227 réponses à ce sujet

[Action Bawstard]

If I could build my own ship like a Gummi ship in Kingdom Hearts...completely made out of Thanix Cannons. I would regret nothing.

[Elite Midget]

When in doubt bring a Thanix Cannon.

[Harbinger of your Destiny]

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

Funny then that every single time we watch a space battle they are using kinetic weapons.

Please read this post on page 5 and the commentary that follows, and re-assess your belief.

Those aren't thanix cannons.

[Reth Shepherd]

To be fair, the entirety of the ending battle cinematic goes against everything the codex says and the developers are aware of it. (In addition to the missing Thanix cannons, it is also stated that space battles are very short as guns create so much heat that a ship can only fire for a short time before being forced to jump away to find a place to radiate said excess heat.

[Orthodox Infidel]

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

Harbinger of your Destiny wrote...

Funny then that every single time we watch a space battle they are using kinetic weapons.

Please read this post on page 5 and the commentary that follows, and re-assess your belief.

Those aren't thanix cannons.

Then you're delusional or overly-pedantic.

[ImperatorMortis]

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

The following text appears in the Codex in Mass Effect 3:

After the Battle of the Citadel, human and turian volunteers spent three months clearing the station's orbit of debris. During the cleanup, the turians secretly salvaged Sovereign's powerful main gun along with much of the weapon's element zero core. Eleven months later, the turians introduced the Thanix, a scaled-down version of the weapon.The Thanix's core is a liquid alloy of iron, uranium, and tungsten suspended in an electromagnetic field powered by element zero. The molten metal, accelerated to a significant fraction of the speed of light, solidifies into a projectile as it is fired, hitting targets with enough force to pierce any known shield or armor. The gun can fire reliably every five seconds.The weapon's relatively small size allows it to be mounted on most fighters or frigates. It is now widely used by the Alliance military and is the primary weapon on the refurbished Normandy SR-2.

I'm going to quote the most relevant portion of that again, for emphasis:

It is now widely used by the Alliance military and is the primary weapon on the refurbished Normandy SR-2.

See that in red? Widely used by the Alliance military. Widely used. 

Now that I've pointed it out in red letters, I don't want to see any more "WE SHOULD BEAT THEM BY MAKING MOAR THANIX CANNONS INSTEAD OF THE CRUCIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111oneonoeneoneoneoenoenoenoneo" arguments.  Thanix cannons are already common equipment, and they didn't amount to a hill of beans. 

Yes, I know that the Crucible is an incredibly contrived plot device and presents an unsatisfying solution to a difficult problem. But "Thanix Cannons" aren't an answer to what this plot device could have been replaced with. So, please shut up, or come up with a better answer. Thanks.

Because people are gonna listen to you, and give a **** about what you say/think, right? 

[Orthodox Infidel]

Reth Shepherd wrote...

To be fair, the entirety of the ending battle cinematic goes against everything the codex says and the developers are aware of it. (In addition to the missing Thanix cannons, it is also stated that space battles are very short as guns create so much heat that a ship can only fire for a short time before being forced to jump away to find a place to radiate said excess heat.

The Thanix cannons aren't missing, but yes, the heat radiation point is valid. Then again, they don't quantify what the short time is, so they can try to weasel out of that one.

I know in reality, a space battle of the type described in the codex would only last a few minutes before the excess heat started boiling the crew to death. But there is some evidence to suggest that ships in the Mass Effect universe have heat sinks that are vastly more effective than any existing or plausibly-predictable technology.

[Orthodox Infidel]

ImperatorMortis wrote...
Because people are gonna listen to you, and give a **** about what you say/think, right? 

Several people did throughout the thread, and it prompted a thoughtful conversation about the nature of the ending in general. Maybe you should educate yourself rather than try to make yourself seem as though you're on the moral high ground here.

[Averdi]

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

The Thanix cannons aren't missing.........

I can't recall seeing a single thanix cannon in in use during ending cinematic, or any ME3 space battle presentations, for that matter.  Not by the alliance, not by the turians, not by the quarians.  If you can point out where I missed this, I'd be quite interested.

However, even if a cannon went off here and there, there's no way that they were 'widely' employed as the codex suggests they are.  This is just a problem with the story, and I suspect a conscious one - the writers created something too powerful with the thanix, and needed to effectively remove it from the ally fleet, lest they perform too well against the reapers.  Hence the critcism.

[Orthodox Infidel]

Averdi wrote...

