663 réponses à ce sujet

[ogj835]

ArchedAlbatross wrote...

Mystiq6 wrote...

I just want to give props to Albatross for starting this thread. I think it's probably the most important thread on these forums because it says what our expectations will be in the Extended Cut DLC and BioWare should be following this thread very closely.

Well thank you. I will arbitrarily award myself +5 internets.

Yeah, have to say this thread and all the input deserves some serious consideration on BioWare's part. Can not stress how much I hope BioWare does right by us before everything is said and done for ME3. Unfortunately, with the very small amount of reaction they have publicly stated, my trust in the matter is not so optimistic.

Modifié par ogj835, 18 avril 2012 - 04:31 .

[tg0618]

No. I didn't "Retake Earth".

I "re-enacted" The Death-Star destroying Alderaan, only on a galactic scale, thanks to the Mass Relays being destroyed. 

[DraziusA]

formshifter wrote...

No. I do not feel like I took back Earth. I did not fight with my allies, or see them fight (beyond one cut scene where they showed up for maybe 20 seconds or less. . . and a lot of them didn't even show up).

Where was Normandy doing her awesome bombing runs while flanked by fighter squadrons?!
 

Good point. In fact, I seem to remember a specific conversation with a certain Admiral who said that the Normandy is fast, and can move in and hit a target and move out quickly.

Instead, Joker and company flee a glowing red/blue/green light and end up in Paradise, all the while seemingly thinking that Shepard is dead. (Oh well, he/she wasn't that important to me I guess.)

Honestly, the whole ending just REEKS of missed opportunities. The sad thing is, when the new "clarifications" come out in 2-3 months or whenever, I really don't think many people will care anymore. We will have moved on to other games by then.

[ninjaNumber1]

ArchedAlbatross wrote...

 So I have been brooding on the ending just as much as anyone else and have been trying to summarize why I feel complete dissappointment in the way the game ended. Then it hit me in the face. The tag line that was thrown around like crazy leading up to the launch of the game "Take Earth Back." I bought the game because I loved the first two and wanted to conclude one of the most epic journey's in video game history by taking back Earth and ridding the ME galaxy of the Reaper threat. So here I am, finished with the game, with no desire to play through ME3 again (which was one of the greatest selling points of the previous two games) and all because I feel like I failed to do the one thing that the game promised I would do. 

No amount of "clarification" will fix this, not unless it includes me waking up from my laser induced coma and kicking multiple baddies in the face (preferrably Suicide mission style). 

Addendum: List your #1 reason why in as few words as possible. 

Well you clearly did save earth. Whether you did it coherently obeying the laws of a narrative.... well that it probably a big NO,

But yea, you definitely did, if you did things right, save the earth and take it back.

[ogj835]

ninjaNumber1 wrote...

ArchedAlbatross wrote...

 So I have been brooding on the ending just as much as anyone else and have been trying to summarize why I feel complete dissappointment in the way the game ended. Then it hit me in the face. The tag line that was thrown around like crazy leading up to the launch of the game "Take Earth Back." I bought the game because I loved the first two and wanted to conclude one of the most epic journey's in video game history by taking back Earth and ridding the ME galaxy of the Reaper threat. So here I am, finished with the game, with no desire to play through ME3 again (which was one of the greatest selling points of the previous two games) and all because I feel like I failed to do the one thing that the game promised I would do. 

No amount of "clarification" will fix this, not unless it includes me waking up from my laser induced coma and kicking multiple baddies in the face (preferrably Suicide mission style). 

Addendum: List your #1 reason why in as few words as possible. 

Well you clearly did save earth. Whether you did it coherently obeying the laws of a narrative.... well that it probably a big NO,

But yea, you definitely did, if you did things right, save the earth and take it back.

Mouseraider wrote...

We managed to take back Earth? I only ever got the impression that we took back a few streets at best.....

[alterIncogn1T0]

So after reading the majority of the posts on this forum, I can safely say that adding more visual content into Priority: Earth will help improve the overall opinion about the ending. At least, as far as the final mission is concerned.

