57 réponses à ce sujet

[finalcabbage]

Doesn't Meredith tell mage hawke she knows he's an apostate at the end of act 2? I seem to recall that happening but my last mage play through was a while ago. It's like the only time I remember a templar reacting to mage hawke being a mage.

[prizm123]

GavrielKay wrote...

thats1evildude wrote...
Again, this speaks to a fundamental difference to how you and I view that quest. You see Decimus as an oppressed mage who can't tell the difference between friend and foe because the writing staff dropped the ball on his characterization. I see a corrupt maleficar who's so far gone that he doesn't care about the distinction.

I always saw Decimus as just another stop on the plot railroad meant to give us some not very well integrated scenes with Grace.  The writers tried to create a gray area by making both sides insane rather than making both sides have reasonable points.

i wanted to fry Grace on the spot because I didn't trust her..... speaking  of being railroaded...

[Merengues 1945]

Cantina wrote...


In Origins if you were a mage people were aware of what you
were, especially the Templars. In Kirkwall, I would have assumed the same thing
would have happened, but it never did.

In origins you're a grey warden... the wardens are off the jurisdiction of the chantry, the right of conscription works on nobles, thiefs, mages, templars, seekers or whatever and the chantry, even the divine or the lord seeker must suck it up.

Being a warden makes you non an apostate nor a mage of the circle, but you need to keep working on your duties.. otherwise you return to apostate status like Anders.

In DA2 this is in fact an important plothole because even nobles with magic can't avoid the circle.. the only reason to be a mage and don't give a damn about the templars is to be a magister of tevinter or a very important guy who is now "free" like Wynne.

[FieryDove]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I believe there was mention of the game already being done and it was too late to change anything when the writing was finished.

That's just a poor excuse we were given. Either they're just giving off excuses to justify the bad game design or there is a gigantic disconnect between everyone at Bioware.

And I don't know which to believe, because both are equally likely.

Fact: Bioware had made it clear from the get-go that Hawke would be human only, but they retained the classes. Which means that an apostate should've had recognition in game.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I can't buy this line of thought about how they "didn't think of it". The game was specifically written about Mages and Templars, so of course blood mage was going to be a specialization available to the player. A fair portion of the game deals with blood magic and blood magic was a key part of the setting's background, so the devs should've known that blood mage was going to be a spec available to the players -- and by extension the Reaver class since it's also a form of blood magic -- in DAII.

Being a blood mage didn't even have any recognition in Legacy which was almost entirely focused on blood magic.

Think about this. There were 6 mage specs in Origins-Awakening. Bioware removed the Keeper spec and gave it to Merrill.

Now we're at 5.

They felt the Shapeshifter was a bit of a useless spec IIRC and removed the Arcane Warrior for some other reason. One could think that the change in gameplay was done to make Mages their own sort of Arcane Warriors.

Though I don't remember the reason why Arcane Warrior was removed, but I'd like to see it again.

Anyway, now we're down to three: Blood Mage, Spirit Healer, Battlemage.

Out of those 3, which 2 have the most importance to DAII's plot, setting, and history?

In DA2-
The specializations were done last after everything else. No way to go back and add things in that late with such a short (Most ship nao!) schedule.

Shapeshifter used too much overhead on the consoles in DAO and the trade-offs (whatever they were) were not worth it. The forms had to remain in memory the entire time even if you were not a shifter. Yes, a dev said that. I wonder if the circle fade in dao forms had to also say resident in memory?

On Arcane warrior I'm guessing it was too OP and balancing would be too hard, plus it would clash with the new weapon restictions per class.

I really do want Arcane warrior back plus bard, ranger (Summon Gorilla), battlemage and yes shapeshifter it can be balanced better like with anything else.

Modifié par FieryDove, 22 avril 2012 - 03:47 .

[DPSSOC]

finalcabbage wrote...

Doesn't Meredith tell mage hawke she knows he's an apostate at the end of act 2? I seem to recall that happening but my last mage play through was a while ago. It's like the only time I remember a templar reacting to mage hawke being a mage.

If I'm remembering that scene right she comments on you being a mage after witnessing you fighting Qunari, but it seemed to me she didn't know about it before.

[FieryDove]

DPSSOC wrote...

finalcabbage wrote...

Doesn't Meredith tell mage hawke she knows he's an apostate at the end of act 2? I seem to recall that happening but my last mage play through was a while ago. It's like the only time I remember a templar reacting to mage hawke being a mage.

If I'm remembering that scene right she comments on you being a mage after witnessing you fighting Qunari, but it seemed to me she didn't know about it before.

That's what I remember also.

She seemed surprised. "Strange, Sir Carver never mentioned you" Kinda thing.

I was kind of surprised at the companions not saying anything. Janders would have lit up like a xmas tree and so would Fenris in the company of a Blood Mage I would think.

[TEWR]

FieryDove wrote...

*snip*

Yea, with a game that had such a huge focus on Mages, Templars, Blood Mages, and everything else, common sense would indicate that being a blood mage would be a class present. And it should've been planned for.

And it still doesn't excuse the fact that Bioware knew a Mage was planned for the game in any playthrough, yet didn't even account for that.

So again, no excuse for why Mages go unrecognized other then Bioware limiting themselves to the short dev time.

But to say "We didn't know Blood Mage would be important"... well that's just absurd and I'm never buying it. If they just said "We didn't have enough time" instead of saying "We didn't know these specializations were going to be in the game, so we couldn't do much for them when we found out", then I would've bought it begrudgingly.

So it just goes back to what I said before: Either a large disconnect is present between the Bioware staff or they're just coming up with some poor excuses.

Doesn't matter what they say. They knew they were making a game centered around Mages and Templars with a Mage focus for the protagonist in any playthrough.

They knew Anders and Merrill were coming back, both of whom would be targeted by the Chantry for different reasons. Anders is an Abomination and Merrill's a blood mage.

There is absolutely no excuse that can justify them doing nothing about these things other then "We limited ourselves to a short dev cycle where we ****ed up" (not in those exact words, but that would be the gist of it).

EDIT: Think I may have misunderstood your post at first. Sorry!

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 22 avril 2012 - 04:28 .

[Sharn01]

Nah, it wasnt a mage, it was one of those fighters, I see them making earthquakes by punching the ground all the time, they must have learned a new fire or lightning punch skill.