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[Gwindor The Witchhunter]

 Where were the Elven Pantheon during the exalted march of the Orlesian Templars against the Dalish?

 Why did an elven rite for the departed invoke the appearance of Flemeth at the altar at Sundermount? 

Is there a connection between Flemeth and the elven pantheon?

[whykikyouwhy]

Some speculation, in order of your questions:

 - Where was any deity during any of the conflicts in and around Thedas? I'm not aware of any tales or lore where divine beings set foot upon the land and intervened or involved themselves in the matter of mortals during such strife. You could consider the codex entry on Arlathan (part two) as an explanation, which states:

"They say that Fen'Harel, the Dread Wolf and Lord of Tricksters, approached the ancient gods of good and evil and proposed a truce. The gods of good would remove themselves to heaven, and the lords of evil would exile themselves to the abyss, neither group ever again to enter the other's lands. But the gods did not know that Fen'Harel had planned to betray them, and by the time they realized the Dread Wolf's treachery, they were sealed in their respective realms, never again to interact with the mortal world. "

 - Is it the rite that was important or the altar itself? Or both? Perhaps Flemeth is representative of the phoenix - and so must rise from figurative ashes (her "death" and thus through a rite for the departed). Maybe the whole ritual was simply symbolic for her rebirth, as all of the pieces and fragments were once again combined. I suspect there is some significance to the ritual being conducted at an altar to Mythal, in an area where there was a fierce battle - thus all manner of energies and magicks may be focused there.

 - I think there's a connection between Flemeth and the elves. It's possible she is of the pantheon (some theorize she is Fen'Harel, others Mythal - perhaps she is an avatar of one). It's possible that she is old enough to have walked the lands at the same time as the elven gods. She knows the elves though - from times past - and they know her. Merrill may have some more insight into who Asha'Bellanar truly is.

Modifié par whykikyouwhy, 17 avril 2012 - 10:04 .

[Gwindor The Witchhunter]

whykikyouwhy wrote...

Some speculation, in order of your questions:

 - Where was any deity during any of the conflicts in and around Thedas? I'm not aware of any tales or lore where divine beings set foot upon the land and intervened or involved themselves in the matter of mortals during such strife. You could consider the codex entry on Arlathan (part two) as an explanation, which states:

Your right and i know that.  I thought  that the elves were in direct contact with the elven gods at some primal point in their history. At least, what they perceived or believed to be the elven gods of their traditions. I was curious as to when that stopped. So currently the Dalish hold that the elven gods have left them to live on their own devices?

Modifié par Gwindor The Witchhunter, 17 avril 2012 - 04:34 .

[Gwindor The Witchhunter]

whykikyouwhy wrote...


 - I think there's a connection between Flemeth and the elves. It's possible she is of the pantheon (some theorize she is Fen'Harel, others Mythal - perhaps she is an avatar of one). It's possible that she is old enough to have walked the lands at the same time as the elven gods. She knows the elves though - from times past - and they know her. Merrill may have some more insight into who Asha'Bellanar truly is.

Yes that is very likely. Good one.  

[Gwindor The Witchhunter]

I wonder if Shartan viewed Andraste as someone coming from a place of Truth? In that sense, was there more to his alliegance with Andraste apart from the freedom he sought for his people?

[Gwindor The Witchhunter]

Maybe i shoudn't have killed Flemeth at DAO.

[whykikyouwhy]

Gwindor The Witchhunter wrote...

Maybe i shoudn't have killed Flemeth at DAO.

It's ok. Asha'Bellanar is not so easily vanquished. 

[Gwindor The Witchhunter]

Faerunner wrote...

Gwindor The Witchhunter wrote...

I wonder if Shartan viewed Andraste as someone coming from a place of Truth? In that sense, was there more to his alliegance with Andraste apart from the freedom he sought for his people?

