663 réponses à ce sujet

[indyracing]

I did not, in any way, "take Earth back".

I didn't really even get to try.

As far as I can tell, what I did was wipe out all life in the Sol System, and I didn't even have a choice not to.

[ogj835]

The fact of the matter is that if anyone felt like they "took back earth," they were playing a whole different game. This Extended Cut might be for clarification and explanation about the endings as they are now but if that is all they are going to be and there will be no alteration or additional endings planned for ME3 then that phrase clearly should not have been used in the advertisements for pre-orders and sales.

Don't get me wrong I love all 3 of the ME games. ME3 is an awesome game maybe even slightly better in terms of game play than ME2 but these endings totally just take away from it in a huge way. I really hope things get taken care of with this Extended Cut DLC and the rest of whatever DLC they plan to release cause I do like these games, if not well, after everything is done for ME3, I won't be bothered to purchase another BioWare game.

[Sublyminal]

No, I don't feel as if I took anything back.

[Vexia2070]

no. it just....really really stunk.... win some or lose lots of paying customers.

[ahandsomeshark]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Stuff like that would have been cool for sure, but would it have really helped contribute to the idea of taking back Earth if you saw that sort of stuff as ancillary content that was built around what is already there (i.e. not additional missions).

Fans would have enjoyed it for sure, but I'm not sure it would have contributed much to the question of "Do you feel like you took back Earth?"

I'm sort of confused by this statement, as in I'm not sure if you're proposing it as an either or (i.e seeing grunt riding on a dinosaur wouldn't have really contributed to feeling more like you took back earth). But assuming you are I'd disagree, because part of the how the game was set up was completing these missions in order to help facilitate the taking back of earth, so seeing direct consequences of my mission competiton (or not seeing them) would directly relate to how much I felt like I/my shepard contributed to taking back earth. Otherwise it raises the question of what does any of the ally gathering and former squad mate helping have to do with taking back earth. Would earth have been any less taken back had I just skipped all those side missions and played multiplayer for a few days? 

Especially if the assets had been specifically deployed, like instead of having to fight out one area with your crew, grunt rides in on a dinosaur and takes them all out. Or you see content of these assets possibly deployed in other areas of earth. (Drell forces infiltrating reaper strong holds in some desert, Krogan and the dinosaurs in the mountain areas of middle east/asia fighting off reapers.. Salarians STG forces in some jungle area. etc). That would have definitely contributed to taking back EARTH.

I'm not proposing it as an either/or.  I'm just trying to make sense out of this idea of "Do you feel like you took back Earth?"

For example, you say that seeing the scenes of Drell, Krogan, etc. doing awesome things would help you feel like you are taking back Earth.  My question for you is: Would the feeling of taking back Earth felt significantly different if the kickass scenes you would have liked to have seen with the various races still existed but just with humans.

i.e. Is the lack of feeling of taking back Earth more due to a general lack of content (show the fight), or more due to the lack of seeing the combined forces.

both? that's actually a really tough question just because of how the game is set up vs how the war assets are set up. My immediate reaction would be too say that seeing the combined forces would make me feel more like I took back earth because of how much importance the game put on bringing in the other species, but then considering how much of the war assets were made up of alliance troops I guess it kind of depends on individual players. So thinking about it, for me seeing more content (even if they were just human forces) would have had more of an effect on feeling like I took back earth than seeing grunt on a dinosaur (though that would have made my life complete), but it would have made me question what purpose the entire rest of ME3 served in leading up to taking back earth since there's not really an option to say screw the other races and focus on building up the alliance/human forces.

In other news it's awesome that you responded because I honestly never would have thought of the question in that way and it gives a lot of insight into the multiple ways developers have to think when designing games.

[xefiroEA]

First, I want to thank Allan for following this thread so closely. It's nice to have a conversation.

As for myself, I didn't really feel like I took back Earth, but I think that has more to do with my mind set. For me, and extension for my paragon spacer war hero Shepard, ME3 was never about taking Earth back. To be perfectly honest, I always felt that was tacked on to the game to boost sales, to get people who didn't know the franchise to pick it up.

I never felt more disconnected from the action than when Shepard brought up how important it was to fight the Reapers on Earth.

