145 réponses à ce sujet

[tankdogg937]

"Fans" (and I use the term loosely) will always find something to complain about. There is only so far you can go with any game. You can appease one group of people but then another group will say this sucks. They could spend 10 years in development, never reuse environments, and people would still be whining.

[AlexJK]

tankdogg937 wrote...

"Fans" (and I use the term loosely) will always find something to complain about. There is only so far you can go with any game. You can appease one group of people but then another group will say this sucks. They could spend 10 years in development, never reuse environments, and people would still be whining.

10 years! YOU CAN'T MAKE US WAIT TEN YEARS BIOWARE THAT'S ABUSE, ABUSE I TELL YOU!!!!!!11111

[Cantina]

tankdogg937 wrote...

"Fans" (and I use the term loosely) will always find something to complain about. There is only so far you can go with any game. You can appease one group of people but then another group will say this sucks. They could spend 10 years in development, never reuse environments, and people would still be whining.

Sadly, this is true and it will always be true.

There is also a fine line of making your dislikes known with
ground to stand on and explaining your reasons or simply complaining just to
complain. Unfortunately, there are people out there who are not happy unless
they complain and could carless if their complaints hold merit (on a opinion or
non-opinion level). If there is no obvious reason to complain about whatever it
is, then to me it falls into the category of whining. Everyone has opinions
sure, but sometimes, well sometimes those opinions just sound like my two-year-old
nephew pissed he did not get what he want.  I have seen the repercussions of what happens
to games when people whine and the developers give in, believe me it is not a
pretty sight. In the end, the fans who chose to spew out idiotic complaints are
giving the developers a headache. Their job is not easy they do their best,
they certainly are not perfect and they know this. However, when you have fans
who do not understand this it can get downright ugly. Want the game to be
better? Then voice your opinion or whatever in a diplomatic manner, you will go
much further then crying about it.

[hussey 92]

DA 2 was a disappointment. What's the point of having forums if we can't talk about it

[brushyourteeth]

I do have a few concerns (most of which I'm hopeful about seeing resolved once the team gets to "show, not tell" about it), but here's the biggest.

Multiplayer. Pretty sure I'm not mistaken when I say that's going to take a hefty chunk of time and programming space away from the main storyline. Love DA, love multiplayer games, would totally buy one if they made it into a separate game or expansion. Just don't want to see a silly feature that we already have in dozens of other great games take space and effort out of what otherwise could be an excellently crafted (and hopefully, longer) game.

Modifié par brushyourteeth, 18 avril 2012 - 05:01 .

[r3dKrypt0nite]

Cultist wrote...

1. Dialogue Wheel
Bad sign that they decided to keep it. Compared to Origins thanks to dialogue wheel conversations were extremely limited, leaving you with near-linear and simplified dialogues. hey can't even approac BG2 or Fallout 2 level. And wheel is here to stay. Somehow, I doubt they will add something to it, maybe make it a bit fancier, but still we'll probably be left with Yes, No and Investigate.
2. Voiced Protagonist
Cutting origins, race and voices was terrible. First step towards jRPGs with pre-set protagonists. And they are keeping it for DA3.
3. Combat.
Biggest disappointment. Complete overhaul of combat system turned tactical battles into hack'n'slash with arcade movement, acrobatic over-the-top animations and bashing awesome buttons. I never actually used tactical approach, positioning or actually planned any battle on nightmare difficulty walkthrough - just hit hit hit.
4. Art style.
Animu is uopn us. Swords that are longer that character itself, teleportations, ridiculous darkspawn and so on. Actually, I'm ok with Fenris' appearance, it is other things I'm worried about.
5. Quest simplification.
Later BioWare products showed significant decrease in quest quality - both DA2 and ME3 had on of the most boring and simplified quests - as people here on forums named them "Fetch Quests". Move to X, get Y, brind to Z.
6. Electronic Arts
Electronic arts already killed two of my favorite franchizes, and I think they intend to o the same with DA. This worries me a lot.
7. Forgettable companions
I agree with OP about all-bisexual all-forgiving companions are forgettable and shallow. They will never leave you, never turn on you, they are just fillers and mannequins that provide additional fire support for constant battles. Their lack of personality is a worriesome sign. 
9. Decisons
In both ME3 and DA2 none of your decisons matter. You'll get three-colour ending in ME3 and ONE ending for DA2. No epilogues, nothing. Compared to The Witcher, where almost every your decisions bears some consequences, DA2 and ME3 were a bleak experience.

