339 réponses à ce sujet

[Tirranek]

Oransel wrote...

Fan flame reaction is an answer to ME team completely ignoring us. The more Bioware will stay silent and hidden, the worse outcome the whole situation will have. All they need is one thread, one post with simple words: "We were wrong. We are sorry. We will fix everything". That's it for me to stop any flame immediately. But they are silent, refusing to admit their mistake, also trolling us.

Except that would barely solve anything. 'We were wrong.' would be the new springboard for people saying they shipped them a broken product, and 'we'll fix everything' will be the new banner held up when someone is disgruntled that there weren't enough scenes involving Tali girating to some moving piano music.

[Shaoken]

Saying they were wrong would also lower EA's stock prices, which EA would never abide. Can't bite the hand that feeds after all.

I also doubt that Bioware is "trolling" us. We've had Weekes be very nice and communicative with fans in person and over twitter, along with Jessica and a few others.

Really what it boils down to is that the ME team saying anything in here would only make things worse; you'll have the jerks insult them to high hell (if the DA team is getting death threats and horrific insults, what would the ME Team be getting?), then you'll have the people who will pick apart their sentances word by word trying to find some sort of veiled insult or endorsement of their ideas, who will then spread this information and make people more pissed off.

Besides, what good would it be to have them talking to us? Most of us want to know the answers, and that's what the EC is for. So it'd just be them saying "We're working on the EC and we can't say what's going to be in it before it's finalised and ready to download" over and over again with people saying "WHY can't you tell us?"

[Cirreus]

Hey one for the DA mods !

Dragon Age 2 Video - Cave Simulator

[TGOW]

John Epler wrote...

ohupthis wrote...

There is no ME team, this was all contrived thru E/A and their marketting cronies.

So ME sprung into the world, fully formed? Like a videogame equivalent of Athena?

That's certainly an interesting theory.

Still has less plot holes than ME3s ending.

However what Allan was saying about the elcor mission, I felt like the entire thing was leading up to some king of ground mission too. Even when I finally got to the homeworld I felt I had somehow bugged the game as there was nothing for me there. I ended up wasting a good half an hour searching for a place to land/ summoning the reapers by scanning etc etc to no avail. Eventually I went online to the wiki searching for answers and found that actually I had already done the quest simply by being near the planet and was told to go home to the citadel. Suffice to say that should not have happened in a well designed game, let alone a AAA developed one. I feel like the writers really dropped the ball on that one.

[Oransel]

Besides, what good would it be to have them talking to us? Most of us want to know the answers, and that's what the EC is for. So it'd just be them saying "We're working on the EC and we can't say what's going to be in it before it's finalised and ready to download" over and over again with people saying "WHY can't you tell us?"

Nope. Most of us do not want answers, they want completely rewritten ending.

[TGOW]

6

Cirreus wrote...

Hey one for the DA mods !

Dragon Age 2 Video - Cave Simulator

At some point this man must be hired.

[Federally]

I don't want answer or a rewritten ending. I want a new developer, who isn't owned by a mega publisher, that is making story driven Rpgs because its their passion. Kind of like BioWare used too.

[Alexius]

Daedalus1773 wrote...

LOL yay google. Funny stuff (altho probably not as funny for you at the time I guess .

http://knowyourmeme....man-giraffe-dog 

Oh, goodness... The moar you know, huh? I learn something useless yet hilarious everyday.

On topic: My take is that if someone from the ME team ventured here, they'd be torn to pieces by some people. Even if most replies were civil, there's always someone who just has to be obnoxious. They can't help it.

So, yeah, that's why we can't have nice things.

[Terror_K]

Shaoken wrote...

I also doubt that Bioware is "trolling" us. We've had Weekes be very nice and communicative with fans in person and over twitter, along with Jessica and a few others.

While I appreciated what Weekes did and what he had to say, it actually did more harm than good for me personally. Not because of Weekes himself per se, but more because he actually revealed an even greater depth to the promises BioWare gave us that were just lies and that they pretty much knew them as being lies from the beginning. The one that sticks out to me the most is the fact that he said that our choices were pretty much never going to matter because they went in with a philosophy that was counter-intuitive to such claims, which is why almost every decision in the prior two games just got completely railroaded in ME3.

[sth88]

I just saw Mr. Gamble squash a rumor on another thread.

