664 réponses à ce sujet

[Omega Torsk]

I have no freaking idea if I took back Earth. The game doesn't tell me. It just inexplicably stops.

Apparently, the majority of the people posting are having the same problem as well... <_<

[CapnManx]

GBJ13 wrote...

Wow, so this is a wall of text. Sorry about that.

I think they're two different questions.   The presence of the war assets is about expressing player's choice throughout the game.  The absence of any real difference in how the battle plays out undercut any sense of player agency.   If you kept the Destiny Ascension, it's the same as if you didn't. If Wrex is commanding the Krogan, they fight exactly the same as if Wreav was. etc.  It would be akin to being able to send anybody to do any job in the Suicide mission and have the result come out the same.

The issue regarding "Take Back Earth" for me is about the limited nature of the Earth as a hub world.  There's really one mission on Earth.  This is the first time as a ME player I get to see the what future Earth looks like. Is it like Star Trek? Blade runner? Dark Angel? Jetsons? I have no idea. I'd guess STar Trek based on the few scenes I have before the Reapers attack, but really, I don't know anything. That's a letdown.

From a mission standpoint, Priority Earth doesn't involve a lot of diversity.  Compared with ME2's suicide mission, I don't make a lot of calls and I don't have different objectives.  Creating a beachead on the moon?  Flanking the Reapers? Saving a resistance cell which has vital info? Nope.  I have a Pickett's charge to teleporter to the Reaper's weakspot.  The Reapers become almost Bond-esq. 

Honestly, I think it would be a tough thing to fix in SP. MP might be an easier option. You could create some Sol system/Earthy like battlefields. The Moon, Mars, etc. Mars would be especially easy since you've already designed it for SP).   That might give players a better sense of Retaking Earth without altering the SP structure.   If you had the time to fix it in single player, I'd suggest adding the following:
1. Moon mission with EDI- The moon is EDi's birthplace and where ME1 Shepherd killed/shut her down.  The view of Shepherd looking down on the Moon the way Victus did in the  first act would be fantastic.   Lots of interesting stuff there to play with, I'd imagine.
2. Mars- Rescusing some additional Prothean technology that would give us additional info on the Crucible.  It might even give us some answers why the Reapers are just creating a magical teleportation beam to their achilles heel...
3. Some Earth Location- A clash with Harbinger (doesn't have to end in victory). He's such a well-built up villain. . It seems ashame to waste him.

Just my humble opinion, best of luck with the new DLC.

I'm with him ^

I don't feel like I 'took Earth back' because that wasn't really our objective; it was just one more battlefield I had to cross to get to where I needed to be (which wasn't even on Earth)  The huge assault was just about reaching the beam; then the Reapers either fall over or fly away.  I didn't have to 'take it' from anybody.

Side missions, indications of battlefronts elsewhere on the planet, other staging areas and gathering points for allied forces, these would all have helped; as would MP content set in Sol.

Really, what it could do with is some sort of side stories; where you play a resistance fighters on Earth.

[mirage2154]

When I gone through everything they said about ME before it's release, well I am just speechless.

[Element Zero]

I don't feel like I have taken back anything. The Reapers may have left the galaxy in a better state than I left it. I'm sure they're trying to undo that perception with the DLC, but the fact that so many feel that way shows that the ending is a failure.

My assets meant nothing, tangibly, at least. The mission was way too short and very underwhelming. Where the hell were any of my allies? We rolled out of the FOB with APCs and soldiers. They all disappeared, literally, 90 seconds into the mission. Three soldiers should not be able (or expected) to take back a city (or planet).

Seeing my allies fighting and dying alongside me in the fight through London would've helped. Instead, they vanish, only to conveniently reappear once the horde-mode fight was over. WTH? Were they hiding? "We were held up/Cut-off/Whatever" BS Anderson gave was weak.

The ending murdered the series in a 10 minute span.

Modifié par tallrickruush, 18 avril 2012 - 09:17 .

[Delivery]

Manton-X2 wrote...

Actually, I was feeling pretty freakin' awesome heading into the final run at the magic beam of light. I saved four entire species (Quarians, Geth, Krogan and Rachni), I brokered peace and stopped a 300 year long war, I gave a species back its homeworld, I solidified Earth's place in the galactic hierarchy and showed an entire galaxy what humanity was worth, took down the biggest terrorist organization in history and I did all that while bringing together the largest military fleet in the history of the galaxy.

