276 réponses à ce sujet

[Storm258]

I think we got a certain problem here. OP says that the three options are how the Crucible is meant to work. But I see pretty much a lack of logic here. If those three options are the intention of the Crucible from the beginning, then what is up with the Destruction option?
No machine I know of activates in the supposed way when you damage it instead of just activating it.
I mean, when you choose destroy, it's not like the whole thing blows up and destroys the Reapers, no, it charges up and fires regularly - so how would that happen when I take a gun and shoot the thing? I don't say that I would fully support the "reject star child" idea, neither would I oppose, my point is just that there is indeed something wrong with these choices, not about plotholes or Shepard acting not like Shepard, but just about logic.

[Tleining]

Funkdrspot wrote...

You know this, because the speculation fairy told you so? 

The reapers targeted major cities and they target PEOPLE. Who is to say what resources remain.

And Infrastructure. Which means Factories, Refineries, Spacedocks, ......

[AtlasMickey]

The Angry One wrote...

GiarcYekrub wrote...

Synthsis wins for me, everytime.

You should've just let Saren kill you and save yourself a whole lot of work then.

Saren --> Synthetic hybrids in service of the Reaper order
Synthesis --> Synthetic hybrids in service of whomever they choose or no one.

Modifié par AtlasMickey, 16 avril 2012 - 02:08 .

[The Night Mammoth]

Eire Icon wrote...

They've got an undamaged Crucible sitting up in space, its huge. I'm not saying it would be easy but there is nothing to suggest everyone is doomed

If you choose Control. 

Even then, the Crucible is locked inside the Citadel. 

[a.m.p]

Storm258 wrote...

I think we got a certain problem here. OP says that the three options are how the Crucible is meant to work. But I see pretty much a lack of logic here. If those three options are the intention of the Crucible from the beginning, then what is up with the Destruction option?
No machine I know of activates in the supposed way when you damage it instead of just activating it.
I mean, when you choose destroy, it's not like the whole thing blows up and destroys the Reapers, no, it charges up and fires regularly - so how would that happen when I take a gun and shoot the thing? I don't say that I would fully support the "reject star child" idea, neither would I oppose, my point is just that there is indeed something wrong with these choices, not about plotholes or Shepard acting not like Shepard, but just about logic.

This too.
Literaly nothing about how the crucible actually works makes sense. I'm beginning to appreciate the theory that grandpa stargazer just forgot how the story ended and made it all up.

So having a 'no' option would allow to bypass most of the nonsense completely.

[Elyiia]

How does shooting a cylinder cause something to fire anyway?

[Eire Icon]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Eire Icon wrote...

They've got an undamaged Crucible sitting up in space, its huge. I'm not saying it would be easy but there is nothing to suggest everyone is doomed

If you choose Control. 

Even then, the Crucible is locked inside the Citadel. 

I'll take collatoral damage over extinction any day

Theres no happy ever after here (which is possibly some peoples problem) and yes there will be huge problems post Reapers.

Shepard however does not have time to weigh all this up in his head.

I'll go back to my point that there is absolutely no suggestion in game that the galaxy is now doomed

[a.m.p]

Elyiia wrote...

How does shooting a cylinder cause something to fire anyway?

It's a metaphor. I guess. Question is since when was Mass Effect a metaphor for the sake of metaphor.

[Firmijn]

I want an ending where I can walk op to starchild's harddrive, and put a big, fat, bullet in it. several of them.

Then I call Hackett, and tell them that Adolf Reaper and his "final solutions" are done for, and order the fleet to blow the rest of those overgrown genocidal bedbugs out of the sky.
And then Shepard is going to eat a sandwich.

[Elyiia]

Firmijn wrote...

I want an ending where I can walk op to starchild's harddrive, and put a big, fat, bullet in it. several of them.

Then I call Hackett, and tell them that Adolf Reaper and his "final solutions" are done for, and order the fleet to blow the rest of those overgrown genocidal bedbugs out of the sky.
And then Shepard is going to eat a sandwich.