I really appreciated this, even if he wasn't giving us a whole lot of info on what is going on behind the scenes.  It is encouraging to see someone on the ME team take the time to give us a small update and (at least temporarily) quell some of our fears.  The community is desperate for answers, and it's really helpful to see the devs taking the time to give us whatever info they can.

[BattleVisor]

John Epler wrote..

I think, by and large, there's a little bit of lawlessness in the forums right now, and that's as a result of emotions running high on both sides of the fence (neither the pro-ending nor the anti-ending group has a lock on insults and vitriol). I'm hoping that clarifying that issues are most quickly resolved when reported directly to a Moderator will help. Beyond that, we'll see.

a pro-ending group.. I dont believe it exists. 

[E-Type XR]

Despite his position at BioWare, I honestly just see Allan as a fan with a fancy badge. While his words have more credence, due to his standing, if he were just a normal person he would still have great contributions to any thread.

[Darth Evil]

Opsrbest wrote...

Isichar wrote...

Dridengx wrote...

Well. Last time ME team was here you guys slandered them, threatened them, and trolled them. They left. your fault. Just because they don't post doesn't mean they are not receiving or hearing feedback. Course it could be all PR and damage control. you will never know because you lacked the maturity to respect them and have conversations with them. now you are being ignored by the people who you are whining to want to hear from.

So the fans been treated like whiney children are acting like it? Jeeze funny how that works huh? Lack of respect will only cause the same response.

Ftr i did not flame anyone from the ME team and iv been on these forums since a couple days after the release. Your a fan too and if you think your above what your saying your not because your willing to look at everyone with that same attitude regardless of whether they did flame a bioware employee or not.

You make all fans look bad, yourself included because you group everyone together and judge them based on the worst reactions.

While you have a point. Name one game development company that talks to its users when 95% of them just want to yell at them and tell them how they are wrong. And really there is only one company that does just that.

Maybe the Bioware staff responsible for the mess should put their big boy pants on and talk to their customers who are righteously pissed off.

[Jeb231]

Nothing they could say right now would be of any help and simply fuel more misinterpretation and rage. It's in the best interest of everybody for them not to talk at least until they have something to show for.

[Darth Evil]

mirage2154 wrote...

John Epler wrote...

mirage2154 wrote...

Better loss one hand than both hands, If ME is dead, atleast they can save DA. The time to get so Reputation for DA3 team so people could pre-order the game. They just playing with your emotion guys! It's sickening!

If that's how you feel, there's not much I can say about it. But if this were true - why are they using a fairly junior developer to do so? Wouldn't it be far more effective to take someone senior and have them do what I'm doing? The only thing I do that differentiates me from a number of other people on the team is that I'm rather more vocal on the forums.

I mean, you're entitled to your opinion, but when you see a conspiracy in everything there's really not much I can say to change your mind.

I think I have to apollogize for my opnion. I have lost myself in negative emotion toward whole BW team, and I have admint that non of my opnion is base on facts. I think whatever the truth is, the people who make the game knows it better, for good or for ill. The only person we all have to face is ourself there's no escapse from it. Thank of showing the uglyside of myself.

Why are you apologising for your opinion? You payed for the bloody game which means you are a CUSTOMER! You matter, not Bioware's opinion of you (its the reverse). See some people get paid good money to handle customers. Some people get paid good money to write aweful, incoherent, third rate, copout garbage as well. These people all have to answer to us, the customers. Sure we could be civil and act like adults. But hey, if we were adults we wouldnt be wasting our time playing video games. We would be striving to achieve self-improvement. But we all need catharsis right? Anyways, when people take away from my catharsis after lying about how it was supposed to go down (the ending) then that pisses me off.
And if it feels good to rant or talk like a jerk then go ahead. These people get payed more than you. Stop worrying so much, they arent made of glass.

[Darth Evil]

Jeb231 wrote...

Nothing they could say right now would be of any help and simply fuel more misinterpretation and rage. It's in the best interest of everybody for them not to talk at least until they have something to show for.

First rule of customer relations when the customer is pissed, try to empathize.

They could try and empathize with the fanbase

[Darth Evil]

Modifié par Darth Evil, 18 avril 2012 - 06:39 .

[Allan Schumacher]

E-Type XR wrote...

Despite his position at BioWare, I honestly just see Allan as a fan with a fancy badge. While his words have more credence, due to his standing, if he were just a normal person he would still have great contributions to any thread.

