151 réponses à ce sujet

[Sdrol117]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Just bring the squadmates who are smart enough to wear proper helmets. Problem solved.

POP 
http://achievements....yed Mass Effect

Explain.

Oh gee, I on't get to choose my squadmates for many missions, I'm forced to take them along. Both ME2 and ME3.

For virtually all the missions where you have a forced squadmate, it's not a helmet-needing mission. Mars with Liara is pretty much the only exception to that.

And on top of them forcing squadmates in certain locations, I'm supposed to pick and choose because they have stupid masks on, instead of something that makes sense. Not a solution. 

[Sdrol117]

ForceXev wrote...

Mass effect fields?! Psh, yeah those are totally not real! You know what else bothers me...? Those glowing orange things that just appear out of nowhere on their arms that they can use for communications or to download computer files. I mean, what the hell is THAT!? Oh, and characters that can make people FLY AROUND using their MIND or whatever!? What are they WIZARDS!? Technology like that doesn't exist!!!! Mass Effect is SO FAKE!

Well this topic went right over your head. Why bother commenting? To look foolish?

[Peregrin25]

It didn't bother me too much really seeing as it is science fiction story. However if they had somthing that covered the face like the breather masks in Avatar then that would have made a bit more sense. Seeing as how space is extremely cold anything not covered would flash freeze. But yeah. meh not a big issue for me.

[Sdrol117]

M_othon wrote...

The real answer I think is that full helmets wouldn't integrate well, aesthetically or practically, with a lot of the squadmate attire.
This wasn't a problem in ME1 where pretty much the entire squad is composed of military-type characters (Alliance soldiers, a bounty hunter, a space cop etc), so it was viable for them to always have armor on, and a helmet could be easily implemented.
In ME2, there seems to be an effort to diversify squad appearances; each of their costumes is meant to complement their character. Now you get things like Miranda's catsuit, whatever Jack wears, Kasumi's sneak thief getup etc, all things that make zero sense in a hazardous environment and would look profoundly silly/weird with a viable 'space helmet', so... breather masks.
Yeah, it's a bit silly, but I can easily overlook it, if it allows for more freedom in character design approaches.

That doesn't make any sense. In the slightest. 

[Sgt Stryker]

M_othon wrote...

The real answer I think is that full helmets wouldn't integrate well, aesthetically or practically, with a lot of the squadmate attire.
This wasn't a problem in ME1 where pretty much the entire squad is composed of military-type characters (Alliance soldiers, a bounty hunter, a space cop etc), so it was viable for them to always have armor on, and a helmet could be easily implemented.
In ME2, there seems to be an effort to diversify squad appearances; each of their costumes is meant to complement their character. Now you get things like Miranda's catsuit, whatever Jack wears, Kasumi's sneak thief getup etc, all things that make zero sense in a hazardous environment and would look profoundly silly/weird with a viable 'space helmet', so... breather masks.
Yeah, it's a bit silly, but I can easily overlook it, if it allows for more freedom in character design approaches.

In that case I argue that instead of having one "iconic outfit" for each character, why not have a range of different iconic outfits, depending on the application? Miranda's space-spandex is fine (if somewhat distracting) for walking around on the Normandy or in a safe place like the Citadel, but on combat missions she should definitely be wearing exclusively something like the DLC armor.

Why can't Jack find a piece of old Cerberus armor in a locker on the Normandy, deface the crap out of it with obscenities and markings similar to her tattoos, and wear that in combat?

Samara talks about how Justicars are similar to the errant knights and Samurai from human legends. Why can't she wear practical-looking armor (not cleavage + heels) that evokes the appearance of an alien monk knight?

In ME3 it looks like Liara is already wearing what appears to be a lab coat/space suit combo. Why can't that accomodate a fully-sealed helmet? Hell, one of her alternate outfits is practically a recolor of Ashley's ME3 armor. Why can't that get a helmet?

Mordin was a member of the STG. In fact, his lab coat looks very similar to the armor Kirrahe's soldiers wore on Virmire. I seem to recall some of those guys had helmets. Give Mordin something similar.

The list goes on and on...

[dielveio]

The breather helmet Shepard use don't have a hose to carry oxygen in to the helmet like it used to have in Mass Effect 1 AND in the opening sequence in Mass Effect 2.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

ME3 at least kept you to actual atmospheres except for mars.

Taking jack to a space level was always really funny though.

