339 réponses à ce sujet

[Mystiq6]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

John Epler wrote...

I have a bottle of work scotch. Many of them, I imagine, do not.

More seriously, though - we can post without worrying about committing to anything, or inadvertently saying things we aren't supposed to about the ME series. I know slightly more about their plans than the people here, but only slightly - otherwise, I have my head in Dragon Age all day.

And, of course, I am a sucker for the community. I weathered the post-DA2 forum storm, living through Mangiraffedog. My skin is appropriately thick.

You were significantly braver than I!  I paid my dues in Tech Support forums and then paid my psychiatrist even more! >.>

Note:  Not technically a mod of this forum!

I've been on this side of it so long that I think if I was suddenly put in you guys' position I would take a minute to look at a flame and go "lol this guy's dumb -- but I've totally been there" and then respond calmly to him/her.

Some people really lose their heads. You need look no further than the Diablo 3 Beta forums. Everyone thinks they're an expert game designer. It's kinda sickening.

[TJX2045]

Thornquist wrote...

John Epler wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

John Epler wrote...

Mangiraffedog.

Thanks for the flashbacks John. I'll just leave this here.

You are literally the worst person on these forums right now.

Sorry, to laugh at your expense John - but in hindsight, that whole debacle is quite hilarious to read about. As is your comment

So if there is a mangiraffedog, and this IS a part of the ME3 forums...


Does that mean that there are asarigiraffedogs?  

And I'm guessing mangiraffedog threw out every insult and troll flamebait found in the book and then some?

[TJX2045]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

John Epler wrote...

I have a bottle of work scotch. Many of them, I imagine, do not.

More seriously, though - we can post without worrying about committing to anything, or inadvertently saying things we aren't supposed to about the ME series. I know slightly more about their plans than the people here, but only slightly - otherwise, I have my head in Dragon Age all day.

And, of course, I am a sucker for the community. I weathered the post-DA2 forum storm, living through Mangiraffedog. My skin is appropriately thick.

You were significantly braver than I!  I paid my dues in Tech Support forums and then paid my psychiatrist even more! >.>

Note:  Not technically a mod of this forum!

Let me just say that I am among the people who actually liked the ending to DA2.  Anders really made me mad and I wish it played out differently based on your friendship/rivalry/romance but I liked the end game, and was kinda disappointed that there would be no expansion for DA2.  <-- *Sad geek face*

Modifié par TJX2045, 18 avril 2012 - 02:11 .

[Dr. Megaverse]

Nightwriter wrote...

Can you think of any reason why they would want to expose themselves to the vitriol? They respond to fans on twitter frequently enough because the character limit keeps the question-and-answer dynamic fairly controlled. Exposing themselves to the nastiness that can rage on the BSN is another matter.

So by your logic they are afraid of us?  Keep up the good work then...

[Vormaerin]

Dr. Megaverse wrote...

So by your logic they are afraid of us?  Keep up the good work then...

Because success by the Retake Movement can totally be tallied by the absence of any future dev communication.  That's pure Win!

[Dr. Megaverse]

Vormaerin wrote...

Dr. Megaverse wrote...

So by your logic they are afraid of us?  Keep up the good work then...

Because success by the Retake Movement can totally be tallied by the absence of any future dev communication.  That's pure Win!

What a witty reply....

<_<

[EvilChani]

Darth Spike wrote...

I think the reason is because they can talk to us calmly. The ME people are too afraid of getting flamed so the DA people have to answer the questions for them. A good majority of us don't want to flame them. We just want answers and not PR bullcrap.

And it would help if the PR bullcrap wasn't, "We're awesome, you're stupid if you don't like our art, but we suppose we'll do a clarification DLC for you sense you're too stupid to understand our greatness. After all, we never promised a game that fit well with the other two! Instead, we gave you art!!"  

[SirBob1613]

there busy swimming in the money we gave to them

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Hey, hey John and/or Allen? Can you go snatch someone from the ME team, have them sit down in front of a computer and make them have a civil Q & A with us ME fans? =D

[EvilChani]

TJX2045 wrote...

Allan Schumacher wrote...

John Epler wrote...

