238 réponses à ce sujet

[mekabar77]

Zenning wrote...
So, the more lag you have, the more you have to lead your target.  With barely any lag, headshotting somebody on the other side of the map is stupidly easy, with the amount of lag I got with him, I'd have about a .3 second lag between my shot, and when it'd actually hit something.  With some practice, you'll see me headshotting Phantom's on the other side of the map in that video we had.

Like he said, there's skill invovled, and it takes time learn how to lead it effectivly,  but once you do, it works amazingly.

Accounting for lag doesn't solve the issue in many cases. Unless you are hosting the game the Graal, like all projectile weapons, happens to fire blank shots, that simply deal no damage. I have had this happen in countless cases, when carefully aiming a headshot on an immobilized target (stasis) simply fails to register. Lag is not the issue here.

[Blissey1]

KainD wrote...

Blissey1 wrote...

isn't that exactly how you're not supposed to play because it messes with enemy spawn locations?

I mostly stck in the general vicinity and "snipe" targets at medium ranges with the claymore(surprisingly effective), and only head out on my own if I see something that needs killing now(priority target, phantom sneaking around, etc.).

Messing up enemy spawn locations is good. They are devided, and confused in their agro and movement, while players flank them shoot them from all sides.

I thought it was bad since it causes things to spawn ontop of people? and intead of things coming from 1 easily preditcable location, they're now coming from 3 unkown locations?

being divided means they can more easily flank you, as well.

[astheoceansblue]

Blissey1 wrote...

isn't that exactly how you're not supposed to play because it messes with enemy spawn locations?

I mostly stck in the general vicinity and "snipe" targets at medium ranges with the claymore(surprisingly effective), and only head out on my own if I see something that needs killing now(priority target, phantom sneaking around, etc.).

Whoever said I move through spawn locations? To take a defnsive position doesn't always mean sitting in one spot and camping behind cover. Hell, even an offensive position can be taken witout disrupting spawns. 

I usually float around the fringes of the hotzone and take out stragglers and lure in mobs to the main group. I only ever use cover for two things:

1. to recharge if I'm desperate for it and there's nothing to ED.
2. to wait for my cloak for a second or two if I need it.

Otherwise I use the enviroment to block line of sight and charge -> cloack before moving. 
Or run and roll while charging.

Either way, I'm not static for long.

[Zenning]

Abael wrote...

Didn't read the 3 pages but...

Stardusk wrote...

Everyone loves the GPS and many people don't like the Graal but the reason why this is so is rather transparent. The GPS is, quite frankly, a beginner's weapon, easy to use, easy to handle and thus its wide spread appeal is explained. The Graal on the other hand, is hard to use, hard to handle and has a much steeper learning curve and it does not 'just work' like the autoaiming GPS does, foregone conclusion of many, the Graal is crap.

Stardusk wrote...

The GPS stops being useful after medium range and OSOK headshots are very difficult to achieve.

Stardusk wrote...

So, in conclusion, the GPS is 'nice' but a beginner's weapon, which why people like it, being easy to use. The Graal is an advanced player's weapon, but with practice anyone can become better with it and then become deadly.

So the GPS is easier to use and thus "a beginner's weapon" or harder to use because of headshots and thus "an advanced player's weapon"?

Err..  The GPS can't headshot.  Period.  Like check out the weapon thread, it has no head shot damage modifer.  He probably misspoke.

And yes, GPS really is a beginner weapon.  A headshot with it Will do a massive amount of damage, and it has a higher DPS than the GPS does (According to the weapon topic again).

The weapon topic.

http://social.biowar...ndex/10712294/1

[KainD]

Blissey1 wrote...

KainD wrote...

Blissey1 wrote...

isn't that exactly how you're not supposed to play because it messes with enemy spawn locations?

I mostly stck in the general vicinity and "snipe" targets at medium ranges with the claymore(surprisingly effective), and only head out on my own if I see something that needs killing now(priority target, phantom sneaking around, etc.).

Messing up enemy spawn locations is good. They are devided, and confused in their agro and movement, while players flank them shoot them from all sides.

I thought it was bad since it causes things to spawn ontop of people? and intead of things coming from 1 easily preditcable location, they're now coming from 3 unkown locations?

being divided means they can more easily flank you, as well.

Things don't come from 1 location if you stand in one place, they come from atleast 2 and try to sorround you. I don't care when enemies drop on top of me, it is a surprise for them when they are still coming down the ladder one by one to eat my shots.

[astheoceansblue]

RiouHotaru wrote...

Otherwise, Bronze is the best time investment. 13-14 minutes tops.

