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[Alastrian]

MassEffect762 wrote...

Don't they? You saw what they did for Arl Eamon. That Guardian sure did know alot about you and your companions, does the maker exist? Probably.

Alternative theories to 'The Maker did it' have already been explained above.

So much Maker denial, not the first time Bioware uses those words in their games.(I'm not even religious)

Maybe its not so much denying the Maker himself, but the Chantry that has built itself around belief in him. I definitely disagree with much of Morrigan's morality, but I can't help but grin about everything she says about the Chantry... especially that line on how the Chantry feeds on people's guilt like a glutton at a dinner table.

To some the chantry and the maker are "hogwash" but high dragons and old gods are A-Okay.

Well the High Dragons and Old Gods are tangible. Nobody has ever seen the Maker.

I don't get all the fuss hate over "the maker" in a friggin fantasy game.

Come on! Let the people have their fun on here

As for my own feelings about the Maker and the Chantry... I can't help but be biased by my own contempt for Christianity in the real world and I see a few too many parallels between the Chantry and Christianity for my liking. Besides, some of the most annoying characters are the pious ones... like that crazy girl in the mage tower who probably self-flagellates simply for being a mage.

[The Angry One]

Original182 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

There are theories in-game that Andraste was a mage, and it certainly fits with historical accounts.
The healing and regenerative properties of Lyrium are obvious, I suggest actually playing the game before deriding other's theories.

Andraste being a mage is as probable as there being a Maker actually. And no, I don't remember historical accounts of Andraste casting spells.

She opposed a mageocracy with the power of faith did she? There are books you find that support this case.
Books that by the way are supposed to have been burned by the Chantry. I wonder why.

Healing and regenerative properties of Lyrium is irrelevant. It doesn't make anything able to heal. Magical weapons can't heal for instance. And even if it did, no known healing magic could heal Arl Eamon. Except the ashes of a prophet of the Maker. Coincidence cannot explain that away.

Baloney. Lyrium restores health. Fact. Even the raw Lyrium in the Anvil caves can heal you.
Now take the ashes of a probable mage, infuse them with Lyrium and leave them for millenia. Bingo! Magic healing powder.
Your dismissal of Oghren is simply because he provides evidence YOU don't like. He doesn't have to be a professor, HE IS A DWARF, DWARVES SENSE LYRIUM.

I suggest you open your mind a bit more.

I suggest you stop imprinting your own faith, whatever it may be, onto the Chantry.
Or perhaps it's the reverse. Such a irrepresably belligerent and fake religion hits too close to home, perhaps?

[Alastrian]

sprybry wrote...
...the cake is a lie.

A delicious lie

[Cazlee]

Hopefully we can get some more insight on the effects of Lyrium from Dagna's research in a future DLC or Sequel. Until then, all we can do is speculate.

I personally believe that the ashes do not contain any inherent healing properties, but act as either some sort of catalyst or spell magnifier.

[Original182]

The Angry One wrote...
She opposed a mageocracy with the power of faith did she? There are books you find that support this case.
Books that by the way are supposed to have been burned by the Chantry. I wonder why.

So because she opposed a mageocracy, she MUST be a mage? Maybe she had mages in her army of her own? And I really don't know where you're getting all your facts about books being burnt by the Chantry. The only book I saw was a gift that you could give to Wynne that was spared from being burnt. You gambling everything on a book, which could have been forged by a mage to undermine the Chantry to gain more freedom for mages. The Chantry don't have all the liars in the world.

Speculation is fun, but it doesn't make it fact. Please don't chide the Chantry, yet ignore your own speculations.

Baloney. Lyrium restores health. Fact. Even the raw Lyrium in the Anvil caves can heal you.
Now take the ashes of a probable mage, infuse them with Lyrium and leave them for millenia. Bingo! Magic healing powder.

But if you use lyrium potions, it restores mana? Lyrium infused on weapons or armor don't have healing abilities, just magical abilities.
Raw lyrium may heal, but once lyrium is used on something else, it doesn't necessarily heal. Nevermind the fact that no healing magic could work on Arl Eamon.

Your dismissal of Oghren is simply because he provides evidence YOU don't like. He doesn't have to be a professor, HE IS A DWARF, DWARVES SENSE LYRIUM.

And you dismiss the Chantry simply because you don't like the Chantry.
If a First Enchanter or even Brother Genitivi were to use that theory, maybe it would be more plausible, because they actually research stuff. If we can just use anyone, then I can use Alistair, Wynne and Leliana's testimonies.

