116 réponses à ce sujet

[Chrislo1990]

Story structure wasn't the only thing these guys messed up on. ME3 suffered from multiple plot holes too. What happened to Rannoch's star? If the catalyst controlled the citadel why didn't it allow the reapers to invade in ME1. What need was there for Sovereign? Those are only a couple I can identify from the top of my head. It's just ridiculous

[Ytook]

The twist ending I was expecting was that the crucible would be a reaper trap leading a civilisation that is sufficiently advanced as to have a chance of defeating the reapers into a killing ground with false hope protecting a false objective, then you would have to win by conventional means and all your assets and choices would culminate in whether you would be victorious, (that would also explain the collectors actions in 2 as the reapers where actually scared and desperate, trying to bolster their forces with humans whose genetic makeup makes them easy to process, while eliminating Shepard as a force for unification against them). I held into that thinking how great the ending was going to be... and then Casper showed up...

Modifié par Ytook, 16 avril 2012 - 08:01 .

[SolidisusSnake1]

Ytook wrote...

The twist ending I was expecting was that the crucible would be a reaper trap leading a civilisation that is sufficiently advanced as to have a chance of defeating the reapers into a killing ground with false hope protecting a false objective, then you would have to win by conventional means and all your assets and choices would culminate in whether you would be victorious, (that would also explain the collectors actions in 2 as the reapers where actually scared and desperate, trying to bolster their forces with humans whose genetic makeup makes them easy to process, while eliminating Shepard as a force for unification against them). I held into that thinking how great the ending was going to be... and then Casper showed up...

Yeah see that would be a twist, Synths v Organics is not.

[beyondsolo]

To honest, I'm not someone who demands a narrative must follow Aristotelean dramatic structure so I can enjoy it, but in this case I just wish they had stuck to the basics...

[sistersafetypin]

I've been trying to understand how they just through all semblance of structure and common sense out the window as well

[nomoredruggs]

Norskebanan wrote...

They tried to abandon conventional storytelling and plot resolution in an effort to make Mass Effect 3 a hallmark for creative writing. It was a conscious decision on their behalf. They're talented enough writers to follow established parameters for ending a series and were obviously capable of producing a resolution that the fans would have loved. Instead, they made Mass Effect 3 something it was never supposed to be, which resulted in a gross distortion of literary devices. Think of it as trying to fit a square block into a circular tube.

[TJX2045]

SolidisusSnake1 wrote...

I mean any person with a basic understanding of story and plot structure knows that you NEVER introduce a new conflict at the very end of a story, especially the end of a trilogy. It violates the very fundamentals of basic plot structure:

Bioware: "Falling Action & Resolution don't matter here."

Disgruntled Fans: "Why don't they?"

Bioware: "Because ART."  

Modifié par TJX2045, 16 avril 2012 - 08:56 .

[Hexley UK]

*Cartman voice* Respect mah Artistic integritaahh!!

Modifié par Hexley UK, 16 avril 2012 - 09:01 .

[SolidisusSnake1]

Hexley UK wrote...

*Cartman voice* Respect mah Artistic integritaahh!!

more like "suck my balls, suck my balls."

[goose2989]

I'll just leave this here...


 

[Johcande XX]

The two individuals responsible for writing it thought they were WAY more ingenious and creative than they actually are. That and their amazingly creative ideas are in no way new, we've seen em all about a dozen times before, better.

Modifié par Johcande XX, 16 avril 2012 - 09:10 .

[Oldbones2]

You think that's bad.


What do you think all those goodbyes were BEFORE you charged the beam.


They were denouement (resolution). And it happened BEFORE the climax cause apparently an epilogue was too much to ask for.


And don't tell me that if they weren't there, then you wouldn't get to say goodbye. I know. But ME 3 has a tragic ending. And in tragic endings you never get to say goodbye.

That's part of what makes them so tragic.


Seriously, who wrote this ending.

How could the same people who gave me the AWESOME cutscene of the fleets I worked over three games to build arriving in Sol, turn around and forget how to end a story.

