421 réponses à ce sujet

[pfellahX]

"Agreed"? Good luck with that. But if you add up people who believe I.T. outright and people who think the hooks are there but it was abandoned at some point during development, you probably have a decent-sized chunk of the fanbase.

[KingZayd]

Tleining wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Shepard's squadmates don't all accompany him everywhere.. (for some reason Shepard only likes to have 2 of his people with him  at any given time  except when giving speeches or on suicide missions). Also, Shepard's the only one who has the face-to-face conversation with the Rannoch Reaper.

So indoctrination starts after Rannoch? The first dream with the Whispers which are seen as evidence of indoctrination happens long before that.

No, indoctrination starts with Object Rho, or earlier. Indoctrination seems to be an automatic process based on what we've seen in the game, rather than a targeted attack on someone's mind. Think subliminal messaging (at first) just telepathic.

I don't think the dreams are evidence of indoctrination in of themselves. Not at first anyway.. Those haunting dreams represent the Shepards increasing mental frailty, which does in fact let the indoctrination manifest even more. The later dreams do seem to have these oily black shadows and other stuff which does seem to be a sign of indoctrination,

[dreman9999]

Mobius-Silent wrote...

Inxentas wrote...

The dreams with alien voices and shadowy figures are codex textbook examples of indoctrination. Also, the codex says sudden indoctrination is possible, but has far worse side effects then slow and purposefull indoctrination. TIM found out the technical details of indoctrination, so the scene with the oily black shadows is simply an indoctrination attempt. I don't get why people think differently, to me this was clear before any speculations ensued.

You are incorrect,

The voices aren't alien they are Shepards dead crewmates.
No orders are given.
The "Oily" nonsense is a gross misunderstanding of the way the rachni communicate
Tim isn't researching Indoctrination he is researching the control signal for the ground forces which is not that same thing.

 
....
Those are alien sounds.

Also,rachni communicate via song and have diffent ways to dicrible thing.....Indoctrination warps the veiw of the of the person being indoctrinated. Also, not that same "oily shadows reference was clearafied in ME2 as someone controling then from the deep....The thing reapers do.

[dreman9999]

KingZayd wrote...

Tleining wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Shepard's squadmates don't all accompany him everywhere.. (for some reason Shepard only likes to have 2 of his people with him  at any given time  except when giving speeches or on suicide missions). Also, Shepard's the only one who has the face-to-face conversation with the Rannoch Reaper.

So indoctrination starts after Rannoch? The first dream with the Whispers which are seen as evidence of indoctrination happens long before that.

No, indoctrination starts with Object Rho, or earlier. Indoctrination seems to be an automatic process based on what we've seen in the game, rather than a targeted attack on someone's mind. Think subliminal messaging (at first) just telepathic.

I don't think the dreams are evidence of indoctrination in of themselves. Not at first anyway.. Those haunting dreams represent the Shepards increasing mental frailty, which does in fact let the indoctrination manifest even more. The later dreams do seem to have these oily black shadows and other stuff which does seem to be a sign of indoctrination,

But reapers can effect dreams...
Fact 6. The reapers can manipulate
dreams...http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ldIJFRvDUp4#t=690s

The reseachers on project rho in Arrival also taked about strange dreams  when they were being indoctrinated.

http://www.youtube.c...TITiTw#t=249s  

Modifié par dreman9999, 17 avril 2012 - 02:00 .

[KingZayd]

OdanUrr wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

And we already seen that tech and how it works...It's called reaper tech....And it takes time. So unless someone in that room start becoming indoctrinated, none of that should be possible.

I'm not sure whether it's Reaper tech or TIM's attempts at reverse-engineering Reaper tech. In any event, why should the tech have anything to do with indoctrination? TIM's researching ways to control the Reapers. This scene shows us that he can at least control a person's movements.

Silhouett3 wrote...

Whoa?  This is the scene:



So either if TIM fires that gun or TIM makes Shep fire that gun how do you explain he has the ability to do what only Reapers are capable of?