I suggest you stop imprinting your own faith, whatever it may be, onto the Chantry.
Or perhaps it's the reverse. Such a irrepresably belligerent and fake religion hits too close to home, perhaps?

I could ask you the same thing about fake religion striking your nerve.

I will stop imprinting my own faith, if you stop using "lyrium" to explain it away. Public forums, you cannot tell me what not to say as long as it doesn't break forum rules.

And your theories are as unconvincing as the Chantry's. But for some reason, you think you are beyond criticism.

Modifié par Original182, 06 décembre 2009 - 05:36 .

[The Angry One]

Original182 wrote...

So because she opposed a mageocracy, she MUST be a mage? Maybe she had mages in her army of her own? And I really don't know where you're getting all your facts about books being burnt by the Chantry. The only book I saw was a gift that you could give to Wynne that was spared from being burnt. You gambling everything on a book, which could have been forged by a mage to undermine the Chantry to gain more freedom for mages. The Chantry don't have all the liars in the world.

Speculation is fun, but it doesn't make it fact. Please don't chide the Chantry, yet ignore your own speculations.

And yet every time evidence is presented, you dismiss it.

But if you use lyrium potions, it restores mana? Lyrium infused on weapons or armor don't have healing abilities, just magical abilities.
Raw lyrium may heal, but once lyrium is used on something else, it doesn't heal.

What's your point? Lyrium refined into power and turned into a potion specifically brewed to restore mana restores mana?
This excludes other effects Lyrium may have, especially in this unique situation.. how?

And you dismiss the Chantry simply because you don't like the Chantry.

No, I dismiss what the Chantry says because it's not backed up by anything, and their actions speak louder than words.

If a First Enchanter or even Brother Genitivi were to use that theory, maybe it would be more plausible, because they actually research stuff. If we can just use anyone, then I can use Alistair, Wynne and Leliana's testimonies.

Which part of "Dwarves sense Lyrium" do you not understand?
You don't get to dismiss it because Oghren isn't a freaking scientist.

I will stop imprinting my own faith, if you stop using "lyrium" to explain it away. Public forums, you cannot tell me what not to say as long as it doesn't break forum rules.

Your theories are as unconvincing as the Chantry's.

Sorry, but the fact that you don't like the lyrium explanation doesn't change the fact that we have a temple full of lyrium and magical energy that most likely affected the ashes stored in it for millenia.
You just don't like it because it directly contradicts your odd "proof of Maker" theory.

By the way, even if we dismissed the Lyrium, it still doesn't prove the existance of the Maker, in the end it's still magical dust with healing properties. That's it. Without Lyrium, it's cause would be simply undefined.

[Thomas9321]

The Angry One wrote...

She opposed a mageocracy with the power of faith did she? There are books you find that support this case.
Books that by the way are supposed to have been burned by the Chantry. I wonder why.

There is one book In game thats a gift for Wynne. You don't get to read it. All you get is a summary of what its about. The theories within could be contrived and utterly illogical for all you know. Stop stating it as fact, one paragraph in an item discription does no outweigh the whole rest of the lore.

[MBirkhofer]

The Angry One wrote...

Eamon was in a coma when they were used, for it to be a placebo you would have to know it was being used.
They definitely work. Not surprising given the high concentration of Lyrium in the temple, and the probability that Andraste was a mage.

Lyrium is poisonous and kills people.  The is nothing that would even begin to suggest Lyrium itself being infused with the ashes would cure anything.
The healing arts for mages is fairly limited.  This is suggested in more then a few places.  And taking it another step, even if she was a mage, that her ashes would have any magical effect is also not logical.  If you are fire mage, your ashes don't just magically start fires.
It is simply a mystery.    The divine explaination makes far more sense then the strong mage one. However, both are clearly full of holes.    Both a mage and consorting with a god is probably the truth of it.

[Mummolus]

Just a note regarding an earlier post - Occam's razor doesn't work in your favor, Angry One.

The razor requires you to make the smallest number of assumptions, and you're assuming that the Chantry is lying, Andraste was a mage, that raw lyrium can 'imbue' objects with effects through simple exposure (all of Orzammar should be glittery if this is true, since it predates Andraste), that Oghren (warrior caste) knows a lot about lyrium, etcetera.

The only assumption explicitly required by the other side is that the Chantry is telling the truth, and all is exactly as it seems.

