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How Could They Violate Basic Writing/Plot Structure?


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#1
SolidisusSnake1

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I know this has been stated many times before but it still just baffles me, how could BioWare a company known for writing excellence suddenly abandon the very basics of writing at the very end of the game? How could any writer do such a thing and think it was ok? I mean any person with a basic understanding of story and plot structure knows that you NEVER introduce a new conflict at the very end of a story, especially the end of a trilogy. It violates the very fundamentals of basic plot structure:

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I mean it baffles me even more because all previous games have adhered to this basic plot structure as well as the herocs arc, even ME3 follows this formula until the very end where they decide to jump off a cliff. Even if you believe Casey and Mac sat in a room and wrote this out I still find it hard to believe either of them would just shoe away the basic fundamentals of plot structure for no reason.

Right now I can only think of two reasons why they did this and neither have very good implications:

1. They confused a "new conflict" as a "twist"- BioWare is know for having super twists in their games, hell its what made ME1 so great. So perhaps they wanted ME3 to have its own SUPER twist that no one could see and thus came up with Synths v. Organics and the Reapers actually protecting us. Problem is there is a HUGE difference between a twist and a new conflict, a twist while unexpected are always foreshadowed. Once the twist is revealed you can almost always go back through the story and find it blatantly staring you in the face. Also a twist almost never changes the conflict it usually just gives you more information. For example finding out your Revan in KOTOR did not change your ultimate goal to stop Malik, Luke discovering Vader was his father didnt change the fact that the Empire needed to be defeated,Tyler Durden didnt change thecentral  conflict of Fight Club. However the Synths v. Orgnanics is not a twist it is a new conflict and one we have never really been exposed to before in fact the game goes out of its way to prove counter to this point with EDI and the Geth. So if they thought it was a twist then it still shows they dont understand basic writing.

2. They wanted a high minded Philisophical Theme behind everything- So everyone knows that the original Deus Ex was a big influence on Mass Effect and that game was crammed with a lot of philosophical themes. So my belief is Casey and the team also wanted ME to have its own philosophical theme similar to DX that would get people talking and debating and had some ties to the real world. Problem is DX stuck to its core themes throughout the game whereas this new theme in ME comes out of nowehere and abandons its own previous themes the series set up. Its kinda like watching a light hearted comedy and then suddenly at the end it turns into a serious drama that asks you the place of man in the world and whether or not the technoligical advacement of society has led to a diminshed sense of purpose in todays world. Sure it may be a nice philosphical theme and all but it has no place in a comedy that two seconds ago making fart jokes. Thus if they thought ME neeeded its own high minded theme that went counter to everything the game was about it shows they dont even understand their own game.

Like I said I dont know which is worse. Thoughts on how this happened? Also please dont list examples of rouge AI's in the ME universe, that is not foreshadowing the change of the central conflict. That's like saying it would be ok if in ROTJ it turned out that the Sand People were the central villains behind everything because Luke once got into a fight with them.

#2
Grimwick

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It happened because they gave too much artistic license to idiots.

#3
The Angry One

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Why?

Say it with me, kids!

ARTISTIC INTEGRITY!

#4
StElmo

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this is why they will ultimately lose money. people don't like bad writing, this is why TDK raked it in and John Carter didn't

#5
Norskebanan

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They tried to abandon conventional storytelling and plot resolution in an effort to make Mass Effect 3 a hallmark for creative writing. It was a conscious decision on their behalf. They're talented enough writers to follow established parameters for ending a series and were obviously capable of producing a resolution that the fans would have loved. Instead, they made Mass Effect 3 something it was never supposed to be, which resulted in a gross distortion of literary devices. Think of it as trying to fit a square block into a circular tube.

#6
Trentgamer

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It happened because BioWare is owned by EA and they had deadlines. They rushed ME 3 and it shows, and not in just the ending. Greed won over quality, which is pretty much on par for EA. Another reason they won't be getting any more of my money.

#7
Draemora

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Artistic Integrity, duh

#8
Taboo

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I was literally going to make a topic on this later. Thanks OP!