 

TIM has been researching ways to control the Reapers and he has succeeded, if only in part, to control husks. As per what I suggested above, he could have developed some sort of EM signal that can influence the brain's motor control.

The sanctuary method makes it clear that TIM has been researching indoctrination and how it works. The husks are indoctrinated (fast form, damages brains leads to zombification). The EM signal is the same sort used by the reapers to control their husks. It's provided as an explanation for how Cerberus has managed to amass such large, loyal forces.

[dreman9999]

Mobius-Silent wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

....., Start up sometime after Shep is hit by an indoctrinaion feild in arrival as soon as the reaper invation truely begins.

"Indoctrination field" is simply speculation, there is no support that such a thing even exists.. Also ME3 starts months after Arrival and Shep hasn't been having odd dreams for all that time

What TIM uses is _not_ indoctrination!

As I said Bioware themselves describe what TIM did as using "his control mojo" it is Cerberus tech derived from the control signal the reapers user to directly control reaper forces (husks/brutes/maruders/etc) _not_ indoctrination, it is new tech therefore it could look like anything.

Are you telling me, that reaper devises don't indoctrinate....Because, after see reaper artifact do that so many times....To say that it's can't and did not try is a leap of logic.

[KingZayd]

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Tleining wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Shepard's squadmates don't all accompany him everywhere.. (for some reason Shepard only likes to have 2 of his people with him  at any given time  except when giving speeches or on suicide missions). Also, Shepard's the only one who has the face-to-face conversation with the Rannoch Reaper.

So indoctrination starts after Rannoch? The first dream with the Whispers which are seen as evidence of indoctrination happens long before that.

No, indoctrination starts with Object Rho, or earlier. Indoctrination seems to be an automatic process based on what we've seen in the game, rather than a targeted attack on someone's mind. Think subliminal messaging (at first) just telepathic.

I don't think the dreams are evidence of indoctrination in of themselves. Not at first anyway.. Those haunting dreams represent the Shepards increasing mental frailty, which does in fact let the indoctrination manifest even more. The later dreams do seem to have these oily black shadows and other stuff which does seem to be a sign of indoctrination,

But reapers can effect dreams...
Fact 6. The reapers can manipulate
dreams...http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ldIJFRvDUp4#t=690s

The reseachers on project rho in Arrival also taked about strange dreams  when they were being indoctrinated.

http://www.youtube.c...TITiTw#t=249s  

I think it's a hybrid of the two. First, it's just traumatised Shepard. Then as he gets mentally weaker, the reaper influence changes the dreams, and the Earthchild too.

Modifié par KingZayd, 17 avril 2012 - 02:03 .

[dreman9999]

OdanUrr wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

If it base on indoctrination, it is indoctrination....It doen't become something else because it backward enginnered. Look at the thanix cannon, that came out of reverse enginnering a reaper cannon, same concept.

Also, yes TIM is indoctrinated in the scene, he acts like Saren and he can't active the crucible when he wants to being that it is his way of controling the reapers, and he kills him self if you help him realise it.... The only way for TIM to not to be indoctrinated is if the scene was not real.

Ah, but TIM is studying husks not Reapers. It is the Reapers who can indoctrinate, not the husks. But suppose he were studying a Reaper. Is it so difficult to believe that he comes up with an experimental technology that is a bit less than indoctrination? It allows some control, but not the same degree of control that indoctrination can provide. This is a very complex piece of technology we're talking about, designed to interact with the neurophysiology of any sentient being. Considering he's pressed for time, I don't find it difficult to believe that he conjured up a lesser version of indoctrination. Of course, this is pure speculation on my part.

Agein....how can I make this clear....Indoctrination is the only tech seen that can control organics......If TIm got it from reaper tech....It's indoctrination...It not something else.

[dreman9999]

KingZayd wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

And we already seen that tech and how it works...It's called reaper tech....And it takes time. So unless someone in that room start becoming indoctrinated, none of that should be possible.

I'm not sure whether it's Reaper tech or TIM's attempts at reverse-engineering Reaper tech. In any event, why should the tech have anything to do with indoctrination? TIM's researching ways to control the Reapers. This scene shows us that he can at least control a person's movements.

