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#51
CptData

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Portia Cousland wrote...

CptData wrote...

Actually, I liked the conflict, although it kinda grew old towards the end.
What irks me more is the lack of content once the VS is back on the Normandy. Seriously ... why that?


I agree with you on the VS return to the Normandy. OMG I was so pissed. They sidelined them for most of the game only to have very little interaction until the romance scene. I was so looking forward to catching up with Kaidan/Ash only to have them removed after the FIRST mission. I really couldn't believe it.


Especially since both VS have a lot of stuff to tell:
- What did they do in the past two years
- Why the issues with Cerberus (Anderson and Hackett don't have those at all)
- Feelings / how did they cope the death of Shep
- ...
- Catching up
- Friendship (like Garrus' friendship)
- Interaction with the crew
- ...

#52
LadyofRivendell

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ADLegend21 wrote...
I second LadyofRivendell they should have given us the option to leave Tali, the real racist, with the bomb that destroys saren's Geth, she would have been a hero to the quarians to go out like that.


I didn't mean to bash Tali's character or anything, I would literally sacrifice ANY squadmate in Kaidan or Ashley's place. I went in to ME3 with the mindset of "Kill whoever and destroy whatever it takes to keep Kaidan and Shepard alive". Whether it be Tali, Liara, Garrus, or Wrex, I would've left ANY of them on Virmire in order to keep Ashley with me. Same goes for the ME2 and ME3 squad.
Tali makes sense to leave with the bomb, though, she's the tech expert of the ship (Kaidan's good, but Tali knows even more). 

#53
Ferretinabun

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The trouble with both Ashley and Kaidan is their entire personality has to be expressed before Virmire. From Virmire onwards, they share the same dialogues and plot arcs. They are, essentially, the same character. Which is a shame. I would have loved to have seen Ashley's and Kaidan's fates pan out slightly differently, if only in minor ways (such as a significantly different script for each) to suit their personalities.

That said I was sorry to see Ashley go at Virmire. Ashley's okay as a character, but I think she's the less useful companion, combat-wise.

#54
CHALET

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From my main Shepard's in-character perspective I always send Kaidan with the bomb in ME1 just because... well, he is the more technically inclined character of the pair. That and if I wasted time saving Ashley over securing the device after the plan goes down the pan the whole mission could be put at risk.

I liked them both equally, thus mission priorities.

Modifié par CHALET, 18 avril 2012 - 11:02 .


#55
Made Nightwing

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Actually, if you delay doing the Cerberus Bomb mission till after the Cerberus Coup, Ash has extra dialgoue about the past, as well as coming out of the Starboard Observation Deck to stand in front of the memorial.

#56
ADLegend21

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LadyofRivendell wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...
I second LadyofRivendell they should have given us the option to leave Tali, the real racist, with the bomb that destroys saren's Geth, she would have been a hero to the quarians to go out like that.


I didn't mean to bash Tali's character or anything, I would literally sacrifice ANY squadmate in Kaidan or Ashley's place. I went in to ME3 with the mindset of "Kill whoever and destroy whatever it takes to keep Kaidan and Shepard alive". Whether it be Tali, Liara, Garrus, or Wrex, I would've left ANY of them on Virmire in order to keep Ashley with me. Same goes for the ME2 and ME3 squad.
Tali makes sense to leave with the bomb, though, she's the tech expert of the ship (Kaidan's good, but Tali knows even more). 

oh I know, but people, like the person I quoted, are always slandering Ashley saying she's racist when Tali actively wants to kill all the geth and tells you you're bs'ing when you suggest the quarians got what they deserved for trying to genocide them. No one mentions this however, just Ashley having concerns about letting a turian and Krogan poke around the most advanced ship in teh human navy.Image IPB

#57
Jake Boone

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Made Nightwing wrote...