It's so awful it literally BOGGLES my mind. I cannot for the life of me understand who the heck said "Let's ditch proven story telling techniques that have been used for well over a thousand years!"

Who derped at Bioware?

#9
veramis

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Something you notice about what people write is sometimes they write without clearly thinking things through, but they like the emotion it evokes in themselves that they keep it. It may not make sense on a logical level, but it makes sense to them in their gut. The hallmark of a good writer is the ability to be objective, and not choose sentimentality and vagueness over logical order and precise wording. What we got at the ending of ME3 is like a vomit of unconscious ideas, of a wild imagination that has no respect for logic.

#10
Kuari999

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The Angry One wrote...

Why?

Say it with me, kids!

ARTISTIC INTEGRITY!




Seriously though, yeah, that's the excuse they use...  there is no logical argument against the problems with the ending.  I mean, yeah, people can choose to ignore the problems and like the ending for various reasons, but the problems are still there.  So since there is no logical explanation against the problems, it comes down to Ad Hominem and Artistic Integrity...  that's what bugs me most.  If you can't attack the problem, you attack the people and try to discredit them.  This entire situation has been flooded with that.

I accept that people don't mind the concept behind it, but I'm not going to accept basic and very important writing principles being ignored.

#11
SolidisusSnake1

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Trentgamer wrote...

It happened because BioWare is owned by EA and they had deadlines. They rushed ME 3 and it shows, and not in just the ending. Greed won over quality, which is pretty much on par for EA. Another reason they won't be getting any more of my money.


Thats not an excuse, even if ME3 was rushed why would they not then simply fall back on the tried and true cliche formula rather than taking a nonsensical risk to create something "artisitic".

I'm actually suprised an EA Exec actually let them use that ending since it essentially kills off the series which EA would love notihng more to do than milk.

#12
kiyomizu

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Modifié par kiyomizu, 16 avril 2012 - 06:59 .


#13
cerberus1701

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What they don't grasp and never will is that ME never needed even an attempt at a deep, philosphical ending, because ME was NEVER deep or philosophical in the first place. It was always basically a sci-fi action movie.

It certainly didn't need a pooly written 9 year-old version of The Architect from The Matrix.

#14
Taboo

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SolidisusSnake1 wrote...

Trentgamer wrote...

It happened because BioWare is owned by EA and they had deadlines. They rushed ME 3 and it shows, and not in just the ending. Greed won over quality, which is pretty much on par for EA. Another reason they won't be getting any more of my money.


Thats not an excuse, even if ME3 was rushed why would they not then simply fall back on the tried and true cliche formula rather than taking a nonsensical risk to create something "artisitic".

I'm actually suprised an EA Exec actually let them use that ending since it essentially kills off the series which EA would love notihng more to do than milk.


They gave them the resources to do the extended cut because they realized it killed the franchise for the people who are guaranteed sales.

#15
xcomcmdr

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The Angry One wrote...

Why?

Say it with me, kids!

ARTISTIC INTEGRITY!



#16
Flextt

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SolidisusSnake1 wrote...

Its kinda like watching a light hearted comedy and then suddenly at the end it turns into a serious drama that asks you the place of man in the world and whether or not the technoligical advacement of society has led to a diminshed sense of purpose in todays world.


the movie Han**** says hi. btw, why didn't you credit MrBtongue's picture?

#17
Flextt

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Hanc.o.c.k gosh cannot edit due to some bug sry

#18
sth128

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The same reason many projects fail:

It was easier to do than to develop a good, satisfying ending.

#19
Linksys17

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A-R-T-I-S-T-I-C I-N-T-E-G-R-I-T-Y

WHAT DOES THAT SPELL!!!!

BULL****!!!BULL****!!!BULL****!!!BULL****!!!BULL****!!!

GO BULL**** YEAH!!!

#20
mrmarcus101

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Taboo-XX wrote...

SolidisusSnake1 wrote...

Trentgamer wrote...

It happened because BioWare is owned by EA and they had deadlines. They rushed ME 3 and it shows, and not in just the ending. Greed won over quality, which is pretty much on par for EA. Another reason they won't be getting any more of my money.