I have a bottle of work scotch. Many of them, I imagine, do not.

More seriously, though - we can post without worrying about committing to anything, or inadvertently saying things we aren't supposed to about the ME series. I know slightly more about their plans than the people here, but only slightly - otherwise, I have my head in Dragon Age all day.

And, of course, I am a sucker for the community. I weathered the post-DA2 forum storm, living through Mangiraffedog. My skin is appropriately thick.

You were significantly braver than I!  I paid my dues in Tech Support forums and then paid my psychiatrist even more! >.>

Note:  Not technically a mod of this forum!

Let me just say that I am among the people who actually liked the ending to DA2.  Anders really made me mad and I wish it played out differently based on your friendship/rivalry/romance but I liked the end game, and was kinda disappointed that there would be no expansion for DA2.  <-- *Sad geek face*

You just hit on my only problem with the ending - that Anders' actions did not change even if you were romantically involved with him (or even just best friends). I understood why he did it, as insane as it was, but if nothing else, a romantic relationship with him should have given a different result (for a positive relationship, I mean). That is probably the only part I'd have changed about the ending of DA2. Otherwise, I liked the game. And replayed it several times. I would like to tell the DA team, however, to lay off with the killing of the main character's parents. You've done it two games in a row...it's becoming cliche. A bad cliche.  

[John Epler]

EvilChani wrote...

You just hit on my only problem with the ending - that Anders' actions did not change even if you were romantically involved with him (or even just best friends). I understood why he did it, as insane as it was, but if nothing else, a romantic relationship with him should have given a different result (for a positive relationship, I mean). That is probably the only part I'd have changed about the ending of DA2. Otherwise, I liked the game. And replayed it several times. I would like to tell the DA team, however, to lay off with the killing of the main character's parents. You've done it two games in a row...it's becoming cliche. A bad cliche.  

In our next game, we'll kill off the main character and make you play their parents. Both of 'em. At the same time.

But we're getting a little off-topic here!

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

John Epler wrote...

EvilChani wrote...

You just hit on my only problem with the ending - that Anders' actions did not change even if you were romantically involved with him (or even just best friends). I understood why he did it, as insane as it was, but if nothing else, a romantic relationship with him should have given a different result (for a positive relationship, I mean). That is probably the only part I'd have changed about the ending of DA2. Otherwise, I liked the game. And replayed it several times. I would like to tell the DA team, however, to lay off with the killing of the main character's parents. You've done it two games in a row...it's becoming cliche. A bad cliche.  

In our next game, we'll kill off the main character and make you play their parents. Both of 'em. At the same time.

But we're getting a little off-topic here!

You should make the main character the warden's dog.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[EvilChani]

John Epler wrote...

EvilChani wrote...

You just hit on my only problem with the ending - that Anders' actions did not change even if you were romantically involved with him (or even just best friends). I understood why he did it, as insane as it was, but if nothing else, a romantic relationship with him should have given a different result (for a positive relationship, I mean). That is probably the only part I'd have changed about the ending of DA2. Otherwise, I liked the game. And replayed it several times. I would like to tell the DA team, however, to lay off with the killing of the main character's parents. You've done it two games in a row...it's becoming cliche. A bad cliche.  

In our next game, we'll kill off the main character and make you play their parents. Both of 'em. At the same time.

But we're getting a little off-topic here!

You're evil and you suck.    (kidding, in case the smiley didn't get that across!!)

[Riion]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

John Epler wrote...

EvilChani wrote...

You just hit on my only problem with the ending - that Anders' actions did not change even if you were romantically involved with him (or even just best friends). I understood why he did it, as insane as it was, but if nothing else, a romantic relationship with him should have given a different result (for a positive relationship, I mean). That is probably the only part I'd have changed about the ending of DA2. Otherwise, I liked the game. And replayed it several times. I would like to tell the DA team, however, to lay off with the killing of the main character's parents. You've done it two games in a row...it's becoming cliche. A bad cliche.  

In our next game, we'll kill off the main character and make you play their parents. Both of 'em. At the same time.

But we're getting a little off-topic here!

You should make the main character the warden's mangiraffedog.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

Fixed. 