It seems obvious enough to me that Bioware made this ambiguous on purpose, just like they left the relationship between the Elven pantheon and the Old Gods ambiguous on purpose. Attacking other people because they do or do not believe a theory from a video game is a sad proxy for attacking religious folk in real life.

[Galad22]

Original182 wrote...

Your dismissal of Oghren is simply because he provides evidence YOU don't like. He doesn't have to be a professor, HE IS A DWARF, DWARVES SENSE LYRIUM.

And you dismiss the Chantry simply because you don't like the Chantry.
If a First Enchanter or even Brother Genitivi were to use that theory, maybe it would be more plausible, because they actually research stuff. If we can just use anyone, then I can use Alistair, Wynne and Leliana's testimonies.

Look chantry could be right for all I know, it is a fantasy world after all. But the point is that chantry could just as easily be wrong, IT is a fantasy world after all.

And even you must admit that Oghrens theory could just as easily be the right one than chantrys.

[The Angry One]

Thomas9321 wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

She opposed a mageocracy with the power of faith did she? There are books you find that support this case.
Books that by the way are supposed to have been burned by the Chantry. I wonder why.

There is one book In game thats a gift for Wynne. You don't get to read it. All you get is a summary of what its about. The theories within could be contrived and utterly illogical for all you know. Stop stating it as fact, one paragraph in an item discription does no outweigh the whole rest of the lore.

Compared to what? Vague chantry myths that Andraste is the bride of the Maker? You assume there's an abundance of evidence either way, which there isn't.

[Maria Caliban]

Galad22 wrote...

Oghren doubts ashes are actually magical, rather that temple and most pure lyriym ever anywhere is changing ashes and everything else in that temple. Definitely just as plausible explanation than magical healing ashes of a long dead prophet of an uncaring god.

Oghren never doubts that the ashes are magical.

[Thomas9321]

Vague Chantry myths? What happened during Andraste's life is all proven fact. Unless you want dismiss the insane amount of evidence that she was real presented by the Urn of Sacred ashes quest as fake? Look, you have no read the book, you cannot use it as evidence. If we got to read the book, then we could discuss its claims. But we don' get to read it, do we? For all you know you could be badly misrepresenting its theories. You can't disprove the Chantry with one paragraph.

Your Oghren quote also, is not great evidence. When last I checked, we don't take drunks as absolute evidence. Much more intelligent, less drunk people than Oghren attest that Andraste was divine.

EDIT: I will marry whoever gives me a preview post option with a spellcheck!

Modifié par Thomas9321, 06 décembre 2009 - 06:01 .

[The Angry One]

Mummolus wrote...

Just a note regarding an earlier post - Occam's razor doesn't work in your favor, Angry One.
The razor requires you to make the smallest number of assumptions, and you're assuming that the Chantry is lying, Andraste was a mage, that raw lyrium can 'imbue' objects with effects through simple exposure (all of Orzammar should be glittery if this is true, since it predates Andraste), that Oghren (warrior caste) knows a lot about lyrium, etcetera.
The only assumption explicitly required by the other side is that the Chantry is telling the truth, and all is exactly as it seems.

That Andraste is a mage is a possibility, but not necesarry for the Lyrium theory.
The surroundings of Orzammar contain raw Lyrium, yes. But in case you forgot, Dwarves cannot do magic and are resistant to it's effects. Furthermore the temple is awash with magical energies and devices, the tests, the Guardian, the "spirits". It creates an enviroment full of magic and Lyrium to which the ashes have been exposes for millenia.

Let's look at the assumptions we have to make:

Lyrium ashes:
There is Lyrium in the temple (supported)
There is magic in the temple (fact)
The high concentration of magic and Lyrium have imbued the ashes with magical properites related to both Lyrium and magic which are known to restore health and vitality among other things.

Maker's ashes:
There is in fact a Maker (unsupported)
The Maker had contact with Andraste
The ashes are definitely Andraste's
The ashes are imbued with the holy power of the Maker
This holy power is somehow beyond magic and Lyrium, an unknown factor never seen before or since
This holy power is able to heal because.. it.. can.
The Maker chose to do this with Andraste's *ashes* rather than.. er.. Andraste

[Original182]

The Angry One wrote...
And yet every time evidence is presented, you dismiss it.

That's the problem. It's about as much evidence as the Chantry.
Dubious book hinting that Andraste was a powerful mage? Clearly fact.
Chantry claiming Andraste was a prophet of the Maker? Chantry hogwash, clearly fake and must be lies!

