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[Zenning]

KainD wrote...

Zenning wrote...

Function reliably?  Once again.  The two man video I linked to earlier.  It show's me and Stardusk use the Graal.  Me and him were on literally the oppisite sides of the planet, and we had a very comparable score (I even out scored him slightly).  We both used Graals.

With enough skill, the latency issue becomes non-existant.  Unlike many projectiles, the Graal does not have the misfire issue that the Kishock, Falcon, and Striker have.

Watched that video btw. You did pretty good with Graal, but boy does Batarian suck, that's my opinion of course. I liked the falcon punches though. 

But here's a thing on a little earlier topic - I don't know how it works for you, and I don't know why, but when I shoot phantoms with my GPS the stagger rate is 100%. Seriously. 

Batarian's don't suck, that's for sure.  The main issue is, they are not damage dealers.  They are much more crowd control artists.  We don't have a very effective way to take out Boss enemies (Other than primes who we can in fact stun lock to death with Blades + Heavy Melee combo's).  We are also the second best class in the game for dealing with Phantom's and Brutes (Losing only to Human Vanguards for Both, who are tied with Asari for Phantoms).  We are also the most effective CQC class in the game.  We just weren't playing a CQC mission like Glacier.  It was really for proof of concept that they can be awesome in any situation (And we proved that).

And err to the guy above you.  Nobody is writing off the GPS.  It's just that, yes, it is much easier to use.  It is a good gun, but in terms of damage, range, and blah blah blah blah, the Graal does trump it with a skilled player.

You are not a less skilled player for not using it either, or any of that jazz.  You may be a bad person (Cause GPS people tend to be bad people), but that doesn't mean we're better than you for using the Graal instead of the GPS or anything.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

Zenning wrote...

KainD wrote...

Zenning wrote...

Function reliably?  Once again.  The two man video I linked to earlier.  It show's me and Stardusk use the Graal.  Me and him were on literally the oppisite sides of the planet, and we had a very comparable score (I even out scored him slightly).  We both used Graals.

With enough skill, the latency issue becomes non-existant.  Unlike many projectiles, the Graal does not have the misfire issue that the Kishock, Falcon, and Striker have.

Watched that video btw. You did pretty good with Graal, but boy does Batarian suck, that's my opinion of course. I liked the falcon punches though. 

But here's a thing on a little earlier topic - I don't know how it works for you, and I don't know why, but when I shoot phantoms with my GPS the stagger rate is 100%. Seriously. 

Batarian's don't suck, that's for sure.  The main issue is, they are not damage dealers.  They are much more crowd control artists.  We don't have a very effective way to take out Boss enemies (Other than primes who we can in fact stun lock to death with Blades + Heavy Melee combo's).  We are also the second best class in the game for dealing with Phantom's and Brutes (Losing only to Human Vanguards for Both, who are tied with Asari for Phantoms).  We are also the most effective CQC class in the game.  We just weren't playing a CQC mission like Glacier.  It was really for proof of concept that they can be awesome in any situation (And we proved that).

And err to the guy above you.  Nobody is writing off the GPS.  It's just that, yes, it is much easier to use.  It is a good gun, but in terms of damage, range, and blah blah blah blah, the Graal does trump it with a skilled player.

You are not a less skilled player for not using it either, or any of that jazz.  You may be a bad person (Cause GPS people tend to be bad people), but that doesn't mean we're better than you for using the Graal instead of the GPS or anything.

Human Vanguards are best for Brutes? I see them get chokeslammed all the time. Better just to pick any kind of self-detonating biotics artist , though yeah, Batarian Soldier puts the screws to Reapers like almost no other class.

What do you mean by "bad people"? That might have something to do with overrepresentation from all the GPS users out there (in comparison to Graal users, who are smaller in number).

[Bad Alchemy]

Im sure it was Stardusk's Batarian video that opened my eyes to the Graal's use. The reason I like it is for setting up heavy melee or allowing you to run by the stun/slight knock back that it delivers. Also it fires really fast!