Do you play on PC?

Gold is NOT difficult. It's just a matter of becoming used to timing and being consistent with your shots so you kills stuff quickly enough for it not to overwhelm you.

It's only difficult if you don't have the correct environment to learn, ie: most public groups.

If you're on Origin feel free to add me and join one of our Gold runs. We're really friendly, we won't mind you dropping if you're not used to it, and you;ll soon see the benefit of really investing in gold.

Origin name same as forum name.

[Zenning]

mekabar77 wrote...

Zenning wrote...
So, the more lag you have, the more you have to lead your target.  With barely any lag, headshotting somebody on the other side of the map is stupidly easy, with the amount of lag I got with him, I'd have about a .3 second lag between my shot, and when it'd actually hit something.  With some practice, you'll see me headshotting Phantom's on the other side of the map in that video we had.

Like he said, there's skill invovled, and it takes time learn how to lead it effectivly,  but once you do, it works amazingly.

Accounting for lag doesn't solve the issue in many cases. Unless you are hosting the game the Graal, like all projectile weapons, happens to fire blank shots, that simply deal no damage. I have had this happen in countless cases, when carefully aiming a headshot on an immobilized target (stasis) simply fails to register. Lag is not the issue here.

The Graal does not fire blanks.  I can confirm this.  Everyonce in awhile it does no damage at all, but that's something every weapon does.  Once again, check out that video, in it, I sometimes didn't do damage (It ended up coming in later, all at once, just takes a tad, that's why sometimes the Atlas takes more damage than it should of).

And yes, I could of been more effective if I had no lag, but I would not of been more effective with the GPS.  That's for sure.


Edit: Let me add, I'm not bragging, at least not on purpose..  I think anybody can do this with practice.  You just have to practice to do it.

Modifié par Zenning, 17 avril 2012 - 07:49 .

[James D Sidious]

Stardusk wrote...

I am kind of getting tired of answering this question, which has been posed to me for each video I make, as to why I choose the Graal over the GPS. It has been asked 1000x and I answered it in one of my audio commentaries. This is going to be the official thread to answer this question permanently.

Everyone loves the GPS and many people don't like the Graal but the reason why this is so is rather transparent. The GPS is, quite frankly, a beginner's weapon, easy to use, easy to handle and thus its wide spread appeal is explained. The Graal on the other hand, is hard to use, hard to handle and has a much steeper learning curve and it does not 'just work' like the autoaiming GPS does, foregone conclusion of many, the Graal is crap. To this I answer, bull****. That does not mean the GPS is crap either imo, but it noticeably requires less skill. But in its overall utility, in the hands of a skilled player the Graal is devasting and is better than the GPS for combat heavy classes. But I repeat, people do not like the Graal BECAUSE they cannot use it properly. Everyone I know who can use it will confirm alongside myself, that it is easily the king of shotguns and possibly all guns in overall utility and power.

Both the GPS reliably stagger (the Graal more so though) so that is one common point; they both can be charged, so another but that is where the similiarities end.

The Graal allows for consistent long ranged headshots (the deadliest of almost any weapon, because it ignores shield gate). On my Batarian Soldier I can one headshot any Cerberus type charged up from range except a phantom, with a Shotgun rail amp of at least one I can oneshot anything and this can be done from across the map. A charged Graal shot uses only one shot, the GPS uses two, so you effectively have the same number of charged shots. The Graal is effective at point blank, short range, long range and medium range and all of those ranges are good for headshots. The GPS stops being useful after medium range and OSOK headshots are very difficult to achieve. The Graal also seems to be somewhat more consistent in the stagger effect than the GPS, another added bonus. You have in total more charged up shots with the Graal than with the GPS, another added bonus. Finally, if you get semi-consistent headshots your DPS will be higher with the Graal than the GPS.

So, in conclusion, the GPS is 'nice' but a beginner's weapon, which why people like it, being easy to use. The Graal is an advanced player's weapon, but with practice anyone can become better with it and then become deadly. It really is the all in one gun/shotgun with almost no weaknesses if used properly. Watch my videos along with the one with Zenning and tell me you think the Graal sucks and stop asking me why I use it instead of the GPS!

I use the Claymore

[Elijini]

Stardusk wrote...

The_mango55 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

That is the skill involved. You need to lead it.

But if you aren't hosting then any attempt you make to lead your target will just be guesstimation.

I'm not saying "it's useless if you don't host" because I use it all the time and I never host. But clearly it's much better when you host, more so than most other weapons.

Sure. But the idea that the GPS is just plain better is a fallacy.

