344 réponses à ce sujet

[zennyrpg]

The ME series is about choices. As much as I personally like Liara, people should have the option to buddy up with someone else. Having multiple dialogs and cut scenes is not that hard- furthermore, its the premise of the series (player choice).

[Jestina]

Shep's true friends through the series have been Liara and Garrus. Mostly everyone else is only Shep's friend when Shep is doing something they want.

[CC-Tron]

Jestina wrote...

Shep's true friends through the series have been Liara and Garrus. Mostly everyone else is only Shep's friend when Shep is doing something they want.

Nonsense. Garrus wasn't  a close friend of Shep in the first game or the second. All he has with Shep that can't be denied is fighting along side him as a squadmate.

[gearseffect]

Umm I get why People say Liara is forcing herself onto you and I understand it completely.

In ME3 there is a scene where Shep walks up from one of the kid dreams and goes to his bathroom to wash his/her face when Shep opens the door Liara is right there standing right outside your bath room door. She just helped herself into your cabin and stood right there waiting for you to come out from the bathroom. If Shep would have been naked Liara would have tried to rape Shep right there

Also in ME2 LotSB DLC I dumped Liara who I used in ME1 because she was a virgin. In ME2 I found my true love Samara. SO I dumped Liara in LotSB.

Then in ME3 I have to dump Liara at least two more times in the game. When I took Liara on the Lessus mission to see if I got any fireworks of jealousy Liara's tone toward Samara was extremely condescending and snide.

Then at the end of ME3 I hooked up with Ashley (after dumping Liara again) and Liara told me this "Shepard I've heard about you and Ms. Williams, So PLEASE leave, I don't have time for this sort of stupid drama over such things as this"

Now wait just a minute I dumped that dumb b!tch 3 times before I hooked up with Ashley and she still acts like we're an item? WTF?

In Fact from what I've been hearing Liara gets that way about any potential LI that a Player may have cheated or dumped Liara for.

Add to that the creepy shrine a non-LI Liara has of Shep's stuff in her place in LotSB, and I think people have a very good reason to feel like Liara is Forcing herself on them Or more to the point the Writers/developers are Forcing Liara on us by shoving her in our face all the time.

Next to add further salt in the wounds Liara LI was the only one that got any sort of care and effort put into it in ME3.

All this makes me support DLC that lets Shepard kick Liara of the squad and get a restraining order against her, or better yet gives us a chance to let her die someway anyway.

[hammyhamstersy]

I loveeeeeee Liara's character but I'll agree that she does force herself on Shep.  During my maleshep playthrough, I recall telling her on mars that I was fighting for Ash and that Ash meant someone special to me.  And yet she still invites me to presidium and talks to me about becoming more than friends....after I reaffirmed with her many times prior to this point that she and I are just friends!  If I wasn't romancing anyone else fine, if I had romance her before the other two games then fine maybe there's still something there.  However if I've stayed true to my LI from ME1 and I've shown no interest in you then maybe I shouldn't have to go through that whole talk about becoming more than friends. 

But it's fine, I still found her character very compelling and I appreciate the option of switching to her instead if I really wanted to. 

On the other hand, on my shep that did romance Liara... I couldn't have been happier!! having a nightmare and then coming out of bathroom to see your LI there just like she somehow felt that you weren't sleep well.  AWESOME

[Brockxz]

If someone thinks Liara is forcing herself on your Shepard then he/she have never tried to stay faithful the whole ME2 game. Sometimes try to stay faithful and try to dodge all those sex crazy monkeys you call your squad on the second game. I had to be really rude to almost everyone if I wanted to avoid romancing with them. It's like every single dialog with them had secret path to unlock romance and you try dodge it. I had to restart a lot of conversations with some squad members because of that romance bull**** Bioware tried to force me on. And guess what, Liara wasn't an option even.until the DLC and even then every squadmate tried to hop in my pants every now and then.

[lillitheris]

hammyhamstersy wrote...

I loveeeeeee Liara's character but I'll agree that she does force herself on Shep.  During my maleshep playthrough, I recall telling her on mars that I was fighting for Ash and that Ash meant someone special to me.  And yet she still invites me to presidium and talks to me about becoming more than friends.