Modifié par Bad Alchemy, 17 avril 2012 - 12:03 .

[Zenning]

DaftArbiter wrote...

Zenning wrote...

KainD wrote...

Zenning wrote...

Function reliably?  Once again.  The two man video I linked to earlier.  It show's me and Stardusk use the Graal.  Me and him were on literally the oppisite sides of the planet, and we had a very comparable score (I even out scored him slightly).  We both used Graals.

With enough skill, the latency issue becomes non-existant.  Unlike many projectiles, the Graal does not have the misfire issue that the Kishock, Falcon, and Striker have.

Watched that video btw. You did pretty good with Graal, but boy does Batarian suck, that's my opinion of course. I liked the falcon punches though. 

But here's a thing on a little earlier topic - I don't know how it works for you, and I don't know why, but when I shoot phantoms with my GPS the stagger rate is 100%. Seriously. 

Batarian's don't suck, that's for sure.  The main issue is, they are not damage dealers.  They are much more crowd control artists.  We don't have a very effective way to take out Boss enemies (Other than primes who we can in fact stun lock to death with Blades + Heavy Melee combo's).  We are also the second best class in the game for dealing with Phantom's and Brutes (Losing only to Human Vanguards for Both, who are tied with Asari for Phantoms).  We are also the most effective CQC class in the game.  We just weren't playing a CQC mission like Glacier.  It was really for proof of concept that they can be awesome in any situation (And we proved that).

And err to the guy above you.  Nobody is writing off the GPS.  It's just that, yes, it is much easier to use.  It is a good gun, but in terms of damage, range, and blah blah blah blah, the Graal does trump it with a skilled player.

You are not a less skilled player for not using it either, or any of that jazz.  You may be a bad person (Cause GPS people tend to be bad people), but that doesn't mean we're better than you for using the Graal instead of the GPS or anything.

Human Vanguards are best for Brutes? I see them get chokeslammed all the time. Better just to pick any kind of self-detonating biotics artist , though yeah, Batarian Soldier puts the screws to Reapers like almost no other class.

What do you mean by "bad people"? That might have something to do with overrepresentation from all the GPS users out there (in comparison to Graal users, who are smaller in number).

I'm just kiddin'.  Taking a crack at people who disagree with me is what I do!

Also, a Bad Vanguard get's choke slammed by them (Mainly because they don't watch for their melee, and let themselves get corned), a good vanguard will take em out very quickly, and lead em away from the group.

[Dunmer of Redoran]

I think "diversion" is better for a Batarian Soldier tbh. Ballistic blades make whatever you attack look at you, but the Batarian has the same movement speed humans do, except with absolutely superior HP. Actually, I do that all the time with teams--I see Banshees/Brutes close in on people, run up, Ballistic Blades, kite them, throw Inferno grenades every now and again and pump shotgun ammo into them with blades fired as necessary.

Batarian Soldier is an excellent class. Sentinel isn't bad either but explosive ballistic blades coupled with a staggering shotgun (Graal or GPS) makes for a Reapers' worst nightmare.

[Zenning]

DaftArbiter wrote...

I think "diversion" is better for a Batarian Soldier tbh. Ballistic blades make whatever you attack look at you, but the Batarian has the same movement speed humans do, except with absolutely superior HP. Actually, I do that all the time with teams--I see Banshees/Brutes close in on people, run up, Ballistic Blades, kite them, throw Inferno grenades every now and again and pump shotgun ammo into them with blades fired as necessary.

Batarian Soldier is an excellent class. Sentinel isn't bad either but explosive ballistic blades coupled with a staggering shotgun (Graal or GPS) makes for a Reapers' worst nightmare.

Actually, Batarian's move faster than Humans.  I believe they are the same speed as Drell.

No, I don't know why.  It's just wierd.  And yes, they are absolutely great for pullin' aggro.  That, and the multiple staggers they can do, and they can keep a group of enemies from attackin' while they systamatically mow them down no problem.

[tonnactus]

The shredder mod didnt work when installed on the gps. So it sucks against guardians.

