportations, ridiculous darkspawn and so on. Actually, I'm ok with Fenris' appearance, it is other things I'm worried about.
5. Quest simplification.
Later BioWare products showed significant decrease in quest quality - both DA2 and ME3 had on of the most boring and simplified quests - as people here on forums named them "Fetch Quests". Move to X, get Y, brind to Z.
6. Electronic Arts
Electronic arts already killed two of my favorite franchizes, and I think they intend to o the same with DA. This worries me a lot.
7. Forgettable companions
I agree with OP about all-bisexual all-forgiving companions are forgettable and shallow. They will never leave you, never turn on you, they are just fillers and mannequins that provide additional fire support for constant battles. Their lack of personality is a worriesome sign. 
9. Decisons
In both ME3 and DA2 none of your decisons matter. You'll get three-colour ending in ME3 and ONE ending for DA2. No epilogues, nothing. Compared to The Witcher, where almost every your decisions bears some consequences, DA2 and ME3 were a bleak experience.

I still have hope that this bad signs could be a false ones and BioWare can restore Dragon Age to former glory, but their statements on the forums are disturbing - wheel, voiced protaonist, desire to stick with DA2 - that is very disappointing... Yet they also stated that companion customiation will be present, and that means they are actually changing something. So there's still some little hope that DA3 will appeal primary to RPG fans, instead of "Call of Duty Crowd".

[Uncleansed]

I'm not just worried about DA3, i'm more worried about Biowares future.

Modifié par Uncleansed, 16 avril 2012 - 12:44 .

[LeBurns]

If the word 'Awesome' is ever used to describe DA3, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

They would have to get rid of the Anime look and go back to Western style RPG.

I would have to see combat footage that doesn't look like Ninja Space Monkeys in heat.

[Dessalines]

I think I am more worried that some people who plays video games have lost all touch with reality, and do not have lives in which they don't have their real LIs, adventures, and or real accomplishments, si tget they need a video game to be whatever they perceive as "perfect" to satify what is missing in their live. If not, the game is not fun.

That being said, I am going to preorder Dragon Age 3 I enjoyed both games.

Modifié par Dessalines, 16 avril 2012 - 01:00 .

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

LeBurns wrote...

If the word 'Awesome' is ever used to describe DA3, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.

They would have to get rid of the Anime look and go back to Western style RPG.

I would have to see combat footage that doesn't look like Ninja Space Monkeys in heat.

Good summary of how I feel.

Also, cheap marketing tactics, like the demo ending with Isabela's 'offer', not to mention isabela's overall look. I felt that they were trying to manipulate me into liking the game.. 'look! boobies! Buy our game!'

Edit:

Also, multiplayer tied to single player cmpaign and forced use of Origin are a show stopper for me. I didn't buy ME3

Modifié par Shinian2, 16 avril 2012 - 01:08 .

[LolaLei]

BrookerT wrote...

KDD-0063 wrote...

In an interview David Gaider clearly states that he and other writers are under pressure, and it shows. The characters of DA2 are bland and forgettable; the story is also pretty weak.

The characters were not bland and forgettable. 

I agree.

They weren't bland/forgettable, we just weren't given the chance to delve into their backstories or get to know them as indepth as we could with our companions in DA:O. Whether that was down to limited time or resources I don't know but David Gaider and the others said at PAX that they acknowledge this was a problem and plan to rectify it in DA3.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

LolaLei wrote...

BrookerT wrote...

KDD-0063 wrote...

In an interview David Gaider clearly states that he and other writers are under pressure, and it shows. The characters of DA2 are bland and forgettable; the story is also pretty weak.

The characters were not bland and forgettable. 

I agree.

They weren't bland/forgettable, we just weren't given the chance to delve into their backstories or get to know them as indepth as we could with our companions in DA:O. Whether that was down to limited time or resources I don't know but David Gaider and the others said at PAX that they acknowledge this was a problem and plan to rectify it in DA3.

They came across as one-note, at least some of them. *looking at Fenris, Isabela and  Anders*

[AlexJK]

Maria Caliban wrote...

AlexJK wrote...

I'm not sure why a game with a longer development time would automatically be better. I mean; I'm not convinced that the perceived flaws in DA2 had much to do with it having a shorter development time.

Reuse of maps is a big one as level creation apparently takes a large amount of time.

OK, fair point; that one is entirely down to development time! Not sure why they ever thought they'd get away with it...

KDD-0063 wrote...

Quoting Angry Joe: "esentially, a Final Fantasy character in the world of Dragon Age."

Of course, his story is probably better written than Anders or Merrill's story; also, I don't really think I should ask them to specifically avoid making a character look like it's from another genre, or have some fans, or whatever.