If we're forced to listen to Star-Jar there should have been a renegade option to shoot him, disrupting the Reaper communications or something, giving our fleet an advantage.

[a.m.p]

Eire Icon wrote...

I'll go back to my point that there is absolutely no suggestion in game that the galaxy is now doomed

Because there is zero information on what happens to the galaxy before the credits and then there is stargazer that suggests that far in the future people still didn't restore normal interstellar travel. While this isn't exactly doomed, it's hardly hopeful or uplifting.

[warrior256]

I just want the ability to tell him that he is wrong when he says that organics and synthetics always fight or that the created will always rebel against the creator. I hate that I am supposed to accept his circular logic as the unquestionable truth.

[Elyiia]

a.m.p wrote...

Eire Icon wrote...

I'll go back to my point that there is absolutely no suggestion in game that the galaxy is now doomed

Because there is zero information on what happens to the galaxy before the credits and then there is stargazer that suggests that far in the future people still didn't restore normal interstellar travel. While this isn't exactly doomed, it's hardly hopeful or uplifting.

The Stargazer scene suggests in 10,000 years we still don't have normal interstellar travel. To me that says by the time we do, there's going to be another dominant species. Just think how far humans have progressed in the last 100 years.

[DJBare]

AtlasMickey wrote...


Saren --> Synthetic hybrids in service of the Reaper order
Synthesis --> Synthetic hybrids in service of whomever they choose or no one.

You forgot merged with the catalyst, or are we all forgetting that the catalyst is some kind of synthetic.

"All synthetic and organic life will be merged"

Which begs the question, is there a choice?

[The Night Mammoth]

Eire Icon wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Eire Icon wrote...

They've got an undamaged Crucible sitting up in space, its huge. I'm not saying it would be easy but there is nothing to suggest everyone is doomed

If you choose Control. 

Even then, the Crucible is locked inside the Citadel. 

I'll take collatoral damage over extinction any day

To me, that would depend on the extent of the collateral damage. Killing billions and destroying civilzation, and then either genociding the Geth (Red door), opening the possibility for the cycle to continue (Blue door), or turning everyone into cyborgs with unknown repurcussions(Green door) are all costs too high without knowing more.

Theres no happy ever after here (which is possibly some peoples problem) and yes there will be huge problems post Reapers.

It's one of my problems, although there would never be a 'happy ever after', regardless of whether Shepard and his friends live and meet up afterwards. 

Shepard however does not have time to weigh all this up in his head.

The player does, but the information is thin on the ground. 

I'll go back to my point that there is absolutely no suggestion in game that the galaxy is now doomed

The galaxy isn't doomed, but then again Shepard (probably more my Shepard) wasn't fighting to save the galaxy so it's a better place thousands of years down the line, he fought for this cycle, his friends, and this generation of species. This cycle is doomed regardless.

[Eire Icon]

a.m.p wrote...

Eire Icon wrote...

I'll go back to my point that there is absolutely no suggestion in game that the galaxy is now doomed

Because there is zero information on what happens to the galaxy before the credits

Agree 100%, as I said before I don't like the ending. I see it as incomplete with too many unanswered questions and no closure

But having an option to refuse to make a choice in my opinion makes no sense and makes it even worse

a.m.p wrote...

and then there is stargazer that suggests that far in the future people still didn't restore normal interstellar travel. While this isn't exactly doomed, it's hardly hopeful or uplifting.

Where and how is that suggested?

Because the kid asks when she can go to the stars ?

[Nobrandminda]

 If Destruction is supposed to be the ending you pick if you reject the Catalyst, it's not a very strong rejection.

"You're wrong.  Organics and synthetics can get along.  I'm going to prove how wrong you are by killing all of my synthetic allies." 

[PsyrenY]

KingZayd wrote...

the way to defy the starchild is to pick destroy. It's the only option it doesn't like.

