339 réponses à ce sujet

[mirage2154]

John Epler wrote...

mirage2154 wrote...

Better loss one hand than both hands, If ME is dead, atleast they can save DA. The time to get so Reputation for DA3 team so people could pre-order the game. They just playing with your emotion guys! It's sickening!

If that's how you feel, there's not much I can say about it. But if this were true - why are they using a fairly junior developer to do so? Wouldn't it be far more effective to take someone senior and have them do what I'm doing? The only thing I do that differentiates me from a number of other people on the team is that I'm rather more vocal on the forums.

I mean, you're entitled to your opinion, but when you see a conspiracy in everything there's really not much I can say to change your mind.

I think I have to apollogize for my opnion. I have lost myself in negative emotion toward whole BW team, and I have admint that non of my opnion is base on facts. I think whatever the truth is, the people who make the game knows it better, for good or for ill. The only person we all have to face is ourself there's no escapse from it. Thank of showing the uglyside of myself.

[John Epler]

mirage2154 wrote...

John Epler wrote...

mirage2154 wrote...

Better loss one hand than both hands, If ME is dead, atleast they can save DA. The time to get so Reputation for DA3 team so people could pre-order the game. They just playing with your emotion guys! It's sickening!

If that's how you feel, there's not much I can say about it. But if this were true - why are they using a fairly junior developer to do so? Wouldn't it be far more effective to take someone senior and have them do what I'm doing? The only thing I do that differentiates me from a number of other people on the team is that I'm rather more vocal on the forums.

I mean, you're entitled to your opinion, but when you see a conspiracy in everything there's really not much I can say to change your mind.

I think I have to apollogize for my opnion. I have lost myself in negative emotion toward whole BW team, and I have admint that non of my opnion is base on facts. I think whatever the truth is, the people who make the game knows it better, for good or for ill. The only person we all have to face is ourself there's no escapse from it. Thank of showing the uglyside of myself.

No worries whatsoever. It's easy to get lost in emotion, and I certainly don't fault you for it. 

[Isichar]

John Epler wrote...

mirage2154 wrote...

John Epler wrote...

mirage2154 wrote...

Better loss one hand than both hands, If ME is dead, atleast they can save DA. The time to get so Reputation for DA3 team so people could pre-order the game. They just playing with your emotion guys! It's sickening!

If that's how you feel, there's not much I can say about it. But if this were true - why are they using a fairly junior developer to do so? Wouldn't it be far more effective to take someone senior and have them do what I'm doing? The only thing I do that differentiates me from a number of other people on the team is that I'm rather more vocal on the forums.

I mean, you're entitled to your opinion, but when you see a conspiracy in everything there's really not much I can say to change your mind.

I think I have to apollogize for my opnion. I have lost myself in negative emotion toward whole BW team, and I have admint that non of my opnion is base on facts. I think whatever the truth is, the people who make the game knows it better, for good or for ill. The only person we all have to face is ourself there's no escapse from it. Thank of showing the uglyside of myself.

No worries whatsoever. It's easy to get lost in emotion, and I certainly don't fault you for it. 

This entire string of posts is a funny example of the point I have been trying to make.. Not sure if you guys saw it

Modifié par Isichar, 18 avril 2012 - 05:47 .

[Pacifien]

Isichar wrote...
Well its not just on these forums, basically anything that comes from a bioware employee is filtered.

I don't think they're filtered on purpose based on previous experience. Like the one time I said something about ME3's multiplayer that was completely inaccurate and yet quoted as fact in all the gaming media the next day simply because I had the "moderator" tag on my name at the time. Employees learn to self-filter because *anything* they say will be torn apart. I think Stanley Woo has written as such multiple times when people question him on it.

I know I always try to take particular care in my choice of words on forums to make sure my point is clear, and it's annoying when people take it out of context. I imagine it's especially annoying when every word you make is considered a promise.