Silhouett3 wrote...

Whoa?  This is the scene:



So either if TIM fires that gun or TIM makes Shep fire that gun how do you explain he has the ability to do what only Reapers are capable of?

 

TIM has been researching ways to control the Reapers and he has succeeded, if only in part, to control husks. As per what I suggested above, he could have developed some sort of EM signal that can influence the brain's motor control.

The sanctuary method makes it clear that TIM has been researching indoctrination and how it works. The husks are indoctrinated (fast form, damages brains leads to zombification). The EM signal is the same sort used by the reapers to control their husks. It's provided as an explanation for how Cerberus has managed to amass such large, loyal forces.

But that doesn't mean he can instatly control people that would just mean if their is omeone who is indoctrinated or a husk, He could control them.

[dreman9999]

KingZayd wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Tleining wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

Shepard's squadmates don't all accompany him everywhere.. (for some reason Shepard only likes to have 2 of his people with him  at any given time  except when giving speeches or on suicide missions). Also, Shepard's the only one who has the face-to-face conversation with the Rannoch Reaper.

So indoctrination starts after Rannoch? The first dream with the Whispers which are seen as evidence of indoctrination happens long before that.

No, indoctrination starts with Object Rho, or earlier. Indoctrination seems to be an automatic process based on what we've seen in the game, rather than a targeted attack on someone's mind. Think subliminal messaging (at first) just telepathic.

I don't think the dreams are evidence of indoctrination in of themselves. Not at first anyway.. Those haunting dreams represent the Shepards increasing mental frailty, which does in fact let the indoctrination manifest even more. The later dreams do seem to have these oily black shadows and other stuff which does seem to be a sign of indoctrination,

But reapers can effect dreams...
Fact 6. The reapers can manipulate
dreams...http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ldIJFRvDUp4#t=690s

The reseachers on project rho in Arrival also taked about strange dreams  when they were being indoctrinated.

http://www.youtube.c...TITiTw#t=249s  

I think it's a hybrid of the two. First, it's just traumatised Shepard. Then as he gets mentally weaker, the reaper influence changes the dreams, and the Earthchild too.

Yep....that what we are saying.

[KingZayd]

dreman9999 wrote...

Mobius-Silent wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

....., Start up sometime after Shep is hit by an indoctrinaion feild in arrival as soon as the reaper invation truely begins.

"Indoctrination field" is simply speculation, there is no support that such a thing even exists.. Also ME3 starts months after Arrival and Shep hasn't been having odd dreams for all that time

What TIM uses is _not_ indoctrination!

As I said Bioware themselves describe what TIM did as using "his control mojo" it is Cerberus tech derived from the control signal the reapers user to directly control reaper forces (husks/brutes/maruders/etc) _not_ indoctrination, it is new tech therefore it could look like anything.

Are you telling me, that reaper devises don't indoctrinate....Because, after see reaper artifact do that so many times....To say that it's can't and did not try is a leap of logic.

Awesome links:
something to note about the first one about indoctrination (possibly.. i think so)
"It warps reality just by being there. It doesn't have to want to. It doesn't have to think about it. It just does. That's what Chandana didn't get. Not until it was too late. The god's mind is gone, but it still dreams." This to me suggests exactly what i've been thinking about indoctrination. It is automatic. They don't activate their indoctrination beams or whatever. They're always sending out these pulses (or however they propogate it) and it works with your mind, manipulating it until you serve the reapers.

[KingZayd]

dreman9999 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

OdanUrr wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

And we already seen that tech and how it works...It's called reaper tech....And it takes time. So unless someone in that room start becoming indoctrinated, none of that should be possible.

I'm not sure whether it's Reaper tech or TIM's attempts at reverse-engineering Reaper tech. In any event, why should the tech have anything to do with indoctrination? TIM's researching ways to control the Reapers. This scene shows us that he can at least control a person's movements.

Silhouett3 wrote...

Whoa?  This is the scene:



So either if TIM fires that gun or TIM makes Shep fire that gun how do you explain he has the ability to do what only Reapers are capable of?