Actually, if you delay doing the Cerberus Bomb mission till after the Cerberus Coup, Ash has extra dialgoue about the past, as well as coming out of the Starboard Observation Deck to stand in front of the memorial.

Wait, I thought the Cereberus Bomb detonates after the Coup, so you can't take the VS.

#58
Ashaman X

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Virmire was an eye opening moment in gaming I feel, as it forced you to make a hard choice with no option of a "happy" ending. Kaidan was my sacrifice every time, and it still hurts my Shep to this day. They were really good friends, but in the end Ash had more to offer and support than Kaidan did. Ash has 3 sisters and a mom to look after.

Also, my Shep not only loves her, but also loves that she will bring up a different point of view in most situations. Being agreed with is nice, but Shep knows that being surrounded by "yes" people will end up in ruin sooner or later. Someone has to ask the hard and ugly questions sometimes.

Apart from that, I find Ash to be highly attractive, and Kimberly Brooks does an amazing job as her VA. I think it was the voice first and foremost that kept me hooked.

Every person will have different views, but my Shep is happy with Ash. That's what counts in the end I think.

#59
Made Nightwing

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Jake Boone wrote...

Made Nightwing wrote...

Actually, if you delay doing the Cerberus Bomb mission till after the Cerberus Coup, Ash has extra dialgoue about the past, as well as coming out of the Starboard Observation Deck to stand in front of the memorial.

Wait, I thought the Cereberus Bomb detonates after the Coup, so you can't take the VS.


Save the Primarch's Son will disappear after the Coup, but if you do it before the Coup, cure the genophage, then do the Coup, then go straight back to Tuchanka and you'll still be able to save the day.

#60
enormousmoonboots

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Kill her to save her from ME3. Worst character assassination I've ever seen.

#61
Shajar

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ADLegend21 wrote...

Shajar wrote...

Ok, so here it comes. I try to be polite in sake of Ashley

Why i like her as character in ME?

- Very realistic, has her opinons and family and all. 

Why Ashley die on Virmine?
- During my very first game play, she shot Wrex, my friend died. So did Ashley!
- Racist
- God fanatic, not that i hate them, but this was too bright
- I did not like her "attitude"

Why Ashley die when Shepard shot her
- She hardly respects Shepard at all even if you were "friend with her" - unlike Wrex, Grunt, Garrus, Tali or Cortez
- She hates Cerberus
- She did not realize that her Spectre status was given only because Udina knew she was "loser/failure". to Blind her with Honor she dont have

It felt very cool to get option to shoot her 

Why did Ashley survive and got spot in squad ME3?
- There is a bug that you cant hear Ken, Gabby and Tali quotes without having her as friend

Why did Ashley did not get spot in squad ME3?
- I made a mistake and left her alive
- I need war asset

LadyofRivendell wrote...

I'm forced to leave her on Virmire every playthrough because I haven't yet found a way to throw Tali at the bomb instead.

 

Aarghh, i did not heard this , LALALALLALLALLALLA :crying:

right os it's ashley's fault becuase you didn't put enough points into charm or intimidate, and it's her fault because you chose not to speak to her and she didn't back down like the hero worshiping dextro's.

I second LadyofRivendell they should have given us the option to leave Tali, the real racist, with the bomb that destroys saren's Geth, she would have been a hero to the quarians to go out like that.


Give your own opinions, and dont go flame flame flame other people opinions!
Did my post hurt you somehow? I think i made perfectly fine and polite post why Ashley lives or dies. And i talk with all Crew members and take time on that, more than i give time to combat , Ashley and Kaidan included.

btw, my both charm/intimidate are always maxed :) and Tali cares about Legion, she cry about it when he dies. Its different when she hates their major enemy but then learn to like them after she thinks about it from their point of view etc... 

Please dont reply, because im not here to fight you.

Modifié par Shajar, 19 avril 2012 - 10:24 .