Well...

It is objectively better. Its more versatile. It is usable in a wider array of hands. You can jump up and down all day screaming about how its only better for unskilled players, and you're such a super pro. But at the end of the day, the weapon which is more effective over a wider audience, is in fact better. Thats how things work, if there are two items of equal or similar value, and one is particularly more user friendly than the other, then it is the better of the two.

Your Graal may be better in more experienced hands, but the outliers dont define such a thing, the baseline does.

And finally this entire topic could be answered with 'Because I want to, its my personal preference and I can use whicheever I like. Thanks for asking.'


Now to wait for you to reply and say something dismissive like 'Its only better if you have no skill.'
You've done that a few times to people within this topic that say GPS is more verasilte/wider accessable, and it sort of loses any gain you make in promoting this weapon by making you out to be an elitist douche.

Modifié par Elijini, 17 avril 2012 - 07:52 .

[Zenning]

James D Sidious wrote...

I use the Claymore

To be honest..  I kinda suck with the Claymore.  I'm just no good at taking one shot and backing up.  Even with the Exploding blades, I just need to shoot one more time to Stagger that goddamn Phantom before I feel it's safe to punch em.

[zhk3r]

squidney2k1 wrote...

Graal is great if you can land headshot after headshot.

But other than that, the GPS is just easier to use and more versatile. Not saying that the Graal is bad at all---I actually prefer the Graal in most cases---but just that the GPS is probably a "better overall weapon," with a grain of salt.

Stardusk wrote... 

...for unskilled players.

> GPS is for nubs .. M'kay.
> Graal is for pros .. M'kay.

You're clearly a superb player! I mean, saying that one weapon is nub-friendly and another is only good in the hands of a real pro - I assume you classify yourself as a pro player. I don't cosider myself pro, in any way - But using the Graal is not a problem, it's a fun and effective gun, but I like the GPS better. I like the way it looks, feels and operates more than I do the Graal. Then again; In my opinion the Claymore is the best shotgun in the game. But that's not what I'm going to comment on. You say the GPS is for unskilled players and the Graal is for pro's. 

Are you going to make a comparison between the Javelin and the Widow. I mean, you have to charge the Javelin, making you a far better shot than with the Widow where you can get "lucky" and hit a quickscope before the Javelin is even charged. Better yet: Are you a better player if you use the Phalanx over the Carnifex? I mean, you have to invest more bullets to kill someone. They're both charge weapons, and one's got a bad repuation because it operates even more poorly off-host. It's like using the Kishock off-host, it's not a good idea. 

I'm sorry but your comment really got to me as I use the GPS on my Geth and Adepts a lot. I don't see myself carrying a Grall on my Asari any time soon. But I guess I'm not as pro as you. 

[Peer of the Empire]

GPS is better for battlemaster because of the way charge + charged shot works, and actually handles guardians better.

Otherwise on other classes I might use Graal

EDIT: Still, those headshots are pretty nasty, and it is a krogan weapon.  The sustained damage on non headshottable bosses leaves much to be desired however

Modifié par Peer of the Empire, 18 avril 2012 - 02:44 .

[KainD]

Which video Zenning?

[Zenning]

Elijini wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

The_mango55 wrote...

Stardusk wrote...

That is the skill involved. You need to lead it.

But if you aren't hosting then any attempt you make to lead your target will just be guesstimation.

I'm not saying "it's useless if you don't host" because I use it all the time and I never host. But clearly it's much better when you host, more so than most other weapons.

Sure. But the idea that the GPS is just plain better is a fallacy.

Well...

It is objectively better. Its more versatile. It is usable in a wider array of hands. You can jump up and down all day screaming about how its only better for unskilled players, and you're such a super pro. But at the end of the day, the weapon which is more effective over a wider audience, is in fact better. Thats how things work, if there are two items of equal or similar value, and one is particularly more user friendly than the other, then it is the better of the two.

Your Graal may be better in more experience hands, but the outliers dont define such a thing, the baseline does.

And finally this entire topic could be answered with 'Because I want to, its my personal preference and I can use whicheever I like. Thanks for asking.'


Now to wait for you to reply and say something dismissive like 'Its only better if you have no skill.'
You've done that a few times to people within this topic that say GPS is more verasilte/wider accessable, and it sort of losses any gain you make in promoting this weapon by making you out to be an elitist douche.

Err..  Objectivly better?  It has lower DPS, can't do headshots, cant auto stagger, weighs less (Or does it?!  DUN DUN DUN!) and is less effective at long ranges than the Graal.

