344 réponses à ce sujet

[lillitheris]

J.C. Blade wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

ENorman94 wrote...

Neria Rose wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Just flat-out false. If Liara hadn't been trying to get Shepard, the Broker would have had the body safely out in the first book. Same result if she hadn't pursued further. Of course Liara couldn't have done it alone – and didn't – but the fundamental truth is that without her, Shepard would be collector paste or worse.

It's really quite sad that you have to go to these lengths to try to dislike a character

Are you really trying to sell that an organization as resourceful as Cerberus would be unable to find a replacement for Liara? That they would have been entirely unable to retrieve Shepard's body without her? Please. Unless a dev states otherwise, if Liara hadn't been present, Cerberus would have used someone else (preferably not an old squadmate), easy peasy.

In fact, wasnt Cerberus already looking for Shepard.

Yes, and they had failed. They needed Liara to get her. Anyway, y'all clearly way off the deep end on this so have fun with your nemesis…

Not true. They had the ship with Shepard's body in range of their guns. Miranda even asked if they should fire. The only reason why they hadn't shot it down was because TIM wanted to know the reason behind the Collectors' interest in Shepard. Again, Liara did nothing that Cerberus assault team couldn't do.

Also, you keep looking down on people and sprinkling veiled insults on anyone who don't hold Liara close to their heart doesn't help the matter.

I'm not really interested in helping you in this matter. It's…sad, that you've gotten yourself in a place where you hate a character so much that you can't admit anything good about her. Everything about your nemesis must be bad.

I'd invite you to read “Redemption” again, but it won't change your obsession, so…

[steej]

I hate it when people express their feelings on the internet.

[Tup3x]

StarAce905-2 wrote...

I don't really understand the complaints about this. Isn't it realistic to have a character that'll have feelings for Shepard regardless of whether he/she reciprocates?

In ME1 the game doesn't make it obvious that Shepard isn't interested when Shepard just tries to be nice and wants to be friends instead. ME3 doesn't have similar issues.

[Iraea]

Well, since this discussion started I had think of epantiras and her brilliant comics - esp. this one
epantiras.deviantart.com/gallery/26672451

I find it fascinating that BW can create such a variety of characters people love, like or despise - and it's different for everybody.

(Btw. if you don't know the Mess Perfect 1 and 2 parodies - what are you waiting for?
MP1: epantiras.deviantart.com/gallery/26672451
MP2: epantiras.deviantart.com/gallery/31228611 )

Modifié par Iraea, 19 avril 2012 - 12:21 .

[J.C. Blade]

lillitheris wrote...


I'm not really interested in helping you in this matter. It's…sad, that you've gotten yourself in a place where you hate a character so much that you can't admit anything good about her. Everything about your nemesis must be bad.

I'd invite you to read “Redemption” again, but it won't change your obsession, so…

I am not working myself up to hating her, if anything her fans have contributed to that far more than Liara herself. If Liara were a real person, a human with the  same personality if you will, I still wouldn't have liked her or be a friend with her.

Also, I've read “Redemption”, several times. I still don't see where in any pannel was she needed beyond Beoware needing a link back to Shepard's crew.

[lillitheris]

(But, just to point out again, I'm definitely all for being able to RP less interest in/all business with Liara – my LI suggestions include removing her from the nightmares where possible. This game railroads the player in so many ways it's really sad after ME and ME2…)

[Urazz]

I've never got locked into a romance with Liara in ME1 and in ME3 I pretty much picked the more renengade options on here which in ME3 were more professional and cold. It avoided romance with Liara easily enough.

[Foxhound2020]

A lot of people in here taking it too far.

Is this why envy is one of the seven deadly sins?

[kumquats]

J.C. Blade wrote...

I am not working myself up to hating her, if anything her fans have contributed to that far more than Liara herself.

I made you hate Liara? What did I do?

[Han Shot First]

Neria Rose wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Just flat-out false. If Liara hadn't been trying to get Shepard, the Broker would have had the body safely out in the first book. Same result if she hadn't pursued further. Of course Liara couldn't have done it alone – and didn't – but the fundamental truth is that without her, Shepard would be collector paste or worse.

It's really quite sad that you have to go to these lengths to try to dislike a character

Are you really trying to sell that an organization as resourceful as Cerberus would be unable to find a replacement for Liara? That they would have been entirely unable to retrieve Shepard's body without her? Please. Unless a dev states otherwise, if Liara hadn't been present, Cerberus would have used someone else (preferably not an old squadmate), easy peasy.

...and that person may have failed. Cerberus went with Liara for a reason, and that reason was that TIM thought she was the best person for the job. Random merc 201329 would have had no emotional investment in retrieving Shepard's body, and as such, is going to be less willing to risk his own life over a random corpse if things get too hairy.

admcmei wrote...