#62
SilentK

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Please let's just stay calm everyone =)

Haven't got a single FemShep with Ash so far, simply because of the fact that I couldn't leave Kaidan behind. But it has always been one of my big sorrows in ME. Thought that one day I would get her instead and finally see the Ash-side of ME3 but I am pretty sad to hear that she has so little interaction with FemShep.
Can't see myself replaying the entire series at the moment, not enough free time for everything. But I don't know how well I'll get to know her if I start a fresh new FemShep in ME3.

Have heard that she has a good romance, but I don't know how good her friend-path is for FemShep. Hmm...

#63
CptData

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SilentK wrote...


Please let's just stay calm everyone =)

Haven't got a single FemShep with Ash so far, simply because of the fact that I couldn't leave Kaidan behind. But it has always been one of my big sorrows in ME. Thought that one day I would get her instead and finally see the Ash-side of ME3 but I am pretty sad to hear that she has so little interaction with FemShep.
Can't see myself replaying the entire series at the moment, not enough free time for everything. But I don't know how well I'll get to know her if I start a fresh new FemShep in ME3.

Have heard that she has a good romance, but I don't know how good her friend-path is for FemShep. Hmm...


Friendship-path in ME1 is good.
However, Fem!shep lacks a human male love interest in ME3 if you sacrifice Kaidan for Ash. So unless you want a "forever-alone fem!Shep" (in case you're not into Garrus), you better stay with Kaidan, he's a better option in ME3. ME3!Ash has no real friendship arc. That's OOC since Ash always remembered me as a "best friend" that becomes more (male!Shep) or best friend and sister in arms for fem!Shep.

#64
SilentK

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CptData wrote...

Friendship-path in ME1 is good.
However, Fem!shep lacks a human male love interest in ME3 if you sacrifice Kaidan for Ash. So unless you want a "forever-alone fem!Shep" (in case you're not into Garrus), you better stay with Kaidan, he's a better option in ME3. ME3!Ash has no real friendship arc. That's OOC since Ash always remembered me as a "best friend" that becomes more (male!Shep) or best friend and sister in arms for fem!Shep.


That is so sad! What happened? At the moment I haven't got a FemShep for Garrus, and I have to get that second man in the galaxy so I figured it would be perfect to get to know Ash then. I think I'll do it anyways, guess I'll just swing by the Ash-thread and see what I'm missing as far as getting to know her better stuff.

Hmm... did some of her convo's go missing or something? At least the romance-arc is good from what I have heard   =)

#65
CptData

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SilentK wrote...

That is so sad! What happened? At the moment I haven't got a FemShep for Garrus, and I have to get that second man in the galaxy so I figured it would be perfect to get to know Ash then. I think I'll do it anyways, guess I'll just swing by the Ash-thread and see what I'm missing as far as getting to know her better stuff.

Hmm... did some of her convo's go missing or something? At least the romance-arc is good from what I have heard   =)


The romance itself is fine. But as I said: Ashley's romance also contained a lot of friendship stuff too. Basically, the  Ash of ME1 felt like a comrade, a close friend and a lover at the same time. In ME3, she feels only like a lover, slightly like a comrade but no longer like a friend.

Means to me: the romance feels incomplete. Compare with Garrus or Liara and you might get the idea why that's my image of Ashley's romance. The scenes themselves are well done.

#66
CrazyGreggy

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You can slap the racist out of Ashley, but you can't slap the whiny out of Kaidan.

Also - Sarah Williams alone at the memorial wall without big sis to comfort her? To hell with that.

#67
Rudy Lis

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What's so "whiny" on Kaidan?

#68
CrazyGreggy

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Rudy Lis wrote...

What's so "whiny" on Kaidan?


Every conversation with him is a "woe is me" conversation, mainly about his troubled past and he might be the result of an experiment. Elevator conversations about his headaches, whining about Rhana and Brain Camp.

His dinner date with Shepard if you've not locked in another LI by that point is a case in point. Ash has a quad, Kaidan's a boy with an empty marble pouch.

