210 réponses à ce sujet

[Tovanus]

I think choice not mattering was just the easiest thing for disappointed fans to explain to people not willing to sit through something like one of those thirty minute Youtube videos explaining how the ending went so wrong. If there had only been one ending (leaving aside jokes about there only being one ending, just with different colors), but the ending had made perfect sense with the lore of the game and not utilized a crummy plot device (the Starchild), I think the complaints and anger would have been far less. The idea that the end to the Reaper threat might involve a single action with a single consequence was not anathema to fans. There didn't need to be a FINAL DECISION in the game with multiple outcomes. Some fan edits of the ending just cut out the entire Starchild sequence and skip from Anderson and Shepard dying together to the Crucible firing a red beam, and people react more positively to THAT than what was given.

That's not to say fans didn't still want closure and something shown about how their past decisions across the three games worked out, but if closure was the the biggest complaint, I think you would have seen mountains of praise well up for the extended ending DLC announcement. Instead, the reaction you saw throughout the forums for a long time (until most people got tired and left) was, "They didn't listen to us," because the ending wasn't being changed.

Lack of narrative coherence I think is the biggest complaint (though a lot of people point to a lot of different things that go into that complaint, it's the best single term I've heard that catches most complaints). Lack of epilogue will be addressed, but people seem to be generally disappointed at Bioware's decision to only expand on the terrible endings.

[leapingmonkeys]

XTR3M3 wrote...

That is where I think the real story to this whole saga lies. The
loudest complaint relating to the endings is: "My choices didn't
matter."

QFT

this was the part that was a big issue for me.

Exactly - the current ending is neither "good" nor "bad".  The problem is that ME3 had a singular ending.  ME1/ME2 worked very hard to create diversity in the customer base by giving players choices (both paragon/renegade as well as the plot choices - rachni, genophage cure, geth heretics, etc) and then having those choices cause a visible, in-game, effect.

The failure of ME3 is that the is failed to acknowledge and embrace that diversity.  It imposed a singular, nihilistic esthetic on the game irrespective of how the player had played.

ME3 needed to have multiple plot lines that lead to multiple, distinct conclusions.  One's past actions/decisions should have determined which plot lines were available.  The conclusion on each plot line needed to be thematically harmonious with the choices that enabled that conclusion.

So yes, have a nihilistic ending.  But also have a victory at great cost ending and a victory with no-man-left-behind ending.  Really they only needed about 3 or maybe 4 thematic endings to have covered the wants/expectations/play-styles of about 90% of the customer base.  That could have easily been done.

Instead they sucumbed to a one-ending-to-rule-them-all mindset, and so they failed because they failed to understand what ME1/ME2 had created.

Modifié par leapingmonkeys, 17 avril 2012 - 11:10 .

[Link Ashland 614]

So the rage will never end.

[Akeotwawki]

Hey, it's okay to like the ending! Think it's great to pay 60$ or more and be happy with what you bought.

It's also pretty obvious to the world right now, that a majority (vocal/silent) didn't like the endings. I loved the game, right up until the end.

[Exeider]

LadyWench wrote...

"The day before the release of Mass Effect 3, BioWare leaked the endings to its fans and polled them to gauge their reaction. Ninety percent of users said "the endings suck." That's a pretty unambiguous statement."

What!? Well, that goes against the whole 'we had no idea people would react this way' faux shock over the outrage that BW has supposedly suffered since the game dropped and general public got to the end. 

...And your surprised that yet another lie comes out of the wood work.

I think people pretty much had it figured out when the endings hit, that it seemed to be the work of someone who wasn't involved with the rest of the game, at least story line wise.

Yeah, Casey, endings, espeically highly anticipated endings to trilogies, you need a team.

-AE

[Aaleel]

LadyWench wrote...

GiarcYekrub wrote...

I like the ending so do my friends that play it, only seen people on the internet hate it. i suspect half of those just watched it on youtube out of context. also i havent seen a consistent complaint about it just alot of individuals with there own ending

Obviously haven't watched THIS. This is pretty much the definitive video on why people who dislike the ending do so.

Just when I thought the ending couldn't make any less sense I watch this.  It would have been laughable if it wasn't so sad. 

Actually I did laugh at all the *shrug* 

As far as people who liked the ending I don't know any.  Every poll I've seen on any site is 85-90% hated it.  Even the one IGN did on their facebook page was a whitewash.

[Link Ashland 614]

I can undestand the dislike, but why the hate and rage? What's the point of going everywhere saying you hate it, plotholes, it sucks. What's the whole point of that?

[STEEEEVE]

GiarcYekrub wrote...

I like the ending so do my friends that play it, only seen people on the internet hate it. i suspect half of those just watched it on youtube out of context. also i havent seen a consistent complaint about it just alot of individuals with there own ending

You're either a troll or an idiot surrounded by other idiots.  I'm hoping you're a troll.

