24 réponses à ce sujet

[AKOdin]

So, I think most people know about the fixed result pickpocket in Lothering (where you get a T7 Xbow from the profiteering merchant).

However, I haven't seen anyone post about the pickpocket tables for the random characters... ie, almost everyone else in the game.

I've noticed that in Ostagar, you can pickpocket Duncan for a Master Hale rune if you are persistent (once you come back from the treaty/blood vial collection. Prior to I got a flawless small nature crystal). Duncan is orange/red/elite character. Yellow characters tend to rotate through topazes, various healt pots, money, and Novice Runes in Ostagar.

Has anyone pinned down what the various pickpocket options are and how they scale? Anyone found the table in the toolset which lists the potential results?

Apologies in advance if this was previously posted and I didn't find it through the search tool.

[Kileyan]

Sorry I have no info to contribute, but thanks for posting. I tried pick pocket a few times, and with the long cooldown just figured it wasn't worth the few things I got. I'll be more persistent. Didn't even know a decent crossbow existed in the game.

[DragoonKain3]

Only thing I know is that you get the best shield in the game (Champion's Shield with a whopping total of +15 defense) by pickpocketing Bhelen's right hand man (Vastgar was it?).



Never bothered with the rest. If there's another unique item apart from Champion's Shield that can only be acquired through pickpocketing, it must not be listed in the Prima guide, as all worthwhile items listed there people already know how to get.

[AKOdin]

I think "best shield" depends on what you are looking for. If it is defense, Howe's shield gives +18 defense total I think. The Champion Shield is nice though. You can also get two of them, as it seems like the game "restocks" a character whenever it spawns in a new area/location.



I'm more curious about what is possible through the random tables... for example, has anyone actually managed to pickpocket a revenant (the vial spawned ones)? I never have, and wonder if it is possible.

[kenshindono]

good info, maybe you can figure out whats up with the dog table, and him saying he 'brought you an item' and it adding absolutely nothing to your item table =P

Modifié par kenshindono, 06 décembre 2009 - 09:29 .

[CID-78]

all i notice is that the higher level (in pickpocket + cunning) you are the better stuff you pick pocket. except for the pre placed stuff such as the xbow. You can pick 60-70 silver from the beggars in the dust town. and they claim to be poor, damn lying bastards.



you can probably find the formula in the toolset and the random list.

[IndyAnna]

AKOdin wrote...

Has anyone pinned down what the various pickpocket options are and how they scale? Anyone found the table in the toolset which lists the potential results?

Apologies in advance if this was previously posted and I didn't find it through the search tool.

Yes, Discobird did here.

http://social.biowar...66/index/243304

[AKOdin]

@ Indy



Yes, Discobird has contributed a ton. However, I'm not asking about the mechanics of the steal "check," I'm asking where the loot tables are called from. I skimmed that thread again, and I didn't see that info...



I would imagine that white NPC's have one loot table, and yellows another, and red/orange yet a third. It wouldn't surprise me if there is a player level input as well, so a level 20 player can get better loot from a white NPC than a level 5 PC. Thanks tho.

[IndyAnna]

Sorry, I read your op wrong. I just assumed loot was random to your (eta, stealing) level.

I picked the keeper in danish origins, got a plot item once and money the other time. I had L2 stealing and around 15 or 16 cunning.

The one time I got the money, I got the plot item from another npc but I never figured out what to do with the plot item either time, and it disappears from the plot inventory after the origin story.

Modifié par IndyAnna, 06 décembre 2009 - 02:58 .

[Jassper]

The AI is a bit low on PP.

I PP'ed an Item from Prince Bhalan (sp?) before he became king. Once he was king he gave me the item I PP'ed earlier except nothing was placed in my inventory. Don't you think that he should have noticed he wasn't holding anything when he handed it to me?



The dialog should have been;

"Here take this ... err ... what? ... Well not sure where I placed it, so take this instead"

[DragoonKain3]

AKOdin wrote...

I think "best shield" depends on what you are looking for. If it is defense, Howe's shield gives +18 defense total I think. The Champion Shield is nice though. You can also get two of them, as it seems like the game "restocks" a character whenever it spawns in a new area/location. 

Main problem I have with Howe's shield is the high STR requirement. If you're min/maxing for DEX, it requiring 8 more STR to equip means that Champion's Shield has +23 total defense (due to it requiring 8 less STR that can be put into DEX) compared to Howe's +18.

[Matthew Young CT]

the function called when you steal is TreasureStolen in sys_treasure_h if you want to figure it out:)

[AKOdin]

@Dragooon: Good point... I guess i just assumed that any sword and board character would be a warrior with some talents in the tree, and have enough strength to wear the bigger armor. If you don't mind, who do you use the Cham Shield with?

@Matt: K... thanks. I do want to figure it out, but I think I may need a few more breadcrumbs. When I open the toolset, where would I go to find the "sys" type files? The toolset wiki did not yield results after the few searches I attempted.

Edit: NM Matt, I found it. Lots of lines of code stuff. For those interested, open the toolset, click on the icon on the right of the screen that say "scripts" and then click on the "_Systems" folder that shows up, the the "_Includes" folder.

The scrips button is mixed in with a bunch of other buttons on the right, like "areas" and "merchants."

Modifié par AKOdin, 06 décembre 2009 - 06:25 .

[Matthew Young CT]

scripts button on the palette window, _Systems, _Includes, sys_treasure_h

[AKOdin]

Bah- your post didn't show up when I refreshed the screen first. Ignore my edit. Thanks!