I still have hope that this bad signs could be a false ones and BioWare can restore Dragon Age to former glory, but their statements on the forums are disturbing - wheel, voiced protaonist, desire to stick with DA2 - that is very disappointing... Yet they also stated that companion customiation will be present, and that means they are actually changing something. So there's still some little hope that DA3 will appeal primary to RPG fans, instead of "Call of Duty Crowd".

Hit the nail on the head.

[Monica83]

r3dKrypt0nite wrote...

Cultist wrote...

1. Dialogue Wheel
Bad sign that they decided to keep it. Compared to Origins thanks to dialogue wheel conversations were extremely limited, leaving you with near-linear and simplified dialogues. hey can't even approac BG2 or Fallout 2 level. And wheel is here to stay. Somehow, I doubt they will add something to it, maybe make it a bit fancier, but still we'll probably be left with Yes, No and Investigate.
2. Voiced Protagonist
Cutting origins, race and voices was terrible. First step towards jRPGs with pre-set protagonists. And they are keeping it for DA3.
3. Combat.
Biggest disappointment. Complete overhaul of combat system turned tactical battles into hack'n'slash with arcade movement, acrobatic over-the-top animations and bashing awesome buttons. I never actually used tactical approach, positioning or actually planned any battle on nightmare difficulty walkthrough - just hit hit hit.
4. Art style.
Animu is uopn us. Swords that are longer that character itself, teleportations, ridiculous darkspawn and so on. Actually, I'm ok with Fenris' appearance, it is other things I'm worried about.
5. Quest simplification.
Later BioWare products showed significant decrease in quest quality - both DA2 and ME3 had on of the most boring and simplified quests - as people here on forums named them "Fetch Quests". Move to X, get Y, brind to Z.
6. Electronic Arts
Electronic arts already killed two of my favorite franchizes, and I think they intend to o the same with DA. This worries me a lot.
7. Forgettable companions
I agree with OP about all-bisexual all-forgiving companions are forgettable and shallow. They will never leave you, never turn on you, they are just fillers and mannequins that provide additional fire support for constant battles. Their lack of personality is a worriesome sign. 
9. Decisons
In both ME3 and DA2 none of your decisons matter. You'll get three-colour ending in ME3 and ONE ending for DA2. No epilogues, nothing. Compared to The Witcher, where almost every your decisions bears some consequences, DA2 and ME3 were a bleak experience.

I still have hope that this bad signs could be a false ones and BioWare can restore Dragon Age to former glory, but their statements on the forums are disturbing - wheel, voiced protaonist, desire to stick with DA2 - that is very disappointing... Yet they also stated that companion customiation will be present, and that means they are actually changing something. So there's still some little hope that DA3 will appeal primary to RPG fans, instead of "Call of Duty Crowd".

Hit the nail on the head.

Indeed same for me

[thebigbad1013]

Okay, I liked Dragon Age 2 but I fully agree that it had it's issues, but I'm surprised that people think the companions were forgettable. To me, the companions and the relationships you could build with them were one of the best things about DA2. I'm really not that worried about DA3 because the devs have already stated, more or less, that they will be adressing the things that most people complained about in DA2.

Honestly, I love Dragon Age enough that it would take a lot for me to not buy this game and what I have heard and read from Mike Laidlaw so far has only made me more excited for DA3.

[5trangeCase]

The companions in Dragon Age 2 were far more interesting than those in Origins. I only liked 1 character in Origins, while I tolerated all the characters in Dragon Age 2 (except for Isabela).

And the story was much more interesting than "go kill the archdemon".