Ah. I've never played a FF game, so don't really understand that comparison. To me, Fenris fits absolutely fine into the DA universe - his presence doesn't seem incorrect or out of place, any more than the dragons themselves make me feel like I'm in any of the hundreds of other fantasy universes which use them...

In an interview David Gaider clearly states that he and other writers are under pressure, and it shows. The characters of DA2 are bland and forgettable; the story is also pretty weak. 

I don't think I've read/seen that interview, but some people work well under pressure? Hey, if the writers say they don't have enough time, that's pretty conclusive - and certainly something they should fix. I'm not sure that a weak story can be blamed on development time though. I think they tried a different approach to the story, narrative and ending, and it just didn't go down as well as they'd hoped. I don't think another 12 months development time would have altered the outcome there.

[LolaLei]

Shinian2 wrote...

LolaLei wrote...

BrookerT wrote...

KDD-0063 wrote...

In an interview David Gaider clearly states that he and other writers are under pressure, and it shows. The characters of DA2 are bland and forgettable; the story is also pretty weak.

The characters were not bland and forgettable. 

I agree.

They weren't bland/forgettable, we just weren't given the chance to delve into their backstories or get to know them as indepth as we could with our companions in DA:O. Whether that was down to limited time or resources I don't know but David Gaider and the others said at PAX that they acknowledge this was a problem and plan to rectify it in DA3.

They came across as one-note, at least some of them. *looking at Fenris, Isabela and  Anders*

I figured that was because Bioware rushed their personal development stories, we never really get to see what motivates them beyond whatever issue is currently defining them (for example Anders and the Mage's plight) even though we occasionally catch a glimpse of their other personality traits it wasn't anywhere near as much as we did in DA:O. That's why I liked the MotA dlc because all the characters seemed much more relaxed and we got to see different sides to them.

I kinda felt like Bioware had started to go back along the DA:O inspired route for the MotA dlc, they seemed to make more of an effort with party banter and it was more puzzle heavy, giving you more options than just fighting your way through waves of bad guys, it's setting felt much more dynamic too with vastly different areas to explore

... It seems like they've at least learnt their lesson regarding some of the issues we had with DA2, which is a start I guess.

[Huntress]

I am not worried at all here is why:
1)if the game is about humans and seekers I won't buy it.
2)if the game comes with multiple races and Mymage is not forced to work for the chantry then i buy it.
3) If dual wield is not put back for warriors and allow wielding sowrds then I'll be Whining, ****ing and Moaning.
4)If I can't kill who i do not like then I'll be Whining, ****ing and Moaning even more.

[FieryDove]

AlexJK wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Reuse of maps is a big one as level creation apparently takes a large amount of time.

OK, fair point; that one is entirely down to development time! Not sure why they ever thought they'd get away with it...

In that old thread when Mike came back to the forums...its locked long ago. He basically said it was a gamble. Either reused environs or a much shorter game. I don't think people would have praised a 10-15hr rpg but who knows?

Also if you listened to the marketing crew on DA2, all areas should look the same. DAO had too many different looking areas and should have been 20 games not 1! Yes...they said that.

And yep level creation takes a huge amount of time...speaking from experience.

If any EA people read these forums...please just let Bio do what Bio does best as they see fit. I want to see Bioware do well and the DA franchise.

Modifié par FieryDove, 16 avril 2012 - 03:41 .

[Sejborg]

Meh. I most likely wont buy DA3. There is too much wrong with DA2. I might rent it at my library though. Here is some of the reasons that I won't buy DA3:

- If some of the characters that I don't like return as companions.

- If the art is as bad as DA2.

- If the combat looks as bad as DA2.

- If the animations looks as bad as DA2.

- If the story seems to be as bad as DA2. - The templar vs. mages conflict have become tedious.

- If the companions appear to be more of the same type of cardboard characters as in DA2. Sorry. But I just didn't see much depth in them.

- If they make yet another disgusting prelaunch DLC stunt.

- If I can't decide my characters race and class.

- If I can't try the game in a demo before launch

- If the demo sucks

- If the environments seems to be as lifeless as DA2.

- If the game is short.

Modifié par Sejborg, 16 avril 2012 - 04:04 .

[jbrand2002uk]

I'm just amazed that such fickle people call themselves fans like Clint Eastwood says "Nag Nag Nag"

[TheDrekey]

Well, to be fair, most of the fickle people did not call themselves fans

I'm probably going to buy it.. I always have a LOT of fun with Bioware games and I think even though DA2 was no DA:O nor ME 2(haven't played 3 yet) it had its strengths.

The only thing that can make me not buy it, its if it turns up to be more an EA game then a Bioware game.

You know what I mean, obviously made to please the masses, with big boobs and gratuitous violence everywhere. With aggressive and miss placed marketing and business schemes. You know the deal.

Now if this tread was about what I wanted to see in DA3? Now there I would have to agree with plenty of you...