And then it all went to hell and in the space of 10 minutes I felt like I hadn't done a single thing. So much for that journey.

Excatly!

[DamonD7]

I've never actually seen the Take Back Earth trailer. Apart from the London teaser, I haven't seen any of the videoes or even any of the talking heads style previews.

I went into ME3 very spoiler-free. I always find that I enjoy games (and films and books etc) when I know little past the surface details about them. I didn't even know that characters like Mordin or Jack were coming back, for instance, though I hoped they would.

So my disappointment wasn't down to any preconceptions. Apart from those set up, you could argue, in ME1 and ME2.
And it's a tough task for a third game in a series to ditch the previous direction.

The key thing in the question is feel - you can rationalise a lot of things and introduce/clarify things afterwards, but what's the gut reaction of the players after those credits roll? You want it to feel positive towards the game, even if the ending is bittersweet or bad you want people thinking "that was an great game and I want to play it again".

Something like 95% of the people posting here in this thread didn't have that gut reaction positivity. In their eyes, whatever was being aimed at, missed.

Thanks to Allan for contributing here, it's appreciated. I hope others read this thread as well, particularly those that are actually hands-on developing the Extended Cut.

Modifié par DamonD7, 18 avril 2012 - 10:59 .

[Delivery]

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

FatalX7.0 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Okay.  Just so I'm clear, would Priority: Earth felt like you were "taking back Earth" if you happened to see the Rachni, Turians, and Krogans all fighting along side you in the levels provided (i.e. no new levels, no new cutscene).

I think it's a hard question personally haha (and one that we can't really answer definitively unfortunately since it's not the case of what's in the game)

So wait..

Do you mean, like..actually seeing other races fighting as you play?

This seems hard to get into words. I think I know what you mean, but I've never thought about it like that. That would be cool, though, having your war assets actually fight with you.

It could also bring about a better sense of urgency, make things seem more lively.

Yeah.  I'm just examining if lack of seeing our allied forces is really two separate (but related/complementary) issues, or if it is really the same issue.

What I meant by my example was more along the lines of: "If you didn't receive an additional second of extra content, whether it be playable or in a cutscene, but you saw your allies fighting at various points during the level, is that something that makes you feel more like you're taking Earth back, or is it just something that's awesome to see?"

Alright, I see.

Yes, even if we do not recieve extra content or cutscenes, seeing my allies fighting during the level will make me feel as if we are actually taking back Earth. I'm seeing the people I worked for, the people that I united, fighting together against the threat we've been preparing against for three games. It makes me feel like everything I did mattered to some extent and that it is actually doing something. But, while some extra NPC's on the battlefield may be a nice little touch, that's just what it is, a little touch.


The issue is that we don't see our war assets at all, in any form.


I'm taking this from the Deviant Art of Arkis.

"We want to see those War Assets fighting. The Destiny Ascension
obliterating a Reaper with it's main gun before being swarmed over by
Destroyers, the Geth armada pulling along side to save her. The Salarian
STG calling in a biotic artillery strike on cluster of Reaper troops.
Wrex and Garrus, on the front sharing a  stern moment in cover, before
nodding to each other, brothers in arms, before charging over the
barricade. Back to back, they face down hordes of husks, Wrex shouting
defiantly, "You think you can take our future!? You think YOU CAN TAKE
MY CHILDREN?!"
We want to see the Quarian flotilla scrambling, all
guns blazing, trying desperately to form a battleline, as one of the
admirals quietly turns to their crew, signalling his ship all ahead
full. "For the homeworld. Keela..." their words cut off as the live-ship
rams a Reaper, exploding spectacularly and damaging two others. We want
to see the Normandy frantically weaving through the wreckage, Joker and
EDI yelling warnings to one another as the fleets explode around them.
We want Tali leading a charge of Geth Primes against a Cannibal gun
line. Rachni drones swarming over a Reaper Destroyer by the thousands,
pulling it apart from the inside. We want to see Grunt wrestle a brute
to the ground and unload his shotgun into his head.