[ashwind]

Maybe the DA Mods are "practicing/preparing" for the Community when DA3 hits =P

I remember DA2 was under lots of fire when it rolled out and it was not only about the ending =D

p/s: DA Mods, if DA3 uses recycle maps again, I assure you no practice will be enough to prepare you guys for the blasting 

Modifié par ashwind, 18 avril 2012 - 05:50 .

[Allan Schumacher]

No worries whatsoever. It's easy to get lost in emotion, and I certainly don't fault you for it.

He faults me for it all the time though.  "QA this.  QA that.  Stop hitting yourself!"


(Actually John seems A-OK and I really should try to get in on his lunchtime ME3 MP matches >.>)

[Grusome11]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

My point is that anyone "bullying" (not my word, but it will do) anyone on the internet is BS. How can you be bullied if you can easily avoid the person who is bothering you?

Just keep in mind that an effective way to deal with it is to not post. I had some horrific things said to me in regards to DAO and when you're not expecting it it's best to just take a break IMO.


I'll echo John though that I've kept posting because for the most part the community has kept it civil and fun, even if we don't agree on all issues. So props to them.

And this is likely the reason you do not see ME3 people posting. There are a lot fo people upset, and why would you put yourself through that.

In the end, it is the project manager who is responsible. Would you want to come online and take crap for the ending if you were tree shader #3?

Even the project manager might not be responsible. Who knows what happened. Maybe he was told that there would be an ME4 and they wanted certain elements in it (multiplayer?) therefore end it in a certain way.

Point being we do know what happened and will not unless they tell us. Hate the ending if you want, blame certain people, but remember we do not know what directions/pressures they were working under.

[Isichar]

Pacifien wrote...

Isichar wrote...
Well its not just on these forums, basically anything that comes from a bioware employee is filtered.

I don't think they're filtered on purpose based on previous experience. Like the one time I said something about ME3's multiplayer that was completely inaccurate and yet quoted as fact in all the gaming media the next day simply because I had the "moderator" tag on my name at the time. Employees learn to self-filter because *anything* they say will be torn apart. I think Stanley Woo has written as such multiple times when people question him on it.

I know I always try to take particular care in my choice of words on forums to make sure my point is clear, and it's annoying when people take it out of context. I imagine it's especially annoying when every word you make is considered a promise.

Yep seen it too many times to count. The DA team and the mods on these forums probably understand the best how their own words can be used against them and constantly out of context, which is terribly frustrating for the fans who actually care about what they are saying as more then a weapon to be used against them. I for example dont want the ending explained because I want to tell them why they are wrong for it, i want it explained because i genuinely want to understand how it was suppose to be viewed.

[GuardianAngel470]

John Epler wrote...

mirage2154 wrote...

Better loss one hand than both hands, If ME is dead, atleast they can save DA. The time to get so Reputation for DA3 team so people could pre-order the game. They just playing with your emotion guys! It's sickening!

If that's how you feel, there's not much I can say about it. But if this were true - why are they using a fairly junior developer to do so? Wouldn't it be far more effective to take someone senior and have them do what I'm doing? The only thing I do that differentiates me from a number of other people on the team is that I'm rather more vocal on the forums.

I mean, you're entitled to your opinion, but when you see a conspiracy in everything there's really not much I can say to change your mind.

Not to be a contrarian John but most conspiracy theories are born, are propagated, and grow because of silence. "No comment" is what speculation is caused by, leading to ideas that become theories, theories that are spread and grow in complexity until the entire situation becomes one big conspiracy to people.

Fact: Silence is a standard marketing technique. Why? Because it gets people talking about things, gets them inventing ideas and spreading those ideas around of their own free will until a large amount of people is spending time thinking about and talking about your product.

Problem is Silence is a very bad damage control technique. Why? Because it makes people who were disatisfied with your product feel ignored and then they talk about their frustration with other people and that frustration grows due to mob mentalities until you are presented with a situation where a large part of your consumer base is furious AT YOU.

