238 réponses à ce sujet

[Blissey1]

KroganSmash wrote...

vivanto wrote...

GPS is for varren, Claymore is FOR TUCHANKA.

This.
Thus ending this argument in the simple state of this. Graal>GPS

I fixed that for you.

KainD wrote...

If claymore was a chargable weapon I would consider using it, but it is not. I use ONLY chargable weapons on my infiltrator - GPS/Graal/Kishok. Non-chargable weapons don't compete.

Not true, Claymore is way superior in one important category- Ease of use. Charge -> cloak is clunky as ****.

Modifié par Blissey1, 17 avril 2012 - 06:57 .

[Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd]

nuculerman wrote...

Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd wrote...

So you're saying I don't know how to play a Krogan Sentinel? I didn't realize this was the "You're playing Multiplayer wrong" forum..

Maybe you should read.  I said I didn't know how to play one.  The point was it takes little skill to be viable with a gps.  The fact that you use a gps does not mean you have little skill.  Please refer to the wikipedia article on logic if this confuses you.

Why list it then? I mentioned Krogan in my post and you mentioned Krogan, the logical assumption is that you were making an indirect reference to my previous statement. And why call it a "Beginner Weapon" if you meant nothing of the sort? Or am I missing something?

I can use the Graal when I don't have constant lag, but it still doesn't compare to the GPS even though I've constantly used both.

[astheoceansblue]

The Graal is easy to use, and an amazing gun, if you have host.

Otherwise it can be one of the most useless weapons in the game.

GPS is more stable, that's all. Graal would be much more popular if it didn't suffer from the latency issues. It's nothing to do with ease of use in a general sense.

Your OP is worded in quote an arrogant way, believe me, you're not the only person who picked up the Graal and thought it was a beast.

It's been a while since launch now, and while many go for cookie cutter builds the most efficient and deadly guns have all been singled out. If the thing worked as intended more often than not then people would use it more, that's the problem.

Blissey1 wrote...

Not true, Claymore is way superior in one important category- Ease of use. Charge -> cloak is clunky as ****.

 

Charge -> Cloak is one of the smoothest mechanics in the game, imo. It just takes some getting used to.

Modifié par astheoceansblue, 17 avril 2012 - 06:58 .

[KiraTsukasa]

I use the Graal over GPS because Graal II, GPS I.

[KalilKareem]

Stardusk wrote...

Dresden867 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

Sure. But the idea that the GPS is just plain better is a fallacy.

 No. It's just an opinion, which is essentially valueless in formal logic unless backed up by relevant assertions to a conclusion.

 A fallacy is something where the logic does not actually flow -to- the conclusion.

 You may feel that the opinion or possibly supporting assertions are wrong, but that does not render the conclusion invalid for people who have that opinion.

 (pardon, misuse of that word is a pet peeve)

We are not talking formal logic here, but common parlance and descriptively the use of fallacy is fine. Don't start with me on this, I have advanced degrees in theoretical linguistics.

And a phd in strutifilic upnosery I assume?

[KainD]

Blissey1 wrote...

KainD wrote...

If claymore was a chargable weapon I would consider using it, but it is not. I use ONLY chargable weapons on my infiltrator - GPS/Graal/Kishok. Non-chargable weapons don't compete.

Not true, Claymore is way superior in one important category- Ease of use. Charge -> cloak is clunky as ****.

That is a bad argument. Something doesn't become inferior just because it is harder to use it. Otherwise we would have racers with automatic gear boxes instead of manual, even though manual one improves performance. Also I got used to it like breathing, it's not clunky to me at all, not anymore atleast.

[Blissey1]

astheoceansblue wrote...

Blissey1 wrote...

Not true, Claymore is way superior in one important category- Ease of use. Charge -> cloak is clunky as ****.

 

Charge -> Cloak is one of the smoothest mechanics in the game, imo. It just takes some getting used to.

until they let you charge weapons while in cover, I can't agree with you. That and using a ladder making you loose your charge, though that's pretty minor.

Having to change the way I interact with a major element of the game(cover) to get the most out of a weapon is just a no sell for me.

Besides, the simple point -> shoot -> dead abiltiy of the claymore has saved me more than a few times.

Modifié par Blissey1, 17 avril 2012 - 07:12 .