 

TIM has been researching ways to control the Reapers and he has succeeded, if only in part, to control husks. As per what I suggested above, he could have developed some sort of EM signal that can influence the brain's motor control.

The sanctuary method makes it clear that TIM has been researching indoctrination and how it works. The husks are indoctrinated (fast form, damages brains leads to zombification). The EM signal is the same sort used by the reapers to control their husks. It's provided as an explanation for how Cerberus has managed to amass such large, loyal forces.

But that doesn't mean he can instatly control people that would just mean if their is omeone who is indoctrinated or a husk, He could control them.

Yeah, he has to indoctrinate them first.. or find someone who is indoctrinated already. Either way Shepard is indoctrinated by the end of that conversation.

[Mobius-Silent]

dreman9999 wrote...


 
....
Those are alien sounds.

Also,rachni communicate via song and have diffent ways to dicrible thing.....Indoctrination warps the veiw of the of the person being indoctrinated. Also, not that same "oily shadows reference was clearafied in ME2 as someone controling then from the deep....The thing reapers do.

They are sounds, like any of the incidental FX, the whispers are from the crew, they have been ripped from the audio and are very clear, It is supposed to be a guilty bad dream due to the horrors of war.

The rachnai communicate telepathically, they use the word "song" to describe it, they also describe thoughts as "yellow" and "sour". Yes there are describing how the controlled Rachni minds felt, the point being that the are not describing "Things seen in dreams" they are trying to use our language to describe the was the thoughts "felt" to the queen in the same way she commented that the asari "Had colours I do not have names for"

You can believe what you want. My point is that the idea that "everyone" agrees that Shepard was being indoctrinated is nonsense. Come summer the IT people will have a whole load of heartbreak all over again.

[Inxentas]

Post deleted. I've had some arguments lined up, then I realised they would probably just invoke more speculations. I'm done with speculations. I'm sick of speculations. Unless BW tells me otherwise, Shep is simply Indoctrinated to a certain extend, and resists like a boss in the final scene with TIM. My speculation is as good as any.

Modifié par Inxentas, 17 avril 2012 - 02:20 .

[im commander shep]

OdanUrr wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

First of all no matter how you cut it...If time reverse enginered the tech and is using it...It still will be working the same way as before He would be able to indoctinate people but not in away that it has not been shown..Also note that in that scene,we find out TIM is inoctrinated.....He not in control.
You're forgeting that inoctination does not work the way heis using it.

First, I never said TIM is using indoctrination in that scene, I'm saying he created a technological means to manipulate the brain's motor control.

Second, we don't know TIM is indoctrinated, Anderson and Shepard suggest he is. In the context, I agree it is the more likely explanation. I have another theory, but that's just a story at this point and not supported by the games.

I think its quite clear in this scene that shepard is experiencing some sort of indoctrination. The oliy/black wisps, headaches, (assumed by his actions and noises). We don't know from what source either TIM, Harby etc but the logical conclucion is that for this scene at least shepard does experiance some sort of indoctrination effect. (I'm not saying he is ever fully indoctrinated.)

[Mobius-Silent]

dreman9999 wrote...

Mobius-Silent wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

....., Start up sometime after Shep is hit by an indoctrinaion feild in arrival as soon as the reaper invation truely begins.

"Indoctrination field" is simply speculation, there is no support that such a thing even exists.. Also ME3 starts months after Arrival and Shep hasn't been having odd dreams for all that time

What TIM uses is _not_ indoctrination!

As I said Bioware themselves describe what TIM did as using "his control mojo" it is Cerberus tech derived from the control signal the reapers user to directly control reaper forces (husks/brutes/maruders/etc) _not_ indoctrination, it is new tech therefore it could look like anything.

Are you telling me, that reaper devises don't indoctrinate....Because, after see reaper artifact do that so many times....To say that it's can't and did not try is a leap of logic.