This didn't used to be the case. Silence used to be a great damage control technique. Then the internet happened. Now dissatisfied consumers from countries on opposite sides of the globe can share their frustration. We've seen this happen.

I don't want you to get the wrong impression. We all appreciate you being here, that's actually evident in the OP of this thread. Getting to talk to the developers is like getting to talk with celebrities; you're the guys behind some of our favorite games. We appreciate getting to talk to you, but we simply wish we could actually learn something about what we want to know about. When all we ever get is silence we can't help but find conspiracies. It's just human nature.

So basically, this post is designed to give you a little insight to why we see lies, conspiracies, and false positives everywhere. It's just our imaginations doing what's natural.

[Deemz]

ashwind wrote...

Maybe the DA Mods are "practicing/preparing" for the Community when DA3 hits =P

I remember DA2 was under lots of fire when it rolled out and it was not only about the ending =D

p/s: DA Mods, if DA3 uses recycle maps again, I assure you no practice will be enough to prepare you guys for the blasting 

I must be one of the few who really liked DA2. I enjoyed the story so much. In fact my PS3 version arrives tomorrow.

[Isichar]

Deemz wrote...

ashwind wrote...

Maybe the DA Mods are "practicing/preparing" for the Community when DA3 hits =P

I remember DA2 was under lots of fire when it rolled out and it was not only about the ending =D

p/s: DA Mods, if DA3 uses recycle maps again, I assure you no practice will be enough to prepare you guys for the blasting 

I must be one of the few who really liked DA2. I enjoyed the story so much. In fact my PS3 version arrives tomorrow.

Oh man dont get me wrong. I enjoyed DA2 but the recycled maps became...

...

Modifié par Isichar, 18 avril 2012 - 05:57 .

[Sean]

John Epler wrote...

mirage2154 wrote...

John Epler wrote...

mirage2154 wrote...

Better loss one hand than both hands, If ME is dead, atleast they can save DA. The time to get so Reputation for DA3 team so people could pre-order the game. They just playing with your emotion guys! It's sickening!

If that's how you feel, there's not much I can say about it. But if this were true - why are they using a fairly junior developer to do so? Wouldn't it be far more effective to take someone senior and have them do what I'm doing? The only thing I do that differentiates me from a number of other people on the team is that I'm rather more vocal on the forums.

I mean, you're entitled to your opinion, but when you see a conspiracy in everything there's really not much I can say to change your mind.

I think I have to apollogize for my opnion. I have lost myself in negative emotion toward whole BW team, and I have admint that non of my opnion is base on facts. I think whatever the truth is, the people who make the game knows it better, for good or for ill. The only person we all have to face is ourself there's no escapse from it. Thank of showing the uglyside of myself.

No worries whatsoever. It's easy to get lost in emotion, and I certainly don't fault you for it. 

I need to ask this and would greatly appreciate an answer.

I have played DAO, DA2, ME1, ME2, ME3 and one thing I noticed is that many things have from a game to its sequel.

The part that I didn't like (THIS IS NOTHING ABOUT PLOT) were the fetch missions from DA2, I thought they just were unimaginative (but that is my opinion) and why were they introduced in ME3?

I understand being from a different team but the fetch missions (overhear conversation between NPCs, go to world area, return item that looks meaningless) just were bland.

One thing I did like better in DA2 was that at least you would see the item in the world but in ME3 you would just scan a planet and get a text box and NEVER see the item and then return it. I thought it would have been better even if it just reused an area (similar to the ME1 warehouses) because that seemed more fitting.

So who thought up the fetch missions? They just seemed (from a customer perspective) like an quick way out of level designing. I just want to learn the views of Bioware employees in terms of those types of missions.


Also on a small side note. The journal system in ME3 is awful since when you open the journal it starts in the middle of the missions (all missions, including completed ones) and the journal was mostly cluttered by the fetch missions.

