421 réponses à ce sujet

[jijeebo]

balance5050 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

KingZayd wrote...


They thought they had more time. They've had to shift priorities to get this sorted by SUmmer. Considering what you've been through that's not surprising.  and yeah i would like control to be a critical mission failure.. it feels just as stupid as deciding to have sex with Morinth.

But... I chose control. D=

And i thought Saren's sacrifice was a really bold thing to do, it served as a redemption of sorts. I would like for indoctrination Shepards to be given the option to paragon interrupt suicide personally. A test to see if you can match Saren's sacrifice for the good of the galaxy. They did say they were going for bittersweet

Only one problem there, that would be a new ending... And they've said we aren't getting any of those.

No...That would be adding on to the ending. A new ending would mean changes to what wasused before...That won't do that.

Well I chose control, so if IT was true my ending would go from "You took control of the reapers and stopped the cycle." to "You failed to defeat indoctrination and are now f***ed."

That seems like a new ending to me.

You grabbed lightning because a little kid told you to.... You're ending is still valid, it's just your dying fantasy is all.

But knowing that my ending wasn't real sort of invalidates it.

I was an astronaut once... Then I found out I was dreaming and I was no longer, nor had I ever been, an astronaut.

And I grabbed lightning because it saved the geth... It's not like I was all like "OOOOOH SHINY!!" or anything... Honest................ :innocent:

[KingZayd]

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

KingZayd wrote...


They thought they had more time. They've had to shift priorities to get this sorted by SUmmer. Considering what you've been through that's not surprising.  and yeah i would like control to be a critical mission failure.. it feels just as stupid as deciding to have sex with Morinth.

But... I chose control. D=

And i thought Saren's sacrifice was a really bold thing to do, it served as a redemption of sorts. I would like for indoctrination Shepards to be given the option to paragon interrupt suicide personally. A test to see if you can match Saren's sacrifice for the good of the galaxy. They did say they were going for bittersweet

Only one problem there, that would be a new ending... And they've said we aren't getting any of those.

No...That would be adding on to the ending. A new ending would mean changes to what wasused before...That won't do that.

Well I chose control, so if IT was true my ending would go from "You took control of the reapers and stopped the cycle." to "You failed to defeat indoctrination and are now f***ed."

That seems like a new ending to me.

Under IT it's not the ending that's changed, it's your interpretation of it. You were never in control of the reapers, you just thought you were.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

dreman9999 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
That's still and add on.... and their is a cure for indoctrination...

That is not a simple add on. That is a complete new ending.

Nope, add on. Nothing abotut he cataylist would be changed...Hence add on . It just like the chase with this Prince of Persia game when they added more to the ending via dlc...
http://en.wikipedia....008_video_game)

Yes it is changing the ending.

Current versions.

Shepard destroyes all synthethic life thereby stopping the Reapers, destroys all relays and the Citadel, Normandy crashes.

Shepard controls the Reapers thereby stopping the cycle, destroys all relays but not the Citadel, Normandy crashes.

Shepard evolves all life thereby stopping the cycle, destroys all relays and the Citadel, Normandy crashes.

With IT these things change into.

Shepard resists indoctrination, fight on in the war, wins it or whatever.

Shepard becomes indoctrinated, dooms the war and whatever.

You are changing the nature of the endings by quite a margin.

[T-Raks]

You decide if he is indoctrinated or not with your final choice! By choosing either the control or the synthesis ending you are indoctrinated, choose destroy and you have successfully fought indoctrination. Shep is not indoctrinated from the hit of the reaper laser as many want to believe and the ending is happening for real (at least until Shep breaks down before the control console), but he is fighting indoctrination in the end.

To answer the OP's question: I don't think this is agreed upon by everyone, but just one opinion. I'm pretty sure by now, that they wanted to bring out more "facts" surrounding their ending as the last, spectacular DLC for Mass Effect 3, but miscalculated how bad the reaction from us fans would be on the ending presented with so many plotholes and so little appeal. Here is hope that the extended cut will better the ending. Will it be enough? I can't say until I have seen (hopefully played) it.