How is that even possible? When I DID romance Liara, she said that it was nice to be here, as friends, and I had to specifically say I wanted to be more than friends.

This is on a character that had previously said she wants to have kids with Liara, and had reaffirmed the relationship TWICE in ME3 already

[hammyhamstersy]

lillitheris wrote...

hammyhamstersy wrote...

I loveeeeeee Liara's character but I'll agree that she does force herself on Shep.  During my maleshep playthrough, I recall telling her on mars that I was fighting for Ash and that Ash meant someone special to me.  And yet she still invites me to presidium and talks to me about becoming more than friends.

How is that even possible? When I DID romance Liara, she said that it was nice to be here, as friends, and I had to specifically say I wanted to be more than friends.

This is on a character that had previously said she wants to have kids with Liara, and had reaffirmed the relationship TWICE in ME3 already

heh yeah I had the same thing, it's the way the BW made it so that you still get the final say in who you want to end up with.  In certain contexts it's fine.  I was sort of okay with it when I had Liara as LI and stayed faithful in all 3 games.  But then it felt really out of place if I had someone else as LI and I specifically told her that nooooooo we're just friends.  

But of course it would be too much work for BW to factor in all these things and create different dialogue for all the choices.  It does make sense for them to allow you to romance anyone you want in the 3rd game.  Just different attitude towards games with choices and consequences. 

[fainmaca]

StarAce905-2 wrote...

I don't really understand the complaints about this. Isn't it realistic to have a character that'll have feelings for Shepard regardless of whether he/she reciprocates?

It's not the fact that she has unrequited feelings for Shepard. It's the fact that Shepard is more or less railroaded into quasi-romantic interactions with her.

An example: Speaking to Aethyta on the Citadel. My Shepard never went near Liara in that way. He's a Jackmancer, nothing else. and yet, when I speak to Aethyta, Shepard starts spouting all of this dialogue without my prompting that implies he and Liara are an item, including the line 'Nobody messes with my girl'.

This is just one example out of many where my shepard suddenly starts speakingout on his own, out of my control, and makes it clear he and Liara are an item even though I've gone to great pains (Having to reload Mass Effect 1 several times after I accidentally locked in the romance just by being nice to her) to make sure he's not in a relationship with her.

So you tell me why I shouldn't feel like the whole thing's being forced on me after all that.

[Lucky Thirteen]

It's kind of weird that if you spend the entire game never taking Shepard to talk to her, never using her in the squad, and she still loves Shepard unconditionally. It gives her this stalker like behavior.

In ME2 that feeling went away for me a little while, she seemed to mellow out a lot, but I guess the Liara fans hated how she was acting in ME2. Then LotSB came out and she was keeping a piece of Shepard's bloody armor in her room. When I was pressing buttons all over I was half expecting a secret door to open to an alter of Shepard, where Liara sacrifices goats and virgins in hopes that Shepard would love her back. I mean like an alter made of Shepard's hair and skin cells that she's scrapped off pillows and bathroom floors.

I let her be all cold and distant and didn't even attempt talking to her out of it. Had Shepard tell her she can come up to Shepard's room some other time, which I had imagined ended up being never. There seems to be no change in her in reaction to this, she still seems to love Shepard unconditionally. She seems to be mellowed out again in ME3, but then I'm forced to have her on Mars when I would have preferred to keep Vega (and don't tell me he has to crash the shuttle, you really can't see Liara doing that?). It's so weird seeing my Shepard grin like a little school girl excited her bestest best friend is back on the team. You never talk to her! You never took her off the Normandy! Why the hell are you smiling? You know Vega more than you know Liara!

Then the whole time capsule thing was really pushing on the creepy stalker factor. I'm terrified to know what she means by all breathless heroics she saved up to put in there.

Bottom line, Bioware needs to figure out a friend system. The game needs to recognize who you like and don't like, so you don't end up in a situation that characters just feel like creepy stalkers. Or they need to give you an actual choice on who you have on your squad and don't have. If I could trade Liara to have Miranda back, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Modifié par Lucky Thirteen, 21 avril 2012 - 01:55 .