[Zenning]

tonnactus wrote...

The shredder mod didnt work when installed on the gps. So it sucks against guardians.

This is true.  Of course, it doesn't work for the Graal either.  But, the Graal can shoot through the mail slot.

[Lajkos]

becaus it's fun to mailslot guardians on the other side of the map with a sg

[KainD]

Now, now Zenning - Infiltrator is the best class at dealing with Brutes and phantoms, followed by Asari and Vanguards. =)

[LemonStimpacks]

Zenning wrote...
Actually, Batarian's move faster than Humans.  I believe they are the same speed as Drell.

Just tested because I didn't believe this.
I couldn't notice a speed difference between humans and batarians and they surely don't have drell speed.

Please don't post misinformation OT, it makes it hard for people to notice and prove wrong for info's sake °.°'

Modifié par LemonStimpacks, 17 avril 2012 - 12:45 .

[LemonStimpacks]

Zenning wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

The shredder mod didnt work when installed on the gps. So it sucks against guardians.

This is true.  Of course, it doesn't work for the Graal either.  But, the Graal can shoot through the mail slot.

So can the gps if you charge it and aim for the head pretending there's no shield.. is this pro-graal campaign you're establishing even needed

[peddroelm]

Quxorda wrote...

All shotguns but the Crusader fire multiple projectiles, thus all shotguns ignore shield gating.

Bull@#$@#$ ... Each projectile is treated individually - and one of them is bound to be "wasted" on the shield gate... 

Here is how it works

Shotguns and Shield gate

============
test Shotgun shield gate insanity marauder Scimitar V


0 shield HP body shot vs health


1800 - 1226.0576 = 573.9424 (/8 = 71.7428 damage per pellet)

======================

1 shield hp body shot

1800 - 1297.8004 = 502.1996 (71.7428 * 7 = 502.1996) {one pellet (first) stopped by the shield gate}

============


75 HP shield

1800 - 1369.5432 = 430.4568 (71.7428 * 6 = 430.4568) {first pellet does normal damage to shield, 2-ond pellet gets wasted on shield gate , rest 6 damage health}

===========

Modifié par peddroelmz, 17 avril 2012 - 12:50 .

[Aaperture]

Stardusk wrote...

D4rk50ul808 wrote...

This arguement is retarded. You basically say anyone who doesn't agree is unskilled. I find that I can run through Gold using any weapon and place top 2, usually first yet I don't really like the Graal so that means I am unskilled?

No, but what I am saying is that most people complaining about the Graal cannot use it properly because if they could, they would not complain about it.

I can use my Graal perfectly fine, but I prefer the GPS.

Why would I gimp myself with a harder to use weapon?

[Noelemahc]

I can use my Graal perfectly fine, but I prefer the GPS.

Why would I gimp myself with a harder to use weapon?

It comes down to a matter of taste, in my opinion. The GPS lets you snipe, auto-aims, can kill shielded guys easily and is a boon to crowd control. It's also very pretty.
The Graal lets you oneshot stuff, can kill shielded guys easily, is a bona fide Atlas murderizer and is as manly a weapon as can get.

They are both fine weapons, and if you like the GPS over the Graal, who's to forbid you to use it?

The OP's point was that the overall hate for the Graal is unfounded, is all, as I understand it.

[Drummernate]

The Graal is nowhere close to the stagger of the GPS....
The GPS has a 98% chance of staggering targets no matter what. Even on Gold, you just can't stagger them while they are already staggered, duh.
Graal only staggers if more than 2 spikes hit and if it hits the upper portion of the target.
(Above the waist usually)

The Claymore is actually the king of shotguns and always will be, it can oneshot every single unit other than mega units, no matter what. Primes take 3-4 shots, and Banshees take like 9.

The range on the Claymore is about 250% longer than people think, you can consistently get headshots at ranges up to 120-150 feet.

Graal is nearly impossible to use without being host seeing as the already 1-2 second fly time is increased to about 3-5 seconds.