[Zakmonster85]

I use the Graal on Krogans and the GPS on non-Krogans. I use the Claymore on my Krogan Sentinel because he doesn't care about cooldowns as much as the Soldier or the Battlemaster.

[Zenning]

astheoceansblue wrote...

Otherwise it can be one of the most useless weapons in the game [If you have lag].

Watch the two man we had.  He's located on literally the oppisite side of the world from me, and I still used it very effectivly.  Did I do as well as I could of?  No, but it's hardly the "one of the most Most useless" weapon in the game. Once again, with a bit of practice you can do it.

[KainD]

Blissey1 wrote...

astheoceansblue wrote...

Blissey1 wrote...

Not true, Claymore is way superior in one important category- Ease of use. Charge -> cloak is clunky as ****.

 

Charge -> Cloak is one of the smoothest mechanics in the game, imo. It just takes some getting used to.

until they let you charge weapons while in cover, I can't agree with you. That and using a ladder making you loose your charge, though that's pretty minor.

Having to change the way I interact with a major element of the game(cover) to get the most out of a weapon is just a no sell for me.

Besides, the simple point -> shoot -> dead abiltiy of the claymore has saved me more than a few times.

Ah, there is your problem. You use cover. 

[Keymonk]

The Graal firing sound is the best thing ever.

[nuculerman]

Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd wrote...


Why list it then? I mentioned Krogan in my post and you mentioned Krogan, the logical assumption is that you were making an indirect reference to my previous statement. And why call it a "Beginner Weapon" if you meant nothing of the sort? Or am I missing something?

I can use the Graal when I don't have constant lag, but it still doesn't compare to the GPS even though I've constantly used both.

You're taking things personally and not reading what I actually wrote.  I'm assuming as a defense mechanism for all the hate you must get for playing a Krogan who most random group players assume are awful, because they are 90% of the time.

The GPS is easy to use properly.  Saying anything different is a lie.  Like any weapon, knowing when to use it with its small clip and which targets to single out to help your teammates the most takes skill.  And given its without a doubt one of the most effective weapons in the game, there are and should be a lot of really skilled players choosing it.  Which makes it very similar to the carnifex.

[astheoceansblue]

Zenning wrote...

astheoceansblue wrote...

Otherwise it can be one of the most useless weapons in the game [If you have lag].

Watch the two man we had.  He's located on literally the oppisite side of the world from me, and I still used it very effectivly.  Did I do as well as I could of?  No, but it's hardly the "one of the most Most useless" weapon in the game. Once again, with a bit of practice you can do it.

Yes, you can learn to compensate for latency issues, but in my expeirnce it's never ever consistent in the distance and you need that consistency for the shots to become instinctive.

You effecitvely gimped yourself because you could have done it better with a diffeerent gun. Mad props for doing so well with what you had, but that doesnt' make the gun any better. 

Perhaps "most usless" was al ittle harsh, but it's only my passion talking: on paper, it's my favourite shotgun. I unlocked it in my very first pack and I almost fainted. I would love it if I could, trust me.

Modifié par astheoceansblue, 17 avril 2012 - 07:16 .

[Blissey1]

 

KainD wrote...

Blissey1 wrote...

KainD wrote...

If claymore was a chargable weapon I would consider using it, but it is not. I use ONLY chargable weapons on my infiltrator - GPS/Graal/Kishok. Non-chargable weapons don't compete.

Not true, Claymore is way superior in one important category- Ease of use. Charge -> cloak is clunky as ****.

That is a bad argument. Something doesn't become inferior just because it is harder to use it. Otherwise we would have racers with automatic gear boxes instead of manual, even though manual one improves performance. Also I got used to it like breathing, it's not clunky to me at all, not anymore atleast.

 

I'm not saying GPS/Grall is inferior. At least no more than you were saying Claymore was inferior. I'm just saying the Claymore shouldn't be dismissed jsut becasue GPS/Grall do better on a stirctly numbers basis. There's more to it than jsut that.

[astheoceansblue]

KainD wrote...

Ah, there is your problem. You use cover. 

This.

My shotgun infiltrator moves around the map like a madman. He has no fitness and he hardly ever drops. The playstyle is a more run and gun concept, and it works because of super-powered almost infini-cloak (energy drain on SI for mobile recharge, too).

Also, you can get in cover and face away from cover to charge. Then jump up and hit cloak. A tactic that really helps at times.