What "place of Truth"? That she was the true Bride of the Maker and that he followed her out of reverence for her religion and not just to restore the religion and culture of his people? I doubt it.

The spirit of Shartan says at the Gauntlet: "It was my dream for the people to have a home of their own, where we would have no masters but ourselves. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, and thus we followed Andraste, against the Imperium."

Shartan wanted to see his people freed from human rule and Andraste was the first to look like she could make it happen. Maybe they were respected allies or even great friends (the Codex entry: Glandivalis seems to imply as much, since Shartan's signature weapon was given to him by Andraste and he even fought by her husband's side), but I wouldn't go so far as to say that he believed in her god, that she was the bride of such, or that he fought to free his people from one human oppressor just so they could bend their knees to a new human god or nation.

Noted. Thanks for the recap info.

[Gwindor The Witchhunter]

sjpelkessjpeler wrote...

Andraste went to mount Sundermount on a retreat for three days and when she came down she was crying and wouldn't tell what happened to her there.
.

That i didn't know. Really? I'll look that up.

[RonixisJK]

whykikyouwhy wrote...
Merrill may have some more insight into who Asha'Bellanar truly is.

I seem to recall Merrill explicitly denying any such knowledge when you do the altar quest on Sundermount in Act 1, when Flemeth asked why she was kneeling.

[whykikyouwhy]

RonixisJK wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...
Merrill may have some more insight into who Asha'Bellanar truly is.

I seem to recall Merrill explicitly denying any such knowledge when you do the altar quest on Sundermount in Act 1, when Flemeth asked why she was kneeling.

The scene unfolds like this:

Merrill: *bows and says a few words in Dalish*

Flemeth: One of the people...(etc etc) Do you know who I am, beyond that title?

Merrill: I know only a little.

I used this video for reference. It's at the 1:05 mark or so.

So she doesn't deny knowing who Flemeth is, but does admit to her knowledge being limited. But the fact that she knows "a little" beyond the title is interesting, imo, since pretty much what we (and the PC) know about the Witch consists of a title (or two) and the fact that she can shapeshift. It's possible that in her role as the First, Merrill has been privy to lore that the average Dalish would not have access to.

[Gwindor The Witchhunter]

None of the keepers foresaw the advent of the chantry???

[Gwindor The Witchhunter]

Sorry, still thinking out loud.

[Gwindor The Witchhunter]

Well the way i see it, if not for Andraste, all of thedas would be praying to demons.

[gonzalez.melissa53]

If Flemeth is hanging with any god types it the Travinter guys. The whole dragon thing makes my spider sences tingle! And the new comics... Well they are awesome! Go read them if you haven't yet XD You'll love them.

[Maria Caliban]

Faerunner wrote...

The spirit of Shartan says at the Gauntlet: "It was my dream for the people to have a home of their own, where we would have no masters but ourselves. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, and thus we followed Andraste, against the Imperium."

Something claiming to be the spirit of Shartan says that.

[Gwindor The Witchhunter]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Something claiming to be the spirit of Shartan says that.

Geez where does it stop with you. No way, unless officially stated,  not even your scrutiny can affirm that

[Gwindor The Witchhunter]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Something claiming to be the spirit of Shartan says that.

 Anyway, I wonder what the disembodied ‘Shartan’ stood to gain by testing the warden’s faith .
 
People can argue every angle from their own side of the fence, but its disturbing when people argue every angle there is.  – Monk to the dismissive ego driven nihilist.
 

[Gwindor The Witchhunter]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Something claiming to be the spirit of Shartan says that.

I'd feel cheated as a player. After time invested playing the game. Just to find that out? No way.

[Big I]

Faerunner wrote...
The spirit of Shartan says at the Gauntlet: "It was my dream for the people to have a home of their own, where we would have no masters but ourselves. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, and thus we followed Andraste, against the Imperium."

Just FYI, Shartan eventually became a "devotee of Andraste", it's mentioned in the codex entry for Glandivalis