You ask people to accept your "evidence", but you yourself automatically dismiss the Chantry's.

What's your point? Lyrium refined into power and turned into a potion specifically brewed to restore mana restores mana?
This excludes other effects Lyrium may have, especially in this unique situation.. how?

There is no potion made by lyrium that can heal. It all restores mana.
If there was such a side-effect of lyrium that could heal Arl Eamon's condition, a mage would have discovered it.

No, I dismiss what the Chantry says because it's not backed up by anything, and their actions speak louder than words.

And neither is Andraste being a mage backed up by anything solid. Yet you take it for a fact!

Which part of "Dwarves sense Lyrium" do you not understand?
You don't get to dismiss it because Oghren isn't a freaking scientist.

Even if there is abundant lyrium in the room, it is no different than the presence of lyrium deposits at the Anvil of the Void. It doesn't tell anyone.... anything. Just that lyrium deposits happen.
And again, if you would accept anyone's testimony, why not someone like Wynne? Wynne is an expert in magic, has gained heaps of wisdom, but you don't hear her dismiss Andraste's ashes as just ashes+lyrium?

Sorry, but the fact that you don't like the lyrium explanation doesn't change the fact that we have a temple full of lyrium and magical energy that most likely affected the ashes stored in it for millenia.
You just don't like it because it directly contradicts your odd "proof of Maker" theory.

The Anvil of the Void has heaps of lyrium. The temple having lyrium really isn't that weird. Things like this just happen. They don't say anything.
And if you talk to that artifact collector near the Chantry in Denerim, there were already rumours that Andraste Ashes could heal. They could have already started healing people before the lyrium accumulated in the temple.

By the way, even if we dismissed the Lyrium, it still doesn't prove the existance of the Maker, in the end it's still magical dust with healing properties. That's it. Without Lyrium, it's cause would be simply undefined.

It doesn't prove it, but it could hint that there is a Maker. The ashes of the Maker's most devout follower being the only thing that could heal Arl Eamon, where lyrium or magic failed, gives the Maker a strong case. It's too much of a coincidence to be just lyrium+ashes.

But as Flemeth says, "We believe what we want to believe. It's all we ever do."

[The Angry One]

Thomas9321 wrote...

Vague Chantry myths? What happened during Andraste's life is all proved fact. Unless you want dismiss the insane amount of evidence that she was real presented by the Urn of Sacred ashes quest as fake? Look, you have no read the book, you cannot use it as evidence.

You're full of crap. Andraste being real doesn't prove her divinity, and nothing in the entire temple says otherwise.

If we got to read the book, then we could discuss its claims. But we don' get to read it, do we? For all you know you could be badly misrepresenting its theories. You can't disprove the Chantry with one paragraph.

And I'm sure it's mere coincidence that the Chantry wanted it burned, then.

Your Oghren quote also, is not great evidence. When last I checked, we don't take drunks as absolute evidence. Much more intelligent, less drunk people than Oghren attest that Andraste was divine.

Oghren's character and drunkeness is entirely irrelevant. He concludes that there's a high concentration of Lyrium based on his senses which all dwarves are PROVEN to have.
Much more "intelligent" characters conclude that Andraste was divine based on absolutely nothing.

[The Angry One]

Original182 wrote...

That's the problem. It's about as much evidence as the Chantry.
Dubious book hinting that Andraste was a powerful mage? Clearly fact.
Chantry claiming Andraste was a prophet of the Maker? Chantry hogwash, clearly fake and must be lies!

You ask people to accept your "evidence", but you yourself automatically dismiss the Chantry's.

I never said it was fact, I said it was a POSSIBILITY that Andraste was a mage, and it fits in nicely with the ashes BEING MAGICAL.

There is no potion made by lyrium that can heal. It all restores mana.
If there was such a side-effect of lyrium that could heal Arl Eamon's condition, a mage would have discovered it.

Assuming that such a thing is possible.
Assuming that this isn't the result of Lyrium and magical energy imbueing the ashes over millenia.

And neither is Andraste being a mage backed up by anything solid. Yet you take it for a fact!

No, I don't. I take it as a possibility that, combined with the Lyrium theory, makes it far more likely than the idea that she doinked a nebulous, inscrutable deity that's conveniently no longer present.

Even if there is abundant lyrium in the room, it is no different than the presence of lyrium deposits at the Anvil of the Void. It doesn't tell anyone.... anything. Just that lyrium deposits happen.

And you think abundance of magic + Lyrium + magic ashes = coincidence?

