276 réponses à ce sujet

[Elyiia]

Funkdrspot wrote...

So to you, mass galactic extinction is better than being without the relays. Good to know.

Oh and in case you missed it, there was a thread that talked about travel. It would only take a few years for most races to get back to their homeworlds.

A few years, sure. If you can constantly go at FTL speed, which you can't or you get fried by radiation. Not to mention the various fuels required. And the food required. These are military ships (aside from the liveships) that have just gone into what is supposed to be a suicide fight. They are not going to have the supplies necessary.

EDIT: lol military sheep.

Modifié par Elyiia, 16 avril 2012 - 01:32 .

[Kreid]

The more you think about it the less sense it makes.

The only logical explanation would have been indeed for the Catalyst to have instigated the Crucible to begin with but it's so nonsensical it hurts.

[lillitheris]

I actually made a rather funny Hitler analogy some time ago, but that got locked so maybe I should try to come up with a new one…

OK, consider this scenario: North Korea has gotten nukes and started launching them randomly around the world. You're a commando sent to Pyongjang and you fight your way to Kim. Before you can take him out, Kim tells you that to solve the whole nuke thing, you should push this red button here.

What do you do?

Modifié par lillitheris, 16 avril 2012 - 01:33 .

[Fawx9]

DJBare wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

Why imply it in the first place then?

The whole point of that implication is to get Shepard thinking that he will not only wipe out pure synthetics but also anyone with implants, like himself. 

Because he is trying to pull a bluff with half truths?

So while not directly stating he will die, he wants Shepard to belive that he will. 

Glad we got that cleared up. Cause I think my head was starting to spin in circles. 

[Funkdrspot]

The Angry One wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

You destroy a destroyer using the 'mother of all thresher maws', then another using a small portion of the Quarian fleet not currently engaging the Geth AND a specialized guidance laser that can only cut through reaper jamming for a short time and also easily with a Cain.

Fixed for you.

Nah you tell the Quarians to target the whole damn fleet on that one spot. Video supports it.
www.youtube.com/watch

AND it's b/c you've found a weak point in the reapers. The priming chamber

[DJBare]

Funkdrspot wrote...

lol no it wasnt. It clearly laid out the time it would take and the current speeds in the ME universe.

They cannot maintain FTL for long, and bare in mind all of these ships have seen battle, they need to rebuild, now I wonder where those resources are coming from, certainly not earth in it's current state.

[Eire Icon]

Fawx9 wrote...

Eire Icon wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

Which makes no sense if at the end of each cycle the races were leavingbehind things that would help the next. I mean why wouldn't you tell the next cycle how the bloody citidal actually works. 

The Reapers actively wipe out all traces of the previous cycle bar what they want the next cycle to see. This has been explained in ME1

Crucible plans. 

If they can hide those, they can hide the information for the Citidal.

Or are you going to tell me the Reapers knew of the plans all along?

Cause I don't think you want to do that.  

They did - Clues were hidden all over the Galaxy, well hidden so they wouldn't be detected by the Reapers or their agents

The information on the Crucible was hidden way with certain safeguards as explained by the Protheon VI. Its also possible that not everything hidden away was discovered in time

[Funkdrspot]

lillitheris wrote...

I actually made a rather funny Hitler analogy some time ago, but that got locked so maybe I should try to come up with a new one…

OK, consider this scenario: North Korea has gotten nukes and started launching them randomly around the world. You're a commando sent to Pyongjang and you fight your way to Kim. Before you can take him out, Kim tells you that to solve the whole nuke thing, you should push this red button here.

What do you do?

apples and oranges.

The catalyst does not make the crucible.

[Elyiia]

Funkdrspot wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

You destroy a destroyer using the 'mother of all thresher maws', then another using a small portion of the Quarian fleet not currently engaging the Geth AND a specialized guidance laser that can only cut through reaper jamming for a short time and also easily with a Cain.

Fixed for you.

Nah you tell the Quarians to target the whole damn fleet on that one spot. Video supports it.
www.youtube.com/watch

AND it's b/c you've found a weak point in the reapers. The priming chamber

Doesn't change the fact that the Quarian fleet is currently engaged in a fight with the Geth fleet. Shepard might have wanted the whole fleet but I doubt s/he got it.

[Ziggeh]

Heh, most people here value integrity over life.

[Eire Icon]

Fawx9 wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

Why imply it in the first place then?

The whole point of that implication is to get Shepard thinking that he will not only wipe out pure synthetics but also anyone with implants, like himself. 

Because he is trying to pull a bluff with half truths?

So while not directly stating he will die, he wants Shepard to belive that he will. 

Glad we got that cleared up. Cause I think my head was starting to spin in circles. 