ME3 was about taking back the galaxy. Freeing all life from the tyranny of the Reapers. It wasn't even about synthetics versus organics. The Geth were disposable pawns for the Reapers, and would be destroyed just as surely as the rest of the space faring civilizations. It was about building bridges and getting everyone to abandon petty squabbles for a greater cause.

In the midst of all this, the "Take Earth back!" slogan felt like it cheapened my efforts. Suddenly I'm not brokering an alliance between the Krogan and the Turians because it's the right thing to do, but because humans are more important than either of them and I need them to throw their lives at my enemies, not each other. Every time I demand that someone abandon their worlds to save mine, I become as much of a petty politician as they are.

Not to mention that "Take Earth back!" makes for a very poor strategy to fight off the reapers. Taking earth is but a battle in the war, and if all your energy is spent focused on that, you'll lose in every other theater and eventually lose the war.

On top of all this, I just didn't feel that connected to Earth in the first place. My Shepard was born in ships, he grew up travelling from system to system, visiting all the colonies under the banner of the Systems Alliance. He probably had more connection to the fleets being destroyed in orbit than to the ground under his feet. He must have forged stronger relationships with the civilians that fought by his side in Elysium than to anyone on Earth.

I didn't feel like I took Earth back, because I wasn't working towards taking Earth back. Which is also why the ending hit me so hard. I know there are some versions going around that the galaxy isn't in such a bad shape after all, that the relays can either be rebuilt or weren't all that important in the first place. But when I finished the game, all I could think was that all my effort to unite the galaxy and save everyone was undone because I had just cut off every system from each other. You can't have unity when everyone is isolated.

[indyracing]

Allan Schumacher wrote...


For example, you say that seeing the scenes of Drell, Krogan, etc. doing awesome things would help you feel like you are taking back Earth.  My question for you is: Would the feeling of taking back Earth felt significantly different if the kickass scenes you would have liked to have seen with the various races still existed but just with humans.

i.e. Is the lack of feeling of taking back Earth more due to a general lack of content (show the fight), or more due to the lack of seeing the combined forces.

First question:

This kind of goes along with our choices not mattering at the end.

If I got everyone on my side (which, in my playthrough, I did - Krogans, Turians, Quarians, Geth, Asari, the Salarian STC or whatever it's called, etc), I would expect to see each of them fighting for Earth.  If I lost a race (let's say the Quarians), I would expect to see everyone but the Quarians fighting.

Any scenes involved at the "last battle" should actually reflect who's at the last battle.  I'm sure that's more animations and more costs, but I expect one animated cutscene per mission throughout the game could have been cut (there were way too many conversation cutscenes I had no input on throughout the game, and shockingly few cutscenes at the finale of the trilogy, IMO) without losing much, if any, quality throughout (and in my case I would have loved to PLAY so many of the things I saw Shepard do in cutscenes - all through the game).

Second question:

My lack of feeling I took back Earth is that no matter what I do, I destroy the Mass Relays.  In Arrival, destroying the Mass Relay destroyed all life in the system.  That leads me to a very simple conclusion....

[Kenshen]

Did we take back Earth? I mean with what we got we don't know if Earth really survived.

The whole mission was lacking imo. I didn't have a problem with the combat parts like protecting the missles that was intense. However what happened too all my friends who were too have my back? All those war assets I gathered up must have stayed in space or accidently took a wrong turn in Albuquerue and ended up on Mars cause really you never see them except coming through the relay.

ME2 had me all excited for taking back Earth with the specialist and selecting squad leaders. I was fully expecting that with the final mission but nope and too me that was such a waste. yeah ME2 was pretty easy to get a flawless run but I am sure there are things that could have been done to change that in ME3. As I have seen in so many other threads on this board there were chances to bring in crew and former crewmates on that mission that never happened and again such a huge miss in my book.

I didn't like the FOB part it just didn't fit. Where were all the reaper units and why weren't they attacking our freshly made base right in the middle of a war zone? I did like the good byes from Garrus and Liara but I felt those could have been done earlier. I won't even mention the actual ending since that has been beat to near death already.

[ahandsomeshark]

Sil wrote...

@Allan

I think the problem was more that that battle against the reaper felt like the beginning of a long battle to defeat the reapers rather than the final fight

this. I spent most of priority earth thinking the real ending mission was just about to begin. Even up to the conversation with TIM I was thinking, okay here it comes here's the real mission where I'm making tactical decisions and putting everything we know about the reapers together.