No I'm saying that the object Rho pluse wave was not indoctrination, it is a massively powerful Ezo core, used to power the Alpha relay, that was getting ready to fire, it's also capable of basic indoctrination and had shepard studied it for weeks time then he/she may have been affected, but that didn't happen.

Not all reaper-tech indoctrinates, the reaper IFF didn't (though it had other failsafes) the problem is knowing what is safe and what isn't

[Tleining]

dreman9999 wrote...

Agein....how can I make this clear....Indoctrination is the only tech seen that can control organics......If TIm got it from reaper tech....It's indoctrination...It not something else.

If i take a LaserPistol and manage to reverse Engineer it, it might be a LaserPistol, but it won't be the same.

Reapers indoctrinate. If TIM manages to reverse Engineer it, he can do something similiar, but it won't be Reaper Indoctrination.

KingZayd wrote...

The sanctuary method makes it clear that TIM has been researching indoctrination and how it works. The husks are indoctrinated (fast form, damages brains leads to zombification). The EM signal is the same sort used by the reapers to control their husks. It's provided as an explanation for how Cerberus has managed to amass such large, loyal forces.

No. They were researching the huskification/conversion-Process. The Implants/DragonTeeth are connected to the Reapers, so the Husks and anyone implanted with Reaper tech is being controlled by the Reapers. That's where QE comes in.
Indoctrination works through sound that can be transmitted by Husks.

[dreman9999]

Mobius-Silent wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...


 
....
Those are alien sounds.

Also,rachni communicate via song and have diffent ways to dicrible thing.....Indoctrination warps the veiw of the of the person being indoctrinated. Also, not that same "oily shadows reference was clearafied in ME2 as someone controling then from the deep....The thing reapers do.

They are sounds, like any of the incidental FX, the whispers are from the crew, they have been ripped from the audio and are very clear, It is supposed to be a guilty bad dream due to the horrors of war.

The rachnai communicate telepathically, they use the word "song" to describe it, they also describe thoughts as "yellow" and "sour". Yes there are describing how the controlled Rachni minds felt, the point being that the are not describing "Things seen in dreams" they are trying to use our language to describe the was the thoughts "felt" to the queen in the same way she commented that the asari "Had colours I do not have names for"

You can believe what you want. My point is that the idea that "everyone" agrees that Shepard was being indoctrinated is nonsense. Come summer the IT people will have a whole load of heartbreak all over again.

Whispers are sounds....You hear them in Sheps dreams. It already been stated that people under the prosecc of indoctrination here whispers....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jI1yekAjJls

Also, it doesn't matter that they are talking about about indoctination in general. This is how all indoctrination is like...A warp reality for the person it happens to...

You forgetting one last thing as well....

Fact 6. The reapers can manipulate dreams..
.http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ldIJFRvDUp4#t=690s

The reseachers on project rho in Arrival also taked about strange dreams  when they were being indoctrinated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PL48B6A3172825B65F&feature=player_detailpage&v=CAstYTITiTw#t=249s  
.....
Point being....the dreams are showing 3 signs of indoctrination at once......Whispers, oily shadows, and being a strage dream....All sometime after Shepard is effeted by object rho.

[Mobius-Silent]

KingZayd wrote...

The sanctuary method makes it clear that TIM has been researching indoctrination and how it works. The husks are indoctrinated (fast form, damages brains leads to zombification). The EM signal is the same sort used by the reapers to control their husks. It's provided as an explanation for how Cerberus has managed to amass such large, loyal forces.

The husking process is seperate from indoctrination. Indoctrination is done via EM and sonics, huskification is done via nanotech. The cerberus research was on the reaper control signal for its troops, not simply indoctrination

[KingZayd]

Mobius-Silent wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Mobius-Silent wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

....., Start up sometime after Shep is hit by an indoctrinaion feild in arrival as soon as the reaper invation truely begins.

"Indoctrination field" is simply speculation, there is no support that such a thing even exists.. Also ME3 starts months after Arrival and Shep hasn't been having odd dreams for all that time

What TIM uses is _not_ indoctrination!