And I happen to agree. That fact that more people found Tuchunka and Rannoch more gripping than Earth speaks mountains of words about how the writers approached the climax of the game. It would appear that the advertising slogan should have been "Take back Tuchunka and Rannoch, and make an appearance on Earth."

At this point, I believe that had the writers (not just Hudson and Walters, the WHOLE team) spent more time on how the final moments of ME3 were delivered, the endings would have been much more palatable. Sure, it wouldn't have made much more sense than they do now, but at least you can say "Well I suppose when you look at it with all the context around it, the endings can appear logical."

Also, the visual display of your war assets at work help reinforce the idea that all the pain and agony put into making species cooperate and unite did in fact pay off. Representing your war assets with numbers on a chart doesn't really do it for us. For example, there can be a scene where Shepard and his team are running through a bombed-out apartment complex. Suddenly, a swarm of Husks charge at them, If Shepard had the Rachni spared, they will fly to his rescue, clawing and skewering the Reaper forces until none left standing. Otherwise, Shepard will have to fight the Husks and hope to survive long enough for allied support. These are small additions that are easy to work into the mission, but have the player thinking "Wow, if I didn't have the Rachni there, I'd been screwed."

And I also agree with a previous comment:

DraziusA wrote...

....The sad thing is, when the new "clarifications" come out in 2-3 months or whenever, I really don't think many people will care anymore. We will have moved on to other games by then.

If BioWare wants to REALLY keep our attention, the Extended Cut DLC will have to help make our work matter, make "Taking Back Earth" matter, and take extra care to cover up as much of the plotholes as they possibly can. Otherwise, Mass Effect 3 will forever be known as "The One That Got Away".

[Valorefane Dragonwinter]

MrNighttime wrote...

I will say that the part where the
entire fleet Shepard had gathered warped into the Sol system ( which IMO
opinion was one of the most EPIC moments in any form of entertainment
ever--it seemed to go on for several minutes as I said "hell yeah") made
me think I was gonna retake Earth---

As the Great Maxwell Smart said:
Missed it by *that* much

That part was incredible and was (I thought on my first play through) setting the stage for even more amazing stuff on the ground.
Then I landed.
"Where the blazes is everyone?"

I've done three play throughs of ME3.  My first one had about 3500-ish EMS.  Second had about 5500-ish, and my last one had over 7300 EMS.
All three of them played out EXACTLY the same from the moment I landed on Earth.
Where are all these people I worked my @ss off to get?

The goodbye thing was a nice touch, up to a point.  But it would have been SO MUCH BETTER if I'd seen even some of them fighting.  I mean, some of them said they were down on Earth fighting (I know Kasumi was still w/ the Shield Fleet), so where the heck are they?  Why wouldn't they be with the rest of Hammer, fighting to the beam?

Also... with each play through I've done, both people who ran to the beam with me and died (according to radio transmissions before taking the beam up to the Citadel) get off the Normandy when it crashes in Never Never Land. 

 

[gwalchmai18]

DrowVampyre wrote...

If by "took back" you mean "turned into a lifeless ball of ash or a field of space debris", then yes.

Exactly.

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant. -- Publius Tacitus

[Fox544]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

I know there are some that found Priority: Earth to just kind of fall flat anyways. Trying your best, do people feel that they didn't take Earth back because of the bleakness of the ending and the sequence with the Catalyst, or because you were underwhelmed by the mission.

No doubt some feel both combined into the lack of any "Take Back Earth" feeling. I guess I'm also curious if people felt the ending made people reflect on the Priority: Earth mission more negatively (people are less forgiving when in an upset mood)


My thoughts:
Priority Earth had some good parts and I think I let myself get caught up in the crescendo. The waves of guys didn't bother me since it made sense to me to be fighting hordes of guys. I did enjoy the sequence at the missiles and found it quite challenging as I pretty much blew all my medi-gels trying to survive it. Though I don't feel the ending really stood out in any way compared to other levels, which I can see being some of the expectations people would have had. The climaxes of Rannoch and Tuchanka still stand out to me as being the most memorable and moving parts of the game, including their conclusions, and Earth wasn't quite like that.