[Sainta117]

This is easily explained:

ME1 Lead Writer: Drew Karpyshyn

ME2 Lead Writers: Drew Karpyshyn, Mac Walters

ME3 Lead Writer: Mac Walters

Why everyone focuses on Casey Hudson when the problem is clearly terrible writing is beyond me. Yes, I know that the rumor is that both Mr. Hudson and Mr. Walters locked themselves in the chamber of idiocy together to work on it, but this is a writing problem, which makes it Mr. Walters's responsibility. Mr. Hudson is a producer - he handles scheduling, team leadership, and high level development decisions. He may be an accomplice, but it's very clear where the blame for this "art" resides.

[finalcabbage]

Chrislo1990 wrote...

Story structure wasn't the only thing these guys messed up on. ME3 suffered from multiple plot holes too. What happened to Rannoch's star? If the catalyst controlled the citadel why didn't it allow the reapers to invade in ME1. What need was there for Sovereign? Those are only a couple I can identify from the top of my head. It's just ridiculous

I had a thread about the problems the catalyst causes for the first game.  Basically, the only way for it to work is if the star child goes into sleep mode, otherwise it would have noticed a bunch of Prothean scientists mucking about with its systems.  Mental gymnastics are necessary to justify introducing story elements in the last minutes of any plot, especially in a three part series.  One more reason why not to do it in the first place.

[SolidisusSnake1]

Sainta117 wrote...

This is easily explained:

ME1 Lead Writer: Drew Karpyshyn

ME2 Lead Writers: Drew Karpyshyn, Mac Walters

ME3 Lead Writer: Mac Walters

Why everyone focuses on Casey Hudson when the problem is clearly terrible writing is beyond me. Yes, I know that the rumor is that both Mr. Hudson and Mr. Walters locked themselves in the chamber of idiocy together to work on it, but this is a writing problem, which makes it Mr. Walters's responsibility. Mr. Hudson is a producer - he handles scheduling, team leadership, and high level development decisions. He may be an accomplice, but it's very clear where the blame for this "art" resides.

Whats funny is the blatant plagiarism the endings have yet in each case they seem to not understand the themes of what they were ripping off.

The Catalyst is Matrix 2's Architect, a scene pretty much everyone agrees is terrible but at least that scene didnt change the central conflict of the Matrix, where as the Catalyst does.

Deus Ex Choices, yet fail to understand that the themes of DX is different from ME and even the DX endings were vastly different from one another.

BSG ship crash, the Normandy ends up crashed on a primitive planet where its assumed they will start life over and they even go as far to to play the BSG cue before cutting to credits. Yet they seemed to have forgot that they broke the cycle in BSG by PEACEFULLY COEXISITNG with Synthetics, not by wiping them all out.

Don't tell me its art when all you did was rip off your favorite Sci-Fi movies and games.

Modifié par SolidisusSnake1, 16 avril 2012 - 10:08 .

[ShepardTheHopeful]

They were going to write a better ending but then they took an EA to the knee.

[kalasaurus]

Nice analysis OP. I'm usually capable of following a story, but the ending just took such a turn in theme and tone. I had no idea what I just played- I wasn't in Mass Effect anymore, but felt like I just started a different game. It seemed as though the writers wanted a twist that confused everyone on purpose by keeping it "high level" with Starchild's vague ramblings that we can't even question.

And then they give no closure at all to the galaxy or squadmates. The Normandy crash landing is not a salvageable part of the ending as far as I'm concerned. The resolution after the game's climax? Everything blows up your friends fade in obscurity.

[Diegofsv]

Great post OP. I was thinking about a twist at the end that the crucible would be a trap made throught out the years by indocrinated high ranked personel over the cycles...I mean, the crucible was the citadel (cleary made by the reapers)....damn I whished I was right.

[R8edR]

SolidisusSnake1 wrote...

