51 réponses à ce sujet

[originalSabZero]

So we are told how the darkspawn was created by the Chant. I will not repeat that story here, watch the intro of the game .

Let's look at the facts, as they were.

The tevinter imperium spanned most of the known world, and was big on blood magic. They also worshiped dragons, that then existed in greater number.

Leaving out the fade for now, it's too hard to fact check what is the black city anyway, the floaty bits?).

What if the magisters started experimenting with blood magic on dragons, trying to be like their own gods? Maybe they tried to transfer their spirits into a dragon, and that created the first archdemon and taint.

They could have also created Broodmothers, trying to build mindless armies (what empire doesn't want that).

Them being mages could then have some influence over the fade in the process I suppose.

Everyone is welcome to discuss and add ideas

[Behindyounow]

I have a theory that the black city is only there, because you're told it should be there.



The spirit that gives you a weapon during the harrowing says something along the lines of "If you believe it to be there, it will be there." Not the exact wording, but still.

[originalSabZero]

Behindyounow: Hm, yes good point about the Fade. However, if you have no concept about it when you enter the first time, why does everyone see the same landscape of weird outdoorsiness and statues. It does not seem to be discussed that openly.

[Foxd1e]

Brood Mother's were a product of darkspawn evolution and life-cycle. They were essentially created when females were captured by the darkspawn. All the darkspawn we see and kill in the game (Minus one female) now you figure women are probably captured and turned the same rate as men so just picture that many Brood Mothers lurking down in the darkness *shivers* Scary thought indeed

[Foxd1e]

Quick facts about the Black City:



-Demons and Spirits alike stay away from it.

-It is said to always be visible in the distance from anywhere in the Fade, since the Fade is a supernatural realm this is possible as nothing in the Fade has to conform to any normal rules that Mass and Distance follows.

[kevinwastaken]

Darkspawn are like cockroaches. They just appear naturally when people are nasty.

[felix4200]

Well i believe more in the original story. Why would people try to transfer their spirits into dragon (which will obviously kill them). Also this only explains the existence of the archdemon, not all the other darkspawn.



The Archdemon is supposed to be a lot tougher than high dragons, right? So it cannot be just a dragon made evil by some strange spell, it has to be something more. Also noone would use the spell so many times (there are at least a handful of archdemons).

Lastly how would they seal the archdemons so far beneath the earth?

[The Capital Gaultier]

Foxd1e wrote...

Brood Mother's were a product of darkspawn evolution and life-cycle. They were essentially created when females were captured by the darkspawn. All the darkspawn we see and kill in the game (Minus one female) now you figure women are probably captured and turned the same rate as men so just picture that many Brood Mothers lurking down in the darkness *shivers* Scary thought indeed

Most die according to the information in-game.  Only a few become broodmothers.

[PappaCube]

According to the lore, I might have misunderstood it though, the old gods (dragons, let's call them elite dragons since they are higher than high dragons) taught the Tevinter magisters blood magic to tempt them into corrupting the golden city. So, from what I gather, the maker and the old gods have been duking it out for some time already. With the last knock down in favor of the maker (whatever he may really be). The blight is the maker's "stinging swarm" spell against the old gods and the Tevinter magisters.



Why it is focused only on poor Fereldon right now I can't figure out yet since the heart of the Tevinter emperium is quite a bit north of Fereldon.

[sparkyclarky24]

i dont get it when people say the black city only exists because your told it exists... isnt everything related to faith about that? it either exists or it doesnt.. .1 or 0.

[PappaCube]

The creatures of the fade read your mind and re-create what they find there (they have no creativity of their own according to lore). That's why folks are offering up that the black city may only exist because you believe it does. Makes my head hurt to go further so, no, it's a 1 dammit!

[sparkyclarky24]

Ahhh i see haha, that makes sense now.