[devSin]

TJX2045 wrote...

Let me just say that I am among the people who actually liked the ending to DA2.  Anders really made me mad and I wish it played out differently based on your friendship/rivalry/romance but I liked the end game, and was kinda disappointed that there would be no expansion for DA2.

DA2 didn't bother me that much either. But I still wanted to get the end of Hawke's story, and I'm sad that now we won't.

That's probably why Allan is here. He wasted the last year doing stupid QA for a stupid expansion that they were going to stupid cancel, and now he has to sit around and wait until they decide what DA3 is going to be. Mark and Mike are buttfaces.

[John Epler]

EvilChani wrote...

Darth Spike wrote...

I think the reason is because they can talk to us calmly. The ME people are too afraid of getting flamed so the DA people have to answer the questions for them. A good majority of us don't want to flame them. We just want answers and not PR bullcrap.

And it would help if the PR bullcrap wasn't, "We're awesome, you're stupid if you don't like our art, but we suppose we'll do a clarification DLC for you sense you're too stupid to understand our greatness. After all, we never promised a game that fit well with the other two! Instead, we gave you art!!"  

And I think, unfortunately, this is part of the problem. None of this is intended by the statements that have been made. No one thinks that you're stupid if you don't like the ending. There's a mentality of us vs them that's become rather prevalent, and here's the thing - everyone believes that they're a part of 'us', because who wants to be a part of 'them'? 

The thing is, if I were on the ME team, I doubt I'd be posting here. Not because I don't appreciate and care about our fanbase, but because whatever gets posted is going to be torn apart, and hostility found where none is meant. And interacting with the community has, by and large, always been a voluntary thing. There's nowhere in my job description that says 'MUST INTERACT WITH FANS'. Lots of stuff about design-related responsibilities, but I do the community stuff because, hey, I enjoy it, and I apparently have a healthy masochistic streak 

Anyways. Most of you remain civil and polite, and I very much appreciate it. Keep it up!

[DarthSyphilis59]

Allan Schumacher is my bro. I'm glad he's here.

Modifié par DarthSyphilis59, 18 avril 2012 - 03:38 .

[indyracing]

John Epler wrote...

EvilChani wrote...

You just hit on my only problem with the ending - that Anders' actions did not change even if you were romantically involved with him (or even just best friends). I understood why he did it, as insane as it was, but if nothing else, a romantic relationship with him should have given a different result (for a positive relationship, I mean). That is probably the only part I'd have changed about the ending of DA2. Otherwise, I liked the game. And replayed it several times. I would like to tell the DA team, however, to lay off with the killing of the main character's parents. You've done it two games in a row...it's becoming cliche. A bad cliche.  

In our next game, we'll kill off the main character and make you play their parents. Both of 'em. At the same time.

But we're getting a little off-topic here!

As long as the story leading up to it makes sense, I see no problem with that.

[Nisiar]

I liked DA2 in its own way. It wasn't DA:O but it had its moments.
One of my favorite scenes was when Meredith get introduced after she beheads that mage and says "I'm Knight-Commander Meredith" and that's all she needed to say because you KNEW then she was a badass. She was a great villain I thought, she wasn't hypocritical and truly believed her extreme actions were for the best. I kind of even wish we didn't have that whole corruption angle because it made it look like magic made her go bad, not really her fervent fear of magic.

Can't wait for DA3.

Anyway... leave Allan alone! I agree they're just posting as fans.

[Isichar]

John Epler wrote...

EvilChani wrote...

Darth Spike wrote...

I think the reason is because they can talk to us calmly. The ME people are too afraid of getting flamed so the DA people have to answer the questions for them. A good majority of us don't want to flame them. We just want answers and not PR bullcrap.

And it would help if the PR bullcrap wasn't, "We're awesome, you're stupid if you don't like our art, but we suppose we'll do a clarification DLC for you sense you're too stupid to understand our greatness. After all, we never promised a game that fit well with the other two! Instead, we gave you art!!"  

And I think, unfortunately, this is part of the problem. None of this is intended by the statements that have been made. No one thinks that you're stupid if you don't like the ending. There's a mentality of us vs them that's become rather prevalent, and here's the thing - everyone believes that they're a part of 'us', because who wants to be a part of 'them'? 

