24 réponses à ce sujet

[dantares83]

That SOB Sebastian promised to bring me down with his ALMIGHTY army (he seems to forgetten that I was the one who helped him in the first place) just because I choose to save my Anders (whom is my LI btw)...

I am waiting for the moment to kill him even since then and now, I heard that is no more content for DA 2!

Please insert this 'side quest' in DA3 because I MUST KILL that SOB!

Modifié par dantares83, 16 avril 2012 - 09:53 .

[berelinde]

I don't quite share your passionate dislike for the character, but I definitely agree that it has potential as a DA3 quest.

We've had former adversaries become allies (Sarevok), but as far as I know, we've never had a former ally become and adversary before. It would be interesting.

Of course, that might prove problematical for the significant portion of the fan base who killed Anders at Sebastian's behest. Why would Sebastian turn his armies on innocent cities when his demands were satisfied? I'm not being sarcastic, here. I can think of a few reasons why he'd do it, but they're pretty unflattering and not even remotely the stuff legends are made of.

Personally, I consider Sebastian's threat an empty one. He couldn't even get anyone to help him exact revenge on the murderers of his parents, the rightful rulers of Starkhaven, until the PC stepped up to the plate. I'm pretty sure he doesn't have what it takes to launch a major invasion.

That said, Starkhaven is really set up to be a villainous city-state. Whenever you hear about something horrible or out of control, the suffix of the person or group responsible does seem to be "of Starkhaven".

Edit: I've been at work too long. My sentences don't have all their parts anymore.

Modifié par berelinde, 17 avril 2012 - 01:03 .

[Huntress]

Tell me why a new character that has nothing to do with what happened in kirkwall and probably doens't know sebastian/Anders or hawke would want to kill Sebastian?? Doesn't make any sense to me, I dought any of My wardens would want to kill Sebastian for wanting to kill Anders or destroy Kirkwall.. pff thats the chantry/templar/Kirkwall and Anders problems. Is too bad that hawke wasn't able to kill that rat but.. ***happens.

[dantares83]

that is why this DLC should happen!

[LolaLei]

MAKER NOOOOOOOOO!

[Leon481]

berelinde wrote...

I don't quite share your passionate dislike for the character, but I definitely agree that it has potential as a DA3 quest.

We've had former adversaries become allies (Sarevok), but as far as I know, we've never had a former ally become and adversary before. It would be interesting.

It would be really interesting if Sebastian became an out of control religious zealot who put the full force of his power behind exterminating mages. If you killed Anders and played the Templar ending, Sebastian started to show signs of becoming an out or control religious zealot by saying how much he thinks the mages were getting what they deserved.

The best thing about this is it works whether he gains control of Starkhaven or not. Either he becomes a zealot king sending his armies after mages, or he becomes a high figure in the chantry who leads them against the mages. It works either way.

Of course, becoming an extremest zealot is the predictable outcome for his type of character, but at the same time, it could work really, really well. The zealot king role would work especially well to justify the inner struggle he went through in DA2 and would add a whole lot to the plot.

Of course, that might prove problematical for the significant portion of the fan base who killed Anders at Sebastian's behest. Why would Sebastian turn his armies on innocent cities when his demands were satisfied? I'm not being sarcastic, here. I can think of a few reasons why he'd do it, but they're pretty unflattering and not even remotely the stuff legends are made of.

I can't see how killing Anders really changes anything. At least it doesn't have to change anything. Either way, he lost Elthina and has to move on somehow.

Modifié par Leon481, 18 avril 2012 - 07:18 .

[HiroVoid]

There's a lot of people who've played that don't even know who Sebastian is for not paying for him. Also, it's more likely this was an empty threat for Sebastian being upset at the time.

[Augustei]

I hope Sebastian and his Starkhaven army crush your Hawke and his forces completely.. I hope he crushes all of Kirkwall's armed forces and begins the conquest of The Free Marches under Starkhaven's rule... I hope that is is followed by a full scale war between the new nation of Starkhaven and Nevarra =D

[Urzon]

That always made me laugh when he said that. After saying it outloud in front of Hawke and company, was he really expecting them to just stick around Kirkwall, and just wait for him to gather an army to kill them?

Modifié par Urzon, 18 avril 2012 - 09:09 .

[AnImpossibleGirl]

What for those who enjoyed killing Anders? (Twice, bleh)

He simply can not live with that forehead and Justice...whom I killed in Awakening as well. Plus, Seb made a threat...Anders killed innocents.

[Urzon]

Poshible wrote...

What for those who enjoyed killing Anders? (Twice, bleh)

He simply can not live with that forehead and Justice...whom I killed in Awakening as well. Plus, Seb made a threat...Anders killed innocents.