Dragon Age 2 definitely had its issues, (it had less than two year's development time ffs) but both the companions and the story were an improvement as far as I'm concerned. The only problems I'd cite in the story would be Orsino and Meredith, who, whether it was bad voice-acting or storytelling, up until the last moment seemed incredibly reasonable people (Meredith being reasonable for a bigot, but you don't need Soul Edge to be a bigot). I thought that was rather stupid.

[Bizantura]

Loved DAO + expansion, couldn't care less about DA2. They killed their ME baby with ME3's bad ending and plothole problems. Would never pay for swtor with a monthly fee just for a story based experience online = just bad economics. But I will save my opinion after I played DA3. I like to anticipate like anybody else but this whining is about to be annoying.

[Dakota Strider]

Regarding specific issues, I think Cultist said it the most eloquently about most issues that have been troubling many of us.

One other thing. Bioware seems to try to run its business in a way that is different than almost any other type of large business that makes its money by providing customers either a product or a service; If Ford Motors (as a random example) releases a new model, and it turns out that it gets a lot of customer complaints and sales are down; they do not make it their public policy to say they believe that car was great, that people that drive the car just do not understand their artistic vision, and that their next model will be made to resemble the failed one, because the engineers at Ford want to demonstrate their artistic integrity. What they do, is make it known that those issues are going to be addressed immediately (the next model year), they bring in different engineers and designers to fix the areas at fault. They will either reassign or release designers and engineers that are not delivering products that the customers want, or will buy. They will go out of their way, to make sure that they do not insult the customer, and avoid at all costs issuing statements that infer that the customer just does not know what is good.

It is this type of behaviour, perhaps a symptom of being controlled by EA, in recent years that makes me worried about the direction of Bioware as a whole, and makes me much more skeptical of their products. I will definitely buy and play DA3. But, unless I hear some things that are quite different from Bioware HQ, than they have been for the last year or so, I will not be pre-ordering. I will probably not buy it on or near the release date. I will wait for it to be marked down in price at least once, just because I do not wish to buy another of their games and finish it feeling like they just do not get it anymore.

Modifié par Dakota Strider, 19 avril 2012 - 05:06 .

[hussey 92]

5trangeCase wrote...

The companions in Dragon Age 2 were far more interesting than those in Origins. I only liked 1 character in Origins, while I tolerated all the characters in Dragon Age 2 (except for Isabela).

And the story was much more interesting than "go kill the archdemon".

Dragon Age 2 definitely had its issues, (it had less than two year's development time ffs) but both the companions and the story were an improvement as far as I'm concerned. The only problems I'd cite in the story would be Orsino and Meredith, who, whether it was bad voice-acting or storytelling, up until the last moment seemed incredibly reasonable people (Meredith being reasonable for a bigot, but you don't need Soul Edge to be a bigot). I thought that was rather stupid.

The Origins companions were amazing, some of the best Ive seen in RPGs.  The DA2 characters were all forgetable in comparison and whined the whole game.

And the Origins story is much better.  In Origins, you get to rebuild and entire army, and you get to go to all these  different places.  The DA2 story was just "your popular now, pick a side.  Doesnt matter which one, theres only one ending"

I also don't understand the 2 years development time arguement.  It's Biowares fault they rushed it on the shelfs.

[cJohnOne]

I think adding things back can be difficult. Like a simple rapier would add new animations and I think only a few people would actually use it. Same thing with a mace for warriors. etc.

[PinkShoes]

I agree with a lot you said but one thing i am so tired of if people blaming consols for bad games!

[BubbleDncr]

r3dKrypt0nite wrote...

Cultist wrote...