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

The Thanix cannons aren't missing.........

I can't recall seeing a single thanix cannon in in use during ending cinematic, or any ME3 space battle presentations, for that matter.  Not by the alliance, not by the turians, not by the quarians.  If you can point out where I missed this, I'd be quite interested.

However, even if a cannon went off here and there, there's no way that they were 'widely' employed as the codex suggests they are.  This is just a problem with the story, and I suspect a conscious one - the writers created something too powerful with the thanix, and needed to effectively remove it from the ally fleet, lest they perform too well against the reapers.  Hence the critcism.

Orthodox Infidel wrote on the previous page...
Please read this post on page 5 and the commentary that follows, and re-assess your belief.

[cachx]

 If you carefully read trough the War Assets details, even the crappy Quarian ships are outfitted with thanix cannons. I didn't know that was even into question.

However this raises a couple of points:
a- Bioware completely forgot how a thanix shot looks like
b- They nerfed the cannons power to not lose the "desperate battle" feeling we are supposoded to have.
c- The Collector ship was really weak all along.

[Drummernate]

You can clearly see the Reaper getting pwned in the final battle above Earth.
Yeah it takes like 6 shots but it does blow its leg off.

Concentrated fire would make Reapers obsolete.

Unfortunately they like to all spam shots with only 20% of them actually hitting.... -.-


EDIT::::: Actually after re-watching it, they blow each leg off with one shot.

Modifié par Drummernate, 22 avril 2012 - 04:51 .

[Zolt51]

Vespervin wrote...

/goodbye

I can only wish that when people say goodbye it was *for reals*!

[Orthodox Infidel]

cachx wrote...

 If you carefully read trough the War Assets details, even the crappy Quarian ships are outfitted with thanix cannons. I didn't know that was even into question.

However this raises a couple of points:
a- Bioware completely forgot how a thanix shot looks like
b- They nerfed the cannons power to not lose the "desperate battle" feeling we are supposoded to have.
c- The Collector ship was really weak all along.

Admiral Raan also says that they strapped thanix cannons to liveships if you ask her about the size of the Quarian fleet vs. the Turians (I don't remember what that dialog option is called). Joker mentions how it's a poor idea to strap a cannon to your kid's schoolbus and go to war with it. So it's more than just the War Asset text; it's in the script.

Also, I'm inclined to accept point C. If you don't get the cannon upgrade in ME2, the Collector Ship goes down in four shots instead of two, I think (it's been a while since I saw that scene). 

[Averdi]

Orthodox Infidel wrote on the previous page...

Please read this post on page 5 and the commentary that follows, and re-assess your belief.

Ummm, those pretty obviously are not thanix cannons.

The ones fired from the cruisers are mass drivers:
- Thanix is a stream, those clearly have a head and tail
- Their impact on the reaper ships is clearly a single impact
- The closeup of the firing of such shots indicates that it was a sigle shot.
- It's suspicious that the allies could open fire (with thanix) at greater range than the reapers, when superior reaper fire control should let their beam weapons outrange thanix.

As for the Normandy, those look far more like the torpedoes than thanix to me:
- They also don't appear to be a solid stream.
- There's two of them, firing from the same place that the torpedoes did in ME2, not the central gun in the nose.

As for the fighters, since they are also not streams, but concentrated shots, I'm going to go with them being mass drivers as well.

Really those pictures bear out the whole conflict - they look and seem to function like mass drivers.  Yes, they're blue, but so were the ally cruisers' mass driver shots in the ME1 battle sequence.  Comparison of those shots with the thanix perormance in ME2 as well as how it's technically described simply reveals a disconnect.

[Averdi]

cachx wrote...

 If you carefully read trough the War Assets details, even the crappy Quarian ships are outfitted with thanix cannons. I didn't know that was even into question.

However this raises a couple of points:
a- Bioware completely forgot how a thanix shot looks like
b- They nerfed the cannons power to not lose the "desperate battle" feeling we are supposoded to have.
c- The Collector ship was really weak all along.

I think they simply decided to forget about them in the final battle for the same reason as option (.  When confronted with the disconnect between what thanix is supposed to be and what we saw in the last ending, I can either believe that they are thanix, but that pretty much everything about them has changed, or they're not thanix.  For me, the second option seems obvious.

[humes spork]

Action Bawstard wrote...

If I could build my own ship like a Gummi ship in Kingdom Hearts...completely made out of Thanix Cannons. I would regret nothing.