As I said Bioware themselves describe what TIM did as using "his control mojo" it is Cerberus tech derived from the control signal the reapers user to directly control reaper forces (husks/brutes/maruders/etc) _not_ indoctrination, it is new tech therefore it could look like anything.

Are you telling me, that reaper devises don't indoctrinate....Because, after see reaper artifact do that so many times....To say that it's can't and did not try is a leap of logic.

No I'm saying that the object Rho pluse wave was not indoctrination, it is a massively powerful Ezo core, used to power the Alpha relay, that was getting ready to fire, it's also capable of basic indoctrination and had shepard studied it for weeks time then he/she may have been affected, but that didn't happen.

Not all reaper-tech indoctrinates, the reaper IFF didn't (though it had other failsafes) the problem is knowing what is safe and what isn't

Really? how can you be sure? it seems exactly like that described in the comics which caused the partial indoctrination of TIM, and the indoctrinations of Saren's brother and Ben.

[dreman9999]

Tleining wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Agein....how can I make this clear....Indoctrination is the only tech seen that can control organics......If TIm got it from reaper tech....It's indoctrination...It not something else.

If i take a LaserPistol and manage to reverse Engineer it, it might be a LaserPistol, but it won't be the same.

Reapers indoctrinate. If TIM manages to reverse Engineer it, he can do something similiar, but it won't be Reaper Indoctrination.

KingZayd wrote...

The sanctuary method makes it clear that TIM has been researching indoctrination and how it works. The husks are indoctrinated (fast form, damages brains leads to zombification). The EM signal is the same sort used by the reapers to control their husks. It's provided as an explanation for how Cerberus has managed to amass such large, loyal forces.

No. They were researching the huskification/conversion-Process. The Implants/DragonTeeth are connected to the Reapers, so the Husks and anyone implanted with Reaper tech is being controlled by the Reapers. That's where QE comes in.
Indoctrination works through sound that can be transmitted by Husks.

But if you reave engineer it, It won't be better. Look at the thanix cannon, that was reversed enginnered from reaper cannon, it still is not better then  a regular reaper cannon reguardless. Reguadless, TIM, who is also indoctrinated in the scene, would not have a form of indoctrnation that is better nor does thingsregular indoctrination can't do.

[ImmovableMover]

dreman9999 wrote...

Also,rachni communicate via song and have diffent ways to dicrible thing.....Indoctrination warps the veiw of the of the person being indoctrinated. Also, not that same "oily shadows reference was clearafied in ME2 as someone controling then from the deep....The thing reapers do.

The Rachni have Synaesthesia - They see and hear things as colours. It is not mentioned anywhere, nor implied anywhere, that indoctrination gives people Synaesthesia...But lets pretend it does and actually have a look at what the Rachni Queen says in context to see if we can find evidence that she's talking about indoctrination.

Shepard: “If I let you go, will you attack other races?”

Queen:
“No. We- I do not know what happened in the war. We only heard
discordance, songs the colour of oily shadows. We would seek a hidden
place to teach our children harmony. If they understand, perhaps we
would return.”

SO what do the Rachni see as "Oily Shadows"? Is it indoctrination? No. "Oily Shadows" represent Discordance and confusion, things that are not at all linked to Indoctrination. This discordance and confusion is caused by the war, which was a product of Indoctrination but does not actually describe indoctrination. We have a more direct description of what indoctrination looks like to the Rachni.

Shepard: “Are you a survivor from the War? A clone?”

Queen: “We
do not know. We were only an egg, hearing our Mother cry in our dreams. A
tone from space hushed one voice after another. It forced the singers
to resonate with its own sour yellow note. Then we awoke, in this place.
The last echo of those who came out from the singing planet. The sky is
silent.”

The infamous "Yellow note" blatantly refers to the Reapers and this sounds considerably more like indoctrination - forcing others to fall in line with its will, or to put it like the Rachni would, "Forcing the singers to resonate with its own note". The idea that the singers were "Hushed" rather than "Silenced" also fits into the effects of indoctrination; Making the victim more passive and accepting of the effects.