1. Dialogue Wheel
Bad sign that they decided to keep it. Compared to Origins thanks to dialogue wheel conversations were extremely limited, leaving you with near-linear and simplified dialogues. hey can't even approac BG2 or Fallout 2 level. And wheel is here to stay. Somehow, I doubt they will add something to it, maybe make it a bit fancier, but still we'll probably be left with Yes, No and Investigate.
2. Voiced Protagonist
Cutting origins, race and voices was terrible. First step towards jRPGs with pre-set protagonists. And they are keeping it for DA3.
3. Combat.
Biggest disappointment. Complete overhaul of combat system turned tactical battles into hack'n'slash with arcade movement, acrobatic over-the-top animations and bashing awesome buttons. I never actually used tactical approach, positioning or actually planned any battle on nightmare difficulty walkthrough - just hit hit hit.
4. Art style.
Animu is uopn us. Swords that are longer that character itself, teleportations, ridiculous darkspawn and so on. Actually, I'm ok with Fenris' appearance, it is other things I'm worried about.
5. Quest simplification.
Later BioWare products showed significant decrease in quest quality - both DA2 and ME3 had on of the most boring and simplified quests - as people here on forums named them "Fetch Quests". Move to X, get Y, brind to Z.
6. Electronic Arts
Electronic arts already killed two of my favorite franchizes, and I think they intend to o the same with DA. This worries me a lot.
7. Forgettable companions
I agree with OP about all-bisexual all-forgiving companions are forgettable and shallow. They will never leave you, never turn on you, they are just fillers and mannequins that provide additional fire support for constant battles. Their lack of personality is a worriesome sign. 
9. Decisons
In both ME3 and DA2 none of your decisons matter. You'll get three-colour ending in ME3 and ONE ending for DA2. No epilogues, nothing. Compared to The Witcher, where almost every your decisions bears some consequences, DA2 and ME3 were a bleak experience.

I still have hope that this bad signs could be a false ones and BioWare can restore Dragon Age to former glory, but their statements on the forums are disturbing - wheel, voiced protaonist, desire to stick with DA2 - that is very disappointing... Yet they also stated that companion customiation will be present, and that means they are actually changing something. So there's still some little hope that DA3 will appeal primary to RPG fans, instead of "Call of Duty Crowd".

Hit the nail on the head.

I find it a little odd that you find the voice acting as "a first step wtowards jRPGs with a pre-set protagonist" but then later on praise the Witcher for it's decisions/consequences. Do you also have that same problem with The Witcher? Or are you just willing to overlook it?

Because I personally have never been able to get into the Witcher because I dislike Geralt - if they had given me the option to play as a female character, I would have had no problem. But I guess that wouldn't fit well with their story. So it seems they limit you choices, too.

[Rjames112]

To be honest, listening to Mike Laidlaw at the Pax panel made me feel pretty good about the development. While all the info they were talking about was said to be not about any specific project but "you can do the math" to which project they refer, they were saying directly they would make changes.

[BomberJR]

Well vote with your wallets. Don't preorder the game and wait for it to be out and actual gamer reviews (not gaming site reviews) are posted. Then give it a try if you like what you hear.

I for one will never buy a game on day 1. Too much potential to be a big waste of money.

[Knight Commander]

Too right on number 5 my friend.

[Deadmac]

KDD-0063 wrote...
After DA2 and ME3, probably you will become a very careful customer if not already.
So, what kind of announcements and signs before DA2 release would make you very alerted worried careful about buying considering to buy DA3, and knock pre-ordering out of question?

Personally, I am not going to buy "Dragon Age III". Regardless about what they publicly promise, my experience with the end of "Dragon Age II" (or Act III specifically) ended the series. Once I noticed people had problems with "Mass Effect III's" ending, I knew BioWare was moving in a downward spiral. BioWare was a great developer, and I have nothing but respect for the company. After experiencing the demo for "Dragon Age II", I held back until the game was being sold for $20. It was a very smart move on my part. BioWare is going in a direction in which I cannot follow. Even though it pains me to the core, I can no longer remain a supportive fan and consumer.

Since I enjoy the "Dragon Age: Origins" series, I will keep an account here to maintain a hold on my property.

God bless you BioWare. Good luck.

Modifié par Deadmac, 21 avril 2012 - 03:07 .

[hussey 92]

BubbleDncr wrote...

r3dKrypt0nite wrote...

Cultist wrote...