The thing is, if I were on the ME team, I doubt I'd be posting here. Not because I don't appreciate and care about our fanbase, but because whatever gets posted is going to be torn apart, and hostility found where none is meant. And interacting with the community has, by and large, always been a voluntary thing. There's nowhere in my job description that says 'MUST INTERACT WITH FANS'. Lots of stuff about design-related responsibilities, but I do the community stuff because, hey, I enjoy it, and I apparently have a healthy masochistic streak 

Anyways. Most of you remain civil and polite, and I very much appreciate it. Keep it up!

I hope they at least actually read some of the threads though even if they choose not to reply to anything. Theres really been some great ones worth reading that they could really alot learn from.

I would be interested to hear what the people on the team actually think about some of the ideas and theorys listed. I doubt we really get to hear tons of opinions through the ME team that does not go through the PR process. Couple of the writers have pretty much gone off the grid completely.

[Isichar]

DarthSyphilis59 wrote...

Allan Schumacher is my bro. I'm glad he's here.

Hes a pretty nice guy. Too bad he has a nasty unintended habit of derailing a thread

[Icinix]

Jokes: Because the DA crew is enjoying not being the bad guys this time around.

Seriousness though, I imagine a lot of the dev team have taken a break, or are just getting busy with the next lot of stuff. Also its probably going to be hard to work further on DLC and bits and pieces for ME3 when all you see is posts reminding you that the ball was dropped majorly.

[shnellegaming]

John Epler wrote...

I think the general sentiment is still borne out of a dedicated fanbase. I've maintained, since the game shipped, that the majority of people who are looking for a different ending are civil and respectful, and speak because they care passionately about the product as a whole (as well as, in many cases, the company behind it). There are still numerous people on these forums who are able to articulate their sentiment regarding the ending in a rational and civil fashion, and I thank them for that - not to mention that I imagine it helps your case.

That being said, there's a vocal minority who started with vitriol and bile and continues down that path. That's their prerogative, certainly, but it's neither conducive to a forum environment where people are able to have discussions, nor does it help their cause. And, again, full credit to the community - I've seen many 'anti enders' taking them to task on their behaviour. And, to be fair - there are those who've taken this whole situation as an invitation to engage in flaming the 'anti-ending' crowd, because they feel they're immune to prosecution by the moderating staff. Which, if I'm not getting PMs, ends up being something of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I think, by and large, there's a little bit of lawlessness in the forums right now, and that's as a result of emotions running high on both sides of the fence (neither the pro-ending nor the anti-ending group has a lock on insults and vitriol). I'm hoping that clarifying that issues are most quickly resolved when reported directly to a Moderator will help. Beyond that, we'll see.

Thanks.  Wish more people would make the distinction between dedicated fanbase who loves the series and doesn't want to see it go downhill and the flaming/trolling crowd. 

[Blind2Society]

John Epler wrote...
 There's a mentality of us vs them that's become rather prevalent

The thing is, if I were on the ME team, I doubt I'd be posting here. Not because I don't appreciate and care about our fanbase, but because whatever gets posted is going to be torn apart, and hostility found where none is meant.

This is because there is a disconnect between the fan base and the devs which can be very detrimental to civilized discussion and making a game that your fans will love and this is evident in things like the Tali and ending debacles. This a due, in no small part, to the lack of them coming here and chatting with us. If they had been doing so since the beginning this simply wouldn't be the case.

The more you talk with someone the more you understand them and the less likely it is that a conversation will break down into something less pleasant. We don't know or understand any of the ME devs because we never talk to them. They are magical people you never see and all you ever hear from them is bull**** statements written by some higher up. We never get to know their personal opinions, feelings or in what way they tend to share those things. Again, because of this there is a disconnect that doesn't allow for civilized conversation (in most cases) where each of us understands each other.

The shame of this is it all could have been avoided had there been a line in the job description that says you must interact with the community. It damn well should be an obligation as it will help to make better games and eliminate the disconnect. You yourself are an example of this. You come here and talk to us and because of this we get to know each other a bit and can have these conversations.