[Eonassassin]

I don't think what the chantry tells us is accurate information. Every piece of information we get is biasd to a certain degree. Morrigan thinks that the spirit of the old Gods are worth preserving and Leliana really believes that the Maker has everyones best interests in mind. Chantry says magic is bad, tevinter says magic is good.

But so far we have only traveled through Ferelden where the Chantry influence is very heavy.

[corebit]

I am surprised that there seems to be only one version on story of the darkspawn unlike all other legends. It's like everyone reads and repeats from the same pamphlet. No one seems to question the veracity of that story.



The darkspawn origin story sounds like your typical Bible story, relying too much on the reader's faith and offering no explanations. If the maker is so almighty powerful, why couldn't he just cleanse the Black City back into the Golden City? It's his home right? Where does the maker live if his home is tainted? If the city resides inside the Fade, why haven't any mages found it other than the original cast out Tevinter guys?

[The Angry One]

My theory is that the Black City is Arlathan, that existed jointly in the Fade and reality, as did the elves, hence their immortality. Remember the 3rd skill for Arcane Warriors? Or was it the 4th.. the one where part of your body exists in the Fade to mitigate damage. Same concept, only more advanced.

Tevinter no doubt sacked (the real) Arlathan as the history says, though perhaps the elves weren't as innocent as is claimed. Perhaps Tevinter was under Arlathan's rule until they rebelled at the behest of the Old Gods, who taught humans magic in order to free them, in exchange for their worship.
Perhaps some elves retreated fully into the Fade, and as a final **** you to Tevinter and the Old Gods, they turned the Fade Arlathan into the Black City and created the Darkspawn, tainting Dumat and turning it into the first Archdemon as the ultimate act of spite.

Modifié par The Angry One, 06 décembre 2009 - 02:14 .

[Eonassassin]

The Angry One wrote...

My theory is that the Black City is Arlathan, that existed jointly in the Fade and reality, as did the elves, hence their immortality. Remember the 3rd skill for Arcane Warriors? Or was it the 4th.. the one where part of your body exists in the Fade to mitigate damage. Same concept, only more advanced.

Tevinter no doubt sacked Arlathan as the history says, though perhaps the elves weren't as innocent as is claimed. Perhaps Tevinter was under Arlathan's rule until they rebelled at the behest of the Old Gods, who taught humans magic in order to free them, in exchange for their worship.
Perhaps some elves retreated fully into the Fade, and as a final **** you to Tevinter and the Old Gods, they turned the Fade Arlathan into the Black City and created the Darkspawn, tainting Dumat and turning it into the first Archdemon as the ultimate act of spite.

The part about Arlathan makes sense, its physical part is destroyed and the part that existed in the fade is the "black" city now. But how does the Maker come into this?

[KnightofPhoenix]

The Angry One wrote...

My theory is that the Black City is Arlathan, that existed jointly in the Fade and reality, as did the elves, hence their immortality. Remember the 3rd skill for Arcane Warriors? Or was it the 4th.. the one where part of your body exists in the Fade to mitigate damage. Same concept, only more advanced.

Tevinter no doubt sacked (the real) Arlathan as the history says, though perhaps the elves weren't as innocent as is claimed. Perhaps Tevinter was under Arlathan's rule until they rebelled at the behest of the Old Gods, who taught humans magic in order to free them, in exchange for their worship.
Perhaps some elves retreated fully into the Fade, and as a final **** you to Tevinter and the Old Gods, they turned the Fade Arlathan into the Black City and created the Darkspawn, tainting Dumat and turning it into the first Archdemon as the ultimate act of spite.

I like this theory. It would certaintly end the idea that elves are so innocent and miserable.

[The Angry One]

The Maker is entirely made up, I'd say. A convenient figure to both explain the darkspawn (we defiled His city!) and give hope (if we pray really really hard He will return and save us!).



Actions attributed to the Maker (in my theory) would've been done by the elves, or the Old Gods (who aren't really gods either).