[ashwind]

Isichar wrote...

Deemz wrote...

ashwind wrote...

Maybe the DA Mods are "practicing/preparing" for the Community when DA3 hits =P

I remember DA2 was under lots of fire when it rolled out and it was not only about the ending =D

p/s: DA Mods, if DA3 uses recycle maps again, I assure you no practice will be enough to prepare you guys for the blasting 

I must be one of the few who really liked DA2. I enjoyed the story so much. In fact my PS3 version arrives tomorrow.

Oh man dont get me wrong. I enjoyed DA2 but the recycled maps became...

...

Yeah... that is how I feel exactly... every dungeon is like... ouch  and we spent the entire game trapped in Kirkwall... double ouch 

[Terror_K]

One of the facts in this matter is, John, that when so many promises were broken and so many so-called claims were out and out lies, it's just hard to believe much of what the Mass Effect team say. At all. Especially when they do things like post claims that they, "are listening" and then follow-up with news to the contrary, advertise ME3 by twisting quotes about its ending to make it sound like a positive thing, and release a "fix" to the face import bug that doesn't even work and then lie about the nature of it and ignore the fact that it's still broken.

It's like every single week on these forums there's a new lie from BioWare and a new example of them showing they just don't care and overall treat their fans with disdain.

So while there may be rude people out there who say some very nasty things because they're very angry, I personally don't blame them at all given how BioWare and the Mass Effect team are handling things. It was the attitude of some key members of the DA2 staff that killed the Dragon Age series for me more than the issues I had with the game itself, and the Mass Effect team are making the same damn mistakes.

Modifié par Terror_K, 18 avril 2012 - 06:06 .

[Isichar]

Also on a small side note. The journal system in ME3 is awful since when you open the journal it starts in the middle of the missions (all missions, including completed ones) and the journal was mostly cluttered by the fetch missions.

Hated the journal so much. How did they mess up such a simple feature that they have done properly for over a decade?!

[soulprovider]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Because the the DA mods are listening to our feedback and passing it onto the DA3 team perhaps?

doubtful,  even if they did pass our feedback on there are so many angry and put off fans that it's still going to tank. Then in 2014 we'll see Bioware shut its doors, I almost garruntee that will happen given the current state of affairs. It seems to follow a pattern with these large publishers; they buy up small studios, use them to bleed the fanbase dry ,then close them when they stop making a profit and then exploit their IP's to the fullest(westwood anyone) using their newest aquired studio to do so(bioware working on the new generals game...anyone!?) then rinse and repeat. Then bleed the fans nostalgia for the older games dry(the first decade) and then with the new games find a new way to get even more money out of the consumers.......(charge a dollar for ammo anyone!?). 

basically I firmly beleive that once EA shuts bioware down they will milk the franchises for all they are worth ,until they are so horribly done that a new studio will have to come in and rework the franchise from the ground up to try and redeem it in the players eyes both new and old(command and conquer anyone!?)

would find way to throw a spored reference in there somewhere but I think i've explained enough I hope.

Modifié par soulprovider, 18 avril 2012 - 06:14 .

[Auralius Carolus]

Another good thread: We bait the Mods into talking with us! Muhahahaha.

Soon, we shall know all their secrets...

*releases the messanger chinchillas* Go my pretties! Take words to the others- victory shall soon be ours and... *notices the chat monitor is posting the entire conversation*

[Isichar]

Terror_K wrote...

One of the facts in this matter is, John, that when so many promises were broken and so many so-called claims were out and out lies, it's just hard to believe much of what the Mass Effect team say. At all. Especially when they do things like post claims that they, "are listening" and then follow-up with news to the contrary, advertise ME3 by twisting quotes about its ending to make it sound like a positive thing, and release a "fix" to the face import bug that doesn't even work and then lie about the nature of it and ignore the fact that it's still broken.