Modifié par astheoceansblue, 17 avril 2012 - 07:21 .

[Zenning]

astheoceansblue wrote...

Zenning wrote...

astheoceansblue wrote...

Otherwise it can be one of the most useless weapons in the game [If you have lag].

Watch the two man we had.  He's located on literally the oppisite side of the world from me, and I still used it very effectivly.  Did I do as well as I could of?  No, but it's hardly the "one of the most Most useless" weapon in the game. Once again, with a bit of practice you can do it.

Yes, you can learn to compensate for latency issues, but in my expeirnce it's never ever consistent in the distance and you need that consistency for the shots to become instinctive.

You effecitvely gimped yourself because you could have done it better with a diffeerent gun. Mad props for doing so well with what you had, but that doesnt' maek the gun any better.

On paper, it's my favourite shotgun. I unlocked it in my very first pack and I almost fainted. I would love it if I could, trust me.

I know for a fact that I could not of done that well with the GPS or the Claymore.  Mainly because of the Staggering power of the Graal compared to the GPS, and the way that the Graal + HEavymelee combo autoheadshots Phantom's.

[astheoceansblue]

Zenning wrote...


I know for a fact that I could not of done that well with the GPS or the Claymore.  Mainly because of the Staggering power of the Graal compared to the GPS, and the way that the Graal + HEavymelee combo autoheadshots Phantom's.

And I know for a fact you would have done so much better if the Graal worked as well as it could.

Again: great gun, horible latency issues reduce its potential.

You honestly think people would ignore it if it were as wonderful as you think? It's not THAT hard to use, it's just frustrating to use and frustrating =/= fun.

[Blissey1]

 

astheoceansblue wrote...

KainD wrote...

Ah, there is your problem. You use cover. 

This.

My shotgun infiltrator moves around the map like a madman. He has no fitness and he hardly ever drops. The playstyle is a more run and gun concept, and it works because of super-powered almost infini-cloak (energy drain on SI for mobile recharge, too).

isn't that exactly how you're not supposed to play because it messes with enemy spawn locations?

I mostly stck in the general vicinity and "snipe" targets at medium ranges with the claymore(surprisingly effective), and only head out on my own if I see something that needs killing now(priority target, phantom sneaking around, etc.).

[Daividox]

Sigh. I really need to stop reading these opinion threads.

[Abael]

Didn't read the 3 pages but...

Stardusk wrote...

Everyone loves the GPS and many people don't like the Graal but the reason why this is so is rather transparent. The GPS is, quite frankly, a beginner's weapon, easy to use, easy to handle and thus its wide spread appeal is explained. The Graal on the other hand, is hard to use, hard to handle and has a much steeper learning curve and it does not 'just work' like the autoaiming GPS does, foregone conclusion of many, the Graal is crap.

Stardusk wrote...

The GPS stops being useful after medium range and OSOK headshots are very difficult to achieve.

Stardusk wrote...

So, in conclusion, the GPS is 'nice' but a beginner's weapon, which why people like it, being easy to use. The Graal is an advanced player's weapon, but with practice anyone can become better with it and then become deadly.

So the GPS is easier to use and thus "a beginner's weapon" or harder to use because of headshots and thus "an advanced player's weapon"?

[RiouHotaru]

Arguing that one weapon is better/worse for a certain difficulty is pointless.

I for one never touch Gold. Even with friends, it's just not worth the failure rate. All it takes is ONE wrong thing or one mistake and you end with a TPK.

Silver is usually more tolerable as long as we don't get Reapers.

Otherwise, Bronze is the best time investment. 13-14 minutes tops.

[KainD]

Blissey1 wrote...

isn't that exactly how you're not supposed to play because it messes with enemy spawn locations?

I mostly stck in the general vicinity and "snipe" targets at medium ranges with the claymore(surprisingly effective), and only head out on my own if I see something that needs killing now(priority target, phantom sneaking around, etc.).

Messing up enemy spawn locations is good. They are devided, and confused in their agro and movement, while players flank them shoot them from all sides.

[defleshing]

gps is the most balanced weapon in this game. in the hands of a vet it can reek havoc from any distance.

[ShwdGanon]

Generally speaking Graal>GPS but on my Geth Infiltrator not the case, just cuz of the bonus damage from passive. But man the graal hits like a truck.