[Sdrol117]

dielveio wrote...

The breather helmet Shepard use don't have a hose to carry oxygen in to the helmet like it used to have in Mass Effect 1 AND in the opening sequence in Mass Effect 2.

I never thought about that. At least we can pretend it's just built inside his armor for safe keeping now, his suit actually looks practical. 

[Sdrol117]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

ME3 at least kept you to actual atmospheres except for mars.

Taking jack to a space level was always really funny though.

http://achievements.schrankmonster.de/Achievement.aspx?text=Didn't%20play%20passed%20the%20second%20mission

Seriously though, no it didn't. 

[BiancoAngelo7]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Congratulations. You have found a flaw in our otherwise absolutely scientifically accurate game.

Sigh....

Yeah, because there's no difference between explaining away FTL travel with a story element like eezo and expecting people to just ignore things we know to be basic truths like "oh wait, a scuba mask in space won't protect me".

Actually scrap that, at least a scuba mask would protect your eyes, ME3 breathers only cover your mouth.

It's always comforting to see comments from Bioware employees basically say "this is why you're wrong, there couldn't possibly be something wrong with our product".

dielveio wrote...

The breather helmet Shepard use don't
have a hose to carry oxygen in to the helmet like it used to have in
Mass Effect 1 AND in the opening sequence in Mass Effect 2.

I always just assumed the suits evolved and were updated to not need tubes of any kind, makes sens if you think about it, I mean scuba gear today is capable of being a one stage hermetically sealed diving suit without tubes like standard scuba gear, so I always assumed that future space armor that can make shields and HUD's in my helmet can at least provide oxygen without tubes. I liked the design decision actually.

Modifié par BiancoAngelo7, 18 avril 2012 - 02:27 .

[M_othon]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

M_othon wrote...

The real answer I think is that full helmets wouldn't integrate well, aesthetically or practically, with a lot of the squadmate attire.
This wasn't a problem in ME1 where pretty much the entire squad is composed of military-type characters (Alliance soldiers, a bounty hunter, a space cop etc), so it was viable for them to always have armor on, and a helmet could be easily implemented.
In ME2, there seems to be an effort to diversify squad appearances; each of their costumes is meant to complement their character. Now you get things like Miranda's catsuit, whatever Jack wears, Kasumi's sneak thief getup etc, all things that make zero sense in a hazardous environment and would look profoundly silly/weird with a viable 'space helmet', so... breather masks.
Yeah, it's a bit silly, but I can easily overlook it, if it allows for more freedom in character design approaches.

In that case I argue that instead of having one "iconic outfit" for each character, why not have a range of different iconic outfits, depending on the application? Miranda's space-spandex is fine (if somewhat distracting) for walking around on the Normandy or in a safe place like the Citadel, but on combat missions she should definitely be wearing exclusively something like the DLC armor.

Why can't Jack find a piece of old Cerberus armor in a locker on the Normandy, deface the crap out of it with obscenities and markings similar to her tattoos, and wear that in combat?

Samara talks about how Justicars are similar to the errant knights and Samurai from human legends. Why can't she wear practical-looking armor (not cleavage + heels) that evokes the appearance of an alien monk knight?

In ME3 it looks like Liara is already wearing what appears to be a lab coat/space suit combo. Why can't that accomodate a fully-sealed helmet? Hell, one of her alternate outfits is practically a recolor of Ashley's ME3 armor. Why can't that get a helmet?

Mordin was a member of the STG. In fact, his lab coat looks very similar to the armor Kirrahe's soldiers wore on Virmire. I seem to recall some of those guys had helmets. Give Mordin something similar.

The list goes on and on...

That'd be awesome.  It'd be cool if they had contextual armors unique to the characters. 

Keep in mind I'm not defending ~breather masks~, (they're a very lazy "solution"), I'm just speculating about the rationale behind them. 

However, I still maintain that the character design choices ("iconic outfits") in ME2 are better than the tepid and often hideous armor sets in ME1. 

[EHondaMashButton]

Ah yes "immersion" we have dismissed those claims.



I'm on a horse. [whistles old spice jingle]


But seriously, they want to sell you skin packs, and helmets clash with cleavage and stripper boots.

Modifié par EHondaMashButton, 18 avril 2012 - 02:17 .

[M_othon]

Sdrol117 wrote...


http://achievements.schrankmonster.de/Achievement.aspx?text=Didn't%20play%20passed%20the%20second%20mission

*past 

[Sdrol117]

EHondaMashButton wrote...