It's easier to use yes, and if we're talking about reliability, it is objectivly better.  But If we're talking about most other things, the Graal is objectivly better.

Modifié par Zenning, 17 avril 2012 - 07:56 .

[nuculerman]

defleshing wrote...

gps is the most balanced weapon in this game. in the hands of anyone it can reek havoc from any distance.

Fixed.  All you do is charge point and let go.  What a vet brings to the table has nothing to do with the GPS.

Modifié par nuculerman, 17 avril 2012 - 08:00 .

[Zenning]

KainD wrote...

Which video Zenning?

Two man video on this topic.


http://social.biowar.../index/11438048

[KainD]

nuculerman wrote...

defleshing wrote...

gps is the most balanced weapon in this game. in the hands of anyone it can reek havoc from any distance.

Fixed.  All you do is charge point and let go.  What a vet brings to the table has nothing to do with the GPS.

Well aside from reflexes and good aim. 

[KainD]

Zenning wrote...

KainD wrote...

Which video Zenning?

Two man video on this topic.


http://social.biowar.../index/11438048

Ok, thanks. 

[Elijini]

Did you read anything other than the first words Zenning? As per rest of post, its objectively better due to being a more user friendly mass applicable weapon. Overall playability.

Yes, the Graal is better at a list of things stat wise, but its more of a niche/finesse based weapon. Im sure saying this instantly qualifies me for being a 'noob' or 'unskilled' but whatever. OP said it too, Im just repeating the same things and being more realistic and less of a super-pro instead of just stamping my feet and saying the issues are user based.

[James D Sidious]

Zenning wrote...

James D Sidious wrote...

I use the Claymore

To be honest..  I kinda suck with the Claymore.  I'm just no good at taking one shot and backing up.  Even with the Exploding blades, I just need to shoot one more time to Stagger that goddamn Phantom before I feel it's safe to punch em.

once you get used to it, the claymore is a headshot machine. and if you spec for faster reload with the geth infiltrator you can easily dominate on Gold.

sneaking up on phantoms and headshotting them is quite fun

Modifié par James D Sidious, 17 avril 2012 - 08:03 .

[zhk3r]

James D Sidious wrote...

once you get used to it, the claymore is a headshot machine. and if you spec for faster reload with the geth infiltrator you can easily dominate on Gold.

sneaking up on phantoms and headshotting them is quite fun

If you play on PC the reload is under a second anyway since you can use reload-exploits without going into cover or using an ability. Applies for all weapons, but is extremely useful on the Claymore and one-shot sniper rifles.

[KainD]

James D Sidious wrote...

once you get used to it, the claymore is a headshot machine. and if you spec for faster reload with the geth infiltrator you can easily dominate on Gold.

sneaking up on phantoms and headshotting them is quite fun

Still inferior to GPS. 

[Zenning]

Elijini wrote...

Did you read anything other than the first words Zenning? As per rest of post, its objectively better due to being a more user friendly mass applicable weapon. Overall playability.

Yes, the Graal is better at a list of things stat wise, but its more of a niche/finesse based weapon. Im sure saying this instantly qualifies me for being a 'noob' or 'unskilled' but whatever. OP said it too, Im just repeating the same things and being more realistic and less of a super-pro instead of just stamping my feet and saying the issues are user based.

I did read that, and nobodies saying people who don't use the Graal is a noob.  It's just that in top of the line performance, the Graal out performs it.  Period.    Reliability is nice, but with "Super Pros" the Graal will always outpreform the GPS.

Once again, No, you're not a noob for using the GPS, and if you prefer it still, thats fine.  But objectivly, if two players are able to use the GPS and Graal to Maximum effectivness, the Graal will win. 

[James D Sidious]

KainD wrote...

James D Sidious wrote...

once you get used to it, the claymore is a headshot machine. and if you spec for faster reload with the geth infiltrator you can easily dominate on Gold.

sneaking up on phantoms and headshotting them is quite fun

Still inferior to GPS. 

to be honest i have both on X, i still prefer the Claymore tough. but that's just my preference

[Zenning]

KainD wrote...

James D Sidious wrote...

once you get used to it, the claymore is a headshot machine. and if you spec for faster reload with the geth infiltrator you can easily dominate on Gold.

sneaking up on phantoms and headshotting them is quite fun

Still inferior to GPS. 

Now.. I know you're kidding but the two weapons are for completely different play styles, and situations.  The Claymore is for up close and personal use, and it's for massive damage.  In terms of damage, the Claymore with AP seems to outdamage every other weapon in the game vs bosses (Even Snipers it seems.)