344 réponses à ce sujet

[wolfstanus]

It you ever had a very close female friend. Not a Gf.

This kinda normal

[Noelemahc]

I'm feeling I'm invisible. No, really, everybody keeps ignoring my posts for no apparent reason =) Do the words "ethnic minority" and "social disconnect" scare you or something? Liara's attitude towards Shepard is perfectly plausible as are the reasons behind it. For humans, anyway.

One of my Sheps didn't romance anyone before ME3, and like many others I found myself very surprised when Aethyta adressed him as "boyfriend" instead of "human commander". That doesn't change the fact you can romance whoever you want, but still makes me feel like I'm pushed to choose her

This has been discussed to the death. Aethyta is half-krogan, even if she's apparently the wisest matriarch on the block, she's still incapable of rational thought if she thinks her daughter's in danger from you.

This is no different than some random dude whose daughter you share a class with calling you her "boyfriend" to rile you and see what you can do, it's a form of gauging your reaction to see how good a friend you are.
You lot are apparently crappy friends =)

Modifié par Noelemahc, 17 avril 2012 - 07:21 .

[StarcloudSWG]

You can say no.

It's that simple. Say no, if you don't like Liara.

[Iconoclaste]

wolfstanus wrote...

It you ever had a very close female friend. Not a Gf.

This kinda normal

It depends of what type of girlfriend one has : the jealous type, which seems to be integrated in the game if you date more than 2 LI's at the same time (not all), would maybe not be fond of such an insistant "close friend" that meets the commander in private chamber to take him by the arm in a dream... If it's true in this particular circumstance, I doubt such a "close friend" could not be viewed as a "competitor".

If Liara is such an "empathic" friend, I assume Shepard can be as empathic towards is LI if not Liara. Like someone else wrote earlier in this thread, other LI mostly got a wink and nothing more. That's not "forcing" Liara directly, but that surely is a good hint for those who did not go "mainstream" with canon LI.

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 17 avril 2012 - 07:25 .

[Noelemahc]

If Liara is such an "empathic" friend, I assume Shepard can be as empathic towards is LI if not Liara. Like someone else wrote earlier in this thread, other LI mostly got a wink and nothing more. That's not "forcing" Liara directly, but that surely is a good hint for those who did not go "mainstream" with canon LI.

I'm not saying the other LIs are not mistreated. I'm simply saying that things that irritate people about Liara aren't bad writing OF HER, they are indicative that she's better written (and, yes, a creator pet) unlike the others.

I'm still iffed we can't opt to call Jack by her real name =(

[Iconoclaste]

Just stating my opinion, because this subject is concern # 248 regarding what "irritates" me in ME3. There are things far worse in this game that put this minor problem into much secondary perspective, don't worry!

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 17 avril 2012 - 07:30 .

[J.C. Blade]

Noelemahc wrote...

If Liara is such an "empathic" friend, I assume Shepard can be as empathic towards is LI if not Liara. Like someone else wrote earlier in this thread, other LI mostly got a wink and nothing more. That's not "forcing" Liara directly, but that surely is a good hint for those who did not go "mainstream" with canon LI.

I'm not saying the other LIs are not mistreated. I'm simply saying that things that irritate people about Liara aren't bad writing OF HER, they are indicative that she's better written (and, yes, a creator pet) unlike the others.

I'm still iffed we can't opt to call Jack by her real name =(

And that writing of Liara wouldn’t be as bad if Shepard had the option to be cool and professional and at times dismissive towards her crewmates, all of them given the choice. But as of ME2 and especially ME3, Shepard is a bleeding heart who doesn’t know how to distance herself from people. Being stern is obviously not how the “Hero of Earth” should behave.

I still can't stand her, mind you. I find Aria and Samara as much better representatives of the Asari race.

Modifié par J.C. Blade, 17 avril 2012 - 07:38 .

[Noelemahc]

And that writing of Liara wouldn’t be as bad if Shepard had the option to be cool and professional and at times dismissive towards her crewmates, all of them given the choice.

Yet again I am reminded of Alpha Protocol. Do we honestly know any other game where intentionally pissing off the people you work with could bring POSITIVE gameplay benefits?

I still can't stand her, mind you. I find Aria and Samara as much better representatives of the Asari race.

As I already wrote, she's NOT representative of her race. She's a nerdy shut-in from an ethnic minority that was pampered as a kid. That's about as far removed from "general populace" as can get without having a debilitating genetic disease. I really wish people would stop forgetting that judging a race by its hikikomori is not smart.

Modifié par Noelemahc, 17 avril 2012 - 07:40 .

[J.C. Blade]

Noelemahc wrote...