[Cadeym]

We managed to take back Earth? I only ever got the impression that we took back a few streets at best.....

Modifié par Mouseraider, 18 avril 2012 - 02:36 .

[Naugi]

indyracing wrote...

Any scenes involved at the "last battle" should actually reflect who's at the last battle.  I'm sure that's more animations and more costs, but I expect one animated cutscene per mission throughout the game could have been cut

The game as a whole was far shorter than ME1 and ME2, I'm sure they could have managed this ... if they had wanted to / had the time / not gone down the artistic integrity route.

[Jestina]

No. The Krogan took back earth.

[Naugi]

Mouseraider wrote...

We managed to take back Earth? I only ever got the impression that we took back a few streets at best.....

This ^

[ahandsomeshark]

Mouseraider wrote...

We managed to take back Earth? I only ever got the impression that we took back a few streets at best.....

we were clearing a landing path for the doctor to land, he's going to time wimey all the reapers into a time lock. It was all part of a grand plan between Steven Moffat and bioware. We're going to find out in the next season of doctor who that the reapers are the one who will ask the question and cause silence to fall.

Or at least thats the theory I'm going to be peddling, I'll call it the indoctornated theory.

[Aaleel]

What did you do to take anything back. You were bleeding out and the kid/antagonist/enemy saved your life. Brought you up another elevator of light, and then LET you use the Crucible.

Where was the sense of accomplishment in that. You didn't take anything, it was given to you.

[FatalX7.0]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Fnork wrote...

No.

Reason ? Contrary to Rannoch and Tuchanka Earth only had 1 mission, in 1 city. Half your war assets are a total no show, you sort of hear what the rest of your team will be doing but you don't see anything of it let alone see anything of what your ME2 team is doing. Why not show Jack knocking over a brute ? Or Grunt tearing into ravagers ? Or the Rachni shredding husks and cannibals ?

Stuff like that would have been cool for sure, but would it have really helped contribute to the idea of taking back Earth if you saw that sort of stuff as ancillary content that was built around what is already there (i.e. not additional missions).

Fans would have enjoyed it for sure, but I'm not sure it would have contributed much to the question of "Do you feel like you took back Earth?"

Yes, it would have. It shows everything we put together, all the people we gathered and the team we've come to know over the last 5 years. It shows that what we did actually mattered.

Seeing our War Assets in action, seeing our team fighting together, kicking ass, is the kind of emotional impact that people really want.

Just imagining the Rachni fighting, or the Turians and Krogans fighting together, protecting each other, all the races working together. It gives me goosebumps and makes me feel damn proud.

Modifié par FatalX7.0, 18 avril 2012 - 02:37 .

[indyracing]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Johcande XX wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

aliengmr1 wrote...

Seeing as how I dropped the Citadel on it, no. Or was that twitterfied? I also stranded the great armada I brought with me. Trading one war for another I guess. Let me guess, twitterfied?

Would have been neat to see these things in the game instead of having to follow twitter to get an explanation for the ending.

My expectation is that things that are commented on on twitter and in interviews like Patrick's, are the types of things that will be included in the ending DLC.  I think some fans have just been particularly insistent on knowing the situation now rather than waiting for it.

  No offense, but we paid for it now.  

I'm confused by this statement. 

I don't really see how you are confused by this statement.

Many things were promised by Bioware employees pre-launch.  I could list them, but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.  Basically, many things were promised TO happen, and didn't (closure, decisions mattering, differing endings, etc.), and some things were explicitly said to NOT happen, yet did (no A, B or C choice).

So when those things weren't (or were!) included in the game, we feel cheated.  We paid for the game, were given expectations by both explicit quotes from those in charge of making the game and implicit promises we would naturally derive from both past Bioware games in general and pass Mass Effect games specifically, and those were not lived up to.

Some of them *may* be given to us free in a few months, but we "paid for it now".

[Naugi]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Yes, it would have. It shows everything we put together, all the people we gathered and the team we've come to know over the last 5 years. It shows that what we did actually mattered.

Seeing our War Assets in action, seeing our team fighting together, kicking ass, is the kind of emotional impact that people really want.

Just imagining the Rachni fighting, or the Turians and Krogans fighting together, protecting each other, all the races working together. It gives me goosebumps and makes me feel damn proud.

Well said.