But do you put thanix cannons on the thanix cannons? Because if your thanix cannons don't have thanix cannons then 

Me? I'd build a ship out of those air ducts that little kid hides in. Those things soak Reaper beams like a BAWSS. And in the air ducts? Thanix cannons. On the outside of the air ducts? Thanix cannons. And the thanix cannons would have little thanix cannons attached to them, and instead of GARDIAN lasers they'd have little anti-ship thanix cannons. No disruptor torpedos or javelin missiles, more thanix cannons.

And the marines inside would have little handheld thanix cannons. Command staff? Thanix cannons. No pilot, just another thanix cannon. Engineers? Nope. Thanix cannons. Comms relay? Not needed, another thanix cannon. Instead of tightbeam communications ships would shoot thanix cannons at each other in morse code.

And no shields either, that's more power that could go to the thanix cannons. Forget the drive core, put in another really big thanix cannon.

Actually, forget the Crucible and Citadel. Let's just build the Biggest Thanix Cannon ever and shoot it at the Arcturus relay. It'll get shot through the mass-free corridor and kill all the Reapers. Artist's approximation:

Modifié par humes spork, 22 avril 2012 - 05:43 .

[Zkyire]

Orthodox Infidel wrote...

The following text appears in the Codex in Mass Effect 3:

After the Battle of the Citadel, human and turian volunteers spent three months clearing the station's orbit of debris. During the cleanup, the turians secretly salvaged Sovereign's powerful main gun along with much of the weapon's element zero core. Eleven months later, the turians introduced the Thanix, a scaled-down version of the weapon.The Thanix's core is a liquid alloy of iron, uranium, and tungsten suspended in an electromagnetic field powered by element zero. The molten metal, accelerated to a significant fraction of the speed of light, solidifies into a projectile as it is fired, hitting targets with enough force to pierce any known shield or armor. The gun can fire reliably every five seconds.The weapon's relatively small size allows it to be mounted on most fighters or frigates. It is now widely used by the Alliance military and is the primary weapon on the refurbished Normandy SR-2.

I'm going to quote the most relevant portion of that again, for emphasis:

It is now widely used by the Alliance military and is the primary weapon on the refurbished Normandy SR-2.

See that in red? Widely used by the Alliance military. Widely used. 

Now that I've pointed it out in red letters, I don't want to see any more "WE SHOULD BEAT THEM BY MAKING MOAR THANIX CANNONS INSTEAD OF THE CRUCIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111111oneonoeneoneoneoenoenoenoneo" arguments.  Thanix cannons are already common equipment, and they didn't amount to a hill of beans. 

Yes, I know that the Crucible is an incredibly contrived plot device and presents an unsatisfying solution to a difficult problem. But "Thanix Cannons" aren't an answer to what this plot device could have been replaced with. So, please shut up, or come up with a better answer. Thanks.

What the Codex says, and what actually happens are two completely different things.

Thanix cannons are SUPPOSED to be widely used, but not one single Thanix cannon was shown to be fired throughout the entirety of Mass Effect 3. Not one. Why? Because they wouldn't have needed the Crucible.

[GLR-0053]

Okay, done they are now retconned.

I hope BioWare does that in the Extended Cut after all the Normandy is way over powered.

[Orthodox Infidel]

Averdi wrote...

Orthodox Infidel wrote on the previous page...

Please read this post on page 5 and the commentary that follows, and re-assess your belief.

Ummm, those pretty obviously are not thanix cannons.

The ones fired from the cruisers are mass drivers:
- Thanix is a stream, those clearly have a head and tail

It looks like a stream at ludicrously close range. It's entirely possible that it doesn't look like a stream at far range.

- Their impact on the reaper ships is clearly a single impact
- The closeup of the firing of such shots indicates that it was a sigle shot.

It's a less magical spectacular looking shot. But it's the same kind of shot.

- It's suspicious that the allies could open fire (with thanix) at greater range than the reapers, when superior reaper fire control should let their beam weapons outrange thanix.

There is no evidence to support this assertion.

As for the Normandy, those look far more like the torpedoes than thanix to me:
- They also don't appear to be a solid stream.
- There's two of them, firing from the same place that the torpedoes did in ME2, not the central gun in the nose.

It could be a bandwidth problem, as several images are no longer loading, but I don't see the Normandy firing in any of these screenshots.

As for the fighters, since they are also not streams, but concentrated shots, I'm going to go with them being mass drivers as well.