And again, if you would accept anyone's testimony, why not someone like Wynne? Wynne is an expert in magic, has gained heaps of wisdom, but you don't hear her dismiss Andraste's ashes as just ashes+lyrium?

Wynne's views are coloured by her faith. If someone with faith comes across such a "holy" artifact, they're not going to sit there and question it.

The Anvil of the Void has heaps of lyrium. The temple having lyrium really isn't that weird. Things like this just happen. They don't say anything.
And if you talk to that artifact collector near the Chantry in Denerim, there were already rumours that Andraste Ashes could heal. They could have already started healing people before the lyrium accumulated in the temple.

And you of course know when Lyrium accumilated in the temple?
Despite it being a Tevinter structure.. you know, built by a freaking Mageocracy?

It doesn't prove it, but it could hint that there is a Maker. The ashes of the Maker's most devout follower being the only thing that could heal Arl Eamon, where lyrium or magic failed, gives the Maker a strong case. It's too much of a coincidence to be just lyrium+ashes.

But as Flemeth says, "We believe what we want to believe. It's all we ever do."

It doesn't hint at anything other than these magical ashes are better than other magical stuff in a world full of magic.

[MBirkhofer]

The Angry One wrote...

Mummolus wrote...

Just a note regarding an earlier post - Occam's razor doesn't work in your favor, Angry One.
The razor requires you to make the smallest number of assumptions, and you're assuming that the Chantry is lying, Andraste was a mage, that raw lyrium can 'imbue' objects with effects through simple exposure (all of Orzammar should be glittery if this is true, since it predates Andraste), that Oghren (warrior caste) knows a lot about lyrium, etcetera.
The only assumption explicitly required by the other side is that the Chantry is telling the truth, and all is exactly as it seems.

That Andraste is a mage is a possibility, but not necesarry for the Lyrium theory.
The surroundings of Orzammar contain raw Lyrium, yes. But in case you forgot, Dwarves cannot do magic and are resistant to it's effects. Furthermore the temple is awash with magical energies and devices, the tests, the Guardian, the "spirits". It creates an enviroment full of magic and Lyrium to which the ashes have been exposes for millenia.

Let's look at the assumptions we have to make:

Lyrium ashes:
There is Lyrium in the temple (supported)
There is magic in the temple (fact)
The high concentration of magic and Lyrium have imbued the ashes with magical properites related to both Lyrium and magic which are known to restore health and vitality among other things.

Maker's ashes:
There is in fact a Maker (unsupported)
The Maker had contact with Andraste
The ashes are definitely Andraste's
The ashes are imbued with the holy power of the Maker
This holy power is somehow beyond magic and Lyrium, an unknown factor never seen before or since
This holy power is able to heal because.. it.. can.
The Maker chose to do this with Andraste's *ashes* rather than.. er.. Andraste

Lyrium does not heal.
That is purely a gameplay mechanic. not a lore based one.  Health poltices heal instantly as well, but aren't magic, nor divine.
Lyrium is completely deadly to everyone but dwarves.    as dust, magics can imbibue very very small doses mixed with other ingrediants to restore their mana potential briefly.
Even Dwarves aren't completely immune, and need to limit their exposure.  But anyone not Dwarven is supposed to die instantly to contact with pure lyrium.

The ashes behave like nothing else in the world.   You said it yourself, the maker is absent, and does not provide any divine boons in anyway anywhere else.  And here we have something that lore says is divine, and is behaving in ways no one understands.    The simplest answer is, the lore is true.    now, that doesn't mean the maker is a "true" god.  Still could be another kind of power, like the old gods themselves are.

Modifié par MBirkhofer, 06 décembre 2009 - 06:10 .

[The Angry One]

MBirkhofer wrote...

Lyrium does not heal.
That is purely a gameplay mechanic. not a lore based one.  Health poltices heal instantly as well, but aren't magic, nor divine.
Lyrium is completely deadly to everyone but dwarves.    as dust, magics can imbibue very very small doses mixed with other ingrediants to restore their mana potential briefly.
Even Dwarves aren't completely immune, and need to limit their exposure.  But anyone not Dwarven is supposed to die instantly to contact with pure lyrium.

Sigh. That was merely an example. The point is that Lyrium has restorative properties as a magical substance.
Who knows what effect it would have on ashes stored in there for millenia.