Thanks! 

While I won't dispute that the BioWare tag will make me a target for some posters, I won't dispute that I have probably been able to have more interesting discussions with other fans because of it.  So I take the bad with the good.

[Sean]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

E-Type XR wrote...

Despite his position at BioWare, I honestly just see Allan as a fan with a fancy badge. While his words have more credence, due to his standing, if he were just a normal person he would still have great contributions to any thread.

Thanks! 

While I won't dispute that the BioWare tag will make me a target for some posters, I won't dispute that I have probably been able to have more interesting discussions with other fans because of it.  So I take the bad with the good.

Is there, by any chance, that  you could share this topic with some people (and possibly participate?) because I think this could lead to helping a lot of people.

Modifié par RX_Sean_XI, 18 avril 2012 - 07:00 .

[JaylaClark]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

E-Type XR wrote...

Despite his position at BioWare, I honestly just see Allan as a fan with a fancy badge. While his words have more credence, due to his standing, if he were just a normal person he would still have great contributions to any thread.

Thanks! 

While I won't dispute that the BioWare tag will make me a target for some posters, I won't dispute that I have probably been able to have more interesting discussions with other fans because of it.  So I take the bad with the good.

For which we appreciate it. I'm going to say it again, we're kind of rabid at the moment. If not outright desperate, as in the literal version 'frightened and in need of help'. (I'm in some groups that are equating this to... well, Westwood and Origin. And some of those posters are resigned to the 'fact' that it's happening again. I'm a bit more optimistic than that, tell you the truth, but I can't argue very well with them.)

This is the company that ... okay, I had no clue what Dragon Age was going to be about. I'd had three experiences with Bioware's work to date and one of them was, well, kind of negative (I couldn't get going on Jade Empire to save my life; that and the fact that D2D -- now Gamefly -- had it for $40 well after the game's release, didn't leave a good taste in my mouth). But purely on the basis of KotOR and Mass Effect, I pre-ordered Dragon Age Origins. And what do you know, I loved it to death. I even went back and bought NWN... except that I 'missed' and got NWN2. (Obsidian eventually hit their stride. Sometime after they made this game. /aside)

Then things started to get... I'm going to say 'odd'. Mass Effect 2 required a very carefully nuanced playthrough to make story sense, especially to Liarasexuals ... but the action, once I got the hang of it, was amazing. And Lair is the best DLC ever made. No dispute possible.

Dragon Age 2, on the other hand... the action and level design were way too simplistic, and the story purely had the illusion of meaningful choice. The ending is the ending, probably hamstrung by the framing device. But the characters are quite possibly my favorite characters in all of fiction. Definitely up there. Izzy, Merrill, Varric, Aveline, Anders... all well written, all having their own arc, all actually drawing me into the story. Actually, it's only Bioware's reputation that kills the story itself, and it's the reputation for making things matter.

Mass Effect 3... oh dear lord. My playthrough has stalled at 29 hours and 30 minutes with Priority Earth the final mission because I don't want to put Alyna through what I've already seen. Kill her (or at least kill her body, but I don't know if I want to give her the apparent immortality that Blue seems to suggest), or kill the geth and EDI? And I'm not taking Green because it's impossible to make it fit in this universe in my mind. ("OH AND ANDROIDS DON'T HAVE DNA" might become my sig!) I might be able to work around this if they rewrite the Guardian's dialogue, though. But it does scare me how little we've heard, and how EA is trying to spin the controversy as a good thing, because ... I never got into Sopranos and I never will because of the ending. I never got into Lost very well and I never will because of the ending. I never got into My Immortal and I never will because... I had a concussion, took a long while to recover, and I need to save those brain cells. But also because of the ending. People don't want to get involved in something that will let them down, and we need people assuring them that it's not the case. Like us, the hardcore fans, who can't honestly tell their friends that this will be the case.

I'm not making any judgments about Dragon Age 3, though, and guess what? I'll probably buy it if my friends give the thumbs-up. I may be in the minority... and I may have to do research and buy it myself first because everyone else is sticking with 'sorry, BiowEAre, you strung us along for 89 hours and shot us in the gut at the end, I'm not falling for that again'. I just hope EA doesn't go panic and hasten the end, because if EA butts in, I have no idea what service Bioware is going to provide the name of in four or five years' time, but it's way too likely to happen.