It's like every single week on these forums there's a new lie from BioWare and a new example of them showing they just don't care and overall treat their fans with disdain.

So while there may be rude people out there who say some very nasty things because they're very angry, I personally don't blame them at all given how BioWare and the Mass Effect team are handling things.

I said it before ill say it again. Im interested in what form they are listening. Is someone from bioware payed to just take notes on the things talked about around the forums and such?

Modifié par Isichar, 18 avril 2012 - 06:06 .

[Pacifien]

Isichar wrote...
I for example dont want the ending explained because I want to tell them why they are wrong for it, i want it explained because i genuinely want to understand how it was suppose to be viewed.

I also would love to know their thinking process behind the ending, but I'm one of the seemingly few who had little issue with it. But even if I want to know their thinking process behind it, I don't want them to explain it as "this is what it is, stop speculating." People keep saying they want them to either confirm or outright deny the indoctrination theory, but I think they're right to let it breath on its own even if they had never intended it.

It reminds me very much of the "Deckerd is a replicant" theory for Bladerunner, which was fan created to explain plotholes that came about during filming/editing that mentioned a fifth replicant which was in the script but was ultimately scrapped from the film itself. It became popular enough that Ridley Scott accepted it while Harrison Ford didn't.

And I think rather than "artistic integrity," perhaps what the developers should have said was "artistic interpretation," because trying to understand what they were thinking was probably what they wanted from the ending.... I can't say they did it all that well, but considering how they never hid the fact they were 100% influenced by late 70s/early 80s science fiction, I can see why they tried.

Anyway, yes, no one's going to get those types of answers from an ME developer here because the question isn't why they did it so much as fix it. No, I don't care why you did it, fix it. FIX IT, NOW! Why aren't you fixing it? Why are you trying to explain it to me when you could be fixing it? No, don't tweak it! FIX IT! That means change it! Everything about i--right, I've officially lost it for the evening. Sleep now.

[Isichar]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Another good thread: We bait the Mods into talking with us! Muhahahaha.

Soon, we shall know all their secrets...

*releases the messanger chinchillas* Go my pretties! Take words to the others- victory shall soon be ours and... *notices the chat monitor is posting the entire conversation*

Well I still need to figure out what kind of pie Stanley Woo likes most after all.

[EvilChani]

John Epler wrote...

Really? Your response is 'well who cares, they should toughen up?'

It's rather different when you're acting as an anonymous individual, rather than when you're acting as a representative of a company and using your own name. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but this is a silly response. There's a reason why the concept of 'online bullying' has gotten a lot of attention as of late, and I can tell you that I get my share of threats and personal insults.

I shrug it off because, well, I've spent enough time on the forums that my skin is reasonably thick. Others may not want to expose themselves to that sort of thing when it's not part of their duties, and I really can't blame them. It took me a while to stop taking things personally.

It's not as easy as saying 'well if they're adults they should just deal with it'.

You're right, it's not that easy. Being insulted and threatened sucks, no matter how you look at it, and when you're dealing with faceless (for all practical purposes) people, you don't have to see how much what you say can hurt and/or anger them. But what you guys have to realize is that it works both ways. There are BioWare fans who were both hurt and angry at this game, and though some of us grasp at Casey's words, or Mike Gamble's words, what really bothers some of us is that we feel betrayed on a more personal level.

It may sound stupid, but when you take into the consideration that a lot of us swore by BioWare's products for years now, and happily told our friends, family, and fellow gamers that BioWare could always be counted on to provide an awesome gaming experience where you had a great deal of control over your character's story and the relationships with whatever squad that was provided had more depth than anything ever seen in gaming before. As a former D&D player (yes, that dates me), I always felt that you guys did the best job of providing that experience all wrapped up in a video game with awesome graphics. You guys were the dungeon masters, shaping our stories and providing challenges, managing and narrating the overall story while you let us, through our character, choose the path our story took. That was something that was incredibly appealing to most everyone who loves RPGs.