Thats not an excuse, even if ME3 was rushed why would they not then simply fall back on the tried and true cliche formula rather than taking a nonsensical risk to create something "artisitic".

I'm actually suprised an EA Exec actually let them use that ending since it essentially kills off the series which EA would love notihng more to do than milk.


They gave them the resources to do the extended cut because they realized it killed the franchise for the people who are guaranteed sales.


Bingo.  It's damage control on the business side of the ledger.  The side EA cares most about.

#21
sth88

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Well said, OP

#22
Ytook

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This is one of the many reasons I think the ending is fundamentally broken, it's not a matter of opinion, even if you like the ending conceptually even though it comes out of nowhere and has no relevance to the story, that doesn't stop it being bad at a basic level. Art doesn't have rules but stories must do otherwise they are random happenings with no link or structure and that isn't a story, me3's ending falls apart at the seams, so much of it is contradictory and filled with plot holes and character inconsistencies that the narrative coherency falls apart at the most crucial point.

All they had to do was bring the trilogy in for a steady landing and instead we got this, I hope the DLC fixes it, I don't see how it could other than indoc theory (though that is looking less and less likely), but I hope it does. If not, bye bye Bioware.

#23
Taboo

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mrmarcus101 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

SolidisusSnake1 wrote...

Trentgamer wrote...

It happened because BioWare is owned by EA and they had deadlines. They rushed ME 3 and it shows, and not in just the ending. Greed won over quality, which is pretty much on par for EA. Another reason they won't be getting any more of my money.


Thats not an excuse, even if ME3 was rushed why would they not then simply fall back on the tried and true cliche formula rather than taking a nonsensical risk to create something "artisitic".

I'm actually suprised an EA Exec actually let them use that ending since it essentially kills off the series which EA would love notihng more to do than milk.


They gave them the resources to do the extended cut because they realized it killed the franchise for the people who are guaranteed sales.


Bingo.  It's damage control on the business side of the ledger.  The side EA cares most about.


The worst part is that people like me know exatcly what they're doing. I have however been entirely impressed with Mr Gamble's maturity in all this. ALL of the producers I have worked with before have been....well......not very good people.

#24
R8edR

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Trentgamer - that is the biggest bunch of bs, I've heard. I love how its EA's fault. Everyone has deadlines, it doesn't mean you get to hand in garbage, and then blame it on the deadline.

The writing in this game was horrible. I'll agree with you that it was not just the end, but the way the reapers just some how show up, the idea of the crucible was dumb, and the ending was the cherry on the top.

This isn't EA's fault, but for starters the garbage writters they got, and the project director Casey Hudson who decided to go along with the story that basically kills the previous games plots.

If anything bioware and Hudson should be kissing EA's behind. If it wasn't for EA buying all those perfect scores from reviews, what would bioware and Hudson be able use to defend this garbage they create.

#25
SolidisusSnake1

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Flextt wrote...

Hanc.o.c.k gosh cannot edit due to some bug sry


OMG this YES! A perfect example. Hanc.o.ck. in the first half was a light hearted comedy about a washed up super hero, it was basically like "what if Superman was a douche". Then half way through the movie suddenly shifts and becomes close to some violent horror movie with some weird story about GODS thrown in for no reason. And that didnt even introduce the new conflict at the end of the movie that was half way through and it still failed.

R8edR wrote...
The writing in this game was horrible. I'll
agree with you that it was not just the end, but the way the reapers
just some how show up, the idea of the crucible was dumb, and the ending
was the cherry on the top.


I actually totally disagree with the Crucible and the rest of the game, 99% of the game was well written and adhered to baic plot strucutre. And while the Crucible seemd to come out of nowhere it was a necessary MacGuffin. You see without the Crucible then there would be no point in saving Earth, all the races could be like "Let Earth die so we can better prepare ourselfes", and they would be right to do so. The Curcible gave you a viable reason as to why Earth simply couldldnt be written off and gave you a reason for gathering all of the Galaxy's races together. What went wrong was when the Deus Ex Machinima Catalyst shows up and ruins everything.

Modifié par SolidisusSnake1, 16 avril 2012 - 07:22 .