[Brockxz]

fainmaca wrote...

StarAce905-2 wrote...

I don't really understand the complaints about this. Isn't it realistic to have a character that'll have feelings for Shepard regardless of whether he/she reciprocates?

It's not the fact that she has unrequited feelings for Shepard. It's the fact that Shepard is more or less railroaded into quasi-romantic interactions with her.

An example: Speaking to Aethyta on the Citadel. My Shepard never went near Liara in that way. He's a Jackmancer, nothing else. and yet, when I speak to Aethyta, Shepard starts spouting all of this dialogue without my prompting that implies he and Liara are an item, including the line 'Nobody messes with my girl'.

This is just one example out of many where my shepard suddenly starts speakingout on his own, out of my control, and makes it clear he and Liara are an item even though I've gone to great pains (Having to reload Mass Effect 1 several times after I accidentally locked in the romance just by being nice to her) to make sure he's not in a relationship with her.

So you tell me why I shouldn't feel like the whole thing's being forced on me after all that.

How about you don't go and don't talk with Liara or any other squad member you don't want to? I actually after ME2 and that bull**** that almost everyone was forcing his love to me when I actually wanted just stay failthful to Liara just ignored everyone and only talked to them when they had mission for me. Same approach I did in ME3 and I didn't need to listen their crap and their problems I didn't wanted to know about (especially Ash and Tali). 

[Fenrisfil]

I did get ninjamanced by Liara in ME1 once, but in ME3 it's pretty clear and easy to avoid. Sure she's still affectionate but that's not a problem. It seems a lot of people are jealous because of they see her as Biowares favourite. If there was canon she probably would be the canon LI. But until BW decides to establish canon, it doesn't matter. The only reason she has plot armour is because she wasn't a standard squadmate for ME2. I find it hard to believe BW excluded her from the bulk of that game out of favouritism, just so she would always be alive for ME3. I think the endings have shown us they didn't think that far ahead. Lol.

[lillitheris]

hammyhamstersy wrote...

lillitheris wrote...

hammyhamstersy wrote...

I loveeeeeee Liara's character but I'll agree that she does force herself on Shep.  During my maleshep playthrough, I recall telling her on mars that I was fighting for Ash and that Ash meant someone special to me.  And yet she still invites me to presidium and talks to me about becoming more than friends.

How is that even possible? When I DID romance Liara, she said that it was nice to be here, as friends, and I had to specifically say I wanted to be more than friends.

This is on a character that had previously said she wants to have kids with Liara, and had reaffirmed the relationship TWICE in ME3 already

heh yeah I had the same thing, it's the way the BW made it so that you still get the final say in who you want to end up with.  In certain contexts it's fine.  I was sort of okay with it when I had Liara as LI and stayed faithful in all 3 games.  But then it felt really out of place if I had someone else as LI and I specifically told her that nooooooo we're just friends.  

But of course it would be too much work for BW to factor in all these things and create different dialogue for all the choices.  It does make sense for them to allow you to romance anyone you want in the 3rd game.  Just different attitude towards games with choices and consequences. 

It really wouldn't, though. All it needs is that for a romance that wasn't broken off at the end of ME2:

1. It starts with the assumption that it's still on. In the dialogue, you can then either reaffirm it (not prompted by the other person wanting to be friends, but something like I missed you - Me too, let's never be apart), or then break it off (I missed you - Me too…but I moved on. Or, you know, “we need to talk”).

2. Thence, if the romance is still on, it is on (see my LI improvements thread in the signature), and the LI will not go back to the friend zone, unless:

3. You can break it off again at any point. Preferably explicitly via dialogue rather than accidentally - e.g. all new potential LIs say you need to break it up first. And so on.

It's…trivial to make it work in the game. The current state of things is a decision spiced with a bit of laziness.

Edit: I should probably add this to my thread explicitly, actually.

Modifié par lillitheris, 21 avril 2012 - 03:41 .