And that writing of Liara wouldn’t be as bad if Shepard had the option to be cool and professional and at times dismissive towards her crewmates, all of them given the choice.

Yet again I am reminded of Alpha Protocol. Do we honestly know any other game where intentionally pissing off the people you work with could bring POSITIVE gameplay benefits?

Who said anything about being rude? Or pissing people off? A Commander is not allowed to be distant from the crew and tell them to cut the crap and focus on things ahead?

I still can't stand her, mind you. I find Aria and Samara as much better representatives of the Asari race.

As I already wrote, she's NOT representative of her race. She's a nerdy shut-in from an ethnic minority that was pampered as a kid. That's about as far removed from "general populace" as can get without having a debilitating genetic disease. I really wish people would stop forgetting that judging a race by its hikikomori is not smart.

She was our first and closest window into the Asari race. I will judge all of the asari according to her at first - until Samara showed up, that is. Not to mention that the evolution of her character through the game might reflect at least two of the Asari stages.

Modifié par J.C. Blade, 17 avril 2012 - 07:46 .

[Noelemahc]

A Commander is not allowed to be distant from the crew and tell them to cut the crap and focus on thing ahead?

You can do that with the human members of the crew. I wonder why? Oh, right, Chain of Command. But yeah, I get where you're coming from, it never irked me because none of my Sheps were unwilling to listen, but I know to respect the freedoms of others. Will add this to my running List of Gripes To Retell.

She was our first and closest window into the Asari race. I will judge all the asai according to her at first - until Samara showed up, that is. Not to mention that the evolution of her character through the game might reflect at least two of the Asari stages.

And that's how the First Contact War started =) On a serious note, the whole trilogy is about overcoming xenophobic tendencies - in the player, in Ashley, in Javik, in Wrex even, if by a smaller margin. He's apparently really into Asari, what with the inference that Aleena is Aria and that they had a fling of sorts. And of course that nod at Liara on Sur'Kesh.

One more thing the ending ruined, huh.

Modifié par Noelemahc, 17 avril 2012 - 07:47 .

[Iconoclaste]

Noelemahc wrote...

Yet again I am reminded of Alpha Protocol. Do we honestly know any other game where intentionally pissing off the people you work with could bring POSITIVE gameplay benefits?

I don't think the comment went that far.

Modifié par Iconoclaste, 17 avril 2012 - 08:01 .

[Sifr]

dreman9999 wrote...

I'm sorry....Did some one forget why their Shep is still alive in ME2?

Two years of hard and tireless efforts on the part of one, Ms. Miranda Lawson?

Yes, I know Liara went through a lot of things to get Shepard's body, but the events of Redemption are depicted in a comic, thus Shepard cannot know of them and Liara is a little reticent with Shepard and unwilling to go into details during Lair of the Shadow Broker. Don't get me wrong, Shepard would be grateful to her, but you can see why they may not understand exactly how much she did to get their body back.

Miranda's contributions actually outweigh Liara's. She went through a lot of work and managed the impossible by actually resurrecting you. She was your erstwhile companion in the second game and due to your influence, that ****y Ice Queen who was completely  loyal to Cerberus, slowly defrosted into a (relatively) less ****y, kinder person who even flipped off the Illusive Man.

Yet, should I romance her, all I get is a quickie thats not even properly rendered? (The infamous sagging butt)

Yeah...

I love Liara's character, but to argue she was responsible for bring Shepard back to life doesn't hold up with the person who actually DID all the work, particularly as that person is effectively shafted, both figuratively and literally... and in that latter case, we don't even get a proper romance scene to show it, if romanced Liara can get TWO!

And also, the whole mindmeld has so many unfortunate implications. She mentions her earlier conversation from one about sharing themselves during a mind-meld... but that conversation was about Asari reproduction if I'm not mistaken? Not to mention the fact it looks like this...





I do like Liara. I just wish she didn't Ninjamance me in my other romances!

As a final thought, I rekindled my relationship with Ashley in ME3. How will she react if Liara ends up pregnant? She has access to assault rifles! And Miranda is dead in this playthrough! She can't be counted on to bring me back AGAIN!

[J.C. Blade]

Noelemahc wrote...

She was our first and closest window into the Asari race. I will judge all the asai according to her at first - until Samara showed up, that is. Not to mention that the evolution of her character through the game might reflect at least two of the Asari stages.

And that's how the First Contact War started =) On a serious note, the whole trilogy is about overcoming xenophobic tendencies - in the player, in Ashley, in Javik, in Wrex even, if by a smaller margin. He's apparently really into Asari, what with the inference that Aleena is Aria and that they had a fling of sorts. And of course that nod at Liara on Sur'Kesh.

One more thing the ending ruined, huh.