[Link Ashland 614]

STEEEEVE wrote...

GiarcYekrub wrote...

I like the ending so do my friends that play it, only seen people on the internet hate it. i suspect half of those just watched it on youtube out of context. also i havent seen a consistent complaint about it just alot of individuals with there own ending

You're either a troll or an idiot surrounded by other idiots.  I'm hoping you're a troll.

So he's an idiot for liking something?

[TonViper]

leapingmonkeys wrote...

XTR3M3 wrote...

That is where I think the real story to this whole saga lies. The
loudest complaint relating to the endings is: "My choices didn't
matter."

QFT

this was the part that was a big issue for me.

Exactly - the current ending is neither "good" nor "bad".  The problem is that ME3 had a singular ending.  ME1/ME2 worked very hard to create diversity in the customer base by giving players choices (both paragon/renegade as well as the plot choices - rachni, genophage cure, geth heretics, etc) and then having those choices cause a visible, in-game, effect.

The failure of ME3 is that the is failed to acknowledge and embrace that diversity.  It imposed a singular, nihilistic esthetic on the game irrespective of how the player had played.

ME3 needed to have multiple plot lines that lead to multiple, distinct conclusions.  One's past actions/decisions should have determined which plot lines were available.  The conclusion on each plot line needed to be thematically harmonious with the choices that enabled that conclusion.

So yes, have a nihilistic ending.  But also have a victory at great cost ending and a victory with no-man-left-behind ending.  Really they only needed about 3 or maybe 4 thematic endings to have covered the wants/expectations/play-styles of about 90% of the customer base.  That could have easily been done.

Instead they sucumbed to a one-ending-to-rule-them-all mindset, and so they failed because they failed to understand what ME1/ME2 had created.

I think another thing about this is that ever since we first played ME1, we've been told that our decisions carry over to the next games, and then later on we were told that since ME3 was to be the end of Shepard's story, they had the freedom to end the game in wildly different ways, since they didn't have to carry it over to a later game.

Most of us, I think, interpreted this to mean that ME3 could end in many different ways, and so we played the first two games imagining all the ways our decisions might affect the end of the third. Now we've played the third and found that all of our efforts, all of the various choices we've made along the way has led us on different journeys to the same three half-assed, non interactive endings.

If Bioware had realized this when they developed ME3, they'd have known that what they ended up producing just wasn't acceptable to most of their fanbase.

I want the happy end. I want the near total defeat, leaving only the hope of the next cycle. I want to team up with Cerberus and The Illusive Man to control the reapers for the good of humanity over all others. I want to wage war on Cerberus and stop their plans for the good of all sentient races, biological and technological.

Most of all, I want choice. Sure, the journey matters, but if it all leads to the same destination, what's the point of making the journey more than once?

Modifié par TonViper, 17 avril 2012 - 11:31 .

[devSin]

BioWare never leaked the ending (unless the stupid Space Edition counts; what a dumb idea that was), and they've never conducted a poll on how the ending is received.

What are these people smoking?

[matthewmi]

They didn't expect the outcry, do you think they thought "gee I hope many of our fans hate the ending, that will really help us out as a company." They probably expected a much more balanced result from their own internal polling of focus groups and testers. The end is weak but not so bad as to "ruin" the series, I love the game it's a great experience. I'm sure though Bioware wishes they'd made a few different choices at the end hopefully the dlc helps satisfy a larger proportion of the fan base.

Modifié par matthewmi, 17 avril 2012 - 11:33 .

[Akeotwawki]

devSin wrote...

BioWare never leaked the ending (unless the stupid Space Edition counts; what a dumb idea that was), and they've never conducted a poll on how the ending is received.

What are these people smoking?

They didn't 'leak' the ending. It's SOP for companies to use focus groups and select player feedback. That's why the whole 'artistic vision' thing is bogus. Game/books/movies are changed all the time based on feedback. I was involved with one for a Whoopie Goldberg movie, and they changed it based on the audience reaction before release.

[dbt-kenny]

MMMM yes what leaked ending and where was it. it might of been with some closed beat thing. but 90% is still a lot.

Hold the line

[Ultra Prism]

Haha If I only knew before ... then I could have prepare for the worst ... but I took BRUNT of the force IN THE ENDINGS ... as per my reports

[Akeotwawki]

I'll never pre-order again, that's for sure. And as for trilogies? I'll wait until the last one comes out before I let myself get invested again. I don't know what suit(s) made the decision to mess with a SURE THING, but I hope they get transferred to another department.

[LadyWench]

Exeider wrote...

LadyWench wrote...

"The day before the release of Mass Effect 3, BioWare leaked the endings to its fans and polled them to gauge their reaction. Ninety percent of users said "the endings suck." That's a pretty unambiguous statement."

What!? Well, that goes against the whole 'we had no idea people would react this way' faux shock over the outrage that BW has supposedly suffered since the game dropped and general public got to the end. 