#69
Rudy Lis

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CrazyGreggy wrote...

Every conversation with him is a "woe is me" conversation, mainly about his troubled past and he might be the result of an experiment. Elevator conversations about his headaches, whining about Rhana and Brain Camp.

His dinner date with Shepard if you've not locked in another LI by that point is a case in point. Ash has a quad, Kaidan's a boy with an empty marble pouch.


Well, I guess we just use different scale of appraisal then. He didn't left that impression on me. 
Moreover, I you don't want to listen about his past - why you keep asking? IIRC there is no experience, no codex entries - if you not interested in character, why participate in discussion, especially since they are not enforced? Same for elevators - there are few, if any situations where you have to travel with him and travel via elevators, not fast-travel. 
Regardless, since I have no issues with him and I took him as teammate quite often, I do not remember any "his issues related" conversations in elevators. About possible side-effects of L2 with Garrus or about Biotic power growth "after Eden prime" - yes, but that's all.
And, regarding ME3, IIRC it is possible to miss "dinner" meetings with LI candidate totally. I do remember my buddy's ranting about him missing meeting with Liara and thus "forever alone" achievement.

#70
Druzgot

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I used to really love her character in ME1, unfortunetlly in ME3 BioWare thought that giving us a pure romance without anythink else is good option. In ME3 i just didnt feel for what reason i am with her.

#71
CrazyGreggy

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Rudy Lis wrote...

Well, I guess we just use different scale of appraisal then. He didn't left that impression on me. 
Moreover, I you don't want to listen about his past - why you keep asking? IIRC there is no experience, no codex entries - if you not interested in character, why participate in discussion, especially since they are not enforced? Same for elevators - there are few, if any situations where you have to travel with him and travel via elevators, not fast-travel. 
Regardless, since I have no issues with him and I took him as teammate quite often, I do not remember any "his issues related" conversations in elevators. About possible side-effects of L2 with Garrus or about Biotic power growth "after Eden prime" - yes, but that's all.
And, regarding ME3, IIRC it is possible to miss "dinner" meetings with LI candidate totally. I do remember my buddy's ranting about him missing meeting with Liara and thus "forever alone" achievement.


Only did a playthrough with him to unlock Reave in ME3. And although you can avoid his convos, I prefer to play each Shepard, male or female, as a unique character that will talk to the other officers as if each time is the first time, because for that Cdr Shepard, it is. There are enough lift rides with him while he/Ash are the only squaddies to form that impression. Also ME1 Sentinel is useless :innocent:

#72
Rudy Lis

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CrazyGreggy wrote...

Only did a playthrough with him to unlock Reave in ME3.

 

Oh, I don't know, I use only AP from Garrus.


CrazyGreggy wrote...

And although you can avoid his convos, I prefer to play each Shepard, male or female, as a unique character that will talk to the other officers as if each time is the first time, because for that Cdr Shepard, it is.

 

Commendable attitude. Honestly.
I use same approach. But somehow he doesn't irritate me. Damn, even Allers didn't. Image IPB And I can't say I'm avatar of tranquility, quite the contrary.


CrazyGreggy wrote...

There are enough lift rides with him while he/Ash are the only squaddies to form that impression.

 

Unless you specifically enjoy lift rides, there are few of those. And half of them are filled with ad or news. Or game just feels I have no issues with Kaidan and don't rub me wrong way. Image IPB


CrazyGreggy wrote...

Also ME1 Sentinel is useless :innocent:


Disagree on that, he is very valuable companion for my Shepards. Yes, I played ME1 enough times to test all team-mates combos, but still, he is very useful. For me.

#73
LadyofRivendell

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Ferretinabun wrote...

The trouble with both Ashley and Kaidan is their entire personality has to be expressed before Virmire. From Virmire onwards, they share the same dialogues and plot arcs. They are, essentially, the same character. Which is a shame. I would have loved to have seen Ashley's and Kaidan's fates pan out slightly differently, if only in minor ways (such as a significantly different script for each) to suit their personalities.