I'm guessing the expansion was suppose to be about his army marching on Kirkwall, and the surrounding areas i'd imagine. So if you Anders alive, he would be marching the army to get revenge against him and Hawke. If you did kill him on the other hand, he was marching the armies to kill the blood mages in the Kirkwall area. As well as, the Mage Underground that was partly responcible for Elthina death. Since Anders was a member of the group, I can see him putting blame on them as well.

[AnImpossibleGirl]

Urzon wrote...

Poshible wrote...

What for those who enjoyed killing Anders? (Twice, bleh)

He simply can not live with that forehead and Justice...whom I killed in Awakening as well. Plus, Seb made a threat...Anders killed innocents.

I'm guessing the expansion was suppose to be about his army marching on Kirkwall, and the surrounding areas i'd imagine. So if you Anders alive, he would be marching the army to get revenge against him and Hawke. If you did kill him on the other hand, he was marching the armies to kill the blood mages in the Kirkwall area. As well as, the Mage Underground that was partly responcible for Elthina death. Since Anders was a member of the group, I can see him putting blame on them as well.

Exalted Marches? Maybe, but that is by act of The Chantry...not an Exiled Prince. If Anders dies and Seb is loyal...Hawke and Seb have an alliance on both friendship/rivalry paths. If Hawke sides with Templars then Hawke becomes Viscount of Kirkwall. They take Starkhaven back together and have great political ground within the Free Marches.

That is why this will not be done...

[smallwhippet]

If DA3 is going to be as geographically extensive as has been intimated, it would make sense for Starkhaven to be included in some way. After all, the Starkhaven mages had a small but significant role in DA2 and, even though many players won't have bought the Exiled Prince DLC, there's always the trusty codex to fill in the back story.....
For my own part, I would like to see some sort of conclusion to that particular story thread, although it wouldn't be the first time a DA2 threat proved entirely empty: cf Magistrate's Orders......

[esper]

Poshible wrote...

Urzon wrote...

Poshible wrote...

What for those who enjoyed killing Anders? (Twice, bleh)

He simply can not live with that forehead and Justice...whom I killed in Awakening as well. Plus, Seb made a threat...Anders killed innocents.

I'm guessing the expansion was suppose to be about his army marching on Kirkwall, and the surrounding areas i'd imagine. So if you Anders alive, he would be marching the army to get revenge against him and Hawke. If you did kill him on the other hand, he was marching the armies to kill the blood mages in the Kirkwall area. As well as, the Mage Underground that was partly responcible for Elthina death. Since Anders was a member of the group, I can see him putting blame on them as well.

Exalted Marches? Maybe, but that is by act of The Chantry...not an Exiled Prince. If Anders dies and Seb is loyal...Hawke and Seb have an alliance on both friendship/rivalry paths. If Hawke sides with Templars then Hawke becomes Viscount of Kirkwall. They take Starkhaven back together and have great political ground within the Free Marches.

That is why this will not be done...

 
Actually you don't know that. It had taken Sebastian 7 years and he had not really come closer, and Kirkwall don't have a real army. (I doubt that Aveline is willing to launch her guards to Sebastian's aid). The only thing that Hawke can give Sebastian is money and I think that he already got that.
Sebastian is also not pro-mage freedom from the circle no matter your Hawke. He just, if you kill Anders, acknowlegde that Meridith is off her rocker and that Kirkwall circle did not need to die for Anders' act. Even then he says that he has trouble not seeing Anders in the mages. If you side with the templars he is going to the extreme side.

Also Hawke is Vicount for under 3 years and there is a good reason (from the way that Cassandra speak) to think that the Chantry first blamed Hawke forthe whole damn thing and it was first when they thought of talking with Varric they realized that Hawke might not have been to blame at ll. Sebastian is pro-chantry it is the only thing he is sure off.

After da2 the only thing Sebastian ends up with is his faith, his motherfigure is gone, Hawke is gone eventually, and I doubt they can take Starkhaven back in 3 years with no army (Kirkwall only have templars and guards, neither is take another city who is mostly Andrastian, kind og army), so Starkhaven is lost too. He has every ingredient to be an interesting, well written and well intentionel, extremist. He would be a good adversary. And I find it a shame if they just drop him in half-LI land.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Leon481 wrote...
Of course, becoming an extremest zealot is the predictable outcome for his type of character, but at the same time, it could work really, really well.

TI is?... How?

[AnImpossibleGirl]

esper wrote...

Poshible wrote...

Urzon wrote...

Poshible wrote...

What for those who enjoyed killing Anders? (Twice, bleh)

He simply can not live with that forehead and Justice...whom I killed in Awakening as well. Plus, Seb made a threat...Anders killed innocents.