I actually took it that he was trying to explain Synthesis as not that alien a concept. As in your partly syntethic yourself

[The Angry One]

Funkdrspot wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

You destroy a destroyer using the 'mother of all thresher maws', then another using a small portion of the Quarian fleet not currently engaging the Geth AND a specialized guidance laser that can only cut through reaper jamming for a short time and also easily with a Cain.

Fixed for you.

Nah you tell the Quarians to target the whole damn fleet on that one spot. Video supports it.
www.youtube.com/watch

AND it's b/c you've found a weak point in the reapers. The priming chamber

Visual evidence > Shepard's hyperbole. The whole fleet is clearly not firing.

[Funkdrspot]

DJBare wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

lol no it wasnt. It clearly laid out the time it would take and the current speeds in the ME universe.

They cannot maintain FTL for long, and bare in mind all of these ships have seen battle, they need to rebuild, now I wonder where those resources are coming from, certainly not earth in it's current state.

You're throwing out junk excuses that rely on mass assumption.

[Shaigunjoe]

Personally I don't think the star child exists as scene anyway, but I'll bite for fun.

I also don't get the people complaining about not having more options. Do they expect Shep to be able to rewire the crucible to work in a particular way? There are other times in the series when I wish I could have been given different choices (especially as a renegade), you usually just have two, at least here you have three, with widely different implications.

[DJBare]

Fawx9 wrote...

So while not directly stating he will die, he wants Shepard to belive that he will. 

Glad we got that cleared up. Cause I think my head was starting to spin in circles. 

It's a good bluff for a Shepard that wants to keep EDI, the geth alive, it makes the choice of destroy more difficult, the other two options keep the reapers alive.

Bare in mind these are only my opinions on the other two choices.

A dead Shepard cannot control the reapers.
Synthesis is the reapers ultimate goal.

[xxskyshadowxx]

Eire Icon wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

It is surrender. Surrender to the will of the Catalyst. Shepard is trusting that the Catalyst is telling the truth with no reason to. Shepard is gambling everyone's future on the word of this psychotic, genocidal liar.
It's surrender, because the Catalyst is making the terms and controlling the situation. It decides the price that must be paid. It is holding the galaxy hostage.

There is no reason not to believe that the Catalyst is telling the truth. Again Shepard is out of options.

Shepard isn't gambling everyones future as at that moment in time they have no future, he has nothing to gamble.

I find it amazing that you would find extinction preferable to being forced into a difficult and not completely ideal choice

Why is Shepard committing genocide over his/her own race and every other race even considered a viable option? Shepard is not out of options.....the Catalyst merely says he/she is. Shepard wouldn't choose extinction, but Shepard would likely looked for other options first...he/she has done that very thing in the past. That behavior was simply abandoned by the writers when they forced the players into the single bespoke ending they initially said they weren't going to force the players into.

There were multiple options that could have been explored in lieux of the Cruicible/Catalyst scenario...but the writers preferred to go with the Gunbuster/Matrix/Deus Ex rip-off ending and in order to do that they had to force the narrative down an illogial path.

[Eire Icon]

DJBare wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

lol no it wasnt. It clearly laid out the time it would take and the current speeds in the ME universe.

They cannot maintain FTL for long, and bare in mind all of these ships have seen battle, they need to rebuild, now I wonder where those resources are coming from, certainly not earth in it's current state.

hang on are these the ships that I was being told could defeat the reapers a second ago?

Ships can be repaired over time

[FS3D]

Elyiia wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

So to you, mass galactic extinction is better than being without the relays. Good to know.

Oh and in case you missed it, there was a thread that talked about travel. It would only take a few years for most races to get back to their homeworlds.

A few years, sure. If you can constantly go at FTL speed, which you can't or you get fried by radiation. Not to mention the various fuels required. And the food required. These are military ships (aside from the liveships) that have just gone into what is supposed to be a suicide fight. They are not going to have the supplies necessary.

EDIT: lol military sheep.

I just had an image of a metallic lamb with the Alliance logo on its' side going "BAAAAAAAAAAAAA!" as it screams across the sky.

[Elyiia]

Funkdrspot wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

lol no it wasnt. It clearly laid out the time it would take and the current speeds in the ME universe.

They cannot maintain FTL for long, and bare in mind all of these ships have seen battle, they need to rebuild, now I wonder where those resources are coming from, certainly not earth in it's current state.

You're throwing out junk excuses that rely on mass assumption.

No, it's fact that maintaining FTL for too long results in a radiation that kills everyone inside. Not to mention military ships use anti-protons as a fuel, which you can't just harvest from a random planet.

[DJBare]

Funkdrspot wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

lol no it wasnt. It clearly laid out the time it would take and the current speeds in the ME universe.

They cannot maintain FTL for long, and bare in mind all of these ships have seen battle, they need to rebuild, now I wonder where those resources are coming from, certainly not earth in it's current state.

You're throwing out junk excuses that rely on mass assumption.

What, those ships were not in combat against an indomitable enemy?, we must have been playing a different game.