As for the Catalyst and endgame, the best there is is a high EMS ending that shows the Reapers either leaving or getting destroyed, meaning that we probably did take Earth back, but the openness of the ending doesn't explicitly remove any uncertainty.

I did feel like I took back earth...just I didn't have a "WOO PARTY WE TOOK BACK EARTH!" more like a "I did it...but it cost a lot to do so". Just how I felt.

I think this pretty much sums up the way I felt.

For my Shepard, if he is telling the truth, which I believe he is, then no option in front of me accomplishes my goal to stop "The Cycle". If you couldn't tell, I really hate the ending............

Why wouldn't the Control ending break the cycle? I've seen people write that Synthesis wouldn't necessarily prevent the creation of new synthetics, but if Shepard truly maintains the ability to control the Reapers, then they bend to his will. It would seem like the cycle would only not break if Shepard decided he wanted to go and do some Reaping, which seems unlike Shepard (especially Paragon Shepard).




Cheers.

Allan


EDIT:
I had to add this:

1: A D-Day type invasion into London. Call it the Normandy Invasion if you will

Well played.  Opportunity missed by the writers there for sure! 

Awesome question. Yes I feel the poor ending colored my opinion but looking back with weeks between now and when I finished I can safely say the whole mission missed many key oppertunities. The whole mission  was lack luster and felt phoned in when compared to Tuchanka and Thessia. It never feels like we fought to take it back as much as just snuck in through the back door.

A D-Day type invasion would have made it feel more like a desperate struggle. The closest thing to desperate was the horde at the missle launchers which I completed by pushing 2 buttons (charge and nova). Horde mode is just too simplistic for a mission that has been built up over 3 games.

I just felt like all the action took place when we arn't around in cut scenes.

[tschamp]

No.

My Shepard would have found way to defeat the Reaper without anyone else having to die, including himself. Would he sacrifice himself for it? Sure, but not at the cost of forcing other to his will which is what all three endings are saying you have to do. My Shepard is about saving life and not forcing his vision of the universe on the other races. My Shepard would not cause the death of a whole race or a teammate, Geth and Edi. My Shepard wouldn't have force an evolution concept on the whole universe to be sythorganic(?). My Shepard would look at the Star Child and said,"Your an idiot."

Note: My Shepard would do "control" after what happen to TIM because he knew it was a trap.

Modifié par tschamp, 18 avril 2012 - 05:48 .

[ediskrad327]

no, not only did i doom Earth to have an overpopulation by other races from the fleets, i also doomed the entire Galaxy i tried to save, a lot ofAngry krogan will be on earth...and it will not be pretty :'(

[NickelToe]

Based on the ending...

No, I took back the Color Wheel.

[MentalKase]

I found the hole "taking back earth" a little dissappointing. We never got to see the different units we brought into the fight actually fight. I would have loved to see a brute be swarmed by vorcha, or geth fighters tangling with reapers. The volus bombing fleet running fire support. Anyway you get the picture.

[frypan]

I felt the same in that the ending left me picking holes in everything, but the warning bells went off earlier when I saw the turret on the bridge while talking to the crew. It pulled me out of the moment which shuld have been fully devoted to the final moments with the characters I spent so much time with.

Comparing the feeling to the end of ME2 is a good contrast for many reasons. The final battles in ME2 felt epic even though they were much smaller in focus with just a small crew, and with lesser stakes. I was emotionally engaged with the idea of fighting through the collector base all the way. Even after the umpteenth playthrough ME2 still has that effect.

Along those lines, the scope of the battle wasn't so much the problem as the lack of an emotional hook to draw me in. I could have been inside a relatively small environment and still felt like the scale was great. Not sure why it was missing this time.

Makes me think of the final battle in the movie Excalibur. There were hardly any characters in that and it felt epic - especially the moments with Lancelot, Arthur and Mordred. Ah, I tear up just thinking about it..

[Allan Schumacher]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Fans would have enjoyed it for sure, but I'm not sure it would have contributed much to the question of "Do you feel like you took back Earth?"