[RGFrog]

Completely disagree. There was no indoctrination except where the player is concerned.

[Archangel01]

Not agreed. I think it depends on the choices you made. Having bad dreams because you've seen alot of people being blown up, and blown up more than a few yourself, does not mean you're indoctrinated. Concussions sure, PTSD sure. If there were little voices whisperingall the time,sure. If you end up thinking that controlling the reapers is a good idea,probably indoctrinated. I wonder what being rebuilt by the Illusive man did . when was the Illusive Man indoctrianted?

[balance5050]

Lizardviking wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
That's still and add on.... and their is a cure for indoctrination...

That is not a simple add on. That is a complete new ending.

Nope, add on. Nothing abotut he cataylist would be changed...Hence add on . It just like the chase with this Prince of Persia game when they added more to the ending via dlc...
http://en.wikipedia....008_video_game)

Yes it is changing the ending.

Current versions.

Shepard destroyes all synthethic life thereby stopping the Reapers, destroys all relays and the Citadel, Normandy crashes.

Shepard controls the Reapers thereby stopping the cycle, destroys all relays but not the Citadel, Normandy crashes.

Shepard evolves all life thereby stopping the cycle, destroys all relays and the Citadel, Normandy crashes.

With IT these things change into.

Shepard resists indoctrination, fight on in the war, wins it or whatever.

Shepard becomes indoctrinated, dooms the war and whatever.

You are changing the nature of the endings by quite a margin.

Nope, just your interpretation changes;)

[KingZayd]

Archangel01 wrote...

Not agreed. I think it depends on the choices you made. Having bad dreams because you've seen alot of people being blown up, and blown up more than a few yourself, does not mean you're indoctrinated. Concussions sure, PTSD sure. If there were little voices whisperingall the time,sure. If you end up thinking that controlling the reapers is a good idea,probably indoctrinated. I wonder what being rebuilt by the Illusive man did . when was the Illusive Man indoctrianted?

OP was asking about how TIM  controls you. Whether or not that was to do with indoctrination. The thread has simply mutated into a general indoc theory discussion though,

[jijeebo]

KingZayd wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

KingZayd wrote...


They thought they had more time. They've had to shift priorities to get this sorted by SUmmer. Considering what you've been through that's not surprising.  and yeah i would like control to be a critical mission failure.. it feels just as stupid as deciding to have sex with Morinth.

But... I chose control. D=

And i thought Saren's sacrifice was a really bold thing to do, it served as a redemption of sorts. I would like for indoctrination Shepards to be given the option to paragon interrupt suicide personally. A test to see if you can match Saren's sacrifice for the good of the galaxy. They did say they were going for bittersweet

Only one problem there, that would be a new ending... And they've said we aren't getting any of those.

No...That would be adding on to the ending. A new ending would mean changes to what wasused before...That won't do that.

Well I chose control, so if IT was true my ending would go from "You took control of the reapers and stopped the cycle." to "You failed to defeat indoctrination and are now f***ed."

That seems like a new ending to me.

Under IT it's not the ending that's changed, it's your interpretation of it. You were never in control of the reapers, you just thought you were.

But my interpretation would HAVE to change because the game forced it to. As far as i'm concerned everything actually happened and my Shep now has control of the reapers, that no longer being the case changes my ending.

[KingZayd]

jijeebo wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

KingZayd wrote...


They thought they had more time. They've had to shift priorities to get this sorted by SUmmer. Considering what you've been through that's not surprising.  and yeah i would like control to be a critical mission failure.. it feels just as stupid as deciding to have sex with Morinth.

But... I chose control. D=

And i thought Saren's sacrifice was a really bold thing to do, it served as a redemption of sorts. I would like for indoctrination Shepards to be given the option to paragon interrupt suicide personally. A test to see if you can match Saren's sacrifice for the good of the galaxy. They did say they were going for bittersweet

Only one problem there, that would be a new ending... And they've said we aren't getting any of those.

No...That would be adding on to the ending. A new ending would mean changes to what wasused before...That won't do that.