Yes, clearly he hates it so much that he suggested it to you and even showed you how to do it.

Logic, people.

[PsyrenY]

The Angry One wrote...

You are submitting to the will and agenda of the Reaper commander. I'm not dramaticising anything.
He controls the Reapers. They are his solution. His own words. You are doing what he says.

The Reaper Commander who was reprogrammed by your device.

Stop posturing.

[shodiswe]

You can see that the catalyst admits it's solution isn't perfect. Thats where Iwant to start shouting at the catalyst!!! Seriously if it could be convinced to leave then everyone would be saved with no nasty repercussions... It contorlls the reapers it could theoretically just up and leave everyone alone, isn't it worth trying to talk some sense into that monster rather than immediately dooming an entire specis? Not to mention all the other damage and possible deaths throughout the galaxy?

Worst thing that could come from a battle of words and arguments would be that you have to pick one of those three options anyway, at least you know you tried. Giving up without trying is a worse sinn than doing your best. You already know the catalyst isn't in a position to stop the crucible any time soon and the allied forces are still putting up a fight out there.

I want my epic speach and battle of the minds!!

The catalyst already told you you had 3 options without even trying to get a better deal, and beyond that it's prepared to admit it's solution isn't perfect.
That indicates a negotiation possibility. Like trying to get both the quarrians and geth on you side... Now here's your chance to talk down the reapers and become that saint Garrus talked about... The impossible, talk down a reaper.. or rather the reapers leader. The ultimate Mass effect challenge, and it just dissapeared.

Then you meet Javic...

Javic: What hapend?!? No explosions they just ran off like scarred little schoolgirls....

Shepard: I had a conversation with the reapers over some milk and cookies and as we talked we came to agree that it would be best if the reapers left this galaxy, never to return again..

Grunt suddenly shows up...

Grunt: That's what I tell all my recruits, if you meet a human that knocks of your feet just by talking then you, then will know you've meet Shepard. While I love warstories, I have a feeling those bigwords would put me in a coma for a few centuries.

Javic: The protean scientists who studdied humanity could never determine what kind of "special" potential humanity actualy had, most specis had something, I guess they never looked for blabbermouth potential. After all such attributes we're penalized with a deathsentence in my cycle..

[Noelemahc]

And then Shepard is going to eat a sandwich.

Now that's an ending I can get behind. The poor sod never eats ANYTHING in the three games, only consumes vast amounts of alcohol.
Is Shepard a Slade fan?
"'Cos I'm walking on water/Running on alcohol..."

Because there is zero information on what happens to the galaxy before the credits and then there is stargazer that suggests that far in the future people still didn't restore normal interstellar travel. While this isn't exactly doomed, it's hardly hopeful or uplifting.

I'll never get tired of repeating it. Tethercat princinple. Going on what information Shepard has, ignoring the Codex (because it's written in-universe, remember? It's data on Reaper tech is less reliable than if Shepard were to doodle them on a used napkin, because throughout ME2 it was convinced as the rest of the Alliance that Sovereign was a Geth ship), you can ONLY infer that the mass relays WILL explode, WILL wipe out galactic life as we know it, and while it WILL end the cycles, it WILL also do the Reaper's work for them. And that's not something my Shepard, or your Shepard, or anyone else's Shepard would ever want.

Modifié par Noelemahc, 16 avril 2012 - 02:31 .

[Funkdrspot]

warrior256 wrote...

I just want the ability to tell him that he is wrong when he says that organics and synthetics always fight or that the created will always rebel against the creator. I hate that I am supposed to accept his circular logic as the unquestionable truth.

My thought is that when they release the DLC, the catalyst will talk about countless other galaxies and how the most end up in a termporary peace like with the geth and quarians, only to end up doomed a few millenia later

[a.m.p]

Eire Icon wrote...

a.m.p wrote...

and then there is stargazer that suggests that far in the future people still didn't restore normal interstellar travel. While this isn't exactly doomed, it's hardly hopeful or uplifting.