Really those pictures bear out the whole conflict - they look and seem to function like mass drivers.  Yes, they're blue, but so were the ally cruisers' mass driver shots in the ME1 battle sequence.  Comparison of those shots with the thanix perormance in ME2 as well as how it's technically described simply reveals a disconnect.

A cosmetic rendering disconnect, yes. One that I've acknowledged is a legitimate complaint to make, not only in this cutscene but in others of obvious importance.

[Orthodox Infidel]

Zkyire wrote...

What the Codex says, and what actually happens are two completely different things.

Thanix cannons are SUPPOSED to be widely used, but not one single Thanix cannon was shown to be fired throughout the entirety of Mass Effect 3. Not one. Why? Because they wouldn't have needed the Crucible.

Hi, please read the entire thread where we discuss this at length before pretending as if you have something new to contribute. 

kthxbai

[tvman099]

Thanix missiles.

[Orthodox Infidel]

humes spork wrote...

Action Bawstard wrote...

If I could build my own ship like a Gummi ship in Kingdom Hearts...completely made out of Thanix Cannons. I would regret nothing.

But do you put thanix cannons on the thanix cannons? Because if your thanix cannons don't have thanix cannons then 

Me? I'd build a ship out of those air ducts that little kid hides in. Those things soak Reaper beams like a BAWSS. And in the air ducts? Thanix cannons. On the outside of the air ducts? Thanix cannons. And the thanix cannons would have little thanix cannons attached to them, and instead of GARDIAN lasers they'd have little anti-ship thanix cannons. No disruptor torpedos or javelin missiles, more thanix cannons.

And the marines inside would have little handheld thanix cannons. Command staff? Thanix cannons. No pilot, just another thanix cannon. Engineers? Nope. Thanix cannons. Comms relay? Not needed, another thanix cannon. Instead of tightbeam communications ships would shoot thanix cannons at each other in morse code.

And no shields either, that's more power that could go to the thanix cannons. Forget the drive core, put in another really big thanix cannon.

Actually, forget the Crucible and Citadel. Let's just build the Biggest Thanix Cannon ever and shoot it at the Arcturus relay. It'll get shot through the mass-free corridor and kill all the Reapers. Artist's approximation:

This is awesome on so many levels.

[adam32867]

humes spork wrote...

Action Bawstard wrote...

If I could build my own ship like a Gummi ship in Kingdom Hearts...completely made out of Thanix Cannons. I would regret nothing.

But do you put thanix cannons on the thanix cannons? Because if your thanix cannons don't have thanix cannons then 

Me? I'd build a ship out of those air ducts that little kid hides in. Those things soak Reaper beams like a BAWSS. And in the air ducts? Thanix cannons. On the outside of the air ducts? Thanix cannons. And the thanix cannons would have little thanix cannons attached to them, and instead of GARDIAN lasers they'd have little anti-ship thanix cannons. No disruptor torpedos or javelin missiles, more thanix cannons.

And the marines inside would have little handheld thanix cannons. Command staff? Thanix cannons. No pilot, just another thanix cannon. Engineers? Nope. Thanix cannons. Comms relay? Not needed, another thanix cannon. Instead of tightbeam communications ships would shoot thanix cannons at each other in morse code.

And no shields either, that's more power that could go to the thanix cannons. Forget the drive core, put in another really big thanix cannon.

Actually, forget the Crucible and Citadel. Let's just build the Biggest Thanix Cannon ever and shoot it at the Arcturus relay. It'll get shot through the mass-free corridor and kill all the Reapers. Artist's approximation:

screw hackett put this guy in charge

[IceTrey1987]

SergeantSnookie wrote...

Gun that shoots Thresher Maws>Thanix Cannon

Considering that one shot from a Cain nuke launcher takes out a thresher....

Gun that shoots krogans with Cain launchers > thanix cannon


Honestly it doesn't even matter though.  The thanix ate a collector ship, but a collector ship is garbage compared to a reaper.  The Normandy SR1 held out pretty long against a collector ship in a one on one fight, and it took an entire fleet to bring down Sovereign and then only when it's shields were down because it was fighting both Shepard using Saren's body and the fleet at the same time.


I wish the reapers could've been beaten with pure military strength too, but the makers clearly didn't want that.  I'm just offering up an explanation as to why it can be explained away logically.  The thanix is a weakened version of a reaper beam and I'm fairly sure a reaper would have defenses against their own weapons, since armor and shields strong enough to withstand a reaper laser would be strong enough to hold out for a while against anything.