And this is still a roleplaying game. Some Shepards may overcome xenophobic tendencies but it should not be, once again, forced on the player.

I loved the ending ;P

[greghorvath]

As a hetero male I am much less bothered by Liara's (obviously female) advances than those of Kaidan, and the rest of them.

No, this was not anti-gay, it was pro-hetero. (for me this means that I have nothing against homosexuality as long its not obligatory)

[Noelemahc]

And also, the whole mindmeld has so many unfortunate implications. <...> but that conversation was about Asari reproduction if I'm not mistaken? Not to mention the fact it looks like this...

I'm all for Sheppy Shep having a legacy, even if it's gonna be an illegitimate blue-skinned girl that's gonna end up one-eight-krogan, one-half-human and all-bundle-of-problems.
I would even accept Mass Effect 4 having her as an origin option a-la DAO. But only ONE of them.

Some Shepards may overcome xenophobic tendencies but it should not be, once again, forced on the player.

I hear ya. Lack of choice in Shep's reaction is one of my biggest complaints about ME2 and ME3.

As a hetero male I am much less bothered by Liara's (obviously female) advances than those of Kaidan, and the rest of them.

I'm yet to play a dudeShep that spared Kaidan. Is it really that bad or is it like Anders in DA2, who people complained about incessantly, but who shut up about shacking up if you tell him to shut up at the start?

Modifié par Noelemahc, 17 avril 2012 - 07:59 .

[Metalrocks]

in part 1, liara was more like a teenager who discovered love/feelings for the first time. that would also explain her open feelings for you. after all, she said she had some feelings for shepard when they have meet for the first time.
in part she was more in control of it and was mainly focused on beating the shadow broker.
in part 3 she still has feelings for you, but you can turn her down if you want. she still accepts it but the feelings dont go away.

yes, liara was made to be the better romance choice then others but you still can have a romantic time with them. look at garrus. his way of romance in part 2 was just hilerious.

[jtsherrard]

I view non romanced liara as like a sibbling. Garrus is my best friend and right hand man, but liara is kinda my twin (blue) sister. I dont find her actions or inclusion abhorrent, I find it nice. Ash went to have drinks (or something) with Vega, my shep goes and hangs with Liara.

[jtsherrard]

I tried to save Kaiden once, his dialogues came off as he and shep were.... More. So I just avoided his inclusion into ME2

[SNascimento]

This is Asari's nature.

[Noelemahc]

Ash went to have drinks (or something) with Vega, my shep goes and hangs with Liara.

BTW, one of those things that didn't get enough light. Vega obviously is into Ash, yet we can only infer the details from her drinking moment. Ken and Gabby get more closure than they do!

[AkiKishi]

StarAce905-2 wrote...

I don't really understand the complaints about this. Isn't it realistic to have a character that'll have feelings for Shepard regardless of whether he/she reciprocates?

Shes a creepy friend the sort you would never get drunk with. I'm still not sure if she mind raped me in London or not.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 17 avril 2012 - 08:57 .

[Noelemahc]

Ivandra Ceruden wrote...

Well, just as Isabela is DA 2's b*tch, Liara is pretty much ME's b*tch, ready to bite the bait laid out, so to speak.

Which is funny considering how many people had problems getting Isabela to stay to finish her romance path =)

[greghorvath]

Noelemahc wrote...
*snip*

As a hetero male I am much less bothered by Liara's (obviously female) advances than those of Kaidan, and the rest of them.

I'm yet to play a dudeShep that spared Kaidan. Is it really that bad or is it like Anders in DA2, who people complained about incessantly, but who shut up about shacking up if you tell him to shut up at the start?

I would not say 'bad' as such. It just feels weird. I think Bioware did a good job walking a fine line with this same sex thing, but the prominence of it is conspicuous to say the least.

Can't say about DA2. I don't play games outside ME and Crysis universe (looking forward to the third installment...) (well, I do play Heroes III

[SLana]

This has been discussed to the death. Aethyta is half-krogan, even if she's apparently the wisest matriarch on the block, she's still incapable of rational thought if she thinks her daughter's in danger from you.

This is no different than some random dude whose daughter you share a class with calling you her "boyfriend" to rile you and see what you can do, it's a form of gauging your reaction to see how good a friend you are.
You lot are apparently crappy friends =)

Nope, I like Liara as a friend actually, but Shep's answer also supposes they are in relationships. If this dialogue has "friends" options in both Aethyta's and Shepard's phrases I can't see a reason why my single Shep should recieve "romance" one. Big difference. I still want to protect her and "This will never happen" shows enough care I think, I don't have to call every person I care about "my girl" or "my boy" 

Modifié par SLana, 17 avril 2012 - 09:52 .