Yes, it would have. It shows everything we put together, all the people we gathered and the team we've come to know over the last 5 years. It shows that what we did actually mattered.

Seeing our War Assets in action, seeing our team fighting together, kicking ass, is the kind of emotional impact that people really want.

Just imagining the Rachni fighting, or the Turians and Krogans fighting together, protecting each other, all the races working together. It gives me goosebumps and makes me feel damn proud.

Okay.  Just so I'm clear, would Priority: Earth felt like you were "taking back Earth" if you happened to see the Rachni, Turians, and Krogans all fighting along side you in the levels provided (i.e. no new levels, no new cutscene).

I think it's a hard question personally haha (and one that we can't really answer definitively unfortunately since it's not the case of what's in the game)

[Eterna]

Yes. Because the reapers are gone. Earth is fine. Anyone who disagree's is just being over emotional.

[Eterna]

shnellegaming wrote...

Nope I didn't take Earth Back. And if Arrival is to be believed I actually blew Earth up. As far as I'm concerned we didn't beat the Reapers. I did not see a smoking Harbringer corpse at the end.

The relays didn't explode like they did in arrival, this has been confirmed. 

[Allan Schumacher]

indyracing wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Johcande XX wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

aliengmr1 wrote...

Seeing as how I dropped the Citadel on it, no. Or was that twitterfied? I also stranded the great armada I brought with me. Trading one war for another I guess. Let me guess, twitterfied?

Would have been neat to see these things in the game instead of having to follow twitter to get an explanation for the ending.

My expectation is that things that are commented on on twitter and in interviews like Patrick's, are the types of things that will be included in the ending DLC.  I think some fans have just been particularly insistent on knowing the situation now rather than waiting for it.

  No offense, but we paid for it now.  

I'm confused by this statement. 

I don't really see how you are confused by this statement.

Many things were promised by Bioware employees pre-launch.  I could list them, but I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.  Basically, many things were promised TO happen, and didn't (closure, decisions mattering, differing endings, etc.), and some things were explicitly said to NOT happen, yet did (no A, B or C choice).

So when those things weren't (or were!) included in the game, we feel cheated.  We paid for the game, were given expectations by both explicit quotes from those in charge of making the game and implicit promises we would naturally derive from both past Bioware games in general and pass Mass Effect games specifically, and those were not lived up to.

Some of them *may* be given to us free in a few months, but we "paid for it now".

I understand.  Where i'm confused is I'm not sure why that's a response to me saying that I think comments such as Patrick's in the PAX interview are an indicator of what types of things we can expect to see in the ending, in response to someone saying they'd like to see it in game instead of on twitter.

I didn't think my statement made any sort of qualitative statement as to the opinions people had were either good or bad.  I guess it's a case of some meaning being lost in text.

/shrug

[frypan]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Okay.  Just so I'm clear, would Priority: Earth felt like you were "taking back Earth" if you happened to see the Rachni, Turians, and Krogans all fighting along side you in the levels provided (i.e. no new levels, no new cutscene).

I think it's a hard question personally haha (and one that we can't really answer definitively unfortunately since it's not the case of what's in the game)

I dont think its enough to simply see them fighting alongside - they have to be doing something meaningful in terms of the themes running through the games - whether that is sacrifice, co-operation, courage or whatnot. Scenes of killing often lack meaning in and of themselves - hence the potted histories Homer attached to each death in the Iliad. Other ancient authors also understood this and often provided vignettes in combat that enunciated what they were trying to say, such as Livy's description of heroic deaths that adhered to Roman aristocratic codes.
 
To bring that back on topic, the scenes would need to make a player say, "there is an example of what I have been fighting for". For example, if a Turian and Human were to die alonside each other. Similarly a scene that made the player say,  "look at the strength in the Krogan, I'm glad I saved them and Mordin's death was worth it." Those things add personal meaning to what is visually just more combat, of which we have plenty in the gameplay itself.

[Allan Schumacher]

Naugi wrote...

ahandsomeshark wrote...

I don't think he's not getting anything, I think he's asking for explicit clarification rather than assuming. which is probably a really good thing. Assuming people will "get" things is how we end up with...starchild.