[lillitheris]

Funkdrspot wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

I actually made a rather funny Hitler analogy some time ago, but that got locked so maybe I should try to come up with a new one…

OK, consider this scenario: North Korea has gotten nukes and started launching them randomly around the world. You're a commando sent to Pyongjang and you fight your way to Kim. Before you can take him out, Kim tells you that to solve the whole nuke thing, you should push this red button here.

What do you do?

apples and oranges.

The catalyst does not make the crucible.

You bring your gun to Kim. Before you can take him out by shooting with your gun, Kim tells you that you should use the gun to shoot at the wall instead, because shooting the wall causes poisonous gas to be released, and he's wearing a bulletproof vest so it's the better choice.

The Catalyst self-identifies as the leader/controller of your enemy. Why do you trust it?

[Eire Icon]

xxskyshadowxx wrote...

Why is Shepard committing genocide over his/her own race and every other race even considered a viable option? Shepard is not out of options.....the Catalyst merely says he/she is. Shepard wouldn't choose extinction, but Shepard would likely looked for other options first...he/she has done that very thing in the past. That behavior was simply abandoned by the writers when they forced the players into the single bespoke ending they initially said they weren't going to force the players into.
.

Hang on how is the destroy option or control option committing genocide over his own race ?

[Elyiia]

FS3D wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

So to you, mass galactic extinction is better than being without the relays. Good to know.

Oh and in case you missed it, there was a thread that talked about travel. It would only take a few years for most races to get back to their homeworlds.

A few years, sure. If you can constantly go at FTL speed, which you can't or you get fried by radiation. Not to mention the various fuels required. And the food required. These are military ships (aside from the liveships) that have just gone into what is supposed to be a suicide fight. They are not going to have the supplies necessary.

EDIT: lol military sheep.

I just had an image of a metallic lamb with the Alliance logo on its' side going "BAAAAAAAAAAAAA!" as it screams across the sky.

I honestly would prefer it if the Crucible transformed into a giant metallic sheep that then turned the Reapers into Reaper-Grass and ate them. I mean if you're going to throw out logic and theme you may as well go all the way.

[Funkdrspot]

The Angry One wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

You destroy a destroyer using the 'mother of all thresher maws', then another using a small portion of the Quarian fleet not currently engaging the Geth AND a specialized guidance laser that can only cut through reaper jamming for a short time and also easily with a Cain.

Fixed for you.

Nah you tell the Quarians to target the whole damn fleet on that one spot. Video supports it.
www.youtube.com/watch

AND it's b/c you've found a weak point in the reapers. The priming chamber

Visual evidence > Shepard's hyperbole. The whole fleet is clearly not firing.

So in this particular instance you've chosen to not take Shepard literally and to rely on the video not showing EVERYONE shooting.

And i'm sure when the time comes you'll flip flop as long as it supports your point.

Either way, it was supposed to demonstrate a sizeable portion of the quarian ships shooting the reaper at a weak point with accuracy it wouldn't normally have. Even with said reaper being injured and not really moving much, it still takes 5 direct hits at its weak point.

[The Night Mammoth]

Funkdrspot wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

Hackett says they can't win conventionally throughout the whole game. Otherwise I'm sure he'd organize a better battleplan than going head to head.

Hackett is a fallible mortal. What he says doesn't necessarily match what you do and see in the game. 

You know, like the message you recieve after reaching 100% Galactive Readiness with stupid high war assets, or how the Turians and Krogan were holding their own on Palaven, or how your kill Destroyers left right and center using VERY conventional methods. 

You're so desperate to find a plothole you're reaching.

Plothole? I never said anything about plotholes.

Hackett is a General and the #1 organizer of all the galaxy's militaries at this point and you're seriously suggesting that somehow he's wrong?

Fallible, not necessarily outright wrong. 

100% galactic readiness says 'holding and winning in key locations'. But you're winning against ground troops.

Still holding and winning. 

The Turians and Krogans are 'holding'. The game actually makes mention about the fact that it's troubling that they're only at a stalemate even WITH the Krogan.

A stalemate is still a stalemate. No one ever said beating the Reapers would be easy. 

You destroy a destroyer using the 'mother of all thresher maws', then another using the entire might of the quarian fleet AND a specialized guidance laser that can only cut through reaper jamming for a short time.

No arguments about that Thresher Maw, it was pretty big. 

The second one though is blown out of proportion. It doesn't look like the 'entire might of the quarian fleet' to me, more like a few of their ships in orbit, and the guidance laser was circumstancial.

Even then, you take out a Destroyer using infantry heavy weapons, and then another using a missile.


Essentially, just because someone says it's impossible does not mean it is. How many impossible tasks has Shepard accomplished? If everything people in Mass Effect were true, Saren would have let Sovereign use the Citadel Relay and we wouldn't have a Mass Effect franchise. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 16 avril 2012 - 01:46 .