Well I chose control, so if IT was true my ending would go from "You took control of the reapers and stopped the cycle." to "You failed to defeat indoctrination and are now f***ed."

That seems like a new ending to me.

Under IT it's not the ending that's changed, it's your interpretation of it. You were never in control of the reapers, you just thought you were.

But my interpretation would HAVE to change because the game forced it to. As far as i'm concerned everything actually happened and my Shep now has control of the reapers, that no longer being the case changes my ending.

Yes because the game gives you more data. New data often leads to new conclusions.

[T-Raks]

jijeebo wrote...

But my interpretation would HAVE to change because the game forced it to. As far as i'm concerned everything actually happened and my Shep now has control of the reapers, that no longer being the case changes my ending.

That's how indoctrination works: you think that you have done the right thing!

[balance5050]

jijeebo wrote...


But my interpretation would HAVE to change because the game forced it to. As far as i'm concerned everything actually happened and my Shep now has control of the reapers, that no longer being the case changes my ending.

I'm happy you feel you can control the reapers, it's not like everyone else who thought they could control them ended up indoctrinated or anything.... wait.

[Silhouett3]

People. OP asks whether Shepard's mind has been experiencing indoctrination to any degree, not IT is true/false. Whoever started to debate the potencial changes IT brings to endings should be fed to varren.

[jijeebo]

balance5050 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...


But my interpretation would HAVE to change because the game forced it to. As far as i'm concerned everything actually happened and my Shep now has control of the reapers, that no longer being the case changes my ending.

I'm happy you feel you can control the reapers, it's not like everyone else who thought they could control them ended up indoctrinated or anything.... wait.

I didn't get the option to second guess the catalyst so I didn't. I didn't like it but I took him at his word, and control seemed like my best option.

And the scenario Shepard was presented with was nothing like anything that had happened before ever... It's not comparable to the TIMs mad plan to rule the galaxy.

[Vigil_N7]

I'd disagree. Outside of Arrival, Shepard hasn't been any more exposed to Reaper Tech than any of his other squad members aboard the Normandy, and they their will is less remarkable than Shepard.

[balance5050]

jijeebo wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...


But my interpretation would HAVE to change because the game forced it to. As far as i'm concerned everything actually happened and my Shep now has control of the reapers, that no longer being the case changes my ending.

I'm happy you feel you can control the reapers, it's not like everyone else who thought they could control them ended up indoctrinated or anything.... wait.

I didn't get the option to second guess the catalyst so I didn't. I didn't like it but I took him at his word, and control seemed like my best option.

And the scenario Shepard was presented with was nothing like anything that had happened before ever... It's not comparable to the TIMs mad plan to rule the galaxy.

Destroy is the only tangible ending where you didn't let a kid talk you into suicide.

[Mcfly616]

balance5050 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...


But my interpretation would HAVE to change because the game forced it to. As far as i'm concerned everything actually happened and my Shep now has control of the reapers, that no longer being the case changes my ending.

I'm happy you feel you can control the reapers, it's not like everyone else who thought they could control them ended up indoctrinated or anything.... wait.

Exactly lol

[Vigil_N7]

jijeebo wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...


But my interpretation would HAVE to change because the game forced it to. As far as i'm concerned everything actually happened and my Shep now has control of the reapers, that no longer being the case changes my ending.

I'm happy you feel you can control the reapers, it's not like everyone else who thought they could control them ended up indoctrinated or anything.... wait.

I didn't get the option to second guess the catalyst so I didn't. I didn't like it but I took him at his word, and control seemed like my best option.

And the scenario Shepard was presented with was nothing like anything that had happened before ever... It's not comparable to the TIMs mad plan to rule the galaxy.

This. I'm SICK to death with the whole "CONTROL IS A BAD ENDING DERP, BECAUSE THATS WHAT TIM WANTED!!!!!!!1111111" 

WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG. 

Tim wanted to control the reapers to protect and advance humanity. However, he couldn't as "we" (reapers) "already controlled him." 