[Bluesmith]

Not precisely what the OP is looking for, but worth mentioning. With respect to static steals, the quartermaster in Ostagar produces Hardy's Belt on pickpocket. It's not bad at all so early in the game, and can be stolen twice thanks to the nighttime "restocking" bug.

[AKOdin]

@ Blue- Yep, I'd forgotten about that one. +1 Con is never bad.



@Matt or anyone, really: After looking at the sys_treasure_h for a while, I think I'm stuck. When stealing, the game seems to check the creatures rank and category, the theif's level, and then consult a 2da. I can't find the 2da.



The 2da appears to be called "Table_Stealing" or "TS_Column_Resource," but I didn't see it in the 2das accessible in the Dragon Age Folder.

Any help or pointers would be appreciated.

[Matthew Young CT]

2das are compiled (they werent compiled in nwn and it was slooooooow) from .xls files. theyre in tools/source/2da/



I'm not sure if its referring to the TS_Category_xxxx files. I think those are the loot files for mobs and placeables, might be for stealing too.

[AKOdin]

I think you are correct about the what the category reference is. Annoyingly, each one of the TS_Category_xxx files has multiple files within it (like xxxCreature, Elite Creature, EliteBoss Creature, etc).

I guess the next thing I should do when I get curious is figure out how to load a given area of the campaign, and then figure out which NPC's are listed as belonging to X category. For Example, I don't know what category the various rev's belong too.

Partial progress is better than none, though!

[CID-78]

looks like you shall wait with PP until you reach as high level as possible before doing it, if you want as much value as possible out of the pickpocketing.

[AKOdin]

Well, as it occurred to me that the DLC stuff is "locked" and pickpocketing (at least on the PC) can result in crystals, the TS_Category_xxx tables have to be incomplete. They make no mention of Shale's crystals

An in game "test" of stealing from Harrowmont (red/orange?) at level 10 and level 23 resulted in a higher tier of crystals being available (flawless v. clear) and a single rune tier change (one master hale v. a bunch of expert).
However, even stealing at level 23 resulted in expert runes at times.
Has anyone ever stolen a GM rune, and do they remember the circumstances?

Edit: Maybe 40 pp's were done. Additionally, I just started playing my normal level 10 save again, and he stole a flawless crystal. So, maybe the PC level has nothing whatsoever to do with stealing results, and that single master rune was just an outlier of what is normally possible.

Modifié par AKOdin, 08 décembre 2009 - 06:24 .

[Matthew Young CT]

Stealing from a creature functions the same as a normal treasure drop, except the loot is only ever a single Minor Item. No Money or Major Items will be dropped.



The TS_OVERRIDE_STEALING variable allows special functionality to be added when a creature is stolen from. A value placed in the override is actually an ID lookup in the TS_Stealing 2DA. When that creature is stolen from (and a creature can normally only be successfully stolen from once), it gets the item resource referenced by that ID and adds it to the treasure gained from stealing.



Stealing from creatures is mostly handled by systems, so there are only a couple places a designer can interact with it. First it will be useful to describe exactly what happens when the Stealing skill is used.



When a character tries to use Stealing on another creature, it checks a variety of factors on the character and the target to determine success. If the target has already been stolen from, the character neither succeeds nor fails. If the character fails, the EVENT_TYPE_STEALING_FAILURE event is fired on the current area. If the character succeeds, the EVENT_TYPE_STEALING_SUCCESS event is fired on the current area and the FLAG_STOLEN_FROM variable on the target is set to TRUE. Additionally, a successful use of the Stealing skill causes the Treasure System to generate a single Minor Item on the character using the skill. This requires the target to be properly set up for the Treasure System.



The EVENT_TYPE_STEALING_FAILURE and EVENT_TYPE_STEALING_SUCCESS events are intended for use in the Infamy system and will be used in the Stealing Reactivity pass.



The FLAG_STOLEN_FROM variable can be set on a creature manually to allow them to be immune to stealing attempts. This can be used to shield plot characters from the skill, though Stealing won't actually remove any items from their inventory. Additionally, you can set the flag to FALSE through scripting to allow the player to steal from a target more than once. Creatures with this flag set will not fire EVENT_TYPE_STEALING_FAILURE or EVENT_TYPE_STEALING_SUCCESS events, so they won't interact with the Infamy system.

From the toolset wiki. I dunno if it has different definitions or just wrong though, since it says stuff like being unable to steal money ...

[Johnsen1972]

I picked a tier 8 starmetal sword from Ruck.

[Last Darkness]

dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Stealing:_Profitable_Targets

[mav76]

The money you can get definitely scales by level. My level 19 Cunning Rogue is pulling 25-50 silver from white NPC's (and enemies using Combat Stealing), and even more from higher ranks. Though it was definitely less at lower levels.



On the other hand, I just played the Mage Origin using Advanced Party to allow me to set beginning skills of all followers; which meant I could give Jowan's girlfriend stealing. Most NPCs gave only 5-10 coppers--though others still gave lesser health pots or reagents, same as white ranked NPCs with level 19 Rogue).



It would seem that the items don't scale much or at all, while the money gained from pickpocket scales with either character(or target?) level or perhaps stealing level/Cunning?



Anyone experimented by looking at average stealing amounts in Lothering done right away vs. coming back after gaining several levels? Though if it's set by the target level, then it may not change, since Lothering NPC's might retain their level from the first time the map is loaded. Of course, if it does change in response to character level, then it would be more profitable to wait to pickpocket until later.



If stealing is based on NPC levels, it would favor waiting to do the maps with lots of pickpocket targets until later--so start with Mage Tower (very few pickable targets) first to boost levels, then move on to areas like Redcliffe and the Elves, and save Orzammar for last (most targets to pickpocket there).