[Bronze65]

I agree with John. I wouldn't post here either. Too much anger, and the words would get picked apart, letter by letter, taken out of context and blown sky high.

[Alamar2078]

John Epler wrote...

And, of course, I am a sucker for the community. I weathered the post-DA2 forum storm, living through Mangiraffedog. My skin is appropriately thick.

Wow I forgot all about MGD [ManGiraffeDog]!!

I wonder if some of the "PR suits" don't understand that often a lack of information may inflame things more than having full information would???

I remember beating on Mr. Gaider petty visciously during the DA:2 storm.  I however grew to respect that he had the guts to shoot straight with us.  Honestly I think Mr. Gaider and the other DA:2 team's handling of the storm there is what eventually tipped the balance and made me think I should give ME3 a chance instead of walking away.

Now though there is no Mr. Gaider that is letting us know what the heck is going on.  Now I don't have that "counter weight" to balance the arguement or keep me as a customer ....

[Torrible]

BattleVisor wrote...

John Epler wrote..

I think, by and large, there's a little bit of lawlessness in the forums right now, and that's as a result of emotions running high on both sides of the fence (neither the pro-ending nor the anti-ending group has a lock on insults and vitriol). I'm hoping that clarifying that issues are most quickly resolved when reported directly to a Moderator will help. Beyond that, we'll see.

a pro-ending group.. I dont believe it exists. 

There's definitely a pro-patience and anti-petulance group though. 

[Sc2mashimaro]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

RX_Sean_XI wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

My initial thoughts on the "fetch quests" was "neat, a different way to acquire a quest" based on how they were typically acquired by eavesdropping on a conversation.  In that sense, I didn't really mind them.  It seemed like an iterative thing to do with how they were in DA2, and maybe would provide a little bit more engagement to this type of content.

In this sense, I thought that they were an improvement over DA2 in that the quest had a more definitive intro and conclusion, even with some interesting dialogue such as with the Elcor Ambassador ()

The quests themselves are just something that I would do if it was along the path of another quest.  So in that sense I didn't find them particularly engaging.  By the time I reached Horizon I stopped doing them which I think is a fault.  In some cases, such as the one with the Elcor Ambassador, it was a bit jarring because I was hoping to land and see them, which I think makes the limitations of the light quests more apparent. 

Had they not existed at all, I probably wouldn't have had the conversation with the Elcor Ambassador which I did enjoy, so I don't think they're entirely bad.  I think they're improved upon over DA2, so maybe there are ways to make them a bit interesting.  A big advantage of them is that they're lower cost which means if we can make them interesting, the idea of adding additional, interesting content is always appealing.


So basically diplomatic dev speak that doesn't actually say anything. 

I see where you are coming from on it.
The only one that was interesting in ME3 was the elcor one, but I would have liked to see one of the "tank elcors" in a mission.

I still think they were done better in DA2 but I think that is because of actually being able to see the area they were in.

I think that just might be an advantage that DA2 would have as it's always on the ground, but it's a fair point.  In the case of DA2 they added a bit by providing some reward for exploration, whereas in ME3 we get some extra dialogue (that's context sensitive, rather than DA2's which seemed to be reused a lot).  The Elcor one was by far the most interesting because it had a genuine conversation, which is maybe one way that we should consider approaching these.  I think the light quests are more interesting when you have a context for understanding why you are doing it, and a direct conversation is more direct player engagment.


(I just watched the Elcor Ambassador clip again, and I kinda just wanted to let the poor guy know he didn't need to preface his lines with the context... even for an Elcor I could hear the sadness and desperation in his voice )

This might be a million pages back by now, but ONE way to make it more interesting might be to make most of them simple "fetch" quests, but take a handful and make them quests that look like they're just another fetch quest that instead leads to a situation that escalates into a full blown encounter and/or has some kind of additional rewards for the player completing it. It's okay if it is somewhat tangental, because it's the situation created by attempting to complete a routine "fetch" that leads to the encounter. Because it wouldn't be every single encounter, you can still save on development costs and it still breaks up the regular gameplay while creating a sense of reward that encourages players to keep doing them.

[MarauderESP]

John Epler wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

John Epler wrote...

Mangiraffedog.

Thanks for the flashbacks John. I'll just leave this here.

You are literally the worst person on these forums right now.

oh dear......... im having nightmares AGAIN!!!!!!!