Happy or sad, we just want to see those decisions play out. We want to
see that what we did mattered. And as the battle unfolds, you are left
with the Choice. Do you think you have enough? As Shepard bleeds out,
watching all he/she loved go up in flames, do you take the risk?
Provided you have enough manpower, can you break the back of the Reaper
fleet, though at horrendous cost? Once the battle is over, and the truth
of what the Illusive Man discovered is revealed, the remaining
survivors get the word out that there is a way to disrupt the Reaper
signal, scatter the Reaper armies."


And of course, it's also about the emotional impact.

Just imagining scenes like that sends chills up my spine and makes me feel proud and accomplished.

But then it makes me feel very sad because that isn't what we had.

Omg. When i read this it chills me all over my body! This is what i wanted! Thank you for this pictures on my head.

[DirtySHISN0]

Personally I haven't liked humans since the first game so taking back earth didn't really matter to me.
Rannoch was more interesting.

[Silpheed58]

To everyone touting the, Earth isn't important to me. Well, that is a storytelling problem because Earth IS important, it is very important. Earth is the cradle of humanity, it is where we originated from and where we are most stable. Just about every human colonist has loved ones still on Earth, it is where our central governments are, and who our councilor reports too.

We may have colonies, but they are so fragile and are constantly decimated through out the games. Although it is not portrayed, Earth is always the home humanity can retreat too. Being that you start the game later in Shepard's career where you are always away from Earth and never go there til the End doesn't impress this well enough on to a player I know, but come on.

[Obsidian Gryphon]

I didn't feel I accomplished anyhing. Tis ashes at the end.

[Velocithon]

I didn't feel like I did anything.

The entire Priority Earth wasn't even about taking Earth back. It was about a small mission to take out a couple missile launchers, run to a beam, and open the Citadel arms. All during which we NEVER EVER see the massive fight, our War Assets in action, or any of the people we cared about.

It felt very small when it should've felt more meaningful.

[Elizabeth Lestrad]

I definitly have to echo the sentiment that I dont feel like I accomplished anything. No matter which of the three endings you choose the Reapers win so whether you take back Earth or not it doesnt matter, you can't have a good, victory ending where the bad guys get the last laugh...ever. It just doesnt work.

In a well written, heroic ending the battle would have turned and the fleet would have dished out a whole can of whoop-*** obliterating the Reapers in a resounding victory with Shephard at the helm. And lets face it the artifact would have been a giant freaking space cannon or something that disabled reaper weaponry or communication or something like we all kinda expected, not some "Lets see how bad we can screw over the supposed victors" device.

So no, I dont feel like I took back Earth.

Modifié par Elizabeth Lestrad, 18 avril 2012 - 01:44 .

[Trebor1969]

Nope

[Soda Master]

No, I don't feel like I took back Earth. Even not taking into account the fact that I screwed over the galaxy at the end. I had much more of an emotional connect to the missions on Tuchanka and Rannoch than I did on Earth, which was pretty much: Show up, shuttle down, talk to your teammates, then reable some missiles to stop the one little Reaper in your path, run to the beam to get shot by Harbinger.
Which, why didn't Shepard even TRY to dodge? If this was the first time Shepard had actually been personally shot at by a Reaper, this might have made a tiny bit of sense, but one of your previous mission revolved around exactly that premise: dodge the shots of an advancing Reaper. But then Harbinger has a beam advancing towards you and Shep's response is to throw up his/her hand like a protesting debutante?

[jumpingkaede]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Yeah.  I'm just examining if lack of seeing our allied forces is really two separate (but related/complementary) issues, or if it is really the same issue.

I think separate but related.  Seeing your war assets actually "at war" would give greater meaning (and be a possible solution) to a different problem: that the war assets mean nothing apart from being an arbitrary number.

Has anyone here played Infinite Undiscovery?  

It's an average JRPG that handled one thing very well IMO.  Let me explain so there's context.  In JRPGs, and many other games, you have a large team.  Infinite Undiscovery was a team of 12 (iirc), just like in ME3 you have a squad of potentially 8 + numerous ME2 NPCs.

Yet, in Priority: Earth... it's Shepard + 2.  What is everyone else doing?  Where are they?  Are they just having some coffee and watching extranet vids?   Where's Jack?  Miranda?  They're just offscreen somewhere doing their thing... I guess.