And I love how people assume healing Eamon literally means restoring his health therefore Lyrium can't do it in any way whatsoever. That isn't a gameplay mechanic either you know. What the ashes need to do is flush the poison from his system, restore any damage to his organs and wake him up. Precisely WHY some think a magical powder bolstered by Lyrium CAN'T do this is anyone's guess.

[Thomas9321]

The Angry One wrote...

Thomas9321 wrote...

Vague Chantry myths? What happened during Andraste's life is all proved fact. Unless you want dismiss the insane amount of evidence that she was real presented by the Urn of Sacred ashes quest as fake? Look, you have no read the book, you cannot use it as evidence.

You're full of crap. Andraste being real doesn't prove her divinity, and nothing in the entire temple says otherwise.

If we got to read the book, then we could discuss its claims. But we don' get to read it, do we? For all you know you could be badly misrepresenting its theories. You can't disprove the Chantry with one paragraph.

And I'm sure it's mere coincidence that the Chantry wanted it burned, then.

Your Oghren quote also, is not great evidence. When last I checked, we don't take drunks as absolute evidence. Much more intelligent, less drunk people than Oghren attest that Andraste was divine.

Oghren's character and drunkeness is entirely irrelevant. He concludes that there's a high concentration of Lyrium based on his senses which all dwarves are PROVEN to have.
Much more "intelligent" characters conclude that Andraste was divine based on absolutely nothing.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, no need to be offensive here, I don't appreciate being told I'm full of crap. I never stated that Andraste was divine, not once, I merely made an observation that her life was, in the world of Thedas, historical fact.

The fact the Chantry wanted it burned is not damning evidence. The Chantry viewed it as heresy and found it offensive that is all, it does not prove that the book disproves the divinity of Andraste. I doubt a single person in Thedas was ever converted by this book.

Oghren's character and drunkeness are completely relevent, his alchohol intake could mess with his Lyrium senses. Also, his warrior caste background makes me believe he has little knowledge of Lyrium. Were he mining or smith caste then yes, it would add more credence.

The spirits in the Urn temple all believe Andraste was divine, including her own husband. Now, as is clear to everyone, the lore is ambiguous. Neither of use can conclusively prove what we're arguing. My point however, is you should not dismiss it out of hand. Especially considering the Maker is far from the most fantastical thing in Thedas.

[Galad22]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Oghren never doubts that the ashes are magical.

Leliana: I never dreamed... blah blah

Oghren: I don't know how mystical that urn really is. Lyriym veins in these walls are thickest, purest I have sensed in a while, it's doing things... Changing this temple and everything in it.

That to me sounds like doubt there.

[Maria Caliban]

Thomas9321 wrote...

EDIT: I will marry whoever gives me a preview post option with a spellcheck!

Use Firefox.

[The Angry One]

Thomas9321 wrote...

Whoa, whoa, whoa, no need to be offensive here, I don't appreciate being told I'm full of crap. I never stated that Andraste was divine, not once, I merely made an observation that her life was, in the world of Thedas, historical fact.

Helpful tip, don't make stupid statements and I won't say you're full of crap.

The fact the Chantry wanted it burned is not damning evidence. The Chantry viewed it as heresy and found it offensive that is all, it does not prove that the book disproves the divinity of Andraste. I doubt a single person in Thedas was ever converted by this book.

And why would they view it as heresy? Gee maybe because it says things that are inconvenient for them?

Oghren's character and drunkeness are completely relevent, his alchohol intake could mess with his Lyrium senses.

And this is based on..

Also, his warrior caste background makes me believe he has little knowledge of Lyrium. Were he mining or smith caste then yes, it would add more credence.

Except it's said all dwarves have a sense for lyrium.

The spirits in the Urn temple all believe Andraste was divine, including her own husband. Now, as is clear to everyone, the lore is ambiguous. Neither of use can conclusively prove what we're arguing. My point however, is you should not dismiss it out of hand. Especially considering the Maker is far from the most fantastical thing in Thedas.

These same spirits also turn into hostile creatures and attack you if you get their riddles wrong.
This sort of indicates that these are not, in fact, spirits of the historical figures they represent and their testimony is largely irrelevant.

[The Angry One]

Galad22 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Oghren never doubts that the ashes are magical.

Leliana: I never dreamed... blah blah

Oghren: I don't know how mystical that urn really is. Lyriym veins in these walls are thickest, purest I have sensed in a while, it's doing things... Changing this temple and everything in it.

That to me sounds like doubt there.

Um not really, since Lyrium is magical and thus whatever effects they'd have are magical.
What Oghren is doubting is their supposed divinity.