[

R8edR wrote...
The writing in this game was horrible. I'll
agree with you that it was not just the end, but the way the reapers
just some how show up, the idea of the crucible was dumb, and the ending
was the cherry on the top.

I actually totally disagree with the Crucible and the rest of the game, 99% of the game was well written and adhered to baic plot strucutre. And while the Crucible seemd to come out of nowhere it was a necessary MacGuffin. You see without the Crucible then there would be no point in saving Earth, all the races could be like "Let Earth die so we can better prepare ourselfes", and they would be right to do so. The Curcible gave you a viable reason as to why Earth simply couldldnt be written off and gave you a reason for gathering all of the Galaxy's races together. What went wrong was when the Deus Ex Machinima Catalyst shows up and ruins everything.

I'm sorry but the writting is garbage.  The crucible wasn't necessary.  It fact it wasn't necessary for the final battle to be on Earth.  The reality is the final battle could have been anywhere, destroying the reapers saves every planet, it doesn't matter where that final battle takes place.  Personally I would have liked it to have actually taken place on an actual reaper, probably Harbinger.

As a stand alone game, the writing isn't too bad.  The problem is, this isn't a stand alone title, its the end of a trilogy.  In that regard, the writing is terrible from the very beginning.  The fact that the reapers just show up is garbage to begin with.  What was the purpose of the previous games, especially the first, if they could just show up after 3 years?  What was the point of arrival, if they could make it after a couple of months?  What was really the point of them building a human reaper in the 2nd game?  According to the first game, they are stuck in dark space, and need the Citadel to get here, I would have thought that they were building the human reaper to try another run at the citadel.  But really what was the point if they could just fly here in 3 short years.  For a race of machines that wait 50,000 years to attack, and apparently are willing to fight hundred year wars, and will not leave until they believe they have eliminated everyone, they sure do come out looking lazy in not wanting to make that 3 year trip.

Then you have the decisions that you make, that have no effect at all.  I mean the last decisions you make in either game, didn't matter all.  In game 1, who goes on the council, and in the 2nd if you destroy the collectors base or not, were either ignored or had no outcome at all in the game.  How can the very last decision you make in the previous games, have no out come on the current game. 

The crucible to me was just dumb, and the way it was explained was even worse.  It wasn't just a prothean device, but a device that was made by many civilizations.  Really?  So all these civilizations add pieces to this thing without knowing what it was or what it would do?  That makes a lot of sense.  I gues bioware would call it "artistic integrity".

Then you have the ending that is a complete disaster.  Forget that you lose the citadel without a fight, or that it was mentioned that after the reapers get control of the citadel that it would be impossible to use the relays.  Lets forget about all that, and get to the star child, and the decisions that all end the same way.  Lets not forget joker, the normandy and my crew apparently flying away during the most important battle.

These aren't even all the problems, but just the major ones for me.  I can write a 20 page essay on what was wrong with this game.  The writing in this game isn't just bad, if I was bioware I would be embarrased that this is actually the final draft that I could come up with.

[LucasShark]

I said this the first day I saw that ending cutscene: Why did they do the thing every single creative writing teacher will tell you to NEVER BLOODY DO!?

[spartan5127]

Yea seriously. This was a mistake I would expect from an amateur. Not a professional writer.

[R8edR]

Grimwick wrote...

It happened because they gave too much artistic license to idiots.

That's one of the best lines I've read on these forums

[SolidisusSnake1]

R8edR wrote...

SolidisusSnake1 wrote...

[

R8edR wrote...
The writing in this game was horrible. I'll
agree with you that it was not just the end, but the way the reapers
just some how show up, the idea of the crucible was dumb, and the ending
was the cherry on the top.

I actually totally disagree with the Crucible and the rest of the game, 99% of the game was well written and adhered to baic plot strucutre. And while the Crucible seemd to come out of nowhere it was a necessary MacGuffin. You see without the Crucible then there would be no point in saving Earth, all the races could be like "Let Earth die so we can better prepare ourselfes", and they would be right to do so. The Curcible gave you a viable reason as to why Earth simply couldldnt be written off and gave you a reason for gathering all of the Galaxy's races together. What went wrong was when the Deus Ex Machinima Catalyst shows up and ruins everything.