Ah yes "immersion" we have dismissed those claims.



I'm on a horse. [whistles old spice jingle]

LOL. Gotta love it XD 

And charcters can still have stylized costumes with masks on, I mean it's ridiculous enough that Miranda goes into battle in a pornstar outfit and Jack goes in naked, they could easily have given them "battle suits" also. I don't find that an excuse either, but their ridiculous combat outfits are another discussion.

[Sdrol117]

M_othon wrote...

Sdrol117 wrote...


http://achievements.schrankmonster.de/Achievement.aspx?text=Didn't%20play%20passed%20the%20second%20mission

*past 

I always get them confused. So...adverb style? http://achievements.schrankmonster.de/Achievement.aspx?text=Didn't%20play%20past%20the%20second%20mission

[Sgt Stryker]

M_othon wrote...

That'd be awesome.  It'd be cool if they had contextual armors unique to the characters. 

Keep in mind I'm not defending ~breather masks~, (they're a very lazy "solution"), I'm just speculating about the rationale behind them. 

However, I still maintain that the character design choices ("iconic outfits") in ME2 are better than the tepid and often hideous armor sets in ME1. 

The most likely rationale that I can think of is two-fold: First, it requires less development time. Second, it panders to EA's completely inaccurate image of the average Straight Male Gamer.

[Praetor Knight]

RyuujinZERO wrote...

Praetor Shepard wrote...

I could easily have lived with something like this for everyone, without a proper helmet:

<snip>

Planetes had a good solution too. Their spacesuits were armoured (To protect against collisions with jagged debris, not bullets ), including a full plated helmet visor with an internal HUD, but for the sake of dialogue scenes the armoured faceplate could be retracted to give a view of the character's face



Of course, planetes was everything mass effect isn't - an absolutely rock solid hard-science fiction story. No space magic to be seen here...

That's pretty cool. I need to look into that one.

[CARL_DF90]

It's a vaild complaint OP. It can kill immersion and suspension of disbelief can only take you so far.

[dielveio]

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

dielveio wrote...

The breather helmet Shepard use don't
have a hose to carry oxygen in to the helmet like it used to have in
Mass Effect 1 AND in the opening sequence in Mass Effect 2.

I always just assumed the suits evolved and were updated to not need tubes of any kind, makes sens if you think about it, I mean scuba gear today is capable of being a one stage hermetically sealed diving suit without tubes like standard scuba gear, so I always assumed that future space armor that can make shields and HUD's in my helmet can at least provide oxygen without tubes. I liked the design decision actually.

They kept the slot for the hose on the helmet.
Just take a look again

[Praetor Knight]

Meh, so much sarcasm around here, we even got a congratulations.

Anyway...

Draemora wrote...

I can handle the mass effect.
I can handle sound in space.
I can handle spaceships flying like airplanes.
I can handle a dreadnought in the atmosphere.
I can handle MagicGel.
I can handle distorting space-time with your mind.
I can handle a bar and a launge on a military ship.
I can handle a lot of other things that I can't remember...

But Starchild and the masks broke my immersion.

With sound in space, if you speak with Cortez, there's convo or two where he mentions that he turns off the sound simulation to watch ships passby silently. I thought that was really cool to hear that in-game. The rest  you bring up, at least have a vague explanation and mostly remains internally consistent... mostly... with exceptions of course. The Dreadnought over Vancouver was a mistake that was not easy to fix, when it was discovered.



On-topic, I could live with an in-universe explanation too, not what we've gotten before about expressing 'character' or however it was put to us, with why only breathers are used by so many and not full helmets.

An explanation such as, maybe Liara and others that use breathers don't need to use helmets because they either have cybernetic eyes, or a third and fourth transparent set of eye lids, and/or skin that doesn't interact with it's environment, unlike how our human skin does, to guard against vacuum and so on. We can live with vague descriptions of Biotics, ME fields, FTL and Mass Relay travel, and other topics because they are plausible enough and internally consistent enough, so why not simply provide something in-universe for this topic too?

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 18 avril 2012 - 03:54 .

[Draemora]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

Meh, so much sarcasm around here, we even got a congratulations.

Anyway...

Draemora wrote...