[indyracing]

John Epler wrote...

And I think, unfortunately, this is part of the problem. None of this is intended by the statements that have been made. No one thinks that you're stupid if you don't like the ending. There's a mentality of us vs them that's become rather prevalent, and here's the thing - everyone believes that they're a part of 'us', because who wants to be a part of 'them'? 

The thing is, if I were on the ME team, I doubt I'd be posting here. Not because I don't appreciate and care about our fanbase, but because whatever gets posted is going to be torn apart, and hostility found where none is meant. And interacting with the community has, by and large, always been a voluntary thing. There's nowhere in my job description that says 'MUST INTERACT WITH FANS'. Lots of stuff about design-related responsibilities, but I do the community stuff because, hey, I enjoy it, and I apparently have a healthy masochistic streak 

Anyways. Most of you remain civil and polite, and I very much appreciate it. Keep it up!

That's sad to hear.

I understand why it's the case, but it's still sad.

The reason I think it's sad is because what little DOES get posted from someone connected to Mass Effect specifically comes off as false.  It's clear that it's carefully scrutinized by someone from PR, and my experience (from well before the Mass Effect pre-release quotes) is that anything coming from, or scrutinized by, PR is, on at least some level, always dishonest.  Not always a lie, in fact hardly ever a lie, but always twists the truth at least slightly to favor whatever company the PR person works for.  You can see this with the pretty obvious honest personal tweets that are always removed quickly.  What that person says is pretty obviously the truth as they see it, but then someone from PR decides it may end up making the company look bad, and it's removed.

I contend (and I'm sure it's because I'm jaded with regards to PR over the years, and I'm positive I'm not in any sort of tiny minority, but a rather substantial minority, if not the majority in that regard) is that the fact that the only thing coming from any Mass Effect-specific person at Bioware is either from PR or has been scrubbed by PR is actually doing Bioware's reputation harm.  More harm than any truth would do (barring something extremely abhorrent).

It makes me feel like no one at Bioware cares.

Even though I logically know that has to be false, there's very little evidence that it actually is false.

On a personal level, for me, Bioware was the ONE gaming company I implicitly trusted.  I trusted so much so that when I new game came out bought it no questions asked - I don't trust professional reviewers, so I don't ever read those anyway - I listen to actual gamers for opinions if I'm looking for them before I buy a game.  You can check my thread history and see the thread I started about DA 2 if you want - the title is shockingly similar to the one I started about Mass Effect 3 - but the content is drastically different.

But back to my point.  Bioware was the one company I implicitly trusted to always "write a good story".  So much so that I own every piece of software you guys have produced (barring a few armor and weapon DLCs from Mass Effect - but every story piece) for every game since Baldur's Gate, including all expansions.  I bought them on or very shortly after release date, even if I had no intention of playing for months.  Bioware simply never failed to deliver.

For me, Mass Effect 3 destroyed that trust, and that implicit trust can never be re-earned.  Your guys' next game may be great, but I will never be able to assume it's so, because I got burned badly with Mass Effect 3.  As a long-time gamer - who's hobbies are reading, jogging and gaming, the reality is that the ONE company I could trust to always deliver a good if not great story failed to deliver (in about as bad a way as I can imagine, without doing it intentionally) on arguably their best, to that point, story (Baldur's Gate 2 has a say in this).

The fact that nothing that feels honest (not saying they are lies, but everything is definitely PR scrubbed and "safe") has come from the Mass Effect team since it's release is only helping to erode that trust what little more it can be eroded (or prevent it from recovering).

That may seem all melodramatic, but as my favorite hobby (since the C64 days and Bard's Tale), gaming is my main entertainment (unless I'm in a reading period).  And you guys were the best at making the kind of games I love, until now, and I get the impression that no one REALLY thinks there's anything subpar about ME 3, and that the free DLC and the "we're listening" threads are just appeasement, and therefore it feels disingenous, which angers me even more.

Again, I understand why no one from ME comments, but that doesn't change the fact that the lack of comments, for me, is making the situation worse.

And then the cynical, snarky, sarcastic side of me wants to chip in and say "well they already have my money anyway, so I don't really matter."