While there are many RPGs to choose from, none gave us what BioWare has given us in the past. JRPGs are too fixed in their stories, IMO, and while I love the open world RPGs (Fallout, Oblivion, Skyrim, etc.) and you have total control over what you do and when, they are extremely lacking in personal relationships (Boone is awesome in New Vegas, but you never really feel like you know him that well, and in Skyrim your companions are strangers, for all practical purposes, so the only way to make more of a story is to play it out in your head or fanfic!), and it's the personal touches that BioWare adds that make the games feel so real. Like Carth in KOTOR? Flirt with him. Like Canderous? Make him run around and fight in his underwear! For me, and for a number of others I know, the difference between a BioWare game and a game by another company is simple - with another company's RPG, you may get obsessed with finishing it or completing all the quests or finding every single place there is in the "world", but you aren't drawn into the world and the story the way you are with a BioWare game, because with previous BioWare games, the story belonged to the player as much as to BioWare. And if you think I've gotten off topic, you're wrong... 

The point is that the anger, frustration, and rudeness you see is because it is easy to take this whole thing personally on our end, no matter how silly it sounds. What we expected in ME3 wasn't so much based on what Casey Hudson said...or what Mike Gamble said...it's from what we knew BioWare would give us. BioWare doesn't give us games that leave us confused...or depressed...or overly sad. Yes, things may happen in a game that tear at our hearts, but the end of a BioWare game always makes us want more. We feel good when we get done! There's hope, whether your character was a hero or a douchebag. Looking at KOTOR again, Revan was being applauded either way, wheter she/he sided with the Sith or not. DA:O...even if the Warden died, he/she won. But the option to win and survive was there. The option to be a douche and sacrifice other people in your stead was there as well. Pretty much the same can be said for the first two ME games. At the end, we wanted more. More, more more. We wanted to load another save, start another character, tell all our friends to play so we could compare notes. Hell, I played ME1 from start to finish, only stopping long enough to eat and sleep for a few hours a night. It was just that awesome. ME2, after I got over the initial annoyances and got used to them (having to use heat sinks, running out of fuel, etc.), was just as awesome, if not more so (insert shameless Thane plug here!). 

With ME3? I can't stand to even look at the box. I dont' want to touch the first two games because, honestly, what's the point? And, for me, it isn't just the end. The whole game is one big depressing, "stab me in the head with a firepoker to ease the pain" story. Also, the ball was dropped on various plot points (e.g., Rachni and, as admitted by a BioWare employee, Thane...how can you forget a character that was such a huge part of ME2??). The trilogy ends in hopelessness, depression and despair, and those things taste like crap. It wasn't bittersweet...it was just bitter. So yes, people are angry. But again, it's not just about the game itself. They're mad because a company that has always given us games we want to play over and over again, to the point where some people roll their eyes and run away when you say the word 'BioWare', gave us something that makes us want to avoid the game completely. Some of us feel duped.

It's bad to feel as though you were lied to directly - it's even worse to feel that you misplaced your trust, and that does feel personal, especially when no one will really respond directly to what we're saying. So yes, people get personal with BioWare employees in their anger because it feels personal to them already because a company they trusted went from responding to their fans' wishes and complaints to completely ignoring them - or, worse, responding with impersonal, what seems to be insulting PR garbage. The non-response from BioWare (and the comments from various people stating that they were "shocked" at the negative responses when they have to know damn well that BioWare's history gives us certain expectations) just feeds the fire. 

I'm not excusing that sort of behavior - there is no reason or cause to personally threaten anyone at BioWare outside of the "hold the wallet" campaign, no matter how angry we are - but the whole "our side/your side" thing has developed for a reason. And until some remedy has been applied, and there has been some constructive communication from BioWare on the matter, the division will most likely continue. 