1. Dialogue Wheel
Bad sign that they decided to keep it. Compared to Origins thanks to dialogue wheel conversations were extremely limited, leaving you with near-linear and simplified dialogues. hey can't even approac BG2 or Fallout 2 level. And wheel is here to stay. Somehow, I doubt they will add something to it, maybe make it a bit fancier, but still we'll probably be left with Yes, No and Investigate.
2. Voiced Protagonist
Cutting origins, race and voices was terrible. First step towards jRPGs with pre-set protagonists. And they are keeping it for DA3.
3. Combat.
Biggest disappointment. Complete overhaul of combat system turned tactical battles into hack'n'slash with arcade movement, acrobatic over-the-top animations and bashing awesome buttons. I never actually used tactical approach, positioning or actually planned any battle on nightmare difficulty walkthrough - just hit hit hit.
4. Art style.
Animu is uopn us. Swords that are longer that character itself, teleportations, ridiculous darkspawn and so on. Actually, I'm ok with Fenris' appearance, it is other things I'm worried about.
5. Quest simplification.
Later BioWare products showed significant decrease in quest quality - both DA2 and ME3 had on of the most boring and simplified quests - as people here on forums named them "Fetch Quests". Move to X, get Y, brind to Z.
6. Electronic Arts
Electronic arts already killed two of my favorite franchizes, and I think they intend to o the same with DA. This worries me a lot.
7. Forgettable companions
I agree with OP about all-bisexual all-forgiving companions are forgettable and shallow. They will never leave you, never turn on you, they are just fillers and mannequins that provide additional fire support for constant battles. Their lack of personality is a worriesome sign. 
9. Decisons
In both ME3 and DA2 none of your decisons matter. You'll get three-colour ending in ME3 and ONE ending for DA2. No epilogues, nothing. Compared to The Witcher, where almost every your decisions bears some consequences, DA2 and ME3 were a bleak experience.

I still have hope that this bad signs could be a false ones and BioWare can restore Dragon Age to former glory, but their statements on the forums are disturbing - wheel, voiced protaonist, desire to stick with DA2 - that is very disappointing... Yet they also stated that companion customiation will be present, and that means they are actually changing something. So there's still some little hope that DA3 will appeal primary to RPG fans, instead of "Call of Duty Crowd".

Hit the nail on the head.

I find it a little odd that you find the voice acting as "a first step wtowards jRPGs with a pre-set protagonist" but then later on praise the Witcher for it's decisions/consequences. Do you also have that same problem with The Witcher? Or are you just willing to overlook it?

Because I personally have never been able to get into the Witcher because I dislike Geralt - if they had given me the option to play as a female character, I would have had no problem. But I guess that wouldn't fit well with their story. So it seems they limit you choices, too.

Vioce acting worked for the Witcher because it was focused around one main character (Geralt).  While Dragon Age is expected to have a variety of races and backrounds to choose from and since it seems like they can only have 2 vioce actors (one male, one female), the vioced PC takes away from those chioces.

I also find it strange that you don't like the WItcher because you can't play as a female.  I've never heard anyone say they didn't like Tomb Raider, Metroid or Heavenly Sword cause they couldnt play as a male.

Modifié par hussey 92, 21 avril 2012 - 04:08 .

[Sutekh]

hussey 92 wrote...

I also find it strange that you don't like the WItcher because you can't play as a female.  I've never heard anyone say they didn't like Tomb Raider, Metroid or Heavenly Sword cause they couldnt play as a male.

Neither of those are roleplaying games.

[hussey 92]

Sutekh wrote...

hussey 92 wrote...

I also find it strange that you don't like the WItcher because you can't play as a female.  I've never heard anyone say they didn't like Tomb Raider, Metroid or Heavenly Sword cause they couldnt play as a male.

Neither of those are roleplaying games.

A fair point.  But they would of had to rewrite alot of the game in order for it to work with a female PC.  also the Witcher is based off of a book series with Geralt as the main character.

Some RPGs have customizable characters and some have set characters

[Rjames112]

Regardless of the fixed or customisable character debate, voiced or not I think the most important aspect lacking from DA2 was the impact of game choices in the ending. Though that being said in reality DA:O was not the bastion of free will it is touted to be; the quests to build your allies, the Landsmeet all lead to the same 3 outcomes at the end of the game. There's a difference between having your decisions matter and having free reign.

As I said before Mike Laidlaw has said that decisions will matter; implementation will be another matter.