I can handle the mass effect.
I can handle sound in space.
I can handle spaceships flying like airplanes.
I can handle a dreadnought in the atmosphere.
I can handle MagicGel.
I can handle distorting space-time with your mind.
I can handle a bar and a launge on a military ship.
I can handle a lot of other things that I can't remember...

But Starchild and the masks broke my immersion.

With sound in space, if you speak with Cortez, there's convo or two where he mentions that he turns off the sound simulation to watch ships passby silently. I thought that was really cool to hear that in-game. The rest  you bring up, at least have a vague explanation and mostly remains internally consistent... mostly... with exceptions of course. The Dreadnought over Vancouver was a mistake that was not easy to fix, when it was discovered.



On-topic, I could live with an in-universe explanation too, not what we've gotten before about expressing 'character' or however it was put to us, with why only breathers are used by so many and not full helmets.

An explanation such as, maybe Liara and others that use breathers don't need to use helmets because they either have cybernetic eyes, or a third and fourth transparent set of eye lids, and/or skin that doesn't interact with it's environment, unlike how our human skin does, to guard against vacuum and so on. We can live with vague descriptions of Biotics, ME fields, FTL and Mass Relay travel, and other topics because they are plausible enough and internally consistent enough, so why not simply provide something in-universe for this topic too?

I still hear wooshy sounds and laser fire while the camera pans around the ships. I'm perfectly ok with it though because it's not immersion breaking.

[Han Shot First]

chengthao wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Congratulations. You have found a flaw in our otherwise absolutely scientifically accurate game.

your own Mac Walters said it best

"'From very early on we wanted the science of the universe to be plausible. Obviously it's set in the future so you have to make some leaps of faith but we didn't want it to be just magic in space"

Oh snap...



Breathers are hardly game breaking, mind you. But if there is ever a ME4 hopefully everyone has a proper helment when entering a hazardous enviroment.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 18 avril 2012 - 05:49 .

[jtrook]

ahem...They use mass effect fields to keep their personal atmosphere pressurized but air particles can still escape due to speed and size. (read it in the codex guy's voice for effect)

[Bluko]

G3rman wrote...

Its fantasy, get over it.

There fixed. Science-Fiction is suppose to at least attempt to give plausible explanations to what happens within its universe. You know a little more then "magic". Now yes that entails making certain leaps of faith with things like technology, etc. Obviously we in reality don't have spaceships that can travel FTL and likely never will. But unlike fantasy where things can be chalked up to magic or it be a different setting; science fiction is suppose to try and explain how something could work. I'd be perfectly fine with alien characters only needing a breathing mask in near vacuum environments provided they had a unique biology to explain why they don't. But Asari are pretty damn human to so I do not believe this is the case.

There is nothing in Mass Effect's lore that explains how any of the species could go without a helmet in a near vacuum environment. And it's completely stupid to think they could or would. It has nothing to do gameplay either so there really is no excuse for it other then some bizarre artistic vision. Sorry no matter how cool your hat is it's not going to stop a bullet that should just kind of be obvious. If the issue is not seeing someone's face... well uh just make a transparent space helmet geez. Look breathing masks are dumb and personally I hate wearing them. I'd take a temperature controlled fresh air helmet anyday.




Not really what I call cool. Even doctors look pretty dorky with them. Why not give Liara a bandana? Then she can be like a Scientist turned Space Gangsta/Cowboy/Ninja. Seems a lot more badarse to me...




I wonder if this is some kind of misplaced ode to Star Wars. And honestly even when I was a kid I found that scene in the Empire Strikes Back pretty jarring cause I was wondering how that works in "space". Personally I would've thought TIM's legion of Stormtroopers would have been enough homage to Star Wars.


However the real issue here is this: Everyone in ME1 wore helmets in the appropriate circumstances. And as far I can recall no one had a problem with that. And if they do you should tie them to a rocket and send them to the moon where they can eat all the cheese they want. How can you guys even pretend to encourage "science" when you overlook such simple things? And if anything I thought you want players to be immersed in the game. Sorry that's hard to achieve when you have characters wearing "fashionable attire" in battle situations. Was it really that problematic to give Liara a helmet like everyone else? You'd think the Shadow Borker would be a little smarter.

[Drake_Hound]

Chris wasn't this already debated in ME2 .

You forgot , basically most of the people who don't wear helmets or full spacesuit were biotecs.
Sorry they created there own personal forcefield , thus only need breathers .

Well doesn't make sense , well then sorry mass effect doesn't make sense , so does anything else.