[zenoxis]

Can we at least get confirmation that the devs working on Mass Effect actually look at these forums at all? I mean the fact that none of them have responded to any thread (meaningful and otherwise) is incredibly disconcerting.

[Pacifien]

Isichar wrote...
I said it before ill say it again. Im interested in what form they are listening. Is someone from bioware payed to just take notes on the things talked about around the forums and such?

The way I've heard it described, they will create categories and then place post-it notes of complaints under those categories based on feedback from everywhere, not just the forums. And many of the developers apparently do lurk on the forums specifically looking for such. I do know for a fact that the developers who were charge of combat mechanics were paying attention to the strategy forum for ME2.

Anyway, so imagine in Mass Effect 1, there was a post-it note about, say, Elevators. And the Mako. And inventory. So they got rid of all three. But then fans remembered that the elevators were the points where squadmates would actually talk to each other. So in Mass Effect 2, there's a post-it note about squad interaction. And then people said they went too far by eliminating the inventory altogether in ME2, so customization of various weapons returns in ME3.

I also like to think someone paid close attention to all those debates about the Heretic mission in ME2 because, damn, don't I feel vindicated in ME3 for my choice in that game. No wait, I was going to bed.

[Terror_K]

EvilChani wrote...

You're right, it's not that easy. Being insulted and threatened sucks, no matter how you look at it, and when you're dealing with faceless (for all practical purposes) people, you don't have to see how much what you say can hurt and/or anger them. But what you guys have to realize is that it works both ways. There are BioWare fans who were both hurt and angry at this game, and though some of us grasp at Casey's words, or Mike Gamble's words, what really bothers some of us is that we feel betrayed on a more personal level.

It may sound stupid, but when you take into the consideration that a lot of us swore by BioWare's products for years now, and happily told our friends, family, and fellow gamers that BioWare could always be counted on to provide an awesome gaming experience where you had a great deal of control over your character's story and the relationships with whatever squad that was provided had more depth than anything ever seen in gaming before. As a former D&D player (yes, that dates me), I always felt that you guys did the best job of providing that experience all wrapped up in a video game with awesome graphics. You guys were the dungeon masters, shaping our stories and providing challenges, managing and narrating the overall story while you let us, through our character, choose the path our story took. That was something that was incredibly appealing to most everyone who loves RPGs.

While there are many RPGs to choose from, none gave us what BioWare has given us in the past. JRPGs are too fixed in their stories, IMO, and while I love the open world RPGs (Fallout, Oblivion, Skyrim, etc.) and you have total control over what you do and when, they are extremely lacking in personal relationships (Boone is awesome in New Vegas, but you never really feel like you know him that well, and in Skyrim your companions are strangers, for all practical purposes, so the only way to make more of a story is to play it out in your head or fanfic!), and it's the personal touches that BioWare adds that make the games feel so real. Like Carth in KOTOR? Flirt with him. Like Canderous? Make him run around and fight in his underwear! For me, and for a number of others I know, the difference between a BioWare game and a game by another company is simple - with another company's RPG, you may get obsessed with finishing it or completing all the quests or finding every single place there is in the "world", but you aren't drawn into the world and the story the way you are with a BioWare game, because with previous BioWare games, the story belonged to the player as much as to BioWare. And if you think I've gotten off topic, you're wrong... 

The point is that the anger, frustration, and rudeness you see is because it is easy to take this whole thing personally on our end, no matter how silly it sounds. What we expected in ME3 wasn't so much based on what Casey Hudson said...or what Mike Gamble said...it's from what we knew BioWare would give us. BioWare doesn't give us games that leave us confused...or depressed...or overly sad. Yes, things may happen in a game that tear at our hearts, but the end of a BioWare game always makes us want more. We feel good when we get done! There's hope, whether your character was a hero or a douchebag. Looking at KOTOR again, Revan was being applauded either way, wheter she/he sided with the Sith or not. DA:O...even if the Warden died, he/she won. But the option to win and survive was there. The option to be a douche and sacrifice other people in your stead was there as well. Pretty much the same can be said for the first two ME games. At the end, we wanted more. More, more more. We wanted to load another save, start another character, tell all our friends to play so we could compare notes. Hell, I played ME1 from start to finish, only stopping long enough to eat and sleep for a few hours a night. It was just that awesome. ME2, after I got over the initial annoyances and got used to them (having to use heat sinks, running out of fuel, etc.), was just as awesome, if not more so (insert shameless Thane plug here!). 