I'm sorry but the writting is garbage.  The crucible wasn't necessary.  It fact it wasn't necessary for the final battle to be on Earth.  The reality is the final battle could have been anywhere, destroying the reapers saves every planet, it doesn't matter where that final battle takes place.  Personally I would have liked it to have actually taken place on an actual reaper, probably Harbinger.

As a stand alone game, the writing isn't too bad.  The problem is, this isn't a stand alone title, its the end of a trilogy.  In that regard, the writing is terrible from the very beginning.  The fact that the reapers just show up is garbage to begin with.  What was the purpose of the previous games, especially the first, if they could just show up after 3 years?  What was the point of arrival, if they could make it after a couple of months?  What was really the point of them building a human reaper in the 2nd game?  According to the first game, they are stuck in dark space, and need the Citadel to get here, I would have thought that they were building the human reaper to try another run at the citadel.  But really what was the point if they could just fly here in 3 short years.  For a race of machines that wait 50,000 years to attack, and apparently are willing to fight hundred year wars, and will not leave until they believe they have eliminated everyone, they sure do come out looking lazy in not wanting to make that 3 year trip.

Then you have the decisions that you make, that have no effect at all.  I mean the last decisions you make in either game, didn't matter all.  In game 1, who goes on the council, and in the 2nd if you destroy the collectors base or not, were either ignored or had no outcome at all in the game.  How can the very last decision you make in the previous games, have no out come on the current game. 

The crucible to me was just dumb, and the way it was explained was even worse.  It wasn't just a prothean device, but a device that was made by many civilizations.  Really?  So all these civilizations add pieces to this thing without knowing what it was or what it would do?  That makes a lot of sense.  I gues bioware would call it "artistic integrity".

Then you have the ending that is a complete disaster.  Forget that you lose the citadel without a fight, or that it was mentioned that after the reapers get control of the citadel that it would be impossible to use the relays.  Lets forget about all that, and get to the star child, and the decisions that all end the same way.  Lets not forget joker, the normandy and my crew apparently flying away during the most important battle.

These aren't even all the problems, but just the major ones for me.  I can write a 20 page essay on what was wrong with this game.  The writing in this game isn't just bad, if I was bioware I would be embarrased that this is actually the final draft that I could come up with.

-The battle is on Earth because we are from Earth and are thus supposed to have an emotional attachment to it. Is it cheap yes, does it work yes and no. It would have worked had we got to spend more time on Earth and develop some sort of attachment to it besides "I'm from Earth". But again Shepard is human and he wouldnt be as motivated to save Thessia if Earth was fine. And the battle could be inside a Reaper cuz "Indoctrination".

-Like I said the Crucible was a MacGuffin that gave you an excuse as to why Earth couldnt simply be written off and why you needed to gather allies.

-The Reapers arent "trapped in Dark Space", the reason for ME1 and the Citadel is that they have always followed a set pattern when it comes to harvesting. The Citadel is a trap, by opening the Citadel relay they instaneuosly appear at the very heart of the Galaxy and destroy the very seat of Galactic government making the other planets easy prey. Also through control of the Citadel they could shut off the Mass Relays cutting each system off from one another. ME1 changed this plan and so they had to start the cycle the hard way through a straightfoward invasion moving through Batarian space and eventually reaching Alliance and Council space. The ending of ME2 showed them waking up and starting to head toward the Milky Way.

-The rest of the complaints is like I said all of the endings fault. The fact that your choices dont matter falls upon the failure of the ending. We should have seen are Assets in action playing some pivotal role in the battle, saving the Council should have had an impact on fleet numbers as well as teh Rachni and countless otehr choices. But the ending failed to deliver any of this. However the rest of the game was still well written its just that the ending failed to make anything matter.