Infinite Undiscovery dealt with that problem in a very simple, but effective, way.  While your team of 4 was fighting its way through the "level", the other 8 characters were in two separate squads and fighting in the background.  So you'd see them fighting on a different level, or you'd approach a blocked door and one of the other squads would trigger the switch for you seamlessly so you could advance.  That way it's not just your team of 4 + 8 guys offscreen doing nothing (typical in most games).  It "felt" like a team of 12 (even though you could only control 4).  

That's what I expected from ME3.  I wanted to feel like a team of 8 or more.  Instead Priority: Earth is just Shepard + 2.

How much better could Priority: Earth have been?  Just envision a few of the following scenes (which could have all been done easily with the game engine).

- Shepard turns the corner and see a line of Brutes.  Suddenly, Grunt/Wrex/Wreav and a team of krogan charge in from the side with shotguns blasting, scattering all the Brutes but a few.  Standard fight.

- Shepard reaches a field of Ravagers.  Shepard shouts, "We need fire support!"  The air fills with the songs of Rachni as blasts of venom come raining down.  (Think Grissom Academy with the biotics on an upper level).

- As the hordes descend on the missile launcher, Shepard is slowly, slowly, being overwhelmed by more and more Reapers... until the rest of your team shows up.  Vega comes in, "Sorry I'm late, Loco!" or something similarly offensive (lol) and blasts a few.  Jahvik shows up soon after, Tali, EDI, all with just a one liner to let Shepard know that he isn't alone.  With their help, Shepard repels the Horde... and leads to the missile launching scene in ME3.  Also gives you an excuse to chat with your squad one more time even if it's just another one liner e.g., "This is it, isn't it, Shepard?"

- As Shepard races for the Citadel beam and Harbinger comes down, Jack + Samara + biotics are throwing up barriers everywhere they can to try and keep the heat off of Hammer.  Massive explosions where laser meets barrier and bodies flying everywhere suggest that they aren't working but you can have at least one barrier "hold".

...

/sigh

But that's not really taking back Earth.

Allan Schumacher wrote...

What I meant by my example was more along the lines of: "If you didn't receive an additional second of extra content, whether it be playable or in a cutscene, but you saw your allies fighting at various points during the level, is that something that makes you feel more like you're taking Earth back, or is it just something that's awesome to see?"

I think if I could have just one cutscene that would make me feel like I took back Earth it would be like the end of ME1.  Show someone like an Anderson (Hackett?) moving aside rubble on Earth to uncover a soldier (make it Ash/Kaiden/Vega I guess, a human).  Pan to show hundreds of similar soldiers/civilians doing the same thing.  Pan to all of London, blue skies, smoke, but no Reapers.  (Or dead Reapers in Destroy).

Modifié par jumpingkaede, 18 avril 2012 - 02:51 .

[Psye Shaar]

While I found the intensity to build up well through Priority: Earth, it could certainly have taken advantage of that through cutscene's of the various assets aquired throughout - Especially the ones that personally promised their assistance.

Based on EMS (as that's the obvious counter), some general cutscenes that would have been epic though:

- Rachni queen (or greatest rachni warriors) going up against a harvester
- Grunt and Wrex headbutting each other before charging a group of brutes, with the other Krogan around them fighting marauders/husks
- Samara taking on a banshee while other asari ping husks around like flies with biotics
- Turian fighter ships zipping between buildings attacking/distracting the Destroyers
- Salarian STG teams sweeping through reaper camps, killing the guards to rescue citizens/soldiers or to disrupt ground communications
- Kolyat (sp?) with an infiltrator moment like Thane to save someone's life
- Jack's biotic squad saving another ground squadron from incoming fire

These are just quick ideas off the top of my head, but the possibilities were endless.

So summarise, did I feel like I took back earth, or all the effort that went into gathering forces and gaining friends/trust was portrayed?

No, sadly I didn't.

I'm certainly intrigued as to what will be in the extended cut. I just hope it allows such an epic series to end in a manner befitting of it's own greatness.

[thefallen2far]

I felt the gameplay of "take back Earth" was closer to "take back Palavin's moon base" mission then "take back Rannoch" or "take back Tatchunka". Length, impact, wrting, decisions, videos... everything was better taking back the Krogan home world than Earth.