With ME3? I can't stand to even look at the box. I dont' want to touch the first two games because, honestly, what's the point? And, for me, it isn't just the end. The whole game is one big depressing, "stab me in the head with a firepoker to ease the pain" story. Also, the ball was dropped on various plot points (e.g., Rachni and, as admitted by a BioWare employee, Thane...how can you forget a character that was such a huge part of ME2??). The trilogy ends in hopelessness, depression and despair, and those things taste like crap. It wasn't bittersweet...it was just bitter. So yes, people are angry. But again, it's not just about the game itself. They're mad because a company that has always given us games we want to play over and over again, to the point where some people roll their eyes and run away when you say the word 'BioWare', gave us something that makes us want to avoid the game completely. Some of us feel duped.

It's bad to feel as though you were lied to directly - it's even worse to feel that you misplaced your trust, and that does feel personal, especially when no one will really respond directly to what we're saying. So yes, people get personal with BioWare employees in their anger because it feels personal to them already because a company they trusted went from responding to their fans' wishes and complaints to completely ignoring them - or, worse, responding with impersonal, what seems to be insulting PR garbage. The non-response from BioWare (and the comments from various people stating that they were "shocked" at the negative responses when they have to know damn well that BioWare's history gives us certain expectations) just feeds the fire. 

I'm not excusing that sort of behavior - there is no reason or cause to personally threaten anyone at BioWare outside of the "hold the wallet" campaign, no matter how angry we are - but the whole "our side/your side" thing has developed for a reason. And until some remedy has been applied, and there has been some constructive communication from BioWare on the matter, the division will most likely continue. 

Very nice post, agreed.

I do have to say though, as much as insults and threats may hurt, I haven't read an insult on these forums that was any more insulting than Mass Effect 3 ended up being, especially the endings and the fiasco with the face importing. Simply put: the product itself was pretty much just one big insult in physical form. It's no wonder people have reacted as they have.

[hoorayforicecream]

Isichar wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

One of the facts in this matter is, John, that when so many promises were broken and so many so-called claims were out and out lies, it's just hard to believe much of what the Mass Effect team say. At all. Especially when they do things like post claims that they, "are listening" and then follow-up with news to the contrary, advertise ME3 by twisting quotes about its ending to make it sound like a positive thing, and release a "fix" to the face import bug that doesn't even work and then lie about the nature of it and ignore the fact that it's still broken.

It's like every single week on these forums there's a new lie from BioWare and a new example of them showing they just don't care and overall treat their fans with disdain.

So while there may be rude people out there who say some very nasty things because they're very angry, I personally don't blame them at all given how BioWare and the Mass Effect team are handling things.

I said it before ill say it again. Im interested in what form they are listening. Is someone from bioware payed to just take notes on the things talked about around the forums and such?

Community managers like Chris Priestley and Stephen Reid do that, along with moderate the forums and manage community relations through other channels. Most community managers will send feedback reports to the developers, flagging specific topics of interest. It's not done in a 'we had X reports about issue Y' type deal, but more of a 'these issues seemed important this week' type thing.

It's also important to note that "listen" is not the same as "do what you say". I'm reminded of a quote from Dr. Greg Zeschuk, taken from an interview back in 2010.

What you don't listen to is the loud internet commentary. The loudest
voice is probably not the one you listen to. You listen to the person
who put a lot of thought into it, who went out of their way to provide
feedback.