Saying that the Dream-sequence shadows are what the Rachni saw when they experienced indoctrination is wrong on multiple levels and takes WILFUL ignorance of the context and facts to think otherwise.

http://social.biowar...ndex/10837778/1

I strongly suggest that everyone reads the opening post in that thread, it is a logical breakdown of IT and the "Evidence" supporting it.

Modifié par ImmovableMover, 17 avril 2012 - 02:26 .

[Tleining]

dreman9999 wrote...

Whispers are sounds....You hear them in Sheps dreams. It already been stated that people under the prosecc of indoctrination here whispers....


Also, it doesn't matter that they are talking about about indoctination in general. This is how all indoctrination is like...A warp reality for the person it happens to...

You forgetting one last thing as well....

Fact 6. The reapers can manipulate dreams..
.http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ldIJFRvDUp4#t=690s

The reseachers on project rho in Arrival also taked about strange dreams  when they were being indoctrinated.

http://www.youtube.c...TITiTw#t=249s  
.....
Point being....the dreams are showing 3 signs of indoctrination at once......Whispers, oily shadows, and being a strage dream....All sometime after Shepard is effeted by object rho.

But not all Whispers are Indoctrination. Oily Shadows might be one way to describe those things, but they are clearly People. And not really oily, more cloud-like.

Object Rho happened more than 6 Months before the Start of ME3. You can do it before starting the suicide Mission.
In Retribution Grayson heard Whispers and was able to understand that it was the Reapers talking to him. And he was stoned when he did that.

[KingZayd]

Tleining wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Agein....how can I make this clear....Indoctrination is the only tech seen that can control organics......If TIm got it from reaper tech....It's indoctrination...It not something else.

If i take a LaserPistol and manage to reverse Engineer it, it might be a LaserPistol, but it won't be the same.

Reapers indoctrinate. If TIM manages to reverse Engineer it, he can do something similiar, but it won't be Reaper Indoctrination.

KingZayd wrote...

The sanctuary method makes it clear that TIM has been researching indoctrination and how it works. The husks are indoctrinated (fast form, damages brains leads to zombification). The EM signal is the same sort used by the reapers to control their husks. It's provided as an explanation for how Cerberus has managed to amass such large, loyal forces.

No. They were researching the huskification/conversion-Process. The Implants/DragonTeeth are connected to the Reapers, so the Husks and anyone implanted with Reaper tech is being controlled by the Reapers. That's where QE comes in.
Indoctrination works through sound that can be transmitted by Husks.

Huskification IS fast form indoctrination. "The mental damage from indoctrination is severe and permanent. As Shepard saw, the captured salarians on Virmire had been turned into shambling husks, who either attacked on sight or just stood awaiting orders. Only people with immense mental strength are able to resist indoctrination, and even then, only for a short time. "

Modifié par KingZayd, 17 avril 2012 - 02:27 .

[dreman9999]

Tleining wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Whispers are sounds....You hear them in Sheps dreams. It already been stated that people under the prosecc of indoctrination here whispers....


Also, it doesn't matter that they are talking about about indoctination in general. This is how all indoctrination is like...A warp reality for the person it happens to...

You forgetting one last thing as well....

Fact 6. The reapers can manipulate dreams..
.http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ldIJFRvDUp4#t=690s

The reseachers on project rho in Arrival also taked about strange dreams  when they were being indoctrinated.

http://www.youtube.c...TITiTw#t=249s  
.....
Point being....the dreams are showing 3 signs of indoctrination at once......Whispers, oily shadows, and being a strage dream....All sometime after Shepard is effeted by object rho.

But not all Whispers are Indoctrination. Oily Shadows might be one way to describe those things, but they are clearly People. And not really oily, more cloud-like.

Object Rho happened more than 6 Months before the Start of ME3. You can do it before starting the suicide Mission.
In Retribution Grayson heard Whispers and was able to understand that it was the Reapers talking to him. And he was stoned when he did that.

Every person you talk to that has been indoctrinated talks about whispers....Every single one....I've checked... Anyone in the process of indoctrination hears whispers hears.

Modifié par dreman9999, 17 avril 2012 - 02:29 .