As for the war assets and their inclusion in the end.... the Earth mission itself was a covert opperation to a beam of light, so adding the war assets will help aesthetically please fans, but that's just candy coating. We did see the war assets when they were in space arrivng at Sol. You didn't see specifics, but you saw the Geth and the Quarians etc....

The only way I can see "take back Earth" feeling more like "taking back Earth" with War assets is an RTS minigame at the end. That would take way too long to do and not really fit with the rest of the game. The reason many people feel like they didn't take back earth was because you didn't. You didn't do anything to do that. You charged down a field and get shot. You fall down. Then Harbenger flies away. You didn't do that, he just flies away for no reason. You hoble to the beam where Anderson is activating the console. Tim gets in the way, but he has the same goal, to save Earth. So, you stop another guy with the same goal [and end up possibly doing the same thing anyway. You don't activate the elevator to the convoluted ending, it just happens. You are given choices of what to do.... and you don't argue or choose not to believe him.

I don't know where "take back earth" became "a solution to Reapers that's not direct", but it is obvious that they concentrated less on the former and more on the later, assuming they were the same thing. To me, it's not.

[ArchedAlbatross]

Allan,

I have been trying to come up with a way to answer your question about "seeing" our war assets, and I think it is a mixture of two things:

1. We want to have some of the elements from the ME2 suicide mission where our choices equal people living or dying (and we want to see cutscenes that show what happens from our choices).

2.We want the number of war assets that we collected affect our final outcome, even if that means complete mission failure. Hell, I would not care if my Shepard died in a fiery blast when running towards the space elevator if I only had the minimum EMS. On the other hand, I think that I should be able to reach the space elevator untouched if I have a high enough EMS.

Then I think the devs should look at the last mission in ME1 where you had to battle through hordes of Geth to get to the control room. That was fun because there was a sense of urgency because there were cutscenes that showed Saren storming through the Citadel trying to get it ready for Sovereign. Perhaps we should be chasing TIM to the control panel because we know what his plan is.

I can tell you that I started ME3 completely fine with the idea, and even the expectation, that in order to save the Galaxy Shepard would have to sacrifice himself. I was ready for that. I just didn't care for the execution of the idea. Half a dozen lines of dialogue to summarize 3 games? I was dumbfounded. I didn't get to "investigate" didn't get to ask questions, just got railroaded into an A, B, or C ending where the resulting cutscene differed in explosion color only, and I just don't understand how this could happen after all the variables on Tuchanka were handled so flawlessly.

[Valorefane Dragonwinter]

I really like some of the ideas put forth here about how to illustrate war assets during the Priority: Earth mission.

[Duckin50s]

i would've enjoyed a suicide mission type of gameplay setup for taking back earth, splitting up my squad and sending them to diffrent obectives and stuff.

But what I really wanted was a crazy big space battle where we got to fly the normandy or a fighter and actually do some space combat. then shepard and his squad would halo jump down to earth and dodge reapers and other ships battling in the sky. then after landing and blowing up the anti-air cannon, you grab a mako and tear a hole in the reaper's front lines and push toward the citadel elevator thingy. then you have a crazy all out battle with your entire team and all the other forces you've gathered and you meet the reapers forces head on for an amazing explosive final battle. that's what i wanted, but hey i'll take getin blown up by harby too i guess

[SP2219]

 Ah.  Thats a good question.

My answer iiiiiiissssss.........


NO

[clarkusdarkus]

no we didnt take it back, shephard became a delivery man on the citadel instead.

[SP2219]

The problem is that, on the back of the game box it says:

"TAKE EARTH BACK"

Yeah we kind of failed on that one. Just thought I'd put that out there...

[BurningArmor]

No, I did not take back Earth.  There was no option for it. 

Destroy was close, but stabbed to many friends in the back.  Shepard might have lived, but there was the destruction of civilization.  The war might be back in this end.

Control was not even close.  Shepard gets one command and dies for that.  My hat is off to anyone that can issue a proper command while being disintigrated.  Also there was the destruction of civilization.

Synthesis seemed like peace through appeasement in addition to the horror many seemed to feel at the prospect of being a cyborg.  Shepard dies (disintigrated again) and there is the destruction of civilization.