[Kevlar Eater]

I use whichever shotgun doesn't make me a liability if I'm not host. The Crusader and GPS are such guns.

[Xyrm]

I think what class you play is important in this decision, too. Geth infiltrators will almost certainly prefer the GPS thanks to the additional damage of their passive to Geth weapons, and as a Vanguard I prefer the GPS, mainly because it can take out enemies far away and I rarely fire my gun at nearby enemies. I have a GPS X, a Claymore X, and a Graal IX, and I almost always go with the GPS (the claymore is too heavy to use for a vanguard, and the Graal even as the host is finicky at point-blank range. I agree the ability to headshot is awesome and gives the Graal higher potential damage, but the easy of snapping off a quick shot without spending time aiming between nova's makes the GPS preferred to me.

I agree that if I was playing a Krogan Vanguard or Batarian anything, I'd probably prefer the Graal.

[sheltomlee]

Graal X = Holy Grail of shotguns

[RinShepard]

DaftArbiter wrote...

Human Vanguards are best for Brutes? I see them get chokeslammed all the time. Better just to pick any kind of self-detonating biotics artist , though yeah, Batarian Soldier puts the screws to Reapers like almost no other class.

Only bad Human Vanguards get grabbed by Brutes. Brutes do a melee attack before they attempt to grab. When you Charge one, move away from the Brute during your following Nova so that you are just outside their range but they are still in your Nova range.

You will never get grabbed by Brutes, Atlases, or Phantoms if you do this. And good human vanguards can hold off multiple Brutes at the same time on Gold without getting grabbed. The brutes won't be attacking your allies, they won't be hurting you, and they'll be dying all at the same time.

[BraveLToaster]

sheltomlee wrote...

Graal X = Holy Grail of shotguns

Except for my trusty Claymore X on classes that don't need power recharge (looking at you Infiltrator).

[Noelemahc]

Only bad Human Vanguards get grabbed by Brutes. Brutes do a melee attack before they attempt to grab. When you Charge one, move away from the Brute during your following Nova so that you are just outside their range but they are still in your Nova range.

Brutes have a grab attack? Honestly? I have killed my fair share of Brutes with melee, both in SP and MP, and am yet to see how that one works. What am I doing wrong?
(that said, I only use Asari Vanguard, and go melee only as Infiltrators and Soldiers)

[Core_Commander]

Noelemahc wrote...

Only bad Human Vanguards get grabbed by Brutes. Brutes do a melee attack before they attempt to grab. When you Charge one, move away from the Brute during your following Nova so that you are just outside their range but they are still in your Nova range.

Brutes have a grab attack? Honestly? I have killed my fair share of Brutes with melee, both in SP and MP, and am yet to see how that one works. What am I doing wrong?
(that said, I only use Asari Vanguard, and go melee only as Infiltrators and Soldiers)

Some time ago a BW employee mentioned that only Banshee has a truly random grab attack. I guess brute's "requirements" to perform it are hard to fulfill in a game, since usually things in its melee range are either dead or moving away.

I've seen it happen maybe twice so far, and I must say it's always hilarious.

[vGriMz]

I just tried the Graal X on Bronze against Cerberus.
That thing does damage. Then I tried it on Silver. There's some difference, but it's still awesome.
Then I tried it on Gold. And damn, it still packs damage. It's accurate, and easier to use than the Geth Plasma Shotgun (I usually miss with that).

[Bioticgodx]

Human Vanguards are best for Brutes? I see them get chokeslammed all the time. Better just to pick any kind of self-detonating biotics artist , though yeah, Batarian Soldier puts the screws to Reapers like almost no other class.

What do you mean by "bad people"? That might have something to do with overrepresentation from all the GPS users out there (in comparison to Graal users, who are smaller in number).

Here is Vanguard protip against Brutes for you.
1.maintain some distance with Brute
2.wait for it to charge you
3.counter-attack with biotic charge
4.Brute hit nothing

Modifié par Bioticgodx, 17 avril 2012 - 02:33 .