What worries me is that the Bioware employee doesnt get this. Ok, no offence Allan and I know you're not involved with ME directly, but seriously ... how can you not get this??

[Icinix]

The more I think about it as well, I think the lead up was gone. The races you had united weren't there to take Earth back, they could care less, their own worlds are more important than Earth.

It was the whole reason for going to Earth was because of the Crucible / Citadel.

Were the Citadel not at Earth (and personally I wish it wasn't, the whole Earth thing felt very forced and at odds with the rest of the 3 games) - Earth would have been just another world the Reapers were reaping. As such you only went there to get to the citadel and only landed on the planet to use the conduit.

[Mystiq6]

Why is it I write these elaborate responses and the one-sentence replies get the most air time?

[ahandsomeshark]

Naugi wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Yes, it would have. It shows everything we put together, all the people we gathered and the team we've come to know over the last 5 years. It shows that what we did actually mattered.

Seeing our War Assets in action, seeing our team fighting together, kicking ass, is the kind of emotional impact that people really want.

Just imagining the Rachni fighting, or the Turians and Krogans fighting together, protecting each other, all the races working together. It gives me goosebumps and makes me feel damn proud.

Well said.

What worries me is that the Bioware employee doesnt get this. Ok, no offence Allan and I know you're not involved with ME directly, but seriously ... how can you not get this??

I don't think he's not getting anything, I think he's asking for explicit clarification rather than assuming. which is probably a really good thing. Assuming people will "get" things is how we end up with...starchild.

[ahandsomeshark]

Icinix wrote...

The more I think about it as well, I think the lead up was gone. The races you had united weren't there to take Earth back, they could care less, their own worlds are more important than Earth.

It was the whole reason for going to Earth was because of the Crucible / Citadel.

Were the Citadel not at Earth (and personally I wish it wasn't, the whole Earth thing felt very forced and at odds with the rest of the 3 games) - Earth would have been just another world the Reapers were reaping. As such you only went there to get to the citadel and only landed on the planet to use the conduit.

yeah, the whole narrative becomes a mess at this point. It's hard to figure out what the agency is behind anything happening.

[ArchedAlbatross]

xefiroEA wrote...

First, I want to thank Allan for following this thread so closely. It's nice to have a conversation.

Second that.

As for myself, I didn't really feel like I took back Earth, but I think that has more to do with my mind set. For me, and extension for my paragon spacer war hero Shepard, ME3 was never about taking Earth back. To be perfectly honest, I always felt that was tacked on to the game to boost sales, to get people who didn't know the franchise to pick it up.

While I can agree with a certain amount of your statement I think it comes down to a matter of perspective. I played through as an Earthborn, Ruthless, Rengade. Seeing Earth in ME3 was awesome to me because I couldn't wait to see what the writers and artists had dreamed up for what Earth would look like when my great, great, great, great grandchildren are its inhabitants. I also felt like my Shepard's goal was to protect the planet that he had been born on, at all costs no matter the losses, and he would kill anyone who stood in his way. 

In fact, I did that multiple times in all the games. I killed Wrex cause he wanted to stop me from carrying out my mission, I shot Major Kyle, I shot Conrad Verner in the foot for being an idiot, I shot the Batarians for being slavers, I Sparta kicked a man out of a skyscraper because he wouldn't help me, I shot Mordin in the back, literally in the back, I figuratively stabbed the Krogan in the back. You get the picture. To me, taking Earth back was the priority because it was where the Reapers were strongest. It was my belief that if the combined forces of the galaxy could destroy the Reaper fleet abover Earth, then by golly we could march on into every other system in the galaxy and do the same. 

I guess what I am trying to say is that I don't think you are wrong, but I don't think that I am either. I think that is the beauty of the game. It all meant something different to everyone and in the end, no one was able to have a fufilled sense of accomplishment because of how poorly the ending brought everything together. 

[Tombfyre09]

Nope. I made everything worse. I set back galactic civilization and earth who knows how far. I made my shepard a champion of that galactic civilization. His goal was to treat every race the same... HUMANS and EARTH included. Earth is just one island in the sea. I didn't care as much about earth as the game wanted me to. I cared equally for every other home world out there. Thats how my mostly paragon shepard was played.

[the red boon]

No I did not take back earth but I did meet a star child who gave me 3 predetermined endings. A more accurate slogan of ME3, "Meet the mysterious star child." Man that would've brought the crowds before release.