The reapers don't control Shepard, so he can control them. 

[balance5050]

Vigil_N7 wrote...

I'd disagree. Outside of Arrival, Shepard hasn't been any more exposed to Reaper Tech than any of his other squad members aboard the Normandy, and they their will is less remarkable than Shepard.

You only take two with you for most the missions, Shep is a constant and therefore is more exposed than his squad.

[KingZayd]

Vigil_N7 wrote...

I'd disagree. Outside of Arrival, Shepard hasn't been any more exposed to Reaper Tech than any of his other squad members aboard the Normandy, and they their will is less remarkable than Shepard.

Arrival is relevant though. Also Shepard gets pretty close to reaper of Rannoch and (if you think it actually happens) has TIM's indoctrination device used on him.

Also based on what we see, Shepard's squad aren't on the brink of death leading to weakened mental resistance.

Modifié par KingZayd, 17 avril 2012 - 05:57 .

[balance5050]

Vigil_N7 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...


But my interpretation would HAVE to change because the game forced it to. As far as i'm concerned everything actually happened and my Shep now has control of the reapers, that no longer being the case changes my ending.

I'm happy you feel you can control the reapers, it's not like everyone else who thought they could control them ended up indoctrinated or anything.... wait.

I didn't get the option to second guess the catalyst so I didn't. I didn't like it but I took him at his word, and control seemed like my best option.

And the scenario Shepard was presented with was nothing like anything that had happened before ever... It's not comparable to the TIMs mad plan to rule the galaxy.

This. I'm SICK to death with the whole "CONTROL IS A BAD ENDING DERP, BECAUSE THATS WHAT TIM WANTED!!!!!!!1111111" 

WROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG. 

Tim wanted to control the reapers to protect and advance humanity. However, he couldn't as "we" (reapers) "already controlled him." 

The reapers don't control Shepard, so he can control them. 

Not just TIM, every other person in history who though they could control the reapers became or already was indoctrinated.

[Vigil_N7]

balance5050 wrote...

Vigil_N7 wrote...

I'd disagree. Outside of Arrival, Shepard hasn't been any more exposed to Reaper Tech than any of his other squad members aboard the Normandy, and they their will is less remarkable than Shepard.

You only take two with you for most the missions, Shep is a constant and therefore is more exposed than his squad.

I always see this as more of a gameplay thing. Liara goes on about Ilos, except I never took her with me (Picked Garrus and Ashley.) 

I always thought the assumption was all squad mates are with you technically, but obviously they won't appear in game due to development constraints. 

[jijeebo]

balance5050 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...


But my interpretation would HAVE to change because the game forced it to. As far as i'm concerned everything actually happened and my Shep now has control of the reapers, that no longer being the case changes my ending.

I'm happy you feel you can control the reapers, it's not like everyone else who thought they could control them ended up indoctrinated or anything.... wait.

I didn't get the option to second guess the catalyst so I didn't. I didn't like it but I took him at his word, and control seemed like my best option.

And the scenario Shepard was presented with was nothing like anything that had happened before ever... It's not comparable to the TIMs mad plan to rule the galaxy.

Destroy is the only tangible ending where you didn't let a kid talk you into suicide.

... Until you walk towards the thing you're about to blow up for no reason.

And imo Shep doesn't die in the control ending, he just becomes a bit more... Cuttlefishy.

[Gwtheyrn]

No. The indoctrination approach is grasping at straws.

[balance5050]

Vigil_N7 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Vigil_N7 wrote...

I'd disagree. Outside of Arrival, Shepard hasn't been any more exposed to Reaper Tech than any of his other squad members aboard the Normandy, and they their will is less remarkable than Shepard.

You only take two with you for most the missions, Shep is a constant and therefore is more exposed than his squad.

I always see this as more of a gameplay thing. Liara goes on about Ilos, except I never took her with me (Picked Garrus and Ashley.) 

I always thought the assumption was all squad mates are with you technically, but obviously they won't appear in game due to development constraints. 

Well, you know what happens when you ass-u-me anthing right?