Where and how is that suggested?

Because the kid asks when she can go to the stars ?

Because
1) 'The Shepard'. Why do you call a person you know existed and you know was called Shepard "the Shepard"? You don't. Unless it's a creepy cult, which would be worse. That means at some point historical records of the event, if there were any, were lost and no contact with more informed people was made.

2) The old man's speech about planets being homes to all sorts of different life. To me it clearly says that he has as clear an idea, what is actually out there in space, as my own grandfather right now does. This is not a person in an advanced multi-species spacefaring galactic community talking.

[Storm258]

Firmijn wrote...
Then I call Hackett, and tell them that Adolf Reaper and his "final solutions" are done for

Lol, that gave me an idea, why it would actually be natural for any Shepard or any human in general to doubt/ask Starchild's intentions.

I mean, imagine you could timetravel back to the Second World War and talk to Hitler. He of course would tell you that he is the good guy and he does the right thing, despite most of the world would say he is evil. But sure Hitler himself would tell you that he has good reasons for what he is doing, and from his point of view, that is true. But as most other people see it differently, the conclusion is that Hitler is insane, so you have to fight him, even though he himself doesn't see why he is wrong.

And now you meet Starchild and tells you "I control the Reapers". So the first thing you probably think is: "The one who controls the Reapers is my worst enemy." - Hitler "controled" the ****s (that word gets censored? Alright, then: national socialists ;P), so that's kinda the same here.
So Starchild starts explaining the Reapers' intentions which seem illogical and wrong to you, or at least most of us players. But what does Shepard? He just gives in an doesn't talk back.
That would be like Hitler explaining his reasons of actions to you and you just say: Oh ... didn't see it that way all the time. Guess I'll might just join you now.

That's mostly how it felt for my. Why believe someone and even more or less surrender someone who actually is your worst enemy, when he is the one who controls the Reapers, those guys who killed gazillions of people for such a long time?  -> Lack of logic and Shepard out of character

Modifié par Storm258, 16 avril 2012 - 02:33 .

[Elyiia]

shodiswe wrote...

You can see that the catalyst admits it's solution isn't perfect. Thats where Iwant to start shouting at the catalyst!!! Seriously if it could be convinced to leave then everyone would be saved with no nasty repercussions... It contorlls the reapers it could theoretically just up and leave everyone alone, isn't it worth trying to talk some sense into that monster rather than immediately dooming an entire specis? Not to mention all the other damage and possible deaths throughout the galaxy?

Worst thing that could come from a battle of words and arguments would be that you have to pick one of those three options anyway, at least you know you tried. Giving up without trying is a worse sinn than doing your best. You already know the catalyst isn't in a position to stop the crucible any time soon and the allied forces are still putting up a fight out there.

I want my epic speach and battle of the minds!!

The catalyst already told you you had 3 options without even trying to get a better deal, and beyond that it's prepared to admit it's solution isn't perfect.
That indicates a negotiation possibility. Like trying to get both the quarrians and geth on you side... Now here's your chance to talk down the reapers and become that saint Garrus talked about... The impossible, talk down a reaper.. or rather the reapers leader. The ultimate Mass effect challenge, and it just dissapeared.

Then you meet Javic...

Javic: What hapend?!? No explosions they just ran off like scarred little schoolgirls....

Shepard: I had a conversation with the reapers over some milk and cookies and as we talked we came to agree that it would be best if the reapers left this galaxy, never to return again..

Grunt suddenly shows up...

Grunt: That's what I tell all my recruits, if you meet a human that knocks of your feet just by talking then you, then will know you've meet Shepard. While I love warstories, I have a feeling those bigwords would put me in a coma for a few centuries.

Javic: The protean scientists who studdied humanity could never determine what kind of "special" potential humanity actualy had, most specis had something, I guess they never looked for blabbermouth potential. After all such attributes we're penalized with a deathsentence in my cycle..

I could totally get behind this.