[legbamel]

dgcatanisiri wrote...
[snip of some really excellent points]
And then there's the roleplaying side of things. I'm going to use my preferred Shepard style for an example here. He's gone through hell. He watched his unit on Akuze, including someone he'd been in an early-forming relationship with, be wiped out. He let Ashley, who he'd become good friends with due to their shared experience of losing the people they served with, die on Virmire because she was part of the distraction team. Debris from Sovereign nearly killed him, sheer dumb luck keeping him alive. After all of this, he's put in a DNR on his file because he's been so close to death, he sees it as an old friend, not a thing to be feared, and whenever it would come for him, he'd go with a smile.

And then Liara brings him back.

Yes, the audience knows from the comic that she certainly wasn't alone, but Shepard's knowledge is that she's the one who handed his body to Cerberus to revive him. No one corrects this. He is pissed off. He eventually comes to accept that he was needed, but he hasn't forgiven Liara for it. He understand why she did it, but he still is of the opinion that she did it out of her unhealthy attachment to him. And yet, there is no way to express this in ME3. No moment of calling her out for what she did (in fact, you can only ever express anger ONCE about her part in it between ME2 and ME3, and that's right after she tells Shepard), no way of having Shepard be short with her and expressing anger or dissatisfaction towards her. At most, Shepard can be distant but friendly, as if there are just other things on Shepard's mind and distracting him than it is Shepard not wanting her around. [another little snip]

Add to this the fact that she never tells anyone that Cerberus has her body and is trying to bring her back.  Not only is Shepard under the impression that Liara was intending to secure his or her dead body for some creepy, personal reason (what the hell was she going to do with it if Cerberus hadn't had a plan?!) but that she kept it a secret.  Even if she'd waited a year or more to give Miranda's team time to actually get something done she could have told at least the Alliance what she knew.

And I still have to hug her, I still have to take her on missions, I still have to have her showing up in my bedroom uninvited.  And she still gets to play that sweet, inexperienced young nerd between bouts of information brokering and killing people.  I don't trust her and I would far rather tell her that and be done with her.

[gearseffect]

Let me make this clear, the writers brought the Liara hate on by forcing her on everyone and using her as the writers pet. When thread is created where people are venting their current frustration of Liara being forced on them yet again, Liara fans flock their to try and argue a case of defense for it all.

By arguing and trying to get everyone else to see Why you love Liara, and we should like her as at lest a friend too, you only hurt LIara more. Because it ends up looking like your doing the very thing that we are venting about, Liara being forced on us.

Therefore Liara fans only bread more hate by flocking to threads where non'Liara fans are venting their frustration. Because the last thing we want to see when we are already upset and feel that Liara is being forced upon us is Liara fans making a case in favor of Liara.

We create this threads to find like minded people who share are pain, not to have people add to that pain.

So please do yourself a favor and don't make your case for Liara in threads created by fans venting and looking for others who share their pain.

If not for yourself than do it for the Liara, don't make things worse for her don't bread more Liara hate, by trying to defend her in threads like this.

[lillitheris]

gearseffect wrote...

In ME3 there is a scene where Shep walks up from one of the kid dreams and goes to his bathroom to wash his/her face when Shep opens the door Liara is right there standing right outside your bath room door. She just helped herself into your cabin and stood right there waiting for you to come out from the bathroom. If Shep would have been naked Liara would have tried to rape Shep right there.

This is incorrect. Did you have audio and subtitles turned off, maybe? Embellishments detract from your point.

Modifié par lillitheris, 22 avril 2012 - 09:36 .

[XEternalXDreamsX]

I see the frustration about Liara. I can't help but feel screwed with my ME2 romances and my VS romance. Even with the romance arc excluded, ME3 with Liara seems "overwhelming" though I am not forced to use her most of the time. I have restarted the series with a ME1 lv. 60 character with Liara as a love interest, and that type of relationship is "alien" to me, it is pretty good though. She's has definitely grown through the series. She doesn't feel forced in 1 or 2 but 3 does feel like she crosses a lot barriers that people don't have control over compared to the first two. Hopefully dlc is more focused on others

[Shallyah]

Liara is stereotypical and boring. She also keeps pitying herself about how wrong she was about the Protheans, which is unnerving. She should just grow up and get off my ship.