I was actually surprised to see how differently Kaidan and Ashley were handled in ME3. They have different lines, cutscenes, cutscene timing, dialogue, personalities, aside from sharing the Coup plotline they ARE essentially different characters. 

That being said, if Ashley really was handled as OOC in ME3 as people say she was, I'm almost a little glad that she's not alive in my games. She felt like a BFF in ME1, and I liked it that way. It's unfortunate that she doesn't have a well fleshed out friendship path, supposedly...

And I don't recall a single conversation where Kaidan whined. At all. Every single conversation and piece of dialogue is initiated by another character, and he'll never even mention his headaches unless someone else brings up the subject first. 

#74
Jake Boone

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CrazyGreggy wrote...

Rudy Lis wrote...

What's so "whiny" on Kaidan?


Every conversation with him is a "woe is me" conversation, mainly about his troubled past and he might be the result of an experiment. Elevator conversations about his headaches, whining about Rhana and Brain Camp.

His dinner date with Shepard if you've not locked in another LI by that point is a case in point. Ash has a quad, Kaidan's a boy with an empty marble pouch.

It doesn't help Kaidan that he sounds exactly like Carth Onasi(same VA after all), who is the BIGGEST whiner in videogame history. 

#75
CptData

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Jake Boone wrote...

CrazyGreggy wrote...

Rudy Lis wrote...

What's so "whiny" on Kaidan?


Every conversation with him is a "woe is me" conversation, mainly about his troubled past and he might be the result of an experiment. Elevator conversations about his headaches, whining about Rhana and Brain Camp.

His dinner date with Shepard if you've not locked in another LI by that point is a case in point. Ash has a quad, Kaidan's a boy with an empty marble pouch.

It doesn't help Kaidan that he sounds exactly like Carth Onasi(same VA after all), who is the BIGGEST whiner in videogame history. 


Aww man, keep it civil, huh? No Kaidan bashing here, even if this topic is about the other VS. You know, Ash-fans and Kaidan-fans are pretty much united - and I definitely want to keep it this way.

No Kaidan-bashing here. Thanks. :police:




LadyofRivendell wrote...

I was actually surprised to see how differently Kaidan and Ashley were handled in ME3. They have different lines, cutscenes, cutscene timing, dialogue, personalities, aside from sharing the Coup plotline they ARE essentially different characters.

Definitely. Actually, BW showed some great skill here: how to use two different characters in the same role without making them feeling the same?
It's an achievement, and a good one.
However, the result is less that satisfying.

That being said, if Ashley really was handled as OOC in ME3 as people say she was, I'm almost a little glad that she's not alive in my games. She felt like a BFF in ME1, and I liked it that way. It's unfortunate that she doesn't have a well fleshed out friendship path, supposedly...

She doesn't feel like a BFF in ME3. Not for m!Shep and not for f!Shep. As soon as she's back on the Normandy, Ash goes into silent mode and never interacts with anyone on the ship, not even Shepard. She doesn't come to your cabin (like Allers, Traynor, Vega, Liara) if not romanced, doesn't comfort you after Thessia - and so on,
In short: Ashley doesn't feel like Ashley outside her romance: she's not a friend anymore. And that's something I really hate since I always imagined Ash as comrade, friend AND lover.

And I don't recall a single conversation where Kaidan whined. At all. Every single conversation and piece of dialogue is initiated by another character, and he'll never even mention his headaches unless someone else brings up the subject first. 


Dito. He just expressed his feelings a bit more than the usual guy. Maybe that's why a lot of ppl demanded Kaidan as a bi LI - he felt a bit like that in ME1. Never saw this as something negative - his character was a bit more formal than Ash in the first game, but definitely worth to have around.

Modifié par CptData, 20 avril 2012 - 08:43 .