I dont think he's asking for clarification, he genuinely seems to think scenes showing our forces taking back earth wouldnt have helped us feel like we took back earth. Hell, writing it that way makes it sound crazy.

I think you're being kind, and that's nice n all, but theres something very wrong with saying: I'm not sure it would have contributed much to the question of "Do you feel like you took back Earth?"

The reason why I'm asking these questions in a directed way is because this topic is related to the expectations that some fans felt were established based on the Take Earth Back prerelease trailer.  By the way a lot of people were talking, if we had scenes like that but actually in game, it would have helped contribute to the perception of taking back earth.  Which is interesting because you don't actually see any alien species fighting along side humans in that trailer.  Not even one of Shepard's companions (only Ashley).

So there was a bit of a disconnect between what different groups of people are saying, and I'm not saying if any perspective is more correct or not.  A lot of other people talked about how they would have liked more missions and stuff like that, to help put it on par with Rannoch and Tuchanka.

My leaning is that "more content" would have contributed to the feeling more, but there are certainly a large number of people that make me think that "we don't need more content, just greater reflection of our allies" might be a larger contributor.

[Drogonion]

I went red, and felt like a genocidal betrayer.  This was after I tried everything to kill the starchild-reaper.  I never believed a word the starchild said from the start, and the game railroaded me into the "choices."  I was pissed.

Modifié par Drogonion, 18 avril 2012 - 06:23 .

[bobafett007]

At this point I don't even care if I like or agree with the ending. The biggest thing that bothers me is all the continuity errors. The ending can suck as long as it sucks with proper continuity. They can keep there artistic integrity, just don't leave me saying "Why Joker?! Why?!!!!!" Screw Earth, I just care about my team.

Also, based on what I'm seeing on the forums, I don't think the DA team should be punished cause we are upset over something the ME team did. I will still buy DA3.

[Eterna]

Allan, while I don't think that having cutscenes of the rachni or Turians would have made it feel like we were taking back earth; it would have added more to that final battle. Supposedly we have the whole galaxy with us, but for the most part we only see humans.

It wouldn't have really added to the feeling of taking back earth, but it certainly would have made the ending have a more climatic feel and could have made the players feel that the whole galaxy was in fact there fighting on earth.

[hammyhamstersy]

Definitely not ...

I don't understand why the Earth mission did not have a few areas where you are fighting in a big battle field.  Similar to say Palaven but with more fighting going on between reapers and everything else.  All I seem to remember is standing next to a few trucks and fighting a few banshees and brutes.  It lacks the feeling that we're fighting a war that is epic in scale.   

Also if the beam to the citadel was so important you'd think that the reaper would set up more static defenses like turrets or bunkers.  It should have been a storm the fortress type of thing.    

I also hated how on the citadel after you get beamed up there's only ONE path to go.... and that one path is like a few meters.

[bobafett007]

frypan wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Okay.  Just so I'm clear, would Priority: Earth felt like you were "taking back Earth" if you happened to see the Rachni, Turians, and Krogans all fighting along side you in the levels provided (i.e. no new levels, no new cutscene).

I think it's a hard question personally haha (and one that we can't really answer definitively unfortunately since it's not the case of what's in the game)

I dont think its enough to simply see them fighting alongside - they have to be doing something meaningful in terms of the themes running through the games - whether that is sacrifice, co-operation, courage or whatnot. Scenes of killing often lack meaning in and of themselves - hence the potted histories Homer attached to each death in the Iliad. Other ancient authors also understood this and often provided vignettes in combat that enunciated what they were trying to say, such as Livy's description of heroic deaths that adhered to Roman aristocratic codes.
 
To bring that back on topic, the scenes would need to make a player say, "there is an example of what I have been fighting for". For example, if a Turian and Human were to die alonside each other. Similarly a scene that made the player say,  "look at the strength in the Krogan, I'm glad I saved them and Mordin's death was worth it." Those things add personal meaning to what is visually just more combat, of which we have plenty in the gameplay itself.

This. Beautifly stated!