...And your surprised that yet another lie comes out of the wood work.

I think people pretty much had it figured out when the endings hit, that it seemed to be the work of someone who wasn't involved with the rest of the game, at least story line wise.

Yeah, Casey, endings, espeically highly anticipated endings to trilogies, you need a team.

-AE

No, not surprised anymore. Just sad. Like a crappy relationship I keep going back to, hoping this time it will be different, only to be lied to again. *sigh*

Also, +1 for video.

[xsdob]

So from the fringe element here saying that the endings suck you take it as being the entire fandom saying the endings suck? That's just stupid.

That's like me polling a clan rally to try and find out how many americans approve of obama, not a very fair poll given where it's coming from.

These forums do not represent the majority of the fanbase, they show what the die hard fans think about it, the minority, the majority are the fans who don't come here, and don't post at gamer sites, and simply play these games as something to be enjoyed. And no one has yet to try and poll them, at all.

So you can argue over who gets the the majority in the minority, but I think it's really just a fools errand to do so. Just say why you think bioware sucks and move on, leave math and facts out of it or your just going to end up looking like a raging fool.

[Bill Casey]

1. The Master Control Reaper is providing the exposition
2. The three choices don't solve the problem he has presented
3. Trying to control all of the Reapers literally a minute after you shot Anderson against your will is a phenomenally stupid option, Rewarding it is rewarding stupidity.
4. Synthesis is an assertion and affirmation that organics and synthetics cannot find a way to coexist peacefully without rewriting the universe with a god gun. It glorifies homogeneity and forced eugenics.
5. The only option left to assert organics and synthetics can coexist peacefully includes the genocide of synthetics

[warrior256]

But... But they just don't understand the intelligence behind the ending! The circular logic and contradiction to previous parts of the game has a DEEP meaning!!!

[Akeotwawki]

...

I think another thing about this is that ever since we first played ME1, we've been told that our decisions carry over to the next games, and then later on we were told that since ME3 was to be the end of Shepard's story, they had the freedom to end the game in wildly different ways, since they didn't have to carry it over to a later game.

The Better Business Bureau weighed in on this and said, basically, that Bioware lied.


"Mass Effect 3 is Having a 'Mass Effect' on its Consumers for Better or Worse"

" What caused all of this hype had to do with the marketing of this product.  Here are some examples below from their website, http://masseffect.com:

•  “Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome”.
• “Along the way, your choices drive powerful outcomes, including relationships with key characters, the fate of entire civilizations, and even radically different ending scenarios.”

....
The issue at stake here is, did Bio Ware falsely advertise?  Technically, yes, they did.  In the first bullet point, where it states “the decisions you make completely shape your experience”, there is no indecision in that statement.  It is an absolute.  The next statement is not so absolute.  It states “your choices drive powerful outcomes”.  A consumer would have to very carefully analyze this statement to come to a conclusion that the game’s outcome is not
“wholly” determined by one’s choices.  This statement, really though, is very subject to interpretation.  Also this is just a small example of their advertising and does not take into account anything that might have been said, as far as their public relations and other advertising campaigns."
[*]
[*]
http://www.bbb.org/b...etter-or-worse/

Modifié par Akeotwawki, 17 avril 2012 - 11:56 .

[BouncyCaitian]

warrior256 wrote...

But... But they just don't understand the intelligence behind the ending! The circular logic and contradiction to previous parts of the game has a DEEP meaning!!!

you forgot the Trademark

[Akeotwawki]

xsdob wrote...

So from the fringe element here saying that the endings suck you take it as being the entire fandom saying the endings suck? That's just stupid.

You have a point that the 'entire fandom' isn't saying it sucks. However calling us a 'fringe element' has pretty much been disproved, What do you call the people Bioware polled - of which 90% said the ending blows?

[Dridengx]

Akeotwawki wrote...

Well, finally, an end to the lie that a vocal 'minority' are unhappy with the ending(s).

How many people were in this poll again? how many users are registered on BSN? How many people purchased ME3? majority you say? lulz you can't put an end to anything without proof, proof you simply do not have

[Swisspease]

xsdob wrote...

So from the fringe element here saying that the endings suck you take it as being the entire fandom saying the endings suck? That's just stupid.

That's like me polling a clan rally to try and find out how many americans approve of obama, not a very fair poll given where it's coming from.

These forums do not represent the majority of the fanbase, they show what the die hard fans think about it, the minority, the majority are the fans who don't come here, and don't post at gamer sites, and simply play these games as something to be enjoyed. And no one has yet to try and poll them, at all.

So you can argue over who gets the the majority in the minority, but I think it's really just a fools errand to do so. Just say why you think bioware sucks and move on, leave math and facts out of it or your just going to end up looking like a raging fool.

So you didn't read the article, did you? You just read the thread title.