For example, the Old Gods being cast down into slumber was perhaps done by the elves to keep them from avenging Dumat, or perhaps the Old Gods or Tevinter did it to stop them all from being tainted (7 Archdemons at one time? Not fun).

[originalSabZero]

The Angry One: Very interesting indeed. I could see that happening.
Eonassassin: I would assume the Maker to be "made up", not a real entity. It's not Tolkiens universe, where you could sail west to the something lands (my memory fails me).

Modifié par originalSabZero, 06 décembre 2009 - 02:24 .

[Original182]

If it's possible for Old Gods to exist, then it is possible for the Maker to exist.

[Raxtoren]

corebit wrote...

I am surprised that there seems to be only one version on story of the darkspawn unlike all other legends. It's like everyone reads and repeats from the same pamphlet. No one seems to question the veracity of that story.

The darkspawn origin story sounds like your typical Bible story, relying too much on the reader's faith and offering no explanations. If the maker is so almighty powerful, why couldn't he just cleanse the Black City back into the Golden City? It's his home right? Where does the maker live if his home is tainted? If the city resides inside the Fade, why haven't any mages found it other than the original cast out Tevinter guys?

I wouldnt compare anything in DAO with a typical "bible story" because, in their worldstuff like  magic,miracles and even spirits and demons occours frequently. And, how did each race gets created, see any monkeys in the wild?
Infact, not believing in a higher power would make no sense, oh the world just created itself and then there is magic, spirits and demons. I mean come on? Mayby demons & spirits come from another dimension in the game, mayby thats what the fade really is, IDK but still.

Modifié par Raxtoren, 06 décembre 2009 - 02:34 .

[The Angry One]

Original182 wrote...

If it's possible for Old Gods to exist, then it is possible for the Maker to exist.

Except we've never seen the Maker, there's no proof of the existance of this nebulous deity and no tangible action of "His" that we can see.
We know however that Old Gods do exist, they exist even today. They're just not "gods", just powerful dragons.

[Original182]

The Angry One wrote...
Except we've never seen the Maker, there's no proof of the existance of this nebulous deity and no tangible action of "His" that we can see.

*cough* Andraste Ashes *cough*
Tangible enough for me.

We know however that Old Gods do exist, they exist even today. They're just not "gods", just powerful dragons.

Open to speculation. If dragons are just dragons, Morrigan wouldn't even bother to trap the soul of a dragon. The High Dragon worshipped by the Andraste cult could be just an ordinary dragon, but the archdemon could be a dragon + soul of old god.

[corebit]

Raxtoren wrote...

corebit wrote...

I am surprised that there seems to be only one version on story of the darkspawn unlike all other legends. It's like everyone reads and repeats from the same pamphlet. No one seems to question the veracity of that story.

The darkspawn origin story sounds like your typical Bible story, relying too much on the reader's faith and offering no explanations. If the maker is so almighty powerful, why couldn't he just cleanse the Black City back into the Golden City? It's his home right? Where does the maker live if his home is tainted? If the city resides inside the Fade, why haven't any mages found it other than the original cast out Tevinter guys?

I wouldnt compare anything in DAO with a typical "bible story" because, in their worldstuff like  magic,miracles and even spirits and demons occours frequently. And, how did each race gets created, see any monkeys in the wild?
Infact, not believing in a higher power would make no sense, oh the world just created itself and then there is magic, spirits and demons. I mean come on? Mayby demons & spirits come from another dimension in the game, mayby thats what the fade really is, IDK but still.

I made the comparison because both work like parables, they are simply there to "teach you a moral lesson" like the one of the hare and the turtle. The story itself is unimportant. That's why it is short, vague, and offers no answers to the how's and why's. And people repeat it mindlessly.

[Behindyounow]

We know however that Old Gods do exist, they exist even today. They're just not "gods", just powerful dragons.

Then how comes the Archdemon is male, and only female dragons have wings?