I'm guessing the expansion was suppose to be about his army marching on Kirkwall, and the surrounding areas i'd imagine. So if you Anders alive, he would be marching the army to get revenge against him and Hawke. If you did kill him on the other hand, he was marching the armies to kill the blood mages in the Kirkwall area. As well as, the Mage Underground that was partly responcible for Elthina death. Since Anders was a member of the group, I can see him putting blame on them as well.

Exalted Marches? Maybe, but that is by act of The Chantry...not an Exiled Prince. If Anders dies and Seb is loyal...Hawke and Seb have an alliance on both friendship/rivalry paths. If Hawke sides with Templars then Hawke becomes Viscount of Kirkwall. They take Starkhaven back together and have great political ground within the Free Marches.

That is why this will not be done...

 
Actually you don't know that. It had taken Sebastian 7 years and he had not really come closer, and Kirkwall don't have a real army. (I doubt that Aveline is willing to launch her guards to Sebastian's aid). The only thing that Hawke can give Sebastian is money and I think that he already got that.
Sebastian is also not pro-mage freedom from the circle no matter your Hawke. He just, if you kill Anders, acknowlegde that Meridith is off her rocker and that Kirkwall circle did not need to die for Anders' act. Even then he says that he has trouble not seeing Anders in the mages. If you side with the templars he is going to the extreme side.

Also Hawke is Vicount for under 3 years and there is a good reason (from the way that Cassandra speak) to think that the Chantry first blamed Hawke forthe whole damn thing and it was first when they thought of talking with Varric they realized that Hawke might not have been to blame at ll. Sebastian is pro-chantry it is the only thing he is sure off.

After da2 the only thing Sebastian ends up with is his faith, his motherfigure is gone, Hawke is gone eventually, and I doubt they can take Starkhaven back in 3 years with no army (Kirkwall only have templars and guards, neither is take another city who is mostly Andrastian, kind og army), so Starkhaven is lost too. He has every ingredient to be an interesting, well written and well intentionel, extremist. He would be a good adversary. And I find it a shame if they just drop him in half-LI land.

Okay, I have read Sebastian's short story, there is reasons behind him not going straight toward Starkhaven. Who is to say in that 3 year gap Starkahven wasn't taken back? I know my Hawke would aid Sebastian in that. Also, I did side with the Templars, that game gave me no reason to side with the mages...the majority of them were nuts and Grace was my final straw with those nut cases. Not all Hawke's fed the blood mages. 
Ethina helped Seb to become what he was...if my family was murdered and then the closest person to me was blown up by a mage, I would blame them all as well. Also, who says Hawke dissapeared alone? We do not know that. We may never know that.

This entire conversation is all up to interpretation and speculation at this point. I played diffrently than most and I liked Sebastian and the only mage I felt like not killing was Bethany.

[Leon481]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Leon481 wrote...
Of course, becoming an extremest zealot is the predictable outcome for his type of character, but at the same time, it could work really, really well.

TI is?... How?

Essentially it's just an overused idea. In most fantasy stories I've come across, being religious is used more as a plot device rather than just being a part of the make up of the character. Chances are if a character is religious in a fantasy setting it is for one of four reasons:

1. To make the character basically a saint, because of course you can't be near perfect without a religion to back you.
2. To cast religion as the villian by making a character a religious zealot or making them develop into a religious zealot or making an obstacle for the story by using zealotry as a way to give a reason for an important, otherwise intelligent character to be illogically unreasonable.
3. Portraying their religious belief as an obstacle they need to overcome. This is usually done in the form of overcoming religious based predjudice or dealing with the fact that their religion is evil/a proven lie.
4. Culture shock.

Other forms of religious characters are fairly rare. Characters like Leliana or Sebastian who are religious and still reasonable without their religious beliefs being used solely to move along the plot were different and a real breath of fresh air.

Despite the overused nature of zealotry as a plot device, I think it could work for Sebastian as we've already small inklings of that side of his character between his rational moments. He clearly struggles with violence and revenge and seems to default to Chantry teachings when he is unsure of his personal beliefs. Even if you kill Anders, he can show the beginning signs of crazed zealotry if you take the Templar side, so if revenge against Hawke becomes revenge on mages for Elthina's death disguised as following his religion it still works. It's that slow descent into madness that makes it interesting as it's not simply a plot device, but almost a full psychological narritive.

Modifié par Leon481, 19 avril 2012 - 02:42 .

[edwardlm3]

I'm a big defender of Dragon Age 2 but even I have to admit Sebastian, Fenris, and Anders were lame. They don't grow on you like some of the Origins characters. Sebastian just never did it. Would it have been so wrong to be a prince? He could have honored the Chantry and still ran Starkhaven, instead he only get's motivated if you don't off Anders. Varric has a crossbow...There is no reason even to play with Sebastian. I did like the character of the Grand Cleric. Same there was no Morrigan...Would have created some great party banter.