I don't care if she has a crush on me. It was cute at first, but the way she keeps coming around to play the innocent playboy doll when I want to see characters I've chosen to spend time with is just too much.

Modifié par Shallyah, 23 avril 2012 - 02:36 .

[XEternalXDreamsX]

Lol, yep. I remember Eden Prime and talking to Javik afterward with Liara. The asari can write now? Really? xD

[rubynorman]

hammyhamstersy wrote...

During my maleshep playthrough, I recall telling her on mars that I was fighting for Ash and that Ash meant someone special to me.  And yet she still invites me to presidium and talks to me about becoming more than friends....after I reaffirmed with her many times prior to this point that she and I are just friends! 

Do you know that I rejected Kaidan in ME1 and he told me he wanted more in ME3 while I stick with Liara in ME1, ME2 LotSB and I touched Liara's face, smiled with her etc in front of him on Mars. Well ?
Liara loves Shepard. It's like in real life you have someone who love you no matter what. I see no problem here IMO. Return it or not it's your choice.
And in the date scene I told her "I would like that" (to be friend) once and she happily accepted it while I remained loyal to her in 2 games, no forcing there.

Modifié par rubynorman, 23 avril 2012 - 03:01 .

[gearseffect]

Nope I didn't have audio turned off, and besides I consider the sh!t my Shep sperts out in autodialogue as all %70 BS. It was an invasion of My Sheps privacy whenever he turned around and Liara was practically right on top of him.

Besides here is another post I made that all you Liara fans may want to think about

Let me make this clear, the writers brought the Liara hate on by forcing her on everyone and using her as the writers pet. When a thread is created where people are venting their current frustration of Liara being forced on them yet again, Liara fans flock their to try and argue a case of defense for it all.

By arguing and trying to get everyone else to see Why you love Liara, and we should like her as at lest a friend too, you only hurt Liara more. Because it ends up looking like your doing the very thing that we are venting about, Liara being forced on us.

Therefore Liara fans only bread more hate by flocking to threads where non'Liara fans are venting their frustration. Because the last thing anyone wants to have when the they are upset, is more of the thing that they are upset about.

In this case more Liara being pushed our way.

[Barquiel]

You can start a romance with Liara shortly after the Cerberus attack on the Citadel...and that's the only scene you can start a romance with her.

Liara: I wish we could spend more time together like this. Just...friends.

You have two options for a response to her
- ...or more than friends
- I'd like that a lot

Only one option starts the romance and "forces" it on you. I think the one that does is quite obvious.

[ENorman94]

Like I said, I find the fact that her appearance has more quality in its emotion and writing over other characters to be very annoying and unfair, and when that it shoved in my face throughout the whole game, its not unreasonable to be irritated by the character.

When your Shepard, who has never even showed interest in Liara, starts rubbing her face talking about how he loves her and calling her "my girl" even if you don't like her is what is making most people mad. Its blatantly unfair to people who prefer other LIs over her. Frankly we have the right to be pissed.

If, in ME3, the same thing happened to say Ashley or Miranda, I know for an absolute fact that Liaramancers would be b******* about it too.

[Shajar]

[quote]IsaacShep wrote...


Exactly right. I'm not sure where the meme that you couldn't turn Liara down started.[/quote]If you take bottom "I'm not interested in you at all" option in ME1, you WILL get locked into a romance with Liara. This is simply a fact, it happened to me. The only way to avoid romancing her in ME1 is to either not speak to her at all or take middle option, something like "I only want to be friends". But the bottom option to turn her down locks you in romance with her.
[/quote]

This is so annoying bug, if you are renegade for her suddenly she is your LI. Thank god there is Masseffectsaves website to download clean saves 

[Hadeedak]

I find I've had some luck with that if I'm also being decent to Kaidan. I'll trigger the 'who's Kaidan to you?' dialogue, tell Liara he's important.... And go shut Kaidan down because he can take a hint when told he's not reading the signals right. With luck, it'd work the same with Ash. But having gotten ninjamanced by certain blue parties once, I admit I'm pretty careful.

"NO, you fools! I just want to be friends! Noooooooo grabby hands! No grabby hands!"