The Angry One wrote...
Mummolus wrote...
Just a note regarding an earlier post - Occam's razor doesn't work in your favor, Angry One.
The razor requires you to make the smallest number of assumptions, and you're assuming that the Chantry is lying, Andraste was a mage, that raw lyrium can 'imbue' objects with effects through simple exposure (all of Orzammar should be glittery if this is true, since it predates Andraste), that Oghren (warrior caste) knows a lot about lyrium, etcetera.
The only assumption explicitly required by the other side is that the Chantry is telling the truth, and all is exactly as it seems.
That Andraste is a mage is a possibility, but not necesarry for the Lyrium theory.
The surroundings of Orzammar contain raw Lyrium, yes. But in case you forgot, Dwarves cannot do magic and are resistant to it's effects. Furthermore the temple is awash with magical energies and devices, the tests, the Guardian, the "spirits". It creates an enviroment full of magic and Lyrium to which the ashes have been exposes for millenia.
Let's look at the assumptions we have to make:
Lyrium ashes:
There is Lyrium in the temple (supported)
There is magic in the temple (fact)
The high concentration of magic and Lyrium have imbued the ashes with magical properites related to both Lyrium and magic which are known to restore health and vitality among other things.
Maker's ashes:
There is in fact a Maker (unsupported)
The Maker had contact with Andraste
The ashes are definitely Andraste's
The ashes are imbued with the holy power of the Maker
This holy power is somehow beyond magic and Lyrium, an unknown factor never seen before or since
This holy power is able to heal because.. it.. can.
The Maker chose to do this with Andraste's *ashes* rather than.. er.. Andraste
Originally you made a point that the fact that Andraste's ashes work probably because of the lyrium and because she was probably a mage. Now you're disputing that the ashes are even hers, and saying it doesn't matter if she was a mage or not. I liked your argument more before you started changing it.
That said, a couple points about this: Magical healing, poultices, and yes, lyrium are "restorative," but no mages were able to cure Eamon prior to the ashes being used. Presumably given his position they pulled out all the stops--if what you say about lyrium is true I would expect them to have used it somehow as well. Why wouldn't it have worked? Are you assuming now that lyrium also needs a dead mage's cremated remains and that magical ingredient, time, to work in this case?
You're highly exaggerating the difficulty of the opposition's position. As said in the post you quoted, it really only requires one assumption: that the Chantry can be trusted to be honest. If you're not willing to make that one assumption, then you already wouldn't believe in the maker or any of the rest, so there's little point in breaking down all the different points. Additionally, most of the "assumptions" you say the opposition has to make aren't even necessary or are just expressions of your own skepticism.
Beyond all that, more and more reading your posts it looks like your argument is an extension of some sort of antipathy toward organized religion in real life. I guess that's something I just don't understand, since my own beliefs just don't have much to do with what my characters may or may not believe in a video game. The truth or untruth of what a fictional religious organization says just doesn't affect me much.
Retour en haut
(Incidentally, in modern clinical trials, the "double blind" where both doctor and patient don't know what's going on; placebo like effects caused with only a single blind are well documented.)