It's a written story. Written. By people. With fictional characters. They make choices on what characters are more prominent. Are people seriously complaining about this?

Unfortunately, yes.

In no work of fiction do all characters have the same level of plot relevance. Unfortunately this fact seems to be lost on gamers, who will complain when their particular favorite character gets less time in the spotlight than another. Most of the complaining about Liara is just being done by butthurt fans of the other romance options.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 19 avril 2012 - 05:19 .

[Alexein]

Han Shot First wrote...


In no work of fiction do all characters have the same level of plot relevance. Unfortunately this fact seems to be lost on gamers, who will complain when their particular favorite character gets less time in the spotlight than another. Most of the complaining about Liara is just being done by butthurt fans of the other romance options.

You win +20 internets:wizard:

Modifié par Alexein, 19 avril 2012 - 05:32 .

[DownyTif]

Wow I didn't see it like that at all. I mean, people in general can hug close friends without any love intention. Shepard has seen so much with her (with or without love) it just feel normal and actually perfect. It's called frienship and she decided to express it like that (and obviously she has feelings).

Liara in ME3 is plain perfection and I did not romance her. My opinion.

[Neria Rose]

Han Shot First wrote...

Neria Rose wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

Just flat-out false. If Liara hadn't been trying to get Shepard, the Broker would have had the body safely out in the first book. Same result if she hadn't pursued further. Of course Liara couldn't have done it alone – and didn't – but the fundamental truth is that without her, Shepard would be collector paste or worse.

It's really quite sad that you have to go to these lengths to try to dislike a character

Are you really trying to sell that an organization as resourceful as Cerberus would be unable to find a replacement for Liara? That they would have been entirely unable to retrieve Shepard's body without her? Please. Unless a dev states otherwise, if Liara hadn't been present, Cerberus would have used someone else (preferably not an old squadmate), easy peasy.

...and that person may have failed. Cerberus went with Liara for a reason, and that reason was that TIM thought she was the best person for the job. Random merc 201329 would have had no emotional investment in retrieving Shepard's body, and as such, is going to be less willing to risk his own life over a random corpse if things get too hairy.

I fail to see how this changes anything. Near as I can tell, TIM isn't about to use someone he doesn't think can do the job. So if Liara failed or were not available, he would have used someone else. And because Bioware's intention was always to make ME a trilogy, TIM would have succeeded regardless of Liara.

[CheeseNhamToast]

Hi all! First time writing on these forums but, my Shep was faithful to Liara the whole way through (well, except for when it got to the shower scene with Traynor, where I instantly panicked and reloaded and so rectified that mistake. If only real life was like that.) Garrus is my best mate, what a legend. And I'm also extremely fond of Joker, Tali, Grunt and Wrex. And EDI. I thought the game was beautifully executed, but it's glaringly obvious that there's more to the end than what you were shown. I'm wondering if the perfect ending gives hope for some little blue babies in the future, or indeed, babies of any shape or form depending on your LI. I hope so, but part of me just doesn't want this series to end, because it's the most intricate and open game I've ever played. I actually care about these characters! A lot! Not knowing what happened to them is bloody annoying. But then, is that just the sign of a great game? The fact that everyone is demanding more?

[J.C. Blade]

kumquats wrote...

J.C. Blade wrote...

I am not working myself up to hating her, if anything her fans have contributed to that far more than Liara herself.

I made you hate Liara? What did I do?

Just so we're clear, I meant fans as in this large clamor of voices on the forums that appears like a cloud whenever someone looks the wrong way in Liara's direction.

Comments like, "You have to be dead on the inside not to like Liara", "Liara went through hell to get Sheaprd back so she some gratitude", "Of course even your Shepard likes Liara after everything she had done for him", "I'm sad tha tother LIs got shafted but you know, Liara is a canon romance anyway so it doesn't matter that much"... You know, little things like that, where somehow personal preference for characters and the ability to roleplay went straight out the window when it came to her.

Modifié par J.C. Blade, 20 avril 2012 - 04:50 .

[Han Shot First]

Neria Rose wrote...

I fail to see how this changes anything. Near as I can tell, TIM isn't about to use someone he doesn't think can do the job. So if Liara failed or were not available, he would have used someone else. And because Bioware's intention was always to make ME a trilogy, TIM would have succeeded regardless of Liara.

Nevertheless it is faulty logic to claim that the character isn't responsible for bringing Shepard back from the dead because the writers, with the absolute power of creators of the Mass Effect universe, could have written written even Conrad Verner or the Biotic God into that role.  That is like arguing that Han Solo saving Luke Skywalker at the end of A New Hope was no big deal, because Lucas, as creator, could have replaced Han with Jar Jar Binks.

What the writers could have done out-of-universe has no bearing on what happens in universe.