[Ryenke]

Please no. I hope Bioware just forgets Sebastian ever existed.

[Demx]

Why on Earth would your new character and Sebastian have issues with each other?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Leon481 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Leon481 wrote...
Of course, becoming an extremest zealot is the predictable outcome for his type of character, but at the same time, it could work really, really well.

TI is?... How?

Essentially it's just an overused idea. In most fantasy stories I've come across, being religious is used more as a plot device rather than just being a part of the make up of the character. Chances are if a character is religious in a fantasy setting it is for one of four reasons:

1. To make the character basically a saint, because of course you can't be near perfect without a religion to back you.
2. To cast religion as the villian by making a character a religious zealot or making them develop into a religious zealot or making an obstacle for the story by using zealotry as a way to give a reason for an important, otherwise intelligent character to be illogically unreasonable.
3. Portraying their religious belief as an obstacle they need to overcome. This is usually done in the form of overcoming religious based predjudice or dealing with the fact that their religion is evil/a proven lie.
4. Culture shock.

Other forms of religious characters are fairly rare. Characters like Leliana or Sebastian who are religious and still reasonable without their religious beliefs being used solely to move along the plot were different and a real breath of fresh air.

Despite the overused nature of zealotry as a plot device, I think it could work for Sebastian as we've already small inklings of that side of his character between his rational moments. He clearly struggles with violence and revenge and seems to default to Chantry teachings when he is unsure of his personal beliefs. Even if you kill Anders, he can show the beginning signs of crazed zealotry if you take the Templar side, so if revenge against Hawke becomes revenge on mages for Elthina's death disguised as following his religion it still works. It's that slow descent into madness that makes it interesting as it's not simply a plot device, but almost a full psychological narritive.

You said it yourself - it is overused.
I don't see why Sebastain would turn all psycho...just because he shown temeper. Yeah, his mother-figure was just killed; people generally don't tend to take that well, religious or not. And moments of weakness/anger and lapses of jusgment are common for humans.

I'm frankly sick of all the zealot bad guys.

[Huntress]

Sebastian is one of the character that many didn't like:
http://www.mmo-champ...in-Dragon-Age-2

http://forum.rpg.net...e-NPC-companion

http://honestlies.de...m/journal/poll/

http://dragonage.wik...urite_Companion

http://www.shsforums...ns/page__st__20

Most annoying companion:
http://rooster82.dev...l/poll/2017029/

So as you can see people not liking Sebastian is more common that the ones who likes him and think he is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

He is not loyal, he is not trustworthy heck! he is not even an interesting character as Fenris is. Do I want him dead? YES.

What sebastian is: Volatile, insecure, close-minded and a chantry zealot. The moment you disagree with him he will put the murder knife in you're guts.

Modifié par Huntress, 19 avril 2012 - 04:17 .

[sylvanaerie]

Frankly, Chantry boy was a DLC and a for most part boring addtion to the game (that frankly I was glad I didn't have to pay for). A lot of potential went into him, but didn't find a good interpretation, I just felt he had no qualities/flaws that made him remarkable one way or the other. Best thing I liked about him was his voice actor, but otherwise, I found his personality a bit bland. I don't need to see a "Sebastian marches his (nonexistant) army on Kirkwall" DLC. I won't buy it since Anders dies in every one of my games, he would have no need to bring it there. Such a DLC would have a very limited use to most of the players since many of them killed Anders (for varying reasons).

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 19 avril 2012 - 04:40 .

[AnImpossibleGirl]

Wow. The greatest thing (Within Dragon Age) since sliced bread is Alistair or Morrigan.

I just happened to like him, but I already stated I play differently than most. Most sided with the mages, I did not. Other's opinion on the matter does not reflect my own, or alter it at all. So the dislike of this character is well...duly noted, trust me. I did not like Fenris or Anders but I am not here voicing my dislike because I understand that what does not start well generally does not end well. Evidence of this dislike does not concern me, he is loyal if you are loyal. He lost the closest living person to him to an act of terrorism...you allowed it to go unpunished, so therefore he is not responsible for his reaction. As a friend Hawke should be there for the innocent not the guilty. Just to make a point Hawke pulled that knife out. If you read his story, Hawke was his salvation after The Chantry.

[edwardlm3]

That was nicely stated Poshible. I'm not a big fan of Sebastian, but I have to admit Anders and Fenris didn't spend much time in my party outside of missions that required them. I like Merrill and Isabela, but the age goes to bela cause she's actually a character that develops. I think the game did not alow time for Sebastian to develop. He couldn't determine what he wanted to be and before you know it the game is over. How many times have you ran through the Hawke Estate after the conclusion of the game hoping another mission will be unlocked?