[Foxhound2121]

J.C. Blade wrote...

kumquats wrote...

J.C. Blade wrote...

I am not working myself up to hating her, if anything her fans have contributed to that far more than Liara herself.

I made you hate Liara? What did I do?

Just so we're clear, I meant fans as in this large clamor of voices on the forums that appears like a cloud whenever someone looks the wrong way in Liara's direction.

Comments like, "You have to be dead on the inside not to like Liara", "Liara went through hell to get Sheaprd back so she some gratitude", "Of course even your Shepard likes Liara after everything she had done for him"... You know, little things like that, where somehow personal preference for characters and the ability to roleplay went straight out the window when it came to her.

What the writers create as character dispositions and roles in a series are not forced, and pretending like it's forced on anyone is entirely untrue. It's part of the story. In hindsight, complaining about such things is just thinly veiled envy. Some characters are going to get more attention than others and are going to have more significant roles. That is a fact.

Kelly Chambers forces herself on Shepard as well, but that is part of her character and the story, not some over-arching scheme of being forced on players. She also doesn't have much content as a romance option, that doesn't mean that players are forced not to romance her. That just means she is less significant to the story in most areas.

It would be just as silly to be envious that Miranda doesn't have content in Mass Effect 1. Of course she doesn't since she wouldn't really exist in the overall plot. That doesn't give anyone a legitimate argument to say that other romances are forced on them. Having a circular argument that romances are forced because of character role reasons and content reasons is illegitimate.

Modifié par Foxhound2121, 20 avril 2012 - 05:33 .

[Swimming Ferret]

Foxhound2121 wrote...

What the writers create as character dispositions and roles in a series are not forced, and pretending like it's forced on anyone is entirely untrue. It's part of the story. In hindsight, complaining about such things is just thinly veiled envy. Some characters are going to get more attention than others and are going to have more significant roles. That is a fact.

Kelly Chambers forces herself on Shepard as well, but that is part of her character and the story, not some over-arching scheme of being forced on players. She also doesn't have much content as a romance option, that doesn't mean that players are forced not to romance her. That just means she is less significant to the story in most areas.

It would be just as silly to be envious that Miranda doesn't have content in Mass Effect 1. Of course she doesn't since she wouldn't really exist in the overall plot. That doesn't give anyone a legitimate argument to say that other romances are forced on them. Having a circular argument that romances are forced because of character role reasons and content reasons is illegitimate.

True, but since ME are supposed to be RPG's then you should be able to act as you wish towards certain characters, even plot important ones.

However with Kelly you can be extremely rude to her; My renegade Femshep was, yet she wasn't allowed to be rude to Liara in ME2 or ME3 since, lol and behold, Liara is secretely her awesome best friend. That Femshep was a xenophobe; she never would have touched Liara, must less given her a bro hug in ME2.

True. However I think most people have beef with the fact their control over Shepard is taken away in ME3, especially towards the interactions with people. But Liara was lasvished on, and though I like her character, with some Shepard's they would have told Liara to go way or stop acting so buddy-buddy with them.

[Eragondragonrider]

I felt compared to the other romances Liara got the special treatment in ME3, love scene with no clothes on, deep feeling of relationship and dialog options, plus more interaction scenes.

[Han Shot First]

@Swimming

Shepard is also best buds with Garrus, and Tali is his/her kid sis', whether or not the player likes those characters. Liara isn't unique in that regard. 

[Swimming Ferret]

Han Shot First wrote...

@Swimming

Shepard is also best buds with Garrus, and Tali is his/her kid sis', whether or not the player likes those characters. Liara isn't unique in that regard. 

Always bringing up Garrus and Tali...

You can choose not to recruit Garrus in ME1. You can kill the both of them in ME2, or you can out Tali's dad; she's not too fond of you after that. You can't with Liara, she's stuck witth you and you can only kill her at the end and that's when pretty much everyone dies.

Modifié par Swimming Ferret, 20 avril 2012 - 06:00 .

[Nanuzsh]

I wonder when does she force herself on you. Shepard can ignore her.

She even when romanced friendzones you. You have to confirm her that, you yourself want to spend the rest of your life with her.

[Nanuzsh]

@Swimming Ferret you can choose to recruit Liara last in me1. She has no dialogues they are locked out, and almost as much screen time as unrecruited Garrus.

All she does is find Illos. For you, then you can ignore her.

So no she can be absent the entirety of me1.

You can ignore her on Illium and not do LOTSB.

You can ignore her in ME3 and keep it professional and cool.


What you CAN'T do is be mean to Liara. And that hardly exclusive. Shepard can't be mean to Garrus or Joker for the matter.

[TheBlackBaron]

ME2 